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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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dpippel
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 04/05/13

Loc: Desierto de Sonora
Re: 102mm achro for cheap new [Re: pugliano]
      #5991911 - 07/26/13 08:13 PM

Man, I just bought the Celestron C80 ED deal at AWB and then I had to go and see THIS. Mine, with the 1.25" package, will arrive next Tuesday. Time for some comparisons.

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JonNPR
sage
*****

Reged: 03/04/13

Loc: Oregon
Re: 102mm achro for cheap new [Re: pugliano]
      #5991947 - 07/26/13 08:40 PM

An offer I couldn't refuse! Wavered on the issue of the Costco model now also being offered because I don't have a mount for the scope - nor do I have any refractor in the stable. The premium for the Costco model is $100 over the Christmas pricing, plus needing a new diagonal. I could buy a very good eyepiece for my NexStar 8SE or 10" Dob for that money.

Decided I can worry about the mounting later. I have an old wide format heavy duty Majestic 1800 camera tripod that might be adapted (I have no idea, but someone wiser might advise on this).

Perhaps just for Immediate testing, I could attach the 102GT to the NexStar mount, using the admittedly questionable dovetail? Weight shouldn't be an issue if the OTA is around 10 pounds...similar to the C8. Wouldn't elevate a lot I imagine, but anyone see any serious damage potential trying this?

Thanks!

Jon


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PeterR280
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/27/13

Re: 102mm achro for cheap new [Re: JonNPR]
      #5992022 - 07/26/13 09:23 PM

I ordered the Celestron C80 ED a few weeks ago and it finally arrived today. On a whim, I also bought the C 102 with the 2" diagonal for $79. That came today too. I am finding myself playing with the C80 ED more than the C102. If the clouds clear, I will test the C80 tonight. So far I really like the ergonomics of the C80. I will probably get a 2 speed Crayford style focuser from Agena Astro on it. It's sitting on an older CG5 I've had for a while. I really don't mind the mounting rings. The look like cast aluminum. For some reason I am just not as excited about testing the C102. I had one that I gave away a few years ago. I replaced it with a TV102 that I love. I have a feeling that the C102 is going to have the same color fringing that I didn't care for 10 years ago. I did put the 2" diagoanal on the C80. I would probably have paid at least $79 for a new 2" diagonal.

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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: 102mm achro for cheap new [Re: Koala117]
      #5992063 - 07/26/13 09:56 PM

Certainly, I believe this is exactly why. But there it is, isn't it? The lunar images from the C102 are wonderful. The C80ED has truly perfect color correction which the shorter ED scopes do not. I have often wondered why TV hasn't updated the TV-85. Maybe it's the eyepieces getting the love because they're the income, and that's all there is to it.

My current Refractor stable is the C102, C80ED, SkyWatcher Equinox 80ED f/6.25, AT66ED, and an AP130 EDFGT.

It sort of happened over time. I know the TV-85 has a huge following, and I have looked through one every chance I have gotten, but I have to say- get a C80ED. The color in the Equinox is about the same, and can be dealt with by pulling back about 1/10mm from sharpest focus.

Getting a stable like this took time- I ended up having 9 years to save up for the AP 130, which is satisfactorily amazing to look through.

The C102 is just a great deal. Not sure how they aren't losing the company letting them go for that.

-Rich

Quote:

Starhawk, could the longer focal ratio of the 102(f/9.8) achro play enough of a role in the difference vs. the tv-85 focal ratio(f/7) to actually make it better than a very expensive thing like a TV vs. an $80 Celestron?

~f/10 isn't really that slow, if I understand FR correctly and how it affects CA. I have an f/11 80mm and there is a *little* on the Moon.

Bear in mind, I own neither of these and likely will never own a TV(yay being poor >.<). I am merely curious as to what it is about the 2 you mentioned that would make that the case!

Would you be willing to show pictures through each with similar magnifications with no filters? I bet lots would be interested to see this! I know I would as the Celestron 102 is something that I could actually afford(once I got a mount that supports it that is ).




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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: 102mm achro for cheap new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5992071 - 07/26/13 10:01 PM

Getting some characteristic photos through the different scopes is a great idea. I'll have to get out from under the Monsoon, first. But I like the idea, especially since if enough of us posted full-color full moon refractor pix, it would really start to give a good idea of what the relative performance is between different refractors, and what some of the most cost effective gems are- note- this would need to be uncorrected data- best focus and shoot, scale to CN guidelines, and post.

-Rich


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pdxmoon
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 06/27/13

Loc: Oregon
Re: 102mm achro for cheap [Re: pugliano]
      #5992080 - 07/26/13 10:07 PM Attachment (54 downloads)

Just transferred to the Vixen Polaris. Gonna be a much smoother ride, I think. It looks happier already. (I think I'll name it "Copernicus"... cause it's big and flashy to me...)

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pdxmoon
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 06/27/13

Loc: Oregon
Re: 102mm achro for cheap [Re: Starhawk]
      #5992100 - 07/26/13 10:15 PM Attachment (48 downloads)

Quote:

Getting some characteristic photos through the different scopes is a great idea. I'll have to get out from under the Monsoon, first. But I like the idea, especially since if enough of us posted full-color full moon refractor pix, it would really start to give a good idea of what the relative performance is between different refractors, and what some of the most cost effective gems are- note- this would need to be uncorrected data- best focus and shoot, scale to CN guidelines, and post.

-Rich




Good idea. I took this this morning with iphone through the ED80. It's hard to get really in focus with the phone; I have to buy a cheap point and shoot. The advantage to the iPhone is I can get it online faster!


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PeterR280
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/27/13

Re: 102mm achro for cheap [Re: pdxmoon]
      #5992182 - 07/26/13 11:23 PM

I knew there was a catch with the C102. The built-in dovetail is at 90 degrees to the focuser a is so you can't rotate the focuser to be in-line with the dovetail since it is attached with 3 screws.

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: 102mm achro for cheap [Re: PeterR280]
      #5992243 - 07/27/13 12:10 AM

Most folks remove the dovetail anyway. It's too short and makes balancing difficult. Synta rings work and are cheap, and are more versatile.

http://www.telescope.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=7370&utm_source=ch...

- Jim


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PeterR280
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/27/13

Re: 102mm achro for cheap [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5992273 - 07/27/13 12:41 AM

It's no longer a $60 scope with the Synta rings.

I had a chance to compare views of Saturn tonight with the C102GT and the C80ED. Both are quite impressive, I didn't notice any significant fringing with the C102 as I had expected. I used an 8mm eyepiece on the C102 and a 3-6mm zoom Nagler on the C80ED. I didn't have too much time since Saturn was dipping behind a large palm tree. At 125x the C102 showed nice detail. I could some banding. The planet and rings had a nice sharp border. The C80ED was nice and sharp to 4mm or 150 magnification. It started to get fuzzy at 3mm. It could be the seeing and the fact that Saturn is lower on the horizon. The C102 seemed to show a little more detail in the banding. The C80ED seemed sharper and cleaner. It could be the better eyepiece on the C80ED.

I hope I don't get disappointed when my AP130GT comes next month and I do a comparison. The Celestrons are very good. I really like the size of the C80ED. The C102 was surprisingly light. It felt like it weighed the same as the C102.


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pdxmoon
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 06/27/13

Loc: Oregon
Re: 102mm achro for cheap [Re: PeterR280]
      #5992363 - 07/27/13 02:29 AM

Quote:

It's no longer a $60 scope with the Synta rings.






It becomes a $90 scope. Add the dove bar for $16 and now it's a $106 scope.

And in my opinion it's still worth it.


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jag767
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 06/20/13

Loc: Massapequa, NY
Re: 102mm achro for cheap [Re: pdxmoon]
      #5992452 - 07/27/13 04:35 AM

That list can definiteky keep going, but when you have it out and about, the views rationalize most any additional cost to make it more functional. I just had mine out, and up until the dew got to the point where I had to throw in the white flag. I had some great views with this bad boy. I really love it for open star clusters, they just resolve so nicely into these crisp pinpoints one can endlessly gaze at. Now if I can only find a value like this in the 6 inch category!

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pugliano
super member


Reged: 06/16/11

Loc: Michigan
Re: 102mm achro for cheap [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5992606 - 07/27/13 08:57 AM

Jim,

The link goes to rings that have a 90mm inside diameter. Won't those be too small for a 102mm tube? Also, how do the rings work? I see there is a screw on the top of the ring. Are there holes on the scope tube that they screw into?

Edited by pugliano (07/27/13 08:59 AM)


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dpippel
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 04/05/13

Loc: Desierto de Sonora
Re: 102mm achro for cheap [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5992803 - 07/27/13 11:16 AM

Quote:

Most folks remove the dovetail anyway. It's too short and makes balancing difficult. Synta rings work and are cheap, and are more versatile.

http://www.telescope.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=7370&utm_source=ch...

- Jim




Twelve bucks cheaper here:

http://agenaastro.com/agena-telescope-tube-ring-3-5.html

and as was pointed out above you'll still need a dovetail, which is an additional $23:

http://agenaastro.com/agena-8-anodized-dovetail-bar-for-eq5-and-other-mounts....


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dpippel
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 04/05/13

Loc: Desierto de Sonora
Re: 102mm achro for cheap [Re: PeterR280]
      #5992811 - 07/27/13 11:20 AM

Quote:

It's no longer a $60 scope with the Synta rings.




Well it's no longer a $60 scope with a mount either, and to be honest it wasn't really sixty bucks out the door anyway once you include the additional $10+ for shipping.

The point of this deal IMO is that you're getting a nice OTA on the cheap. This allows you to put it together with whatever other components *you* need to make it a viable grab-and-go at a very low cost.


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dpippel
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 04/05/13

Loc: Desierto de Sonora
Re: 102mm achro for cheap [Re: pugliano]
      #5992850 - 07/27/13 11:41 AM

Quote:

Jim,

The link goes to rings that have a 90mm inside diameter. Won't those be too small for a 102mm tube? Also, how do the rings work? I see there is a screw on the top of the ring. Are there holes on the scope tube that they screw into?




The outer diameter of the OTA is a hair over 100mm, so 4" rings would probably be a better fit:

http://agenaastro.com/antares-cradle-rings-4.html

http://www.telescope.com/Mounts-Tripods/Mount-Tripod-Accessories/100mm-ID-Ori...

I think that the 90mm rings would still work in a pinch though.


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gunfighter48
sage
*****

Reged: 03/18/13

Loc: Mill Creek, Washington
Re: 102mm achro for cheap [Re: dpippel]
      #5992867 - 07/27/13 11:55 AM

You will need 100mm / 4 in rings. These are what you'll need (or another brand). I bought a set of these for my C102GT and they fit just right.

http://agenaastro.com/antares-cradle-rings-4.html


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pdxmoon
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 06/27/13

Loc: Oregon
Re: 102mm achro for cheap [Re: dpippel]
      #5992881 - 07/27/13 12:07 PM

I have 100mm rings on mine; 90 on the C-80ED.

I had terrific views of La Luna with this last night-- higher mags were sharp and bright. It was really impressive. There was the slightest ring of violet--and it was slight--but it was in no way distracting. It seemed to be when the moon was at the corner of the ep, so perhaps the color was in some way the product of the ep. Either way, if that was the CA this scope puts out--I can live with it.

The ride, as predicted, was much more solid on the Vixen Polaris. This scope will stay on this mount. What vibration there was came from the focus mechanism--not the smoothest, but the moon is a very forgiving target until you get close in for higher magnification. Even then, in less than 3 seconds jiggle was gone.

I swept the scope high to the zenith and put on a 25 just to see the stars. The view was really nice. I now understand completely why folks who are into DSO use dobs and cats with their light bucket capacity. If I ever move beyond an occasional glimpse of DSO, I'll be wanting a reflector; I get it now.
Different tools for different needs. The next $59 8" dob I see, I'll buy, haha.

But the views for my purposes are wonderful. There's lots to see before I grow out of this scope.

Those of us who bought this thing got a great deal. For me it's my first 4" scope, and I can't see any reason to look for another 4".

If you need a 4" and like refractors, this thing performs.

Edited by pdxmoon (07/27/13 12:12 PM)


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DaveG
super member
*****

Reged: 12/28/03

Loc: Ohio
Re: 102mm achro for cheap [Re: pdxmoon]
      #5992907 - 07/27/13 12:20 PM

Just a FYI for anyone planning on replacing the stock R&P focuser with a crayford, I had to add an extension tube to reach focus on my 2 inch GSO dual speed.

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Michael Rapp
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 04/27/04

Loc: Dickinson, TX
Re: 102mm achro for cheap [Re: DaveG]
      #5992975 - 07/27/13 12:59 PM

Judging from the photos, the scope is a bit bigger than what I anticipated. (Not sure why that didn't click when I read the specs. It's 1000 mm fl, whereas my Dob with its big tube is 1200.) So this is on the high-end of a grab and go scope.

Still, I think it'll fit right in where I need it. My NELM is 3.5-4, so I typically don't go for deep sky from my house. So, For less than 15 minute observing sessions, I use my binoculars (this happens a lot in the summer, when sunset is not to long before I go to bed). For ~2 hour sessions, I use my 5" Mak, which can take a bit too cool down. Need something in that 15 minutes to 2 hour range.

I've been looking for a scope that would cool down faster and have better resolution for double stars than my 66 mm scope. (I much prefer the look of doubles in scopes without central obstructions). I think this scope will fit in right here.


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