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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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guyve
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Reged: 10/27/12

If you had around $500-600 for a refractor....
      #5551042 - 12/02/12 09:04 PM

If you had around $500-600 for a refractor for AP what would you get?

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orion61

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Reged: 10/20/07

Loc: Birthplace James T Kirk
Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: guyve]
      #5551084 - 12/02/12 09:21 PM

I got mine for around that a few yers ago and have never been sorry 102mm Meade Ed/APO No color, Dont know if I got lucky or they are all this good.
It has held it own next to refractors costing 2-3X as much, and one out performed one, (to my delight, and his packing up and moving away from me)


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guyve
member


Reged: 10/27/12

Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: orion61]
      #5551139 - 12/02/12 09:56 PM

Did you get it used? Seems like it should be more than 500-600

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RTLR 12
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Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: guyve]
      #5551158 - 12/02/12 10:10 PM

For a budget of $500 to $600 you will be looking at something in the used 80mm ED range like a WO, AT, SV, or Meade. Look to the classifieds and some good scopes come up from time to time in the price range.

Stan


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coopman
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Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: RTLR 12]
      #5551166 - 12/02/12 10:18 PM

What do you have for a mount?

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guyve
member


Reged: 10/27/12

Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: coopman]
      #5551219 - 12/02/12 10:53 PM

cg-5gt

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guyve
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Reged: 10/27/12

Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: guyve]
      #5551220 - 12/02/12 10:54 PM

at65quad vs orion 80ed (i have currently)?

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orlyandico
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Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: guyve]
      #5551243 - 12/02/12 11:08 PM

the 80ed should be good.

i would replace the focuser with a feathertouch or moonlite (which is like $350) and get a field flattener.

i am using a 100ed right now, with a flattener and william-optics focuser. i have no complaints except the focuser isn't good enough for heavier loads (and it's a william-optics which is an upgrade over the stock focuser).

so if i had an 80ed, i'd get a $100 - $150 flattener (there are many) and a scratch and ding feathertouch for $350.

none of the $500 - $600 refractors out there come with a feathertouch or anything remotely similar. and all of them, doublet or triplet, would need a flattener anyway.

the orion 80ed and 100ed are FPL53 doublets, and optically very good (better than the faster/shorter doublets, simply because they are slower and longer). the only issues with the orion 80ed/100ed is the bad mechanicals of the focuser.


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: RTLR 12]
      #5551411 - 12/03/12 02:27 AM

Quote:

For a budget of $500 to $600 you will be looking at something in the used 80mm ED range like a WO, AT, SV, or Meade. Look to the classifieds and some good scopes come up from time to time in the price range.

Stan




A new ED-80 from Orion is $500, a used ED-80 is about $300 on Astromart. The ED-80 is popular for Astrophotography because of it very good color correction, the F/7.5 doublet based on FPL-53 is better in this regard than the scopes from other vendors that are slightly faster but use FPL-51 (or something similar). As far as I know, in this price range, only the ED-80s from Synta have the good FPL-53 glass.

Used does open up more options but in this price range, few doublets other than the William Optics 80mm F/7 FDs used FPL-53. There were a couple from Celestron that were in the F/6 range but I never saw it clearly stated by Celestron that they actually did use FPL-53.

Jon


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RTLR 12
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Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5551436 - 12/03/12 02:51 AM

I have very good luck and get great results with my Celestron Onyx 80 F/6.25 that uses FPL 53 glass. $300 to $400 on the used market.

Stan


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: RTLR 12]
      #5551445 - 12/03/12 02:58 AM

Quote:

I have very good luck and get great results with my Celestron Onyx 80 F/6.25 that uses FPL 53 glass. $300 to $400 on the used market.

Stan




Do you have a link to something where Celestron itself states the Onyx uses FPL-53, all I could ever find was somewhat vague.

Jon


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RTLR 12
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Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5551456 - 12/03/12 03:11 AM

Here...

http://www.astronomy.com/~/media/import/files/pdf/e/d/c/0107_celestron_onyx_8...

Stan


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: RTLR 12]
      #5551560 - 12/03/12 06:29 AM

Quote:

Here...

http://www.astronomy.com/~/media/import/files/pdf/e/d/c/0107_celestron_onyx_8...

Stan




Stan:



I have seen others refer to the Onyx as using FPL-53 but I have not seen it so stated by Celestron itself. What I have seen Celestron say is "Fluoro-Crown" which could be any ED glass.

In Phil's review, he states:

"Jupiter appeared sharp and clear with a slight purplish halo of false color surrounding its limb. I also saw purple fringing around the moon's limb.

... Is it a pure apochromat? No, given the purple fringing I saw around the moon and Jupiter."

This is an F/6.25 scope with a 500mm focal length which would increase the level of chromatic aberration somewhat over the ED-80's at F/7.5. In any event, my 80mm William Optics FD which does have an FPL-53 based objective has a 555mm focal length (F/6.9) and I see no evidence of chromatic aberration even on Venus which is much more demanding than either the moon or Jupiter. There is some irony in the fact that William Optics called a "Fluorite Doublet" but in fact it used FPL-53.

Different observers have different sensitivities to chromatic aberration but the Onyx has always represented something of a conundrum because I never could find a specific statement by Celestron that the Onyx did use FPL-53 and reviews like Phil's that mention CA only confuse the question.

Maybe I an asking too much..

Jon


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orlyandico
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Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5551561 - 12/03/12 06:33 AM

If my WO Z70 with FPL52 is any indication, I'd say the Onyx is similar. In other words, not FPL53.

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RTLR 12
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Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5551623 - 12/03/12 08:02 AM

You know I just made a simple statement about a scope in the $300 to $400 price range. I wasn't trying to make any claims or start a discussion on glass types. It seems people have trouble with the Onyx, so I try not to mention it too often. It's like the red headed stepchild of refractors. I have had people walk up to the scope to look through it and then turn away when they see what it is. I get more false color from my Stellarvue SV115T20 than from my Onyx. Of course the Stellarvue doesn't use the right kind of glass either. I seem to like the Onyx I have, but apparently it's no good because it doesn't have the right kind of glass or drive the right kind of car. If you think the views I'm get are no good, then I guess I'll just have to live with an inferior scope. Darn...Just when I thought I had a good one too. I'll have to save my money and buy a proper $300 to $400 scope. I wonder which one that would be? Well, I'm sure someone will tell me which one I should or shouldn't buy. Maybe I should get a Dobsonian?

Stan


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csrlice12
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Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: RTLR 12]
      #5551661 - 12/03/12 08:45 AM

+1 on the Dob. Everyone should have one for visual use. How else are refractor folk supposed to know how much coloring they are having???

New, Improved, No artificial coloring!!--It's a Dob.....


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newtoskies
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/12

Loc: SE Ma.
Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5551841 - 12/03/12 11:06 AM

Quote:

New, Improved, No artificial coloring!!--It's a Dob.....



I like that one.
I popped in to check this thread out to maybe see what people would buy in that price range, but as with most topics it gets side tracked to the tech stuff. As a Dob owner ( proud of it too) I wanted to try my hand at a refractor. I thought by entering this area of scopes and viewing I could gain more knowledge and understanding of telescopes. Well instead it's turned out it seems that newbies like myself are often put off because we are basically being told that certain beginner scopes are no good and we should get a better scope, that of course is way out of our budget.

So back to the OP's question. Well after my head stopped spinning when I asked about a refractor, I kind of have a slight clue about these scopes. So for me, I would still get either the 120ST or an ED80.


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csrlice12
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Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: newtoskies]
      #5551848 - 12/03/12 11:09 AM

Obviously, a Dob will not be ideal for AP, not even a Newt on a CG5. Maybe a nice 80mm triplet, you should be able to find a good used 80mm APO for $500.

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Doug Culbertson
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Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: guyve]
      #5551860 - 12/03/12 11:17 AM

Quote:

If you had around $500-600 for a refractor for AP what would you get?




Are you close to Mingo Junction Ohio? I used to own the 127mm version of this telescope and it was excellent.


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buckeyestargazer
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/12/08

Loc: IN, USA
Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: guyve]
      #5551906 - 12/03/12 11:54 AM

Quote:

If you had around $500-600 for a refractor for AP what would you get?




Hands down my choice would be an AT65EDQ for AP. Since the 65Q has a flat field, not having to mess with a flattener is a huge plus. My second choice would be an Orion EON 80mm. I have owned both scopes and used both for AP. I found the quality of both to be excellent.

However it also depends on what types of objects you want to photograph, and how stable a mount you have. The above refractors will give good wide-field images, but will be less well suited for galaxies or smaller planetary nebulae.


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Scott BeithAdministrator
SRF
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Reged: 11/26/03

Loc: Frederick, MD
Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: buckeyestargazer]
      #5552010 - 12/03/12 12:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

If you had around $500-600 for a refractor for AP what would you get?




Hands down my choice would be an AT65EDQ for AP. Since the 65Q has a flat field, not having to mess with a flattener is a huge plus. My second choice would be an Orion EON 80mm. I have owned both scopes and used both for AP. I found the quality of both to be excellent.

However it also depends on what types of objects you want to photograph, and how stable a mount you have. The above refractors will give good wide-field images, but will be less well suited for galaxies or smaller planetary nebulae.




+1


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: If you had around $500-600 for a refractor.... new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #5552342 - 12/03/12 04:04 PM

The ED-80 is hard to beat, though it isn't amazingly fast. The color correction is very, very good, though. The Celestron C80ED and current 80ED labeled SkyWatcher have the same cell. If only every little kid had one of these waiting under the tree.

The f/6.25 version which was the Orion EON and the SkyWatcher Equinox is good, but doesn't have quite as good a color correction. But I would not despair- the correction I found was ideal if after best focus I rolled the focuser out 1/10 mm. So, these are usable on a budget. And the OTA is so pretty, I can't bear to part with mine. It's basically doing visual, though it can be run at f/5 with a 0.8 reducer/corrector.

Narrowband forgives all- after all, chromatic aberration is the effect of multiple colors coming to different focal points. So, in that case, an ST-120 is an option. NOTE, different color images will need to be scaled to combine them.

The AT-65 is a good suggestion- faster and shorter focal lengths are more forgiving. With that said, anything under 800mm should be pretty forgiving.

-Rich


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