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neotesla
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 11/18/10

Loc: Canada
BBC Article...
      #5487085 - 10/24/12 02:16 PM

Something for discussion... Should astronomy be a compulsory topic for education?

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20121024-astronomy-should-be-compulsory


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deSitter
Still in Old School


Reged: 12/09/04

Re: BBC Article... new [Re: neotesla]
      #5487300 - 10/24/12 04:38 PM

I'd almost rather they remained ignorant than be browbeaten by the Kaku-ian, Greene-ian hordes of pseudo-priests teaching astronomy as a new form of closed-minded dogma.

-drl


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kw6562
Authoritative Ignoramus
*****

Reged: 06/25/08

Loc: MA
Re: BBC Article... new [Re: deSitter]
      #5487817 - 10/24/12 11:04 PM



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Otto Piechowski
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/20/05

Loc: Lexington, KY
Re: BBC Article... new [Re: neotesla]
      #5487826 - 10/24/12 11:13 PM

I taught with a Rico Tyler in the Kentucky Governor's Scholars Academy for about 10 years. In addition to his almost 30 years involved with the Academy and now being a university astronomy professor, he is a National Science Teacher of the Year award winner (feted and dined at the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum with President Clinton present).

Rico once pointed out to me, and it sounded convincing, that astronomy, well taught (as he always did things) is a gateway science to all other sciences; physics, chemistry, biology, mathematics.

Otto


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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: BBC Article... new [Re: Otto Piechowski]
      #5487916 - 10/25/12 12:24 AM

Any science, well taught, is a gateway science to all the others.

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deSitter
Still in Old School


Reged: 12/09/04

Re: BBC Article... new [Re: llanitedave]
      #5488048 - 10/25/12 04:26 AM

Exactly! This is precisely the sort of priestly behavior among the "astro-cognoscenti" that I was ranting against.

-drl


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moynihan
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 07/22/03

Loc: Lake Michigan Watershed
Re: BBC Article... new [Re: llanitedave]
      #5490350 - 10/26/12 02:37 PM

Quote:

Any science, well taught, is a gateway science to all the others.






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russell23
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/31/09

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: BBC Article... new [Re: neotesla]
      #5490824 - 10/26/12 08:23 PM

Quote:

Something for discussion... Should astronomy be a compulsory topic for education?

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20121024-astronomy-should-be-compulsory




The introduction of Garett P. Serviss's 1888 book "Astronomy with an Opera glass" talks about how people of that time did not know the names of the brightest stars, could not recognize the constellations, and could not distinguish planets from stars. Seems little has changed for the masses.

Dave


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Rick Woods
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: BBC Article... new [Re: deSitter]
      #5490831 - 10/26/12 08:26 PM

Quote:

I'd almost rather they remained ignorant than be browbeaten by the Kaku-ian, Greene-ian hordes of pseudo-priests teaching astronomy as a new form of closed-minded dogma.




Yeah, but what do you really think?


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deSitter
Still in Old School


Reged: 12/09/04

Re: BBC Article... new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5490893 - 10/26/12 09:23 PM

I can't, the local humble m-person will ban me

-drl


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moynihan
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 07/22/03

Loc: Lake Michigan Watershed
Re: BBC Article... new [Re: deSitter]
      #5490935 - 10/26/12 10:00 PM

What/who are "Kaku-ian, Greene-ian hordes"?

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deSitter
Still in Old School


Reged: 12/09/04

Re: BBC Article... new [Re: moynihan]
      #5490953 - 10/26/12 10:14 PM

I see you don't own a televsion machine.

-drl


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Otto Piechowski
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/20/05

Loc: Lexington, KY
Re: BBC Article... new [Re: llanitedave]
      #5491026 - 10/26/12 11:18 PM

Some years ago the state of Kentucky initiated a program called the Kentucky Education Reform Act. This program has accomplished good. For example, it has equalized school district funding.

One other thing KERA has done is to impose on all instruction government mandated standards. The result has been that the curricula of all subjects falling under the direction of the Kentucky Department of Education are quite defined, constrained, narrow, and exclusive to their own topic. This is in part due to the need to prepare students to perform well on tests. Thus, there is little or no room, in the actual high school education environment, to expand instruction much beyond topics exclusively devoted to the specific subject.

Though it is true to say all science subjects can serve as gateways to all other sciences subjects, it is difficult to imagine how biology, chemistry, and physics courses could incorporate much of the other sciences beyond a cursory treatment in today's actual education environment.

Astronomy has, as yet, been able to fly under the radar, perhaps because few who craft the government/education department curricular requirements consider it to be a real science. Though there are elements of mathematics and physics in astronomy course requirements; much of it is show and tell as is evidenced by the fact that astronomy, if it is taught in a school at all, is often taught by persons whose specific training is some other subject; sometimes not even a science.

Astronomy still possesses an innocence, relatively untouched by government/education department mandates, which can allow the dedication of instructional time needed to allow it to be a gateway.

How long this opportunity will last, no one can say.

Otto


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DarkSkys
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 10/11/10

Loc: In the dark desert of Eastern ...
Re: BBC Article... new [Re: Otto Piechowski]
      #5491184 - 10/27/12 03:41 AM

Quote:

Some years ago the state of Kentucky initiated a program called the Kentucky Education Reform Act. This program has accomplished good. For example, it has equalized school district funding.

One other thing KERA has done is to impose on all instruction government mandated standards. The result has been that the curricula of all subjects falling under the direction of the Kentucky Department of Education are quite defined, constrained, narrow, and exclusive to their own topic. This is in part due to the need to prepare students to perform well on tests. Thus, there is little or no room, in the actual high school education environment, to expand instruction much beyond topics exclusively devoted to the specific subject.

Though it is true to say all science subjects can serve as gateways to all other sciences subjects, it is difficult to imagine how biology, chemistry, and physics courses could incorporate much of the other sciences beyond a cursory treatment in today's actual education environment.

Astronomy has, as yet, been able to fly under the radar, perhaps because few who craft the government/education department curricular requirements consider it to be a real science. Though there are elements of mathematics and physics in astronomy course requirements; much of it is show and tell as is evidenced by the fact that astronomy, if it is taught in a school at all, is often taught by persons whose specific training is some other subject; sometimes not even a science.

Astronomy still possesses an innocence, relatively untouched by government/education department mandates, which can allow the dedication of instructional time needed to allow it to be a gateway.

How long this opportunity will last, no one can say.

Otto




During my entire time in school, we had 2 weeks of astronomy total, it dident even qualify as a " curosry glance", we basicaly covered that the earth is a planet, we have the moon, and there were 9 planets going around the sun, plus some rocks and gas and stuff. oh and the sun is a star.

That may acutaly be more in depth than what we acutualy went over, being that I was 12 when we went over it. It seems it wasnt deemed important enough for a standardized test, so it must not have been worth learning in there minds.

We had years of earth sciences( hydro cycle, volcanism, atmospheric science), chemistry, very basic physics*, and a few other I am sure I am missing.

* there were 2 more advanced physics classes, but they would only allow the "annointed few" who were deemed worthy into it, and the most advanced class only happened every other year, and you had to be in advanced calculus and have taken every other science class to get into it, I don't think I knew of them ever picking enough kids to acutaly have the class.

There was a class were all you did was watch movies though.

Edited by DarkSkys (10/27/12 03:42 AM)


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Skip
Starlifter Driver
*****

Reged: 01/23/08

Loc: Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Re: BBC Article... new [Re: DarkSkys]
      #5491544 - 10/27/12 11:19 AM

Yeah, and they were probably Kaku-ian and Greene-ian movies. A plethora of them on TV nowdays.

Oops, sorry. I don't know how old DarkSkys is but what he's talking about may be before Kaku and Greene. I know my time in school was WAY before them!

Edited by Skip (10/27/12 11:21 AM)


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Otto Piechowski
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/20/05

Loc: Lexington, KY
Re: BBC Article... new [Re: Skip]
      #5491659 - 10/27/12 12:44 PM

Guys/gals....I am not familiar with what you are calling Kakuian and Greenian movies. What are those? And, why are they not considered to be good?

Otto


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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: BBC Article... new [Re: deSitter]
      #5491672 - 10/27/12 12:51 PM

Quote:

I can't, the local humble m-person will ban me

-drl




Twice.


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russell23
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/31/09

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: BBC Article... new [Re: Otto Piechowski]
      #5491909 - 10/27/12 04:39 PM

Quote:

Guys/gals....I am not familiar with what you are calling Kakuian and Greenian movies. What are those? And, why are they not considered to be good?

Otto




I think it would be reference to Michio Kaku and Brian Greene both of whom popularize astronomy and science through books.

Dave


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DarkSkys
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 10/11/10

Loc: In the dark desert of Eastern ...
Re: BBC Article... new [Re: Skip]
      #5492831 - 10/28/12 09:57 AM

Quote:

Yeah, and they were probably Kaku-ian and Greene-ian movies. A plethora of them on TV nowdays.

Oops, sorry. I don't know how old DarkSkys is but what he's talking about may be before Kaku and Greene. I know my time in school was WAY before them!




Nah, I've only been outta H.S. for 1.5 years now, them guys have been around way longer than that.


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JKoelman
professor emeritus


Reged: 05/16/11

Loc: Bangalore, India
Re: BBC Article... new [Re: russell23]
      #5514518 - 11/11/12 01:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Guys/gals....I am not familiar with what you are calling Kakuian and Greenian movies. What are those? And, why are they not considered to be good?




I think it would be reference to Michio Kaku and Brian Greene both of whom popularize astronomy and science through books.





I like Brian Greene's books, less so Michio Kaku's science popularizations. But all of this is personal taste.

It comes across like there is a consensus here that both pop-science authors generally do a lousy job. No idea what would be the basis for that. Maybe because both authors strongly defend string theory?


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