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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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ianatcn
sage


Reged: 05/26/10

Loc: Hampshire, UK
NEW Televue long focus Achromat objective!
      #5627845 - 01/17/13 11:10 AM

I thought I would start this new thread about the new Televue lens as it is rather off topic for the Skylight refractor thread that is running.

Now that Televue, an undeniable leader in its field, has thrown its might behind a new long focus achromat lens are we likely to see other top manufactrers joining in?

Being of a certain age and raised on long focus achromats I am delighted to see that Televue is supplying Skylight Telescopes in the U.K. with a new 4" F15 lens. I have long been of the opinion that there is a legitimate place for long focal length refractors alongside the more expensive and shorter apo's of similar aperture. The best views I have had of the sun have been through long focus achro's which is something they excel at. In fact just recently a view through Richard Day's 4" F15 fitted with a 0.7A Daystar filter showed amazing contrast, detail and image scale in prominences that made my jaw drop.

What do you think, are you excited by this move on Televue's behalf and if so would you like to own one?

As Televue are supplying this lens exclusively to Skylight Telescopes you will have to go to Skylight web site for more information, not Televue's.

I have no connection with either company apart from having ordered one of the new refractors.

Edited by ianatcn (01/17/13 04:34 PM)


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Ravenous
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/14/09

Loc: UK
Re: NEW Televue long focus Achromat! new [Re: ianatcn]
      #5627877 - 01/17/13 11:24 AM

I'm just wondering how much more there is we don't know.

First of all Televue don't make lenses. They outsource the optics (mainly to Japan I gather though the eyepieces are certainly assembled in other places, and the scopes in the USA.)

Did Televue actually design (or specify) this lens? Are they outsourcing it to a manufacturer, then getting the glass shipped to themselves, putting them into cells, testing/approving them and finally shipping them to Skylight exclusively?

I'm not complaining, I just find it hard to believe all of this is being done for such a small run of lenses, at a surprisingly low price for a custom job.


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t.r.
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: NEW Televue long focus Achromat! new [Re: Ravenous]
      #5627894 - 01/17/13 11:32 AM

I think this is simply a one-off venture for SL and TV. I don't think you will see mad rush by other vendors to reciprocate. WHat has been presented is for a niche market, one that I think other vendors won't bother with.

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Yu Gu
member


Reged: 06/18/06

Re: NEW Televue long focus Achromat! new [Re: t.r.]
      #5627931 - 01/17/13 11:48 AM

"Now that Televue, an undeniable leader in its field"
In the feild of eyepiece? I would agree
In the field of long-focus achro? not so sure
I would take a 100ed over a 4" F15 achro anyday.
My TV102 was not as well figured as any of my synta scopes. I would rather trust a known big manufacture than some unknown sub-contractor.


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Binojunky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/25/10

Re: NEW Televue long focus Achromat! new [Re: Yu Gu]
      #5627976 - 01/17/13 12:14 PM

Sad to say that TV are not the end all of optics, the engineering quality of their products is very good however I know of one customer who received a very average objective in his scope, then again others have received superb optics, like any other manufacturer out there variables happen,DA.

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BillP
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/26/06

Loc: Vienna, VA
Re: NEW Televue long focus Achromat! new [Re: ianatcn]
      #5628075 - 01/17/13 01:13 PM

I personally consider all of TV's telescope offerings as "niche" items. The Petzval's are their flagships. They service this niche market. Aside from those, their only other APOs are doublets...and small ones at that. This Achro is yet another niche for them. I think it is a good venture for them...one that has many possibilities. The APO has overshadowed the refractive market for some time, to the point that high quality build achros with current day lenses are simply hard to find. Seems this venture is a low risk test of the waters that will grow however the market reacts. If it were me doing this, I'd offer 65mm, 85mm, 105mm offerings right out the gate...all f/12 or f/15s...this way satisfy a range of buyers.

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: NEW Televue long focus Achromat! new [Re: Ravenous]
      #5628132 - 01/17/13 01:50 PM

Maybe Al has a soft spot in his heart for old-school refractors? He doesn't have a place in his business to make one, but in the interest in seeing a high quality 4" throw-back achromat in the marketplace, he kindly used his firm's supplier connections to help Skylight out, as well as make a little margin on the transactions.

Put another way, what does it cost Televue, really, other than a little time?

Regards,

Jim


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: NEW Televue long focus Achromat! new [Re: Yu Gu]
      #5628137 - 01/17/13 01:52 PM

On the other hand, my TV-102 is better figured than any of the Synta refractors I've owned. Similarly, several (though not all) of the Long Perng optics I've owned are better figured than the Synta optics I've had. Luck of the draw.

The mechanicals and build quality of Televue and Long Perng optical tubes is also light years ahead of the Synta scopes that use Synta made tubes. Synta tacitly acknowledges this be adopting Long Perng tubes on their higher end scopes. Skylight, similarly, is in a different league than Synta on the quality of the tube assemblies.

I'll put it this way - I'd far rather have a long focus doublet objective from Televue's Japanese supplier or Long Perng than I would Synta.

- Jim

Edited by jrbarnett (01/17/13 01:55 PM)


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: NEW Televue long focus Achromat! new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5628149 - 01/17/13 01:59 PM

I am still waiting to see what TeleVue has to say about this. What exactly is going on here. I looked at the TeleVue page but found nothing.

Somehow it seems a bit of step to consider this as a "New TeleVue long focus Achromat" if what they are doing is just supplying a lens to someone.

Jon


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: NEW Televue long focus Achromat! new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5628181 - 01/17/13 02:22 PM

Sure. I'd analogize this to when TEC sold 110mm triplet OGs to William Optics for the original FLT-110 scopes.

The resulting scope was not a "TEC scope" but rather was a William Optics scope with TEC optics.

- Jim


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bobhen
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/25/05

Re: NEW Televue long focus Achromat! new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5628186 - 01/17/13 02:25 PM

I believe all of TV’s Petzval telescopes (up to but not including the NP101) used a long focus (F12?) standard doublet lens for the front element. They could just be supplying something similar.

Bob


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Spyke
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/22/03

Loc: Scotland
Re: NEW Televue long focus Achromat! new [Re: bobhen]
      #5628219 - 01/17/13 02:43 PM

Given that a long focal length achromatic objective has the potential for better correction of aberations than a more expensive and exotic short focal length apochromatic objective, and that a 100mm achromat at f15 is only going to have a small amount of CA anyway, I would assume that the lens is going to be "at least" very good. Especially as it's a project that TeleVue are happy to be involved with and have their name publicly mentioned in conjunction with.

I'd be surprised if any purchasers of this scope/lens combination ended up being disappointed with their purchase.

Which is not to say that it will be a direct competitor for a shorter f-ratio APO - it will be harder to mount and transport, and as has been mentioned, appeal to a somewhat niche market.

But going by how discussions have progressed in the last few years, I'd say that niche market (the long focal length achro crowd) is acquiring new members fairly consistently.

Personally I wish I could a) afford one and b) had a suitable observing site that would enable me to have one permanently set up in a small observatory, but at the moment I cannot meet either of those criteria...

Ant


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Bill Friend
super member
*****

Reged: 02/16/12

Loc: Maine
Re: NEW Televue long focus Achromat! new [Re: ianatcn]
      #5628232 - 01/17/13 02:51 PM

Ian,

I'm interested but concerned about the price point. $2,200 for the basic OTA. There are several 4 f/15 options out there now using old glass or new supplied by Antares "Vixen" Spec f/13, the new f/15 "Elites", and even a 4" f/15 from Edmunds mounted in a cell for ~$1k

http://www.edmundoptics.com/optics/optical-lenses/achromatic-lenses/large-pre...

An ota could be purchased or made for a lot less than the basic Skylight 4/15. I'm not doubting Richard Day's workmanship, he has a stellar reputation. But for the price, that TV lens better be worth it.

Cheers,
Bill


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Yu Gu
member


Reged: 06/18/06

Re: NEW Televue long focus Achromat! new [Re: Bill Friend]
      #5628337 - 01/17/13 03:39 PM

Let's see what's the tester thinks:

TV140
http://www.astro-foren.de/showthread.php?14448-quot-Foto-Maschine-quot-TeleVu...
Strehl: 0.878

TV102
http://www.astro-foren.de/showthread.php?8181-TeleVue-102-880-OTA-fast-ein-APO
Strehl: 0.95

ED120 Strehl: 0.972
WO132 Strehl: 0.463 (Long Perng ?)
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=U...

First ED120, same as above
Second 0.967
Third 0.962
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=U...


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teelgul
sage


Reged: 09/02/11

Loc: Australia
Re: NEW Televue long focus Achromat! new [Re: ianatcn]
      #5628357 - 01/17/13 03:49 PM

As some one said Televues eyepeice design , range and quality is unequalled .there they continue to innovate fast as eye peice has a bigger market as its a common factor in any scope set up and any way they are made in taiwan or japan.. their scopes are great but there serious competiton out there and in that they seem a little slow or reluctant to innovate so why not take up some extra work from others ?

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ukcanuck
Vendor (Skylight Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 11/07/06

Loc: London, UK
Re: NEW Televue long focus Achromat! new [Re: Bill Friend]
      #5628358 - 01/17/13 03:50 PM

Ok, I'd like to interrupt regularly scheduled programming to set a few things straight for the record:

TeleVue are not adding a long achromat refractor to their own TeleVue range and you won’t see this product on the TeleVue website or with TeleVue dealers. I think a small tweak of the thread title to something like ‘NEW TeleVue long focus Achromat objective’ (or something similar) would be good to avoid any misunderstanding...

To clarify, the objective lens (lens only) of my own Skylight AR101/15 long achromat is designed by TeleVue, tested & approved in New York, then supplied exclusively to me in London, England where I build the OTA. It won’t be found elsewhere.

Please continue to discuss and feel free to contact me with any questions you may have about this refractor.

To me, the fact that TeleVue is willing to think laterally in this manner is significant and shows real creativity. Further, the result will be a simply superb refractor. I’ve viewed through the objective and have no doubts about the optical quality. If you would like to read my first light report, it’s on the thread in the vendor’s forum.

Thanks for participating and now back to your programming....


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Bill Friend
super member
*****

Reged: 02/16/12

Loc: Maine
Re: NEW Televue long focus Achromat! new [Re: ukcanuck]
      #5628386 - 01/17/13 04:07 PM

Richard,

I noticed you replied to my post. Just to clarify, I didn't make any of the statements addressed in your post.

I initally assumed you replied in thread sequence, but realized there have been several posts after mine.

Cheers,
Bill


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ukcanuck
Vendor (Skylight Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 11/07/06

Loc: London, UK
Re: NEW Televue long focus Achromat objective new [Re: Bill Friend]
      #5628411 - 01/17/13 04:24 PM

Quote:

Richard,

I noticed you replied to my post. Just to clarify, I didn't make any of the statements addressed in your post.

I initally assumed you replied in thread sequence, but realized there have been several posts after mine.

Cheers,
Bill




Hi Bill, no problem, my post wasn't directed at you. Your post was just the last one when I started typing and a few posts appeared while I was re-reading it...several times.

Also, so that this is out in the open and isn't misinterpreted when it happens, I'd like to point out that the plan is to show the Skylight AR101/15 on the TeleVue stand at NEAF this coming April. Any questions not directed to me beforehand can be asked of me in person.

However, my statement in my previous post will still stand...



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ianatcn
sage


Reged: 05/26/10

Loc: Hampshire, UK
Re: NEW Televue long focus Achromat! new [Re: ukcanuck]
      #5628427 - 01/17/13 04:31 PM

Thanks for the clarification Richard. I take your point about the thread title and will modify it so there is no confusion.

This has been a really stimulating thread to read so far. I will make sure I report back in detail when I get my AR101/15. I don't expect it to perform better than an excellent 4" aperture should do but having a TV76 and TV127is in frequent use it will be interesting to see how it fits between them in terms of performance.


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BillP
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/26/06

Loc: Vienna, VA
Re: NEW Televue long focus Achromat! new [Re: ukcanuck]
      #5628445 - 01/17/13 04:42 PM

Quote:

To me, the fact that TeleVue is willing to think laterally in this manner is significant and shows real creativity. Further, the result will be a simply superb refractor.




I quite agree. And it shows real creativity on your part as well


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