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I have not heard any news from it.

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That, in itself, could be very ominous news.

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Jeff Chappell
Orion XT10

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List the questions we are seeking to answer with the LHC and ask; "Will my life be changed by what we learn with the LHC?"

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It's pretty hard to predict the answer to that question. If you look at the discoveries over the last century or so, and ask which ones have the biggest impact on your life, I doubt they are ones that would have been predicted to be a big deal before they happened. Transistors are an obvious one (who would have guessed that some guys playing around with sand and salt would have discovered the basis for every computer we now have?). Relativity, which lead to nuclear power and weapons.

Will the LHC affect our lives? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe we will discover something that lets us figure out what Dark Energy is, and how to tap it for a pollution-free source of energy. Maybe we will discover something about the properties of space itself in the presence of extreme conditions that allows us to travel near light speed. Maybe we will spend a lot of money and discover that we still don't have enough energy to detect any of the things we expected, and will learn nothing (except that our predictions of what particles we should see were all wrong).

We won't know until we try.

Jarad

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; "Will my life be changed by what we learn with the LHC?"

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by means of that gigantic device we may

“erkennen, was die Welt im innersten zusammenhält”
(Goethe, „Faust“)

how to translate it?
I will try….

“we will discover wath held together the world in the innermost”

that’s not correct I assume,
who can do better?

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btw,
my friend ghosty (another forum) suggest the following translation

"Realize what keeps the world together in the innermost"

what do you mean
(or are there only such non poetic guys )

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Grüße von Iblis
The Universe is not only queerer than we imagine; it is queerer than we CAN imagine.
(Haldane)
and here I observe that universe
The sky is my heaven !********** ********

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How much energy expended for how much knowledge? Science is important but science is not exempt from the law of diminishing returns.

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What knowledge to be gain here will materially improve our lives? What knowledge gained here will simply satisfy our need for the WOW factor?

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Is it possible for someone to live a life not caring about how the universe came into existence but nevertheless marvel that the universe simply exist?

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List the questions we are seeking to answer with the LHC and ask; "Will my life be changed by what we learn with the LHC?"

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Paging Lady Astronomer:

Seems like Lady A's Deutsche sprache is just one of her many academic talents. Perhaps she could translate for us?

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Ok, I'll give it a shot, but I think Ilbis did a GREAT job!

"erkennen, was die Welt im innersten zusammenhält" litterally (word-for-word) means

"recognize, what the world in internal togetherholds"

but in this sense "erkennen" can also mean "discover" or "realize"

So... I would say something like:


"We will discover what holds the innermost world together."


Ilbis,

Kratzer Silbi hinter den Ohren für mich, bitte!

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"Grown-ups never understand anything for themselves, and it is tiresome for children to be always and forever explaining things to them." -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, The Little Prince

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done, Lady A.

ich habe Silbi hinter den Ohren gekrault

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toll!!

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thank you for helping delete the ambiguity of the worlds innermost secrets

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schöne doppelte Bedeutung!

You are most welcome, Ilbis, but it was just a matter of rearranging a few words. You did most of the work already! Besides, you would very quickly see how poor my German sentence structure and grammar are if I were posting on a German speaking site -- which I've considered doing just for the practice.

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Jeez, she's also LadyMultilinguist???
(I find that quite intimidating!)

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Intimidating, eh?!? GOOD! :insert intimidating facial expression here:

Can't you tell by my avatar, that's the image I'm goin' for, Rick.




We now take you back to our regularly scheduled HSC thread...

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"Grown-ups never understand anything for themselves, and it is tiresome for children to be always and forever explaining things to them." -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, The Little Prince

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Would finding bacterial life on Mars change your life? It would mine; someone else wouldn't care at all.

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Arguments presented here are based upon the paradigms of the past and may not be valid for the kind of science we are looking at here. And that science is really abstract.

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I believe in science. I don't believe in science at any cost. The LHC may be science at any cost.

Apparently no one on this thread is willing to consider that as an issue.

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It's not that we won't consider it, but it has already been considered. Do you think they got that kind of funding without people considering that issue? We are talking about many billions of dollars. It has been studied carefully, and the combination of many panels of scientists from many nations, and the various politicians who voted to fund it all came to the conclusion that this science is worth the cost.

You want us to guarantee you that the LHC will produce a result that is worth the cost. We can't do that. We can say that there is no other cheaper way that we know of to study these fundamental issues. Understanding how the universe works is what lets us take advantage of the rules. Hopefully the LHC will give us a better understanding of those rules, which may or may not lead to us taking better advantage of them. But there are no guarantees until we try. The only guarantee we can give is that if we don't try, we won't learn anything new.

Jarad

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Would finding bacterial life on Mars change your life? It would mine; someone else wouldn't care at all.

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How would your life be changed?

Space exploration has changed my life and how I think about the universe but Darwin did a good job of that as did Newton and others. However, finding life on Mars would change nothing because the physical and biological nature of the universe should present few surprises in this repect. As far as Martian life goes it ain't looking good. Why do we need proof of life on Mars to reasonable believe that life exist elsewhere in the universe?

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How is your life changed when you stand on a mountain top and look at a vast panorama? When you fall in love? When you make somebody laugh? What about if you killed someone? Can you quantify those things? If not, then of what value are they?
How exactly did Darwin and Newton, and space exploration, affect your life? If you don't work in the aerospace industry, then I'd say, not at all. Are any of those things worthwhile? What about all the people who think space exploration is useless? That Darwin was wrong? Are they right or wrong?
Re: Martian life, I have to disagree about the prospects. But believing in life elsewhere in the universe isn't the same as finding it. You seem to be saying that faith alone is what should sustain us in all things, and looking for proofs is not necessary or desirable. This is true only of religion. Don't mistake religion for science.

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The LHC, for example, may result in a more abstract scientific knowledge than what we've known in the past and may result in a body of knowledge that history may view as esoterica. This isn't classical physics anymore and asking the question, "Is it worth it?", deserves more than many of the cliches offered here.

Again, how would it change your life?

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It may also provide the necessary clues to providing cheap, clean, limitless power sources forever. That would change both our lives. But again, we won't know until we get there.
So, to answer your question: Yes, it's worth it. If you disagree, you don't have to be part of it.

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Maybe string theory is validated, then what? 11 dimensions are proven to exist and insanity finds a new defense in the courtroom.

Arguments presented here are based upon the paradigms of the past and may not be valid for the kind of science we are looking at here. And that science is really abstract.

I believe in science. I don't believe in science at any cost. The LHC may be science at any cost.

Apparently no one on this thread is willing to consider that as an issue.

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Nope. I don't consider it an issue. I believe in science too, but I don't draw any lines. Where would you draw the line? What science is worthwhile to pursue, and what isn't? Who decides? What are the criteria? The position that if your material wellbeing isn't directly improved by the results of a scientific endeavor then it isn't worthwhile is extremely shortsighted and self-centered.

There are an infinite number of mysteries in the universe; most of them have nothing to do with us directly. That doesn't mean they're not worth solving. For the first time in history, maybe the entire history of the universe, we actually have a chance to do it. Should we back off because the material payoff might not contribute enough to the bottom line?

All that said, I applaud you for standing your ground and defending your case on what must seem a very hostile forum.

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- Rick
14" LX200GPS
8" Meade 826C

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