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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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snommisbor
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Reged: 06/15/09

Loc: Cedar Park, TX
You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake?
      #5518705 - 11/13/12 09:09 PM

I just went to the Reflector forum thinking I was in the Refractor forum and I'm thinking, "Man, there are a lot of new post I didnt see an hour ago." And then I started reading a new post and after a few lines I was thinking, "What am I reading?" Looked up and saw I had accidentally gone into the Reflector Forum. Thought that was funny and just wonder if anyone else had done that and how long did it take to realize. I'm in the wrong place.

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FaronD
sage


Reged: 03/25/10

Loc: Richmond Hill, Ontario
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: snommisbor]
      #5518711 - 11/13/12 09:15 PM

I stumbled in there a couple of times. I whistled and snuck out real fast.

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Jim Romanski
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Reged: 01/02/05

Loc: Guilford, Connecticut
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: snommisbor]
      #5518811 - 11/13/12 10:22 PM

It's really weird there. They talk about seeing Stephan's Quintet and the Horsehead Nebula.

Like anybody can really see that stuff.


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Erskin71
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/13/10

Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jim Romanski]
      #5518846 - 11/13/12 10:42 PM

Yes. I exited my browser as if staying there a split second longer would have caused a blue screen of death.

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GOLGO13
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Reged: 11/05/05

Loc: St. Louis area
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: snommisbor]
      #5518881 - 11/13/12 11:09 PM

yep...you can tell by the difference in size and price. What you would see here (what's the best 90mm refractor I can get under $2000) it's (what's the best 254mm I can get under $1000).

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: snommisbor]
      #5518947 - 11/14/12 12:16 AM

Isn't that a bit like not paying attention and walking into the ladies' room by mistake?



- Jim


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Jon Isaacs
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Reged: 06/16/04

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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5519164 - 11/14/12 08:21 AM

Quote:

Isn't that a bit like not paying attention and walking into the ladies' room by mistake?



- Jim




Well...

Close but not quite. It's like going into the Boy's room instead of the Men's room...

Jon


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Sean Cunneen
Let Me Think
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Reged: 08/01/07

Loc: Blue Island Illinois
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5519196 - 11/14/12 08:49 AM

You know because there is a lot of information, but everything is kinda fuzzy.

Oh yeah, and you have to use a ladder to see anything good.


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Shawn H
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5519204 - 11/14/12 08:52 AM

Quote:

Isn't that a bit like not paying attention and walking into the ladies' room by mistake?



- Jim




By mistake! ... yea right!


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Ed D
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Shawn H]
      #5519220 - 11/14/12 09:04 AM

I knew there was a reason why I own one reflector and one refractor.

Ed D


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FirstSightModerator
Duke of Deneb
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Reged: 12/26/05

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Ed D]
      #5519240 - 11/14/12 09:23 AM

Quote:

I knew there was a reason why I own one reflector and one refractor.

Ed D




I suspect those of us who are happy members of both tribes enjoy the best of both worlds. 'Tis the ideal setup IMHO. However, in my case I do own two refractors and one reflector.


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tomcody
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Reged: 07/06/08

Loc: Titusville, Florida
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: snommisbor]
      #5519248 - 11/14/12 09:35 AM

By mistake? NO.. but I have gone there to escape the numerous "whats the best refractor for under $XX.." threads that keep coming up.
Rex

Edited by tomcody (11/14/12 09:36 AM)


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hottr6
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Reged: 06/28/09

Loc: 7,500', Magdalena Mtns, NM
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jim Romanski]
      #5519266 - 11/14/12 09:47 AM

Quote:

It's really weird there. They talk about seeing Stephan's Quintet and the Horsehead Nebula.

Like anybody can really see that stuff.



And they even do "planetary" stuff, like mapping clouds on Uranus and looking for Pluto.

Seriously, y'all are welcome on the reflector forum. We're not against tiny 'scopes.


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FirstSightModerator
Duke of Deneb
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Reged: 12/26/05

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jim Romanski]
      #5519276 - 11/14/12 09:56 AM

Quote:

It's really weird there. They talk about seeing Stephan's Quintet and the Horsehead Nebula.

Like anybody can really see that stuff.




Sure you can! With a good refractor and $10k worth of mount and imaging gear.
or
with a 12+ reflector, dark skies, and your own eyes.


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cloud_cover
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/17/10

Loc: Restaurant at the End of the U...
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: FirstSight]
      #5519338 - 11/14/12 10:52 AM

Nah, Horsehead's do-able with a middlin' grade CCD and a regular GEm mounting a decent refractor.
But for a lot less moolah you can go visual on the HH with a reflector.
As one of those who use both, I agree very much with Jon, who states repeatedly that they are complimentary instruments
Of course, if you have enough moolah, you can build a 36" refractor and house it with its own tracking mount and observatory, which will surely knock the socks off a 36" reflector!


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snommisbor
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Reged: 06/15/09

Loc: Cedar Park, TX
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: cloud_cover]
      #5519394 - 11/14/12 11:25 AM

Some funny posts. I liken it to if you order unsweet tea and they bring you sweet tea and you take a big drink and it takes a few seconds to sink in you are not drinking what you thought. The way I have been a few times when I went into the Reflector forum. I still one day might go to the rebel side but for now I like it on the dark side.

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Lane
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Reged: 11/19/07

Loc: Frisco, Texas
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: snommisbor]
      #5519642 - 11/14/12 02:55 PM

The ultimate insult is to find the refractor that you love dearly being used as a finder scope on some guys 24" Newt.

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Doug Culbertson
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Reged: 01/06/05

Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Lane]
      #5519706 - 11/14/12 03:28 PM

Even worse is finding your 15" dob being used as a finderscope on someone's 30".

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crow
sage


Reged: 07/09/12

Loc: BC, Canada
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: hottr6]
      #5519717 - 11/14/12 03:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

It's really weird there. They talk about seeing Stephan's Quintet and the Horsehead Nebula.

Like anybody can really see that stuff.



And they even do "planetary" stuff, like mapping clouds on Uranus and looking for Pluto.

Seriously, y'all are welcome on the reflector forum. We're not against tiny 'scopes.




Good one. Kind of amusing visiting the refractor forum. Your always telling yourselves how much you like and even love your scopes. Feels like an inferiority thing to me

That said I've just ordered a TEC140.

Edited by crow (11/14/12 03:38 PM)


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GOLGO13
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/05/05

Loc: St. Louis area
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Lane]
      #5519718 - 11/14/12 03:35 PM

Quote:

The ultimate insult is to find the refractor that you love dearly being used as a finder scope on some guys 24" Newt.




You mean like this 6 inch refractor finder on a 30 inch dob (with my 80mm in the background )



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Kiwi Nick
sage


Reged: 09/17/05

Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: GOLGO13]
      #5519756 - 11/14/12 04:08 PM

Hahahhaha excellent post Golgo.
Compared to monster reflectors, even the most lovely 6 inch refractor is but a toy. A nice toy for sure but still a pea stick compared to those scary monster reflectors.


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Mark Costello
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Reged: 03/08/05

Loc: Matthews, NC, USA
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Doug Culbertson]
      #5519825 - 11/14/12 05:16 PM

I wonder what he does when his Dob is pointed almost straight up?

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: snommisbor]
      #5519831 - 11/14/12 05:20 PM

"I liken it to if you order unsweet tea and they bring you sweet tea and you take a big drink and it takes a few seconds to sink in you are not drinking what you thought."

That's just the taste of "aperture is king" flavored kool-aid.



- Jim


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Sky Captain
Metal Whisperer
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Reged: 11/07/04

Loc: Loc: Loc:
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5520324 - 11/14/12 11:14 PM

No, but it looks as if I came here by mistake...

Better get back to the forum...


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stevew
Now I've done it


Reged: 03/03/06

Loc: British Columbia Canada
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Sky Captain]
      #5520352 - 11/14/12 11:36 PM

I wandered over there once, but they weren't talking about telescopes, just some sort of arachnid.

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snommisbor
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Reged: 06/15/09

Loc: Cedar Park, TX
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Sky Captain]
      #5520374 - 11/14/12 11:58 PM

Quote:

No, but it looks as if I came here by mistake...

Better get back to the forum...




Well played.


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chboss
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/24/08

Loc: Zurich Switzerland
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: snommisbor]
      #5520448 - 11/15/12 01:17 AM

LOL this thread should be made sticky!

regards
Chris


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hottr6
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/28/09

Loc: 7,500', Magdalena Mtns, NM
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: stevew]
      #5520736 - 11/15/12 08:31 AM

Quote:

I wandered over there once, but they weren't talking about telescopes, just some sort of arachnid.





If y'all really want to get lost in a jargon-filled forum, visit the APers!


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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
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Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: hottr6]
      #5520755 - 11/15/12 08:53 AM

I just goto the Reflector section to see what NGC891 looks like from a light polluted backyard.

David


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Andy Taylor
Twisted, but in a Good Way
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Reged: 09/24/08

Loc: Epsom - UK
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5521174 - 11/15/12 12:49 PM

Ever visited the eyepiece forum? - nutters!

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saemark30
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/21/12

Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Andy Taylor]
      #5521204 - 11/15/12 01:12 PM

You didn't also go into the CATs and Cass. did ya?
At least with Newts you can get great optics, SCT's now that's wishful thinking!


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Bill Cowles
MacGyver
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Reged: 04/16/06

Loc: Utah
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: snommisbor]
      #5521394 - 11/15/12 03:06 PM

Too many times.

Bill


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Andy Taylor
Twisted, but in a Good Way
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Reged: 09/24/08

Loc: Epsom - UK
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: saemark30]
      #5521537 - 11/15/12 04:33 PM

Quote:

You didn't also go into the CATs and Cass. did ya?
At least with Newts you can get great optics, SCT's now that's wishful thinking!




Sorry - I own two...


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Andy Taylor
Twisted, but in a Good Way
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Reged: 09/24/08

Loc: Epsom - UK
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Andy Taylor]
      #5521554 - 11/15/12 04:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

You didn't also go into the CATs and Cass. did ya?
At least with Newts you can get great optics, SCT's now that's wishful thinking!




Sorry - I own two...




Well, one is a Mak - at least it's spherical...

No fruity correcter plate.


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Meadeball
sage


Reged: 10/22/12

Loc: Midlothian, Virginia
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Andy Taylor]
      #5521610 - 11/15/12 05:32 PM

Actually the two boards are very similar. Both groups spend an enormous amount of time turning knobs. With us, they're called "focusing knobs." With them, they're called "collimation screws."

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Astrojensen
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Meadeball]
      #5521622 - 11/15/12 05:42 PM

Quote:

Actually the two boards are very similar. Both groups spend an enormous amount of time turning knobs. With us, they're called "focusing knobs." With them, they're called "collimation screws."




That was true with my C8. It always seemed to drift around and it took forever to get it just right, because the design is so sensitive. My 12" dob? It takes three minutes, tops, and is very easy. The rest of the evening, the only knob touched is the one on the focuser!

But it is true that one of the strengths of the refractor is that it stays in collimation. Usually, at least.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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mikey cee
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5522112 - 11/15/12 11:23 PM

Not if I can help it!! Us refractor owners are more "sharp focused" when it comes to that. Mike

Edited by mikey cee (11/15/12 11:28 PM)


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5522322 - 11/16/12 06:35 AM

Quote:


But it is true that one of the strengths of the refractor is that it stays in collimation. Usually, at least.




The reason refractors stay in collimation is that they have to, otherwise they would be unusable. Newtonians have very lax collimation tolerances because there is only one curved surface so they can be collimated by the owner in the field in a moment are two. Refractors are touchier is this regard. Some apo's require centering of the elements to within a few microns. No one sends a Newtonian to the factory to be collimated, it happens with refractors all the time...

Jon


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RGM
scholastic sledgehammer
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Loc: Burks Falls, Ontario, Canada
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5522330 - 11/16/12 06:54 AM

I wander around CN because of my various scopes, but I consider this forum as home, followed by EPs.

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csrlice12
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Loc: Denver, CO
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5523073 - 11/16/12 03:33 PM

Quote:

Quote:


But it is true that one of the strengths of the refractor is that it stays in collimation. Usually, at least.




The reason refractors stay in collimation is that they have to, otherwise they would be unusable. Newtonians have very lax collimation tolerances because there is only one curved surface so they can be collimated by the owner in the field in a moment are two. Refractors are touchier is this regard. Some apo's require centering of the elements to within a few microns. No one sends a Newtonian to the factory to be collimated, it happens with refractors all the time...

Jon



Yes, but you can easily collimate a Dob. Collimating a refractor...good luck with that; maybe if you start now, you'll be ready by tonight....
that being said; I'm going to S&S Optica soon to purchase my Xmas Present, and Omni 102XLT; luckily it'll come collimated. Not that I wouldn't do it myself, its all part of the learning process and responsibility that comes with a scope. Just like I've never used an EQ mount; but I'll learn,of that I have no doubt. I love my 10XTi, at a dark site, I'm a happy camper. Here in town though (white zone, my front yard is boardered by skyscrapers (Denver Tech Center). I mostly want the refractor for planetary and lunar. I don't think of a reflector as any better or worse then a refractor; they're actually very complementory to each other. I propably will end up using the refractor more, just because its an hours drive to a dark site. I have no doubt I'll love both of them.


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5523380 - 11/16/12 07:49 PM

"Newtonians have very lax collimation tolerances because there is only one curved surface so they can be collimated by the owner in the field in a moment are two."

Only if you're looking at blobs (DSOs). Even slight decollimation of a Newt kills it for planetary work. Moreso the faster the Newt.

Slow doublet refractors, on the other hand suffer the least from miscollimation errors. So long as both elements are in the same backyard, that's good enough for planetary viewing.

- Jim


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Scott in NCModerator
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Loc: NC
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: RGM]
      #5523470 - 11/16/12 09:09 PM

Quote:

I wander around CN because of my various scopes, but I consider this forum as home, followed by EPs.



+1


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TileArt
member
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Reged: 09/13/12

Loc: Fort Collins, Colorado
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Scott in NC]
      #5523529 - 11/16/12 10:00 PM

I wandered in there once. Ran away when I read something about ladders. That's all I need, something else to drag out to the back yard in the middle of the night.

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Sky Muse
sage


Reged: 10/26/12

Loc: De Soto County, MS
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: TileArt]
      #5523552 - 11/16/12 10:22 PM

I thought it was the refractor forum, too, until it was too late.

I "received" fully three crates of tomatoes and a four-vane spider.

Alan


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wormstar
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/23/09

Loc: Central Ct
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Sky Muse]
      #5526489 - 11/18/12 05:08 PM

"one time at band camp...."

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cloud_cover
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/17/10

Loc: Restaurant at the End of the U...
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5527244 - 11/19/12 01:35 AM

Quote:

Quote:

No one sends a Newtonian to the factory to be collimated, it happens with refractors all the time...

Jon



Yes, but you can easily collimate a Dob. Collimating a refractor...good luck with that; maybe if you start now, you'll be ready by tonight....




Nah, my NP-101 was nicely collimated in the daytime with an artificial star within 1 hour But that was alignment between front and back elements, similar in a sort of way to collimating the primary and secondary of a Newt.
On the other hand, I agree: if the individual elements of a doublet or triplet need to be collimated, it will be difficult, at best to do-it-yourself.


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Jon Isaacs
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Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5527368 - 11/19/12 06:07 AM

Quote:

"Newtonians have very lax collimation tolerances because there is only one curved surface so they can be collimated by the owner in the field in a moment are two."

Only if you're looking at blobs (DSOs). Even slight decollimation of a Newt kills it for planetary work. Moreso the faster the Newt.

Slow doublet refractors, on the other hand suffer the least from miscollimation errors. So long as both elements are in the same backyard, that's good enough for planetary viewing.

- Jim




Ho hum...

The collimation tolerances in a Newtonian are lax by comparison with other designs. Sure a Newtonian needs to be accurately collimated but accurate collimation in a Newtonian which would provide text book images would be unacceptable in other designs.

Consider the 6 inch F/8 Newtonian versus the 6 inch F/8 refractor. The Primary tilt spec is about 4mm for the Newtonian... Imagine one of the lens elements of the refractor were off center by 4mm...

Long focus Newtonians, an F/15 Newtonian has a coma free region of 74mm... Collimation tolerances are about half that... Try that with a refractor..

One curved surface means that centering is not critical...,

Jon Isaacs


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GeneT
Ely Kid
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Reged: 11/07/08

Loc: South Texas
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jim Romanski]
      #5528584 - 11/19/12 07:02 PM

Quote:

It's really weird there. They talk about seeing Stephan's Quintet and the Horsehead Nebula. Like anybody can really see that stuff.






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GeneT
Ely Kid
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Reged: 11/07/08

Loc: South Texas
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: FaronD]
      #5528588 - 11/19/12 07:06 PM

Quote:

I stumbled in there a couple of times. I whistled and snuck out real fast.




Reflector owners are not embarrassed by discussions of size.


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csrlice12
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Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: tomcody]
      #5529771 - 11/20/12 10:30 AM

Quote:

By mistake? NO.. but I have gone there to escape the numerous "whats the best refractor for under $XX.." threads that keep coming up.
Rex




For the "Wht's the best reflector for under $XX"? Guess for either, the answer is, which one will you use??


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jrbarnett
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5529865 - 11/20/12 11:17 AM

There are no f/15 Netwtonians. There are, however, many f/15 and slower refractors. On the other hand, the trend is for fatser Newts. f/5 is now "slow" and f/3.x and f/2.x are becoming increasingly common. Thus the "average" Newtonian today is exceptionally demanding of collimation for planetary work. That not uncommon f/15 achromat, on the other hand, really isn't.

Regards,

Jim


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GOLGO13
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5530705 - 11/20/12 05:48 PM

Seems like there is a trend toward faster refractors as well. Especially on the Apo side of the market. Certianly faster scopes are a benefit to both types of scopes for usability. F15 refractors need quite a mount, and can be like using an long reflector with ladders and or contortions.

Those fast newts are common to keep people's feet on the ground with HUGE aperture. 15 inch refractors may cause some interesting mounts/setups.


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jrbarnett
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: GOLGO13]
      #5530814 - 11/20/12 06:52 PM

"F15 refractors need quite a mount, and can be like using an long reflector with ladders and or contortions."

Not so much, really. A 4" f/15 works just fine on a CG5-GT with the 16" Orion pier extension. A smaller f/15 or slower works well on pretty much any mount.

4" f/15 on a CG5 with pier:



2.4" f/16.7 on a CG5 with Orion pier extension:



The same 2.4" on an alt-az mount:



I use the same setups (pier, pier extension and alt-az) with a 76.2mm f/15 as well. Really not even remotely comparable to the ladder hassles with a big f/5 Dob.

Regards,

Jim


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5530830 - 11/20/12 06:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

"F15 refractors need quite a mount, and can be like using an long reflector with ladders and or contortions."




Not so much, really. A 4" f/15 works just fine on a CG5-GT with the 16" Orion pier extension. A smaller f/15 or slower works well on pretty much any mount.

4" f/15 on a CG5 with pier:







The photo pretty much proves the point that a 4 inch F/15 requires a substantial mount and may require contortions and a stool. Just how high is the eyepiece when viewing the horizon? To my eye, it is not quite as nimble as an NP-101 or Traveler on a Portamount.

Jon


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GOLGO13
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5531013 - 11/20/12 08:47 PM

That was still a substantial mount for a 4 inch scope. Look how it gets for a 6 inch F15.



This 6 inch F10 reflector doesn't look so bad...not too different a situation.



I think we should be comparing scopes of similar aperture with at least a semi-close F-ratio.


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Deep13
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: GOLGO13]
      #5531024 - 11/20/12 08:52 PM

No, on purpose.

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David E
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: snommisbor]
      #5544356 - 11/28/12 06:31 PM

Quote:

I just went to the Reflector forum thinking I was in the Refractor forum and I'm thinking, "Man, there are a lot of new post I didnt see an hour ago." And then I started reading a new post and after a few lines I was thinking, "What am I reading?" Looked up and saw I had accidentally gone into the Reflector Forum. Thought that was funny and just wonder if anyone else had done that and how long did it take to realize. I'm in the wrong place.




Yeah, I've done that before. Started reading about collimation and coma and I'm like, what are they talking about? They really should separate those two forums on opposite sides of the web page.


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csrlice12
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: David E]
      #5545123 - 11/29/12 08:59 AM

Just remember, they come over here looking for finderscopes.......

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sg6
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5545142 - 11/29/12 09:13 AM

Who cares about a 10" reflector?


Link

Translation manages to still say Mirror when it is a Lens.

Edited by sg6 (11/29/12 09:14 AM)


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orion61

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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: sg6]
      #5545194 - 11/29/12 09:51 AM

I don't know I just went through there where they are talking about actually useing their equipment, not just looking at it in the daytime and cutting down other people.
enjoy your daytime hobby.
Gee I wonder why Hubble is a reflector? even with its optical flaws, I wonder why they didn't put a refractor up there?

Edited by orion61 (11/29/12 09:56 AM)


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5545306 - 11/29/12 10:51 AM

Quote:

Just remember, they come over here looking for finderscopes.......




Only if "they" are looking for a modest sized finder scope.

A good sized finder scope

Jon


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snommisbor
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5545372 - 11/29/12 11:35 AM

Zowie!!! You need a cherry picker to observe with that. I bet that pulls in some detail.

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Jon Isaacs
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: snommisbor]
      #5545383 - 11/29/12 11:44 AM

Quote:

Zowie!!! You need a cherry picker to observe with that. I bet that pulls in some detail.




The 12.5 inch Finder is probably no slouch either..

Jon


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csrlice12
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5545433 - 11/29/12 12:10 PM

You know, it is possible the big dob is the finder for the little one...........might have a wider FOV.....

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Jon Isaacs
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5545449 - 11/29/12 12:23 PM

Quote:

You know, it is possible the big dob is the finder for the little one...........might have a wider FOV.....




Not really... The relative lengths of the tubes tell the story as far as TFoV goes...

Jon


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saemark30
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5545557 - 11/29/12 01:37 PM

No but staying here can be an expen$$$ive mistake.

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Mark Costello
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5545589 - 11/29/12 01:55 PM

True, but IMHO it belongs on its own mount. It looks to me like using it in its current position to find things for the main scope would be an ergonomic nightmare. A finder would be better off near the eyepiece IMHO. Also, the finder there probably has a focal length of a whopping 1500 millimeters. That would limit its use as a finder. Why not a 4.25" or 6" Starblast tube near the eyepiece....

Edited by Mark Costello (11/30/12 09:31 AM)


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galexand
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5546174 - 11/29/12 08:17 PM

Okay now that I've gotten over my vertigo looking at that picture..that looks like a regular dob, right? So you've gotta stand at the bottom, line it up within the tiny view of the 12.5", and then run up the ladder and hope you can still find it in the 40"? I guess you could always have a buddy on the ground operating the finder scope for you.

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Jon Isaacs
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Mark Costello]
      #5546686 - 11/30/12 05:54 AM

Quote:

True, but IMHO it belongs on its own mount. It looks to me like using it in its current position to find things for the main scope would be an ergonomic nightmare. A finder would be better off near the eyepiece IMHO. Also, the finder there probably has a focal length of a whopping 1500 meters. That would limit its use as a finder. Why not a 4.25" or 6" Starblast tube near the eyepiece....




Mark:

This is my thinking:

- Balance is always a problem with Dobsonians, if the 12.5 inch were near the eyepiece it would probably add 50lbs of weight which would require a stiffer stronger structure plus probably a few hundred pounds of counter balances in the base... not a good thing. Even a Starblast and an eyepiece and rings would "only" weigh 6 lbs or so but that would still cause significant balance problems.

- That's a 40 inch F/5, that means the focal length is about 200 inches and the maximum field of view is less than 0.5 degrees, the 12.5 inch is there just to get close.

With a scope that requires a ladder, particularly a tall ladder, one actually points the scope from the ground and then climbs the ladder. With a scope that tall, 10 degrees represents about 3 feet of motion of the focuser, you'd have to climb down, reposition the ladder, climb back up, look through the scope, climb back down. With my 25 inch F/5, I position the scope with the Telrad while I am standing on the ground.

Jon


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Mark Costello
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5546870 - 11/30/12 09:41 AM

I can't believe that I miswrote the finder focal length as 1500 meters! Zounds! I meant 1500 millimeters! I corrected my post in that respect.

Well, Jon, you make some good points, as usual. I still believe a 4-6" short tube reflector would make a better finder with a capacity to get a 3-4 degree field of view with a reasonable eyepiece. A magnifying finder in the back would best be a reflector for comfort.


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simpleisbetter
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: snommisbor]
      #5546904 - 11/30/12 10:14 AM

"You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake?"

Nah, I go there on purpose all the time. Years back on my old CN user account (when I owned my last dob), I did once go to the Cats forum and forgot the "reflectors" I was reading about weren't newts, and replied as if the OP's scope were a newt...


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Mark Costello]
      #5546994 - 11/30/12 11:19 AM

Quote:

I can't believe that I miswrote the finder focal length as 1500 meters! Zounds! I meant 1500 millimeters! I corrected my post in that respect.

Well, Jon, you make some good points, as usual. I still believe a 4-6" short tube reflector would make a better finder with a capacity to get a 3-4 degree field of view with a reasonable eyepiece. A magnifying finder in the back would best be a reflector for comfort.




I suspect Steve Swayze probably doesn't need a short tube refractor to find his way around the sky. Even a duffer like myself, a Telrad is fine for finding my way around the sky with my 12.5 inch if the skies are sufficiently dark. My 12.5 inch scope is capable of a nearly 2 degree TFoV with a slightly oversized 7.6 mm exit pupil.

jon


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snommisbor
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: simpleisbetter]
      #5546998 - 11/30/12 11:21 AM



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David E
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5547045 - 11/30/12 11:54 AM

Quote:

You know, it is possible the big dob is the finder for the little one...........might have a wider FOV.....




Of course it would. It's got a bigger opening to allow in more field of view.


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: David E]
      #5547259 - 11/30/12 01:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

You know, it is possible the big dob is the finder for the little one...........might have a wider FOV.....




Of course it would. It's got a bigger opening to allow in more field of view.




It's got the bigger field to mow, that for sure... One thing that is not so obvious about such scopes is how much room the require. A 25 inch F/5 covers a circle about 20 feet in diameter, you don't want anything inside that circle or it may get hit. A 40 inch F/5 covers a circle about 10 meters in diameter or 33 feet...

Jon


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Meadeball
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5548234 - 12/01/12 02:55 AM

How you gonna move that danged Dob when you're trying to center something in the finder? What a nightmare.

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csrlice12
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Meadeball]
      #5548792 - 12/01/12 01:21 PM

With it's self-contained cold fusion reactor of course......

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GOLGO13
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5548829 - 12/01/12 01:46 PM

A friend of mine has observed through a 40 inch dob...said it was crazy good. Had to use an orchard ladder to look through it.

Considering the 30 inch I looked through wasn't even in that good of shape, I can only imagine what a high quality 40 inch would be like.

Good stuff.


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JMW
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: GOLGO13]
      #5560040 - 12/07/12 10:06 PM

I camped next to a 40 inch home made dob this summer at the Oregon star party. The guy made the mirror out of fused plate glass. It weighed about 800 pounds and he needed a winch to load or unload it from the trailer. Fun to look through but we ended up mostly on very faint objects that were still on the edge of perception. He was looking for a permanent dark site to keep it at. It was a little too much hassle to transport. The ladder was a 16 foot Tallman astronomy ladder modified to have wheels to easy positioning.

Edited by KWB (12/08/12 02:17 PM)


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: JMW]
      #5560408 - 12/08/12 04:48 AM

Quote:

I camped next to a 40 inch home made dob this summer at the Oregon star party. The guy made the mirror out of fused plate glass. It weighed about 800 pounds and he needed a wench to load or unload it from the trailer. Fun to look through but we ended up mostly on very faint objects that were still on the edge of perception. He was looking for a permanent dark site to keep it at. It was a little too much hassle to transport. The ladder was a 16 foot Tallman astronomy ladder modified to have wheels to easy positioning.




Was it this scope:

Steve Swayze's 40 inch Dob

If so, it is hard to think of anything Steve Swayze builds as "Homemade."

Jon


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JMW
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5560427 - 12/08/12 06:08 AM Attachment (26 downloads)

No. Here is a picture. I am amazed that I forgot the guys name. It may have been Scott. I camped next to him for 6 days. He said it took him 7 years to finish the mirror.

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EddWen
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: JMW]
      #5560897 - 12/08/12 01:33 PM

Quote:

.... He was looking for a permanent dark site to keep it at....




http://darkskyobserving.com/

Kindred folks.


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KWB
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: EddWen]
      #5561783 - 12/09/12 01:24 AM

Let's stay on topic in this thread,folks. At present it's about the 40 inch dob from the previous few postings.

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M44
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: KWB]
      #5561819 - 12/09/12 02:09 AM

Quote:

Let's stay on topic in this thread,folks. At present it's about the 40 inch dob from the previous few postings.




Exactly!
I don't have to visit reflector forum. It's right here.

Seriously, I go there on purpose to see how they store and cover their Reflectors when they take out refractors for most of the visual observing.


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jgraham
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: M44]
      #5562288 - 12/09/12 11:44 AM

I made dozens of reflectors from my little 4.25" f/8 in 1968 to my biggo 16.5" f/6.5 30 years later and my 10" f/30 Gregorian in between, but I always dreamed of owning a large refractor, a dream that I fulfilled a few years ago when I bought a AR-6. Of all my scopes two have a special place in my heart; climbing the ladder to the eyepiece of my 16.5" and sitting under my 6" achro. It breaks my heart when I read threads in one forum ripping apart the other. Variety is the spice of life, and I enjoy everything life and a limited budget have to offer.

Have fun!


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: jgraham]
      #5563538 - 12/10/12 04:02 AM

Quote:

It breaks my heart when I read threads in one forum ripping apart the other. Variety is the spice of life, and I enjoy everything life and a limited budget have to offer.

Have fun!






Though a good deal of the banter posted here, (this thread is a good example) is tongue-in-cheek, this is not the case far too often. Most of us suffer from the "my telescope is the best one" syndrome to a greater or lesser extent but in reality, all telescopes can provide enjoyable, satisfying views.

I consider it a virtue to have the attitude and skills to enjoy the night sky irregardless of ones equipment, be it a 60mm refractor purchased for $50 at Walmart or fancy telescope costing thousands of dollars.

I don't get the refractor only or the reflector only thing... they both have their place.

Jon


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Mark Costello
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5563827 - 12/10/12 09:40 AM

I'll not talk down any of the other telescope design, if for no other reason at least because I don't have enough experience with them.

I sometimes go to the Reflector forum but on purpose, mainly to sit back and lurk and pick up ideas for a complement that I might get for my refractor. At least as often I go to the Cats and Casses forum for the same reason....

There's plenty of work for a smaller scope like my achro. I spent 75 minutes last Saturday night just studying Andromeda and star field at 4 different powers (27, 49, 69, and 118) and making drawings of it. I would have been out there a good bit longer but clouds rolled in and brought down the curtain on the performance of my achro....

I get reminded of the need for a bigger scope and for all sorts of reasons, it will work mostly with mirrors.

All major designs bring some advantages to the table.
Refractors: ruggedness, ease of use, image quality...
Reflectors: Bang for the buck, potential for owning a big scope (Dob)
SCTs amd MCTs: versatility, ease of use, ...


Cheers,


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Sky Muse
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5564080 - 12/10/12 12:31 PM

"...be it a 60mm refractor purchased for $50 at Walmart..."

Whether for someone returning to or just starting out in the hobby, or for their child, the funds would be best spent on a slightly larger reflector, and available from numerous online vendors; Orion Telescopes, for instance.

Alan


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Sky Muse]
      #5564159 - 12/10/12 01:10 PM

Quote:

"...be it a 60mm refractor purchased for $50 at Walmart..."

Whether for someone returning to or just starting out in the hobby, or for their child, the funds would be best spent on a slightly larger reflector, and available from numerous online vendors; Orion Telescopes, for instance.

Alan




Just to be clear, this is what I wrote:

"I consider it a virtue to have the attitude and skills to enjoy the night sky irregardless of ones equipment, be it a refractor purchased for $50 at Walmart or fancy telescope costing thousands of dollars."

I hope it is clear that I was not recommending a 60mm telescope but rather discussing the importance of the observer's skills and spirit/attitude. I am fortunate enough have some decent quality equipment but I do have a $40 at Walmart Celestron Powerseeker 70 which I occasionally drag out for an hour or two, it's enjoyable .. It's a worthwhile experience even if only to keep things in proper perspective.

Jon


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Sky Muse
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5564200 - 12/10/12 01:32 PM

I understand, but in that price range a bigger bang for the buck would be a larger reflector. They're rather smart and easy to maintain, often coming with a center-dotted primary and very good instructions; and for a child, a more sensible introduction.

Alan


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snommisbor
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Sky Muse]
      #5564356 - 12/10/12 03:15 PM

As the OP of this thread it was just to be fun due to the fact I went to Reflector forum thinking I was in the Refractor forum. Being they are right next to each other and spelled almost the same barring 2 letters, I thought it was funny that I was in there and reading about what I thought were refractors and it took me a few minutes to realize I was in the wrong place. Not because I have anything against Reflectors just because I was wanting to get caught up on my favorite scope the Refractor and started to get confused. So it gave me a good laugh and thought I would share and see if others had done the same thing. Even those who might have come to the Refractor forum by mistake thinking they were in the Reflector. So this was just a fun thread to lighten the mood of the "Vs." "Which one?" and "Chinese made" threads.

But I do like the rivalry of our scopes, it is all in good fun, and I would gladly come and enjoy a view out from your huge light bucket reflector as you are welcome to come check out my awesome Refractor. It gets us all out under the stars and have camaraderie and make new friends as well as old ones we have made through this hobby.


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THEPLOUGH
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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: snommisbor]
      #5564881 - 12/10/12 08:52 PM

Quote:

It gets us all out under the stars and have camaraderie and make new friends as well as old ones we have made through this hobby







And that's the bit that counts...


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Sky Muse
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Reged: 10/26/12

Loc: De Soto County, MS
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: snommisbor]
      #5564927 - 12/10/12 09:21 PM

Hi!

I've read a little in there myself, once by accident, thinking the same. It doesn't seem to be as widely read as the Refractor forum; however, you could probably look at the phenomenon, in each case, as both being a part of the unique interest that is amateur astronomy.

Here in Mississippi, one of the last, truly dark-sky regions, in the Eastern U.S., rises above French Camp, about a third of a mile off the Natchez Trace Parkway in the north-central part of the state, although the remainder is dark enough for satisfactory observing, outside the cities, even here in my county, despite the light domes of Memphis and the casinos. I haven't been too disappointed, when considering the map...

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://geology.com/articles/night-satelli...

I just got home from work, and with my eyes well adapted after travelling, the sky glitters.

Men challenge each other at times, as it's in our nature. I suppose you could look at it as rivalry, true, but I also see it as just a first step in understanding one another.

The TEC triplet matched to the Tak mount...

Alan


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THEPLOUGH
ELEVEN Grandchildren; FIVE Ducklings
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Reged: 01/11/08

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Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: Sky Muse]
      #5564941 - 12/10/12 09:31 PM

Not a lot of light pollution there Alan... You probably see more with the naked eye than I do through my scope...

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Sky Muse
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Reged: 10/26/12

Loc: De Soto County, MS
Re: You ever go to the Reflector forum by mistake? new [Re: THEPLOUGH]
      #5564980 - 12/10/12 10:00 PM

Geoff,

It's surprising to me, given the proximity to Memphis especially, that it's as dark as it is. If the casinos would shove off, it'd be like a closed closet in every direction but north, but they're here to stay.

You'd love the view of Orion from here towards the south, not far from the zenith, at about one in the morning.



Alan


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