Astrojensen
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/05/08
Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: Mark9473]
#5666871 - 02/07/13 11:06 AM
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I can't imagine why y'all encourage a guy who's considering a 60mm as his only scope. A short focus 80mm would be just as grab&go and will show a lot more on every type of target in the night sky. Larger than that and you give up on the portability and convenience IMO, but there's no good reason to go for something as tiny as a 60mm.
Well, I used a 50mm f/17 Zeiss refractor as my only scope for about three years. I saw a truckload of stuff during those three years, because I made it a challenge to find out exactly where the limits to its performance were. I never wrote off an object (within reason, I didn't waste my time with 14th mag galaxies, obviously, but 12th magnitude was fair game!) as "impossible", without actually verifying with an earnest attempt to see it, whatever the numbers said.
Using a small scope to observe (relatively) challenging objects is not for everyone, but for me it made a heck of a lot of fun. Inspired by Jay Reynolds Freeman, I began a Herschel 400 survey with it and finished a couple of constellations. I only stopped because I didn't have a correct image diagonal for it at that time, which made starhopping a tiring process. The H400 survey was continued with my 63mm Zeiss Telementor and later Telemator, which do have a correct image diagonal. I have seen over 200 H400's with them.
The 50mm Zeiss was an extremely good double star telescope and I could detect many difficult pairs. I also had fun with it as a lunar-planetary telescope. Some years later I made a new OTA for it and took it with me when I attended a school far from home. It was a smash hit among the other students, who spend bitterly cold nights outside with me, just to get a glimpse of lunar craters, the belts of Jupiter or his moons. The Jovian moons were a favorite.
A 50mm scope is big enough to show all the major sights in the solar system and fine examples of every class of object, with the only exception being globular clusters (in the northern hemisphere). It can only resolve some outlying members of M13 with great difficulty. Omega Centauri would be a whole different experience, but it is reserved for southern hemisphere dwellers.
With the right attitude, any telescope can be tremendously satisfying. With the wrong one, they are all too small. Most people are somewhere in between, usually ending up with the largest scope they can possibly set up themselves.
Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark
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Mark9473
Postmaster
Reged: 07/21/05
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: Astrojensen]
#5666919 - 02/07/13 11:36 AM
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Sure Thomas they can be fun, I won't disagree on that. But globular clusters *is* a big exception especially since these are among the brightest DSOs to be found. And let's be honest, for lunar and planetary observing every centimer of aperture counts big time.
I had a 60 mm as my only scope when I was young, and had all the right attitude and enthousiasm you could ask for, and better eyes as well as better skies than I have now, and I still won't recommend one. This is not about "never big enough"; I spent three decades with telescopes no larger than 90 mm.
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Astrojensen
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/05/08
Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: Mark9473]
#5666977 - 02/07/13 12:07 PM
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Aperture always wins over less aperture, given equal quality. I don't disagree that a somewhat larger scope won't show more, a lot more, even. Still, for some, a 60mm, or a 50mm, is enough.
Today my most used scopes are my 6" refractor and my 12" dob. Did I grow tired of my 63mm Zeiss? No. I still use it frequently. Are the bigger scopes more fun? No. It's a different kind of fun, in a way, but not more fun than the smaller scopes.
For some, a 60mm might be all that is needed to maintain a lifelong interest in astronomy. If it was the only scope I had, I would still be out there every clear night.
In the end, selecting a scope is a highly personal thing. We can only give advice about what worked for us. I find dobsonians a thrill, others hate them. I find small scopes to be interesting, others find them boring.
And I personally find that one only truly values aperture, if one has observed diligently for years with a small scope.
Would I recommend a 60mm as a first scope? Difficult to say. I find it difficult to recommend the 60mm's on the market today and people seem to have less patience than they used to have, especially kids. I have lent a 63mm Zeiss to a friend as a first scope and he is happy with it. I wouldn't have any qualms recommending a Zeiss Telementor as a first scope, especially if the user understood that he wouldn't get color HD Hubble images in any scope anyway.
If a Zeiss isn't available and the budget is limited, I often recommend a 80mm - 100mm Sky-Watcher achromat to beginners. Some have emailed me later and thanked me, saying they got an excellent scope that was easy to use.
Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Loc: Virginia
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: Astrojensen]
#5667099 - 02/07/13 01:29 PM
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Well said Thomas. 
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Garfield
sage
Reged: 02/02/04
Loc: South-Western ON Canada
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: Doug D.]
#5667568 - 02/07/13 05:56 PM
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+1 to Thomas' post - Plenty of food for thought for anyone that hasn't already been through their own personal "telescope evolution".
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Astrojensen
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/05/08
Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: Garfield]
#5668298 - 02/08/13 03:10 AM
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Thanks guys!
Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark
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Lt 26
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/19/09
Loc: Northwest Illinois
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: Madratter]
#5669682 - 02/08/13 07:59 PM
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I looked at getting one but they are just to much money. For the same price you can get a SV70ED with a M1 mount on a S/S tripod with a nice diagonal.
Dereck
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azure1961p
Postmaster
Reged: 01/17/09
Loc: USA
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: Madratter]
#5669718 - 02/08/13 08:27 PM
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Well, I've got a Televue 70mm and its amazing. It does t fail - everything around it does, me, the seeing, the weather - but when alls a go - its exquisite. It's called a semi apo - I think that might be a misnomer as it doesn't contain fluorite but one element is special or some such. It IS incredibly sharp. You can get a full apo I suppose but I could care less as the riveting clarity has me a diehard fan. Not familiar with the 60mm but the Ranger is exquisite.
Pete
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azure1961p
Postmaster
Reged: 01/17/09
Loc: USA
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: t.r.]
#5669722 - 02/08/13 08:31 PM
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Try searching it on google...the search engine here is finicky at best. Google will lead you to articles and posts here on CN. Having read your introduction post, I don't think you will be happy with only 60mm's getting back into the hobby. Put the apo designation aside...it is not magic. You are on the right track thinking 5" Mak or perhaps a 6" SCT. These could easily be your one scope IMO. I like 6", because according to "The Backyard Astronomers Guide" 6" will get you a view of every type of object astronomy has to offer, excluding galaxy clusters...according to the table in the book anyways.
Having just pushed my Ranger like the second coming I will temper that with agreeing with the 6" sct being better. It has a definite clear advantage on everything over the 70mm. Literally all facets.
Pete
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johntrob
sage
Reged: 03/14/11
Loc: Georgia, USA
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: azure1961p]
#5669786 - 02/08/13 09:16 PM
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Six inch aprerture vs 3. I cannot argue with that. I have a Pronto, it is small, but I do enjoy it. Would not mind a six inch refractor, but that is way in the future.
John
TV Pronto
Orange Tube C8
OT C90 x2
OT Cometron
C6N-GT
ETC
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azure1961p
Postmaster
Reged: 01/17/09
Loc: USA
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: johntrob]
#5669923 - 02/08/13 10:52 PM
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I should clarify though I have the 6" and 8" the 70mm still sees a lot of use. It's too easy to set up and cools down in record time. Two things that are a major plus at the end of a long day or week as it were.
Pete
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t.r.
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/08
Loc: Upstate NY
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: azure1961p]
#5670306 - 02/09/13 08:49 AM
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I think there comes a point in a stargazers life where they simply know what aperture satisfies their criteria for an enjoyable observing experience. This comes through experience...read: owning alot of different scope sizes and types! When a new person asks for advice on what is best to start with, can we really say with honesty that 60mm is best?!?! 6" has been the standard for years regardless of scope type, and for good reason. All around, it will satisfy! If one knows deep down they can't handle a 6" sct or a 5" mak, then by all means the smaller offering may then be best(for me the smallest that satisfies is 90mm)...and only THEY can answer that for themselves. I'm confident in saying that they will see alot in a 5" or 6" scope. I'm just as confident they will miss alot in a 60mm as their only scope!  Many of us cut our teeth with the 60 for years and most of us wouldn't go back, knowing what we now know about aperture. It certainly couldn't be my only scope...but I could be happy for a lifetime with a 5" refractor or a 6" catadioptric. YMMV 
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azure1961p
Postmaster
Reged: 01/17/09
Loc: USA
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: t.r.]
#5670358 - 02/09/13 09:31 AM
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Id agree there. If I had one scope it wouldn't be 70mm - infact it'd be the 8". One thing that's not mentioned here as its not astronomy is the daylight applications of the 70mm are nothing short of fantastic. It's the go-everywhere s ope for everything. That I can look at cormorants on a lighthouse island 7 miles out to sea and then Cassinis division that night makes it a potent performer covering a lot of bases. Like u say its not a great ONLY scope but man does it get used!
Pete
Edited by azure1961p (02/09/13 09:31 AM)
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Binojunky
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/25/10
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: azure1961p]
#5670636 - 02/09/13 12:21 PM
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Lots of choices out ther, Stellarvue have discontinued their ED70 however they are available from Astro-Tech and Williams, regarding the Ranger and Pronto, I had both at one time and would say at the risk of getting flamed that the modern ED70,s give a better image,DA.
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telescopemullet
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/16/09
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: t.r.]
#5670645 - 02/09/13 12:28 PM
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Quote:
When a new person asks for advice on what is best to start with, can we really say with honesty that 60mm is best?!?!
The OP did not ask this question, he told us he had arrived at his decision and then inquired about a scope of that apeture.
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la200o
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/09/08
Loc: SE Michigan, USA
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: telescopemullet]
#5670760 - 02/09/13 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
When a new person asks for advice on what is best to start with, can we really say with honesty that 60mm is best?!?!
The OP did not ask this question, he told us he had arrived at his decision and then inquired about a scope of that apeture.
+1 to this.
To the OP: I think that if you want a 60mm scope, you can hardly do better than the TV, a real little jewel.
Bill
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t.r.
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/08
Loc: Upstate NY
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: la200o]
#5671090 - 02/09/13 05:41 PM
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Ah, but the OP did ask the question...in his original post found here... Shortened link
Nor does KarlL state that a decision is made. He is considering a 60mm.
Edited by KWB (02/12/13 01:50 PM)
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Traveler
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/19/07
Loc: The Netherlands
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: t.r.]
#5671096 - 02/09/13 05:45 PM
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But not in this thread.
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t.r.
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/08
Loc: Upstate NY
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: Traveler]
#5671102 - 02/09/13 05:46 PM
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No argument there...I was simply following along with his decision process from this original post going beyond what is directly in front of me with his best interest in mind...I will excuse myself from further discussion.
Edited by t.r. (02/09/13 05:49 PM)
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Deep13
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/25/05
Loc: NE Ohio
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Re: Televue 60 - Any Thoughts?
[Re: t.r.]
#5671523 - 02/09/13 10:37 PM
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too small
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