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FirstSightModerator
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"Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars
      #5530545 - 11/20/12 04:16 PM

Here'a a link to today's story from NPR about a find the Curiosity rover mission has made with its sampling tools which scientists report will be "historical" if analysis confirms what preliminary findings show. However, mission scientists were keeping just what that "historical" find is under wraps for several more weeks, until they can verify for certain that their initial understanding of it is correct.

No, I'm not referring to the earlier finding of minerals which are characteristic of being formed by flowing water. This "historical" find may perhaps be something else; one can't help but speculate whether they've found some carbon-based molecule particularly characteristic of biochemical processes rather than typically arising from generic organic chemistry? If so, that would certainly explain why they're keeping what it is under wraps until they can verify it for certain.

What do you all think this "historical" find could potentially be?

Edited by FirstSight (11/20/12 04:19 PM)


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simpleisbetter
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: FirstSight]
      #5530572 - 11/20/12 04:26 PM

I really wish the scientific community would stop with the preliminary teasers of "something big, or exciting" to be announced when 99.99999% of the time it's nothing. I quit paying them any attention.

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Andy Taylor
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: simpleisbetter]
      #5530582 - 11/20/12 04:33 PM

Big Mac wrapper...?

Abandoned VW Beetle....

I just hope it's not just gonna fizzle out as usual.


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Mister T
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Andy Taylor]
      #5530612 - 11/20/12 04:53 PM

Un-exploded Illudium PU-38 interplanetary space modulator.

delays...delays...


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Jim7728
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Mister T]
      #5530784 - 11/20/12 06:38 PM

Nasa still needs time to figure out what they found.





Seriously, this is getting exciting if they in fact found organic matter.


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Jason H.
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: FirstSight]
      #5530787 - 11/20/12 06:40 PM Attachment (30 downloads)

"...What do you all think this "historical" find could potentially be?..."

My fantasy speculation (which has often been more entertaining to me than the actual anticlimactic, and sometimes dead wrong, announcements that usually follow) would be that the 'blueberries' are organic, and the soil is wet. Image is a crop from Sol 89 (clicking on the attached one will show the actual-image-size (but still cropped to fit here).

Click this for Image on NASA Curiosity website , their image looks even better/interesting IMO because on the top right (which I cropped out of the one below) it looks even wetter and one can see mini bucket sandcastles and soil compaction superficially resembling the bonding/clumping of wet sand.

Since it looks wet (versus the dry dust-bowl that I've often seen in other images), and the spherules (are they 'blueberries' too?) have an interesting carbon-esque color, I'll go with that. One can dream anyway.

Jason W. Higley

Edited by Jason H. (11/21/12 11:56 PM)


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StarWars
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: FirstSight]
      #5530860 - 11/20/12 07:15 PM


Another Mars Mystery: Has Curiosity Rover Made Big Discovery?

http://news.yahoo.com/mars-mystery-curiosity-rover-made-big-discovery-1835380...


While watching the Ultimate Mars Challenge on PBS the Sky Crane powerful rocket motors blasted the surface and revealed pristine bed rock from a river or lake.

I've seen the PBS special twice. Apparently the Ultimate Mars Challenge can be watched here....


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/ultimate-mars-challenge.html


Enjoy.........


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StarWars
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Jim7728]
      #5530869 - 11/20/12 07:20 PM

Quote:

Nasa still needs time to figure out what they found.





Seriously, this is getting exciting if they in fact found organic matter.





Wow the first intergalactic Twinkie.....



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MikeBOKC
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: StarWars]
      #5530915 - 11/20/12 07:47 PM

I want them to take their time -- no repeat of the Mars meteorite is it or isn't it a fossil? I agree, given the instrumentation hinted at it sure sounds like a glimmer of something organic. And if it is talk about turning a lot of theory and speculation inside out!

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BillFerris
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: FirstSight]
      #5531114 - 11/20/12 09:44 PM

Jimmy Hoffa

Bill in Flag


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star drop
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: BillFerris]
      #5531159 - 11/20/12 10:12 PM

Big deal. A Marssquatch footprint.

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InterStellarGuy
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: star drop]
      #5531172 - 11/20/12 10:21 PM

This makes no sense. If they can't tell us yet then what is the point in coming out and saying they have something even?

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Rick Woods
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: InterStellarGuy]
      #5531302 - 11/20/12 11:23 PM

Made you look!

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Dave Mitsky
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: BillFerris]
      #5531324 - 11/20/12 11:35 PM

Quote:

Jimmy Hoffa

Bill in Flag




The Holy Grail?

Dave Mitsky


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Andy Taylor
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Dave Mitsky]
      #5531499 - 11/21/12 04:18 AM

My glasses?

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Andy Taylor
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Andy Taylor]
      #5531504 - 11/21/12 04:25 AM

Image of strange Martian artifact News just in!!!

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Traveler
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Andy Taylor]
      #5531926 - 11/21/12 10:46 AM

Quote:

My glasses?






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Traveler
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Traveler]
      #5531972 - 11/21/12 10:59 AM

Maybe they found (traces of) liquid H20...

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Mister T
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Traveler]
      #5532242 - 11/21/12 01:07 PM

I have it from an inside source that it is an empty Samuel Adams bottle.

they are determining if it is Octoberfest or Porter before they go public.


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InterStellarGuy
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5532258 - 11/21/12 01:17 PM

Quote:

Made you look!




Hahaha.. I just hope this isn't like Kepler's anticlimatic "huge" announcement back in 2011 when everyone was anticipating they found Earth 2, and then it turned out to be Keplers first multiplanet system or some such.


When they say one for the history books, I wonder from whose perspective? That of a scientist, or from the perspective of the general population? The latter would seem
to imply something huge and ground breaking, the former could be mundane.


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Pess
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: InterStellarGuy]
      #5532318 - 11/21/12 01:52 PM


Pesse (I am hoping the news allows me to quench my thirst with a real expensive Scotch compliments of llanitedave.) Mist


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Joad
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: InterStellarGuy]
      #5532411 - 11/21/12 02:42 PM

Quote:

This makes no sense. If they can't tell us yet then what is the point in coming out and saying they have something even?




I agree completely. Now it has to be really big or there is going to be Martian egg on some faces.


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Kobayashi
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: InterStellarGuy]
      #5532416 - 11/21/12 02:47 PM

Quote:

This makes no sense. If they can't tell us yet then what is the point in coming out and saying they have something even?




The point is to make reporters come to the press conference, nothing more. IMHO the press is being irresponsible for reporting it as news.


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PhilCo126
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Kobayashi]
      #5532532 - 11/21/12 03:49 PM

Just follow --> http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=7534



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Footbag
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Mister T]
      #5532610 - 11/21/12 04:34 PM

Quote:

I have it from an inside source that it is an empty Samuel Adams bottle.

they are determining if it is Octoberfest or Porter before they go public.




Sure. Now it's empty!


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InterStellarGuy
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Joad]
      #5532822 - 11/21/12 07:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:

This makes no sense. If they can't tell us yet then what is the point in coming out and saying they have something even?




I agree completely. Now it has to be really big or there is going to be Martian egg on some faces.




egg-zactly. At this point I am expecting something related to life on Mars, an something beyond just finding organic compounds in Martian soil, (organics have been found in meteors etc...so fining them on Mars to me wouldn't be that historic), anything short of that, to me anyway, will be a let down.


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Joad
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: InterStellarGuy]
      #5532866 - 11/21/12 07:45 PM

I think I'm seeing what the excitement is about. That NASA image looks suspiciously like a blueberry garnished cinnamon cake. I do believe that they have discovered the leftovers of Zaphod Beeblebrock's breakfast.

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BillFerris
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Dave Mitsky]
      #5532871 - 11/21/12 07:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Jimmy Hoffa

Bill in Flag




The Holy Grail?

Dave Mitsky




Amelia Earhart?


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StarWars
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: InterStellarGuy]
      #5533156 - 11/21/12 11:50 PM

Quote:

This makes no sense. If they can't tell us yet then what is the point in coming out and saying they have something even?





JPL/NASA are required to get clearance from a higher authority when releasing information which could affect national security...

If the MSL did find some sort of fossilized life form we may never hear about it.


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Jason H.
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: InterStellarGuy]
      #5533217 - 11/22/12 12:51 AM

Quote:

... I just hope this isn't like Kepler's anticlimatic "huge" announcement back in 2011 when everyone was anticipating they found Earth 2, and then it turned out to be Keplers first multiplanet system or some such.




That one actually was quite a big deal,

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/kepler/news/kepler-16b.html

Kepler-16: A Transiting Circumbinary Planet
http://arxiv.org/abs/1109.3432

It was the first detection of a planet in a stable orbit (on the order of at least millions of years) around a binary star system. The significance of that discovery cannot be overstated IMO.

1. For a very long time in Astronomy the modelers were against this being possible, as they speculated that planets would be tossed out of binary star systems. Some important planet searchers were actually excluding binary systems from searches, in 2005 a top planet searcher Michel Mayor said "A few years ago, it was thought that [binaries] were a very bad site to search for planets," says Michel Mayor of the Observatoire de Geneve. "So we carefully eliminated all binary stars from our sample." Imagine that.

2. Binary star systems probably make up at least 1/3rd to more than half of our galaxy's star systems (i.e. IN ONE ANNOUNCEMENT THE POSSIBLE REAL ESTATE MAY HAVE DOUBLED.) Additionally, it's likely based on research done so far that planets will form from the same accretion disk as the binary system, so that now for many of the eclipsing binaries we see (especially those not in the Kepler sample), detection of planets in eclipsing binary systems using the transit method may be more likely (as the planets are orbiting in the same plane as the eclipsing binary stars, relative to us.)

3. Probably of great significance too, variations in the periodicity of the easier-to-detect planets relative to the binary star periodicities will give away sub-Earth mass planets and even moons!!! That's 'huge'.

Regards, Jason W. Higley


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star drop
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Jason H.]
      #5533552 - 11/22/12 08:59 AM

Arsenic based life forms? Absentee voting ballots? Alan Shepard's golf balls? Stefanyshyn-Piper's tool bag? BP tarballs? ES 25mm 100° eyepiece? Fossilized fruitcake?

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Qwickdraw
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Joad]
      #5533553 - 11/22/12 08:59 AM

Quote:

Quote:



I agree completely. Now it has to be really big or there is going to be Martian egg on some faces.




Faces or Feces?


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Kon Dealer
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Jason H.]
      #5533693 - 11/22/12 10:30 AM

Sure look like rabbit droppings to me.
Houda thought, Martian bunnies?


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Andy Taylor
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Kon Dealer]
      #5533706 - 11/22/12 10:39 AM

Road kill - maybe Curiosity squashed the first alien life form ever found...

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Qwickdraw
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Kon Dealer]
      #5533789 - 11/22/12 11:30 AM

Quote:

Sure look like rabbit droppings to me.
Houda thought, Martian bunnies?




Feces on Mars


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Mister T
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Andy Taylor]
      #5533890 - 11/22/12 12:38 PM

8 legs and green guts squished between the treads ....
watch where you going bub!!


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Radom
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Mister T]
      #5534066 - 11/22/12 02:50 PM

Quote:

8 legs and green guts squished between the treads ....




And so, with their name spelled out in Morse code up its back, would that make it proprietary to JPL??


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Jason H.
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Kon Dealer]
      #5534116 - 11/22/12 03:46 PM

Quote:

Sure look like rabbit droppings to me.
Houda thought, Martian bunnies?




One may remember this from the Mars rover Opportunity





Jason H.


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Otto Piechowski
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Jason H.]
      #5534550 - 11/22/12 10:22 PM

What is the SAM designed to detect?

What is the SAM capable of detecting?


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Jason H.
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Otto Piechowski]
      #5534562 - 11/22/12 10:32 PM

Quote:

What is the SAM designed to detect?

What is the SAM capable of detecting?




Here's a link to info on SAM.



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StarWars
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Jason H.]
      #5534666 - 11/23/12 12:19 AM


Breaking News!!


Curiosity found some debris from the Mars Global Surveyor Orbiter..


Case Closed....


Good night Chet. Good night David.....






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Andy Taylor
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Radom]
      #5534829 - 11/23/12 03:44 AM

Quote:

8 legs and green guts squished between the treads ....




Aww! I was hoping for tentacles.


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Mister T
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Andy Taylor]
      #5535114 - 11/23/12 09:35 AM

Squids have Tentacles

Octopi have Eighticles


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BillFerris
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Mister T]
      #5535340 - 11/23/12 11:58 AM

Quote:

8 legs and green guts squished between the treads ....
watch where you going bub!!




To paraphrase one of the great lines from John Carpenter's The Thing, I dunno what's in the sand, but it's weird and hacked off, whatever it is.

Bill in Flag


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Footbag
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: BillFerris]
      #5535829 - 11/23/12 04:26 PM

OK. Pure speculation here, so take it FWIW...
The experiment was with the SAM, so best case scenario, they discovered a microbe. More realistically, it is either basic organic molecules or methane. I'm thinking it is methane, and here's why... The SAM did it's first test and kept the partial sample for further testing. But it's now on the move.

I remember reading that in the past when they got potential methane in a sample, they decided to let the sample air out in the atmosphere and the methane disappeared. I'm thinking this is what they are doing right now. Seeing if the methane dissipates.

If it doesn't dissipate, then I believe they will announce the discovery of methane.

Had they discovered an organinc molecule, they wouldn't have moved the rover. They probably would've wanted to test the soil around the original sample.


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InterStellarGuy
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Footbag]
      #5535844 - 11/23/12 04:35 PM

Well it looks like JPL is throwing cold water on this even before it's announced:
here



"JPL spokesman Guy Webster made just this point today in an e-mail to TIME: “As for history books, the whole mission is for the history books,” he wrote. That’s not to say he rules out the possibility of truly big news. “It won’t be earthshaking,” he said in a later phone call, “but it will be interesting.”

Read more: http://science.time.com/2012/11/20/a-mars-announcement-for-the-history-books/...


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Qwickdraw
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: InterStellarGuy]
      #5536681 - 11/24/12 06:24 AM

To me the absence of any biological trace is just as important and is "historical"

I know it may be anti climatic to many but the implications are never the less just as profound.


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Rick Woods
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: InterStellarGuy]
      #5538114 - 11/25/12 12:37 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

This makes no sense. If they can't tell us yet then what is the point in coming out and saying they have something even?




I agree completely. Now it has to be really big or there is going to be Martian egg on some faces.




egg-zactly. At this point I am expecting something related to life on Mars, an something beyond just finding organic compounds in Martian soil, (organics have been found in meteors etc...so fining them on Mars to me wouldn't be that historic), anything short of that, to me anyway, will be a let down.




The yolk's on us. I'm betting Curiosity and Opportunity collided.


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Qwickdraw
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5538329 - 11/25/12 07:15 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

This makes no sense. If they can't tell us yet then what is the point in coming out and saying they have something even?




I agree completely. Now it has to be really big or there is going to be Martian egg on some faces.




egg-zactly. At this point I am expecting something related to life on Mars, an something beyond just finding organic compounds in Martian soil, (organics have been found in meteors etc...so fining them on Mars to me wouldn't be that historic), anything short of that, to me anyway, will be a let down.




The yolk's on us. I'm betting Curiosity and Opportunity collided.




First stoplight on Mars scheduled for launch in 2015


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StarWars
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Qwickdraw]
      #5538656 - 11/25/12 12:28 PM Attachment (20 downloads)






Curiosity found the Sky Crane.... And it's in perfect shape!!

JPL will post on Ebay next week...


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InterStellarGuy
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: StarWars]
      #5540885 - 11/26/12 07:38 PM

More water throwing:
"This is going to be a disappointment," said Chris McKay, a NASA space scientist at Ames Research Center at Moffett Field, Calif. "The press description of the

SAM results as 'earthshaking' is, in my view, an unfortunate exaggeration. We have not (yet) found anything in SAM that was not already known from previous missions: Phoenix and Viking."


http://www.space.com/18626-nasa-mars-rover-secret-discovery-speculation.html


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Jason H.
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: InterStellarGuy]
      #5541005 - 11/26/12 08:42 PM

One may recall
"Experiments prompted by a 2008 surprise from NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander suggest that soil examined by NASA's Viking Mars landers in 1976 may have contained carbon-based chemical building blocks of life"

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/news/phx20100803.html

So I guess it comes down to what folks think "organic" means. Organic compound, water, peroxide, whatever, it's not alive or dancing-with-the-gangnam-bieber-minecraft, so most people won't give a _________ (except the few .)

Jason W. Higley


Quote:

More water throwing:
"This is going to be a disappointment," said Chris McKay, a NASA space scientist at Ames Research Center at Moffett Field, Calif. "The press description of the

SAM results as 'earthshaking' is, in my view, an unfortunate exaggeration. We have not (yet) found anything in SAM that was not already known from previous missions: Phoenix and Viking."


http://www.space.com/18626-nasa-mars-rover-secret-discovery-speculation.html




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Rick Woods
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Jason H.]
      #5541334 - 11/26/12 11:39 PM

Quote:

One may recall
"Experiments prompted by a 2008 surprise from NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander suggest that soil examined by NASA's Viking Mars landers in 1976 may have contained carbon-based chemical building blocks of life"

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/news/phx20100803.html

So I guess it comes down to what folks think "organic" means. Organic compound, water, peroxide, whatever, it's not alive or dancing-with-the-gangnam-bieber-minecraft, so most people won't give a _________ (except the few .)





That announcement was prefaced by a big mysterious teaser, just like this. And, when the actual finding was released, it was an absolute nuclear explosion; a real game changer.
It's strange, how few people took notice then, and how few remember it now. 30 years of cynical dogma cast into ruins, and almost no one paid attention.


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Qwickdraw
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Footbag]
      #5541574 - 11/27/12 06:58 AM

Quote:

OK. Pure speculation here, so take it FWIW...
The experiment was with the SAM, so best case scenario, they discovered a microbe. More realistically, it is either basic organic molecules or methane. I'm thinking it is methane, and here's why... The SAM did it's first test and kept the partial sample for further testing. But it's now on the move.

I remember reading that in the past when they got potential methane in a sample, they decided to let the sample air out in the atmosphere and the methane disappeared. I'm thinking this is what they are doing right now. Seeing if the methane dissipates.

If it doesn't dissipate, then I believe they will announce the discovery of methane.

Had they discovered an organinc molecule, they wouldn't have moved the rover. They probably would've wanted to test the soil around the original sample.




Trace methane at the level of several parts per billion have already been known to exist in the Martian atmosphere. At this point, I would assume finding trace in the soil would be expected and no surprise. It is currently unknown whether the Methane is from a geological source by an abiotic processes or the result of methanogenesis by Living micro organisms. In either case, Curiosity is able to make measurements that distinguish between different isotopologues of methane and determine more precisely which process or combination of processes is the source.


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simpleisbetter
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5541632 - 11/27/12 08:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:

One may recall
"Experiments prompted by a 2008 surprise from NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander suggest that soil examined by NASA's Viking Mars landers in 1976 may have contained carbon-based chemical building blocks of life"

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/news/phx20100803.html

So I guess it comes down to what folks think "organic" means. Organic compound, water, peroxide, whatever, it's not alive or dancing-with-the-gangnam-bieber-minecraft, so most people won't give a _________ (except the few .)





That announcement was prefaced by a big mysterious teaser, just like this. And, when the actual finding was released, it was an absolute nuclear explosion; a real game changer.
It's strange, how few people took notice then, and how few remember it now. 30 years of cynical dogma cast into ruins, and almost no one paid attention.




Meh... A nuclear explosion and real game changer for what? That those compounds and materials exist there? It doesn't prove anything concrete, other than they're there. Just like this announcement, the press, and to a lesser extent NASA are doing nothing more than sensationalizing.


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Rick Woods
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: simpleisbetter]
      #5541992 - 11/27/12 12:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

One may recall
"Experiments prompted by a 2008 surprise from NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander suggest that soil examined by NASA's Viking Mars landers in 1976 may have contained carbon-based chemical building blocks of life"

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/news/phx20100803.html

So I guess it comes down to what folks think "organic" means. Organic compound, water, peroxide, whatever, it's not alive or dancing-with-the-gangnam-bieber-minecraft, so most people won't give a _________ (except the few .)





That announcement was prefaced by a big mysterious teaser, just like this. And, when the actual finding was released, it was an absolute nuclear explosion; a real game changer.
It's strange, how few people took notice then, and how few remember it now. 30 years of cynical dogma cast into ruins, and almost no one paid attention.




Meh... A nuclear explosion and real game changer for what? That those compounds and materials exist there? It doesn't prove anything concrete, other than they're there. Just like this announcement, the press, and to a lesser extent NASA are doing nothing more than sensationalizing.




I think you're talking about something else.
I'm referring to the discovery of perchlorates in the Martian soil by Phoenix. These have the property of destroying organic materials when heated to temperatures far less than those used by the Viking experiments to prepare their samples. For over 36 years, the failure of the GCMS experiment to detect organics (after such heating of the samples) has been used to shut the book on the Viking discovery of biologic activity. No organics, no life, right? Whoops!... They destroyed the organics before they tested for them.

I call that a game-changing discovery. I wish the science from the Phoenix probe would be published in one place.


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simpleisbetter
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5542038 - 11/27/12 12:37 PM

Actually no Rick, I was talking about that. It is a discovery of the realization that those tests couldn't be conducted, but it didn't conclusively prove or lead to proving anything beyond that observation, one way or the other. That's why I find it as anti-climatic as all the other announcements. Sorry for the tone of my reply, but wasn't feeling too good when I got up this morning, and as stated, I'm way beyond tired of the scientific community creating these sensational announcements that come off in the end as nothing more than Geraldo Rivera and Al Capone's vault...

Edited by simpleisbetter (11/27/12 12:41 PM)


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dickbill
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: simpleisbetter]
      #5542220 - 11/27/12 02:18 PM

But there must be some organics on Mars, from comets or asteroids at least.
Also, meteorit ALH 84001 contained organics:
"...Several tests for organic material have been performed on the meteorite and amino acids and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) have been found. The debate over whether the organic molecules in the meteorite are in fact of exobiologic origin or are due to abiotic processes on Mars or contamination from the contact with Antarctic ice on Earth is still ongoing..."

Any asteroid containing organics falling straight into the polar cap would be burry deep and in ideal conditions to preserve the organics in dry ice (low temperature, no oxydizers and no radiations or UV). Since Mars had ice at every latitute in its past, that could have happened a lot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALH84001


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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: dickbill]
      #5543401 - 11/28/12 08:32 AM

Well here it is:

A week ago NASA came out with an announcement that they may have discovered something on Mars:



John Grotzinger, the principal investigator for the Curiosity mission, spoke with NPR and caused a serious commotion because of this quote:



Grotzinger says they recently put a soil sample in SAM, and the analysis shows something remarkable. "This data is gonna be one for the history books. It's looking really good," he says.



He also cautioned that it would take a few weeks for them to examine everything and be sure the big discovery was real.





Today NASA came out with a statement that said:



NASA Social Media Manager Veronica McGregor to explain that the whole thing was really just a really big misunderstanding. "What Grotzinger was actually trying to convey is that Curiosity’s data over her entire two-year mission will further our knowledge of Mars more than ever before, making it a historical mission,"





Do you smell something!!!



Sounds like they are trying to cover up what they found, made a mistake of talking about it before the Feds took control of it.



I guess we will never know what they found.


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simpleisbetter
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: D_talley]
      #5543452 - 11/28/12 09:19 AM

Yep, I hear Geraldo's looking for an assistant...

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star drop
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: D_talley]
      #5543624 - 11/28/12 10:56 AM

Quote:

Do you smell something!!!



Sounds like they are trying to cover up what they found, made a mistake of talking about it before the Feds took control of it.



I guess we will never know what they found.



Martian dogs don't cover their droppings.


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epee
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: star drop]
      #5543774 - 11/28/12 12:29 PM

"...a false alarm caused by Earthly contamination from Bigfoot droppings...."

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InterStellarGuy
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: D_talley]
      #5543778 - 11/28/12 12:32 PM

There is no X-Files style conspiracy or coverup at play here if that is what you are implying. All this results from some journalist overhyping a quote into something that wasn't.

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D_talley
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: InterStellarGuy]
      #5543838 - 11/28/12 12:51 PM

Quote:

There is no X-Files style conspiracy or coverup at play here if that is what you are implying. All this results from some journalist overhyping a quote into something that wasn't.




Grotzinger is the principal investigator for the mission. As a professional, for him to come out with the first quote means he used the years of experience he has, the knowledge of the mission and the tests being conducted to make the statement. His quote is very specific about a result from a specific test in the mission. He also said that he was waiting for another test to confirm the results. Very clear and no media hype there. Yes the media loved it and everyone was spun up but Grotzinger was very clear about what he was talking about.

The quote by the media manager is something you hear them say as the spacecraft launches, not anything to do with what Grotzinger is working on or spoke about. Clearly a bad coverup. No retraction from Grotzinger yet..


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InterStellarGuy
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: D_talley]
      #5543858 - 11/28/12 01:01 PM

HE didn't come out with the quote. NPR did. There is no conspiracy.
NPR interviewed him and they came out with the quote. He himself came out with NOTHING.


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moynihan
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: InterStellarGuy]
      #5543865 - 11/28/12 01:07 PM

The original NPR Interview that aired on 11/20/2012

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Joad
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: moynihan]
      #5543918 - 11/28/12 01:41 PM

I've read the Slatest version of the "retraction," and I'm afraid that one thing only is clear: scientists shouldn't chat informally with reporters. Doesn't matter what the truth of the situation is now: Grotzinger has created a situation that is most unfortunate and cannot be fixed. Personally, I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but given the current atmosphere I also think it would be much better if NASA folks would just be more careful in what they say.

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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: InterStellarGuy]
      #5543920 - 11/28/12 01:42 PM

Quote:

HE didn't come out with the quote. NPR did. There is no conspiracy.
NPR interviewed him and they came out with the quote. He himself came out with NOTHING.




So are you saying that NPR made up the entire exchange and quotes with the lead investigator for this mission?

If so then we need to take NPR to task for implying that there was an anouncement to be made at a later date about a discovery.


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simpleisbetter
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: D_talley]
      #5543935 - 11/28/12 01:51 PM

Well I for one have never put anymore into what NPR says than ANY other news source, and often actually put less in NPR than even AP. The implication/accusation here is that the reporter "embellished" the information to make it sound like he had more of a story than he had. The great majority of the press are no better than the National Enquirer, spinning articles to make a "better" story and throwing the truth out the door, just spend some time reading CNN's website.

Add to that the NASA rep who if I'm reading correctly is not assigned to the Public Affairs office, so technically isn't in a position to release authorized public statements. And he was speaking on something he knew(knows) nothing about because all the data isn't yet in, let alone the interpretation of that data. Talk about getting the cart before the horse, or in this case the horse's behind in front of it's brain.

Edited by simpleisbetter (11/28/12 01:58 PM)


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D_talley
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: simpleisbetter]
      #5543946 - 11/28/12 02:01 PM

Quote:

Well I for one have never put anymore into what NPR says than ANY other news source, and often actually put less in NPR than even AP. The implication/accusation here is that the reporter "embellished" the information to make it sound like he had more of a story than he had. The great majority of the mainstream press these days are no better than the Natl Enquirer, spinning articles to make a "better" story and throwing the truth out the door, just spend some time reading CNN's website.

Add to that the NASA rep who if I'm reading correctly not assigned to the Public Affairs office so not in a position to release public statements or info. And he was speaking on something he knew(knows) nothing about because all the data isn't yet in, let alone the interpretation of that data. Talk about getting the cart before the horse, or in this case the horse's behind in front of it's brain.




I agree that the news media's main goal is to increase their readership, causing all twisting of the news and facts.

But with NASA's history of bad press, you would think NASA would have in place a requirement for the news media to contact their public relations office before they interview any staff and staff needs to clear with the public relations office any announcements.


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moynihan
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: D_talley]
      #5543998 - 11/28/12 02:33 PM

Quote:

Quote:

HE didn't come out with the quote. NPR did. There is no conspiracy.
NPR interviewed him and they came out with the quote. He himself came out with NOTHING.




So are you saying that NPR made up the entire exchange and quotes with the lead investigator for this mission?

If so then we need to take NPR to task for implying that there was an anouncement to be made at a later date about a discovery.




You can listen to/read the NPR story via the link in my post above (#5543865).

The scientist did say "...one for the history books". The NPR reporter story did no embellishment. But anything heard on NPR Morning Edition/All things Considered (the NPR am/pm news shows) is often fodder for the spin/speculation of others, given the their reputation in journalism. As was stated somewhere above the one for the history books...was an unfortunate choice of words for the lay audience and the commercial newstainment sector.
My take:
I have no guess on the refered "event". But, the NPR reporter has guest hosted the Friday Talk of The Nation Science Friday (TON/SYFRI) show. It is possible that the NASA guy actually knows the reporter. And, on TON/SYFRI a new, highest resolution scan by some new probe giving a new unprecdented detailed data dump might be referred to as one for the etc. without anyone freaking out.

Edited by moynihan (11/28/12 02:35 PM)


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InterStellarGuy
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: D_talley]
      #5544004 - 11/28/12 02:38 PM

Quote:

Quote:

HE didn't come out with the quote. NPR did. There is no conspiracy.
NPR interviewed him and they came out with the quote. He himself came out with NOTHING.




So are you saying that NPR made up the entire exchange and quotes with the lead investigator for this mission?

If so then we need to take NPR to task for implying that there was an anouncement to be made at a later date about a discovery.





No, I am saying they quote mined him.

You, on the other hand, seem to be implying that the federal govt is trying to coverup information about Mars. Occams Razor would do well here.


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7331Peg
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: D_talley]
      #5544005 - 11/28/12 02:39 PM

"We're getting data from SAM as we sit here and speak, and the data looks really interesting," -- that's all John Grotzinger said. If you heard him during the first press conferences after Curiosity landed, you know he's very careful about choosing his words. You'll notice he didn't say earth-shaking or revolutionary, which were phrases I saw in some of the media articles about this.

Although he did say: "This data is gonna be one for the history books. It's looking really good," -- which may have been a poor choice of words because of its vagueness, but it's hardly a promise of a major discovery.

Way too much hype from a lot of people who are understandably hungry for some sensational news from Mars.

This ain't it. Time to go onto something else.

I hear Walmart is about to open a store on lake front property on Titan.

Wonder if they offer free shipping.


John


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moynihan
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: 7331Peg]
      #5544014 - 11/28/12 02:46 PM

Quote:

I hear Walmart is about to open a store on lake front property on Titan. Wonder if they offer free shipping.




You really will have to obey the no smoking rules in that store, well, and outside it for that matter...


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Rick Woods
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: simpleisbetter]
      #5544742 - 11/28/12 10:46 PM

Quote:

Actually no Rick, I was talking about that. It is a discovery of the realization that those tests couldn't be conducted, but it didn't conclusively prove or lead to proving anything beyond that observation, one way or the other. That's why I find it as anti-climatic as all the other announcements. Sorry for the tone of my reply, but wasn't feeling too good when I got up this morning, and as stated, I'm way beyond tired of the scientific community creating these sensational announcements that come off in the end as nothing more than Geraldo Rivera and Al Capone's vault...




Well, I hear you there. It's the boy who cried "Wolf". When they actually find those ancient ruins or whatever, nobody will pay attention.

And I agree, the perchlorate discovery doesn't prove anything. But, what it does do is invalidate the negative Viking GCMS results which were used as the primary argument to refute the consistantly positive biological results of Gil Levin's Labeled Release experiment. Dr. Levin has been fighting an uphill battle, pretty much alone, on this issue for over 36 years.

NASA and the scientific community at large can no longer issue the blanket statement that "Viking did not discover any evidence of life". In fact, it did. (That's "evidence", not "proof".) The whole question is open again.


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Dave Mitsky
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5544929 - 11/29/12 02:12 AM

The final segment on the NBC Nightly News was about the Curiosity find on Wednesday night.

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nightly-news/50002282/#50002282

Dave Mitsky


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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: moynihan]
      #5544973 - 11/29/12 05:00 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I hear Walmart is about to open a store on lake front property on Titan. Wonder if they offer free shipping.




You really will have to obey the no smoking rules in that store, well, and outside it for that matter...




No oxygen = no big Boom !


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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Qwickdraw]
      #5546753 - 11/30/12 07:51 AM

Well, much about almost nothing...

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Joad
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Traveler]
      #5547069 - 11/30/12 12:06 PM

Good find, Traveler. Thanks for the link.

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dickbill
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Joad]
      #5547146 - 11/30/12 12:46 PM

Since organics seem to be present on Mercury, finding some on Mars cannot be 'huge' anywway. The opposite would be surprising (methane, comets, nearby asteroids, ALH84001...)

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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: simpleisbetter]
      #5547173 - 11/30/12 12:59 PM

Historical finds are important for renewed funding

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simpleisbetter
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: dickbill]
      #5547251 - 11/30/12 01:40 PM

Quote:

Since organics seem to be present on Mercury, finding some on Mars cannot be 'huge' anywway. The opposite would be surprising (methane, comets, nearby asteroids, ALH84001...)




Quite right, and what prompted my original question I removed on the Mercury thread; I'll see if I can put my thought down better here.

It seems organics might be more common than first thought. However, it also seems that their presence doesn't necessarily increase the likelihood of life. It's just an indication of one of the many building blocks and requirements to be met. Heck, if just the presence of such meant an increased likelihood, then Jupiter with all its methane should be teeming with life following that logic. But I don't believe we'll be finding any there...

It got me pondering, how life is thought to develop, in a scientific definition, has further deepened because we're shown, once again, that there are many things we realize today we don't know or understand, than we thought we didn't know yesterday. Makes the whole process of defining and explaining life even bigger. Sorry if I sound a bit "Donald Rumsfeld" with the knowns and unknowns but I don't know how to get my abstract thoughts to words better than that.


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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Traveler]
      #5547255 - 11/30/12 01:45 PM

Quote:

Well, much about almost nothing...




If you follow "Curiosity Rover" on twitter (https://twitter.com/MarsCuriosity/with_replies) there is some interesting back and forth in some tweets yesterday , 11/29/2012. Good stuff, especially the last one. This really is one for the history books, but not because of anything actually found on Mars.

"Everybody, chill. After careful analysis, there are no Martian organics in recent samples." [along with a link to the article in the quoted link.]

"Why the wait? We're moving at the speed of science. My team needed time to analyze the data"

"Turn that frown upside down: We're fewer than four months into a multi-year mission. We've only just begun!"

"@astrolisa Simple: the data was being analyzed. An announcement at that time- either way- would have been premature. "

"@pmetschan @astrolisa Scientists were excited to have their 1st soil sample data from SAM & the instrument was performing *beautifully* "

"@JohnnyManc No little green men. No Martian organics, either "

Edited by sirchz (11/30/12 01:46 PM)


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dickbill
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: sirchz]
      #5547294 - 11/30/12 02:05 PM

I can't get into the tweeter thing to ask question. I'd feel to be answered like a ret... ahem, 'uneducated'. I guess I am too old.
I have tons of questions though. Like 'why a 3-5% difference in radiation between night and day, ONLY, when the entire day-side of the planet is shielding the other side from the sun's radiations...'. Well, so i listened to the latest NASA podcast about this, which never adressed this point, despite some good, and no so good questions from journalists. Like one, what was her question already? ah yes, what would it feel to be standing on Mars with just a T-shirt....duh, yeyo! this is so totally not appropriate!


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Qwickdraw
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Traveler]
      #5548430 - 12/01/12 08:55 AM

Quote:

Well, much about almost nothing...




Well, again, In my opinion not finding any evidence of life is just as historical and profound as finding it. The fact that so far, no evidence of life has been found on what is undoubtedly the closest model planet of Earth ever discovered either in our solar system or out could be very telling of the complexities required for life to exist elsewhere.
My thoughts always have been that Earth is a far more of a unique gem than thought and that subtleties in galactic position, solar characteristics, orbital characteristics, wobble, mass, companions, etc. may make it a one in a trillion planet.


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BillFerris
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Qwickdraw]
      #5548659 - 12/01/12 11:57 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Well, much about almost nothing...




Well, again, In my opinion not finding any evidence of life is just as historical and profound as finding it. The fact that so far, no evidence of life has been found on what is undoubtedly the closest model planet of Earth ever discovered either in our solar system or out could be very telling of the complexities required for life to exist elsewhere.
My thoughts always have been that Earth is a far more of a unique gem than thought and that subtleties in galactic position, solar characteristics, orbital characteristics, wobble, mass, companions, etc. may make it a one in a trillion planet.




Which begs the question, how easy--or difficult--is it to remotely search for and find the organic building blocks of life?

As reported in a Space.com article in August of this year, "Chris McKay, an astrobiologist at NASA’s Ames Research Center and Rafael Navarro-Gonzalez of the Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México have worked in Chile’s barren Atacama Desert and Antarctica for years, and have found organic material (and microbes) everywhere they’ve looked. However, when they tested samples with an instrument comparable to the Viking GC-MS, the instrument was not able to detect organics — a result, they hypothesized, of the interaction at high temperatures of the organics and oxidizing agents in the soil of both Earth and Mars."

As one reads more about the challenges involved in remote detection of organics, it's clear there is no consensus on just how to go about that task in a manner that will be 100% conclusive. The suite of scientific tools on Curiosity are generations removed from those launched with Viking so, one presumes a negative result would be a strong indication that the Martian soil is extremely hostile--at best--to organics. Even if that is the end result, I still want to send human scientists to Mars to explore, test and employ good old fashioned creative thinking skills in following up the results.

Bill in Flag


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Joad
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Qwickdraw]
      #5548676 - 12/01/12 12:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Well, much about almost nothing...




Well, again, In my opinion not finding any evidence of life is just as historical and profound as finding it. The fact that so far, no evidence of life has been found on what is undoubtedly the closest model planet of Earth ever discovered either in our solar system or out could be very telling of the complexities required for life to exist elsewhere.
My thoughts always have been that Earth is a far more of a unique gem than thought and that subtleties in galactic position, solar characteristics, orbital characteristics, wobble, mass, companions, etc. may make it a one in a trillion planet.




Actually, I share this point of view. But what has brought me over to the "earth can't be unique" side is the realization that with somewhere around 100 billion galaxies in the known universe, the odds are in favor of a lot of life even at a one in a trillion planet rate of occurrence.


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deSitter
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Joad]
      #5548684 - 12/01/12 12:13 PM

I've been extremely busy lately and have not kept up. Can someone give a heads up on what's going on? thanks

-drl


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Joad
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: deSitter]
      #5548702 - 12/01/12 12:24 PM

Short version:

In an informal interview/chat with an NPR reporter, Grotzinger indicated that something big was about to be announced with respect to the SAM analysis on Curiosity. Since then there has been a lot of back tracking on the part of NASA/JPL. So it looks like next Monday's press conference will not include a big announcement.

Though of course it still could. We all have to wait and see.


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moynihan
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Joad]
      #5548736 - 12/01/12 12:42 PM

As far as this system goes (and we do not have the last word on Mars, nor a ruling out of fossilized microbes on Mars); we still have Europa and Titan to check out.

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Jason H.
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Jason H.]
      #5551984 - 12/03/12 12:40 PM

I'm watching the news conference, they found organics (but are rightly conservatively hedging on the source of it) water with Deuterium, the D:H ratio being 5 times higher than Earth's, possible "perchlorate-like compound" (but it could be something else.) Abiotic or not, IMO it's still interesting if it pans out, since this was a "global sample" (i.e. well-mixed and un-special sand) and they think they're in a "river bed". During the Q&A, they hinted that the carbon was "not like the stuff that falls to Earth."

Jason H.

Edited by Jason H. (12/03/12 06:24 PM)


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rdandrea
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Jason H.]
      #5552360 - 12/03/12 04:25 PM

The press release says, "We have no definitive detection of Martian organics at this point, but we will keep looking in the diverse environments of Gale Crater."

So it sounds like the organics are iffy too.


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Jason H.
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: rdandrea]
      #5552516 - 12/03/12 06:05 PM

Quote:

The press release says, "We have no definitive detection of Martian organics at this point, but we will keep looking in the diverse environments of Gale Crater."

So it sounds like the organics are iffy too.




Please note "Martian", there are organics, the question (as I mentioned) is the source of it, however, one panelist specifically indicated that the carbon didn't seem to have the makeup of meteoric carbon we receive on Earth.

One must see the video of the press conference, they start off with "no definitive", that's science talk for "I'm covering my butt until more data comes in, because I almost ruined my career by getting stoked in front of a reporter." More specifically, they were worried that even after flushing the sample cup with Mar's soil, that perhaps the found organics were brought from Earth. If you just read the press release, you missed the real deal. Just watch Grotzinger and speaker panel, they obviously were traumatized by the media hullaballou and were tamping down the enthusiasm by saying this is going to play out over a loooonnnng time (AND RIGHTLY SO!)

Most importantly, observe the reporters questions regarding the organics, Grotzinger indicated that they aren't nearly at the stage of determining if these found organics are of biological origin (but there are organics!) See the video! (wherever it is? I saw it live on USTREAM.)

Jason H.

Edited by Jason H. (12/03/12 06:21 PM)


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Joad
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Jason H.]
      #5552544 - 12/03/12 06:25 PM

What I've read is that a "scoop of sandy soil analyzed by Curiosity's sophisticated chemistry laboratory contained water and a mix of chemicals, but not complex carbon-based molecules considered essential for life."

So, while I recognize that anything with carbon in it is organic (in the terms of chemistry), there are organics and there are organics, and, so far, the report is that this is nothing to get excited about.


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Jason H.
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Reged: 11/23/07

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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Joad]
      #5552568 - 12/03/12 06:36 PM

Quote:

What I've read is that a "scoop of sandy soil analyzed by Curiosity's sophisticated chemistry laboratory contained water and a mix of chemicals, but not complex carbon-based molecules considered essential for life."

So, while I recognize that anything with carbon in it is organic (in the terms of chemistry), there are organics and there are organics, and, so far, the report is that this is nothing to get excited about.




[EDIT: This is what I should have written in the first place. Sorry Joad!)

1. One may find the video provides additional information that may not be in written media?

2. It's exciting (to me) that the Deuterium ratio is so high, and they hope to find "old water" to see the Deuterium to Hydrogen ratio of that, which will permit a good estimate of the amount of water in the ancient atmosphere and possibly it's surface water (i.e. how much water has gone into space.)

3. It's interesting (to me) that they may be able to do some very interesting science (versus having a dry site with no organics.)

Just wait for more data, this story isn't over (per them.)


(Joad is logical, I was not in my first response to his post.)


Jason H.


Edited by Jason H. (12/03/12 10:45 PM)


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shawnhar
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Jason H.]
      #5552665 - 12/03/12 07:34 PM

Press conference here:
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/27478475


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Joad
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: shawnhar]
      #5552747 - 12/03/12 08:18 PM

I assure you that I am not looking for popular cultural figures.

And please do not speculate on the reactions of other people, or judge them. I could speculate on your reactions but refrain from doing so.


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rdandrea
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Jason H.]
      #5552785 - 12/03/12 08:40 PM

Quote:

3. How anybody can say that finding organic chemicals at this site and confirming high levels of current water at this particular site




NASA was specifically noncommital about "organics." See my post above from the press release.

And in what form was the water? A mineral like gypsum would account for both the sulfur and the water reported, yet there's no mineralogical analysis.

As yet, there is no "there" there. I remain hopeful but unconvinced.


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Jason H.
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Reged: 11/23/07

Loc: Central Florida
Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: rdandrea]
      #5553140 - 12/03/12 11:56 PM

Grotzinger said during the conference (which can be viewed at the link provided by Shawn above) "...The instrument SAM is working perfectly well, it has made this detection of organic compounds, simple organic compounds, we just simply don't know if they're indigenous to Mars or not, and so you know it's going to take us some time to work through that, I know there's a lot of interest in that, and uhhh, but the point is, is that Curiosity's middle name is patience, and uhh we we all have to have a healthy dose of that..."

Then, I feel bad for him as he had to comment on the historical find thingy, but later on Liz Wilson of Chemical and Engineering News asks
"Back to the simple organics, if you do determine that the carbon in these compounds is indigenous to Mars, umm, how do you go about telling if its biologic or abiotic, I mean would you look at carbon isotope ratios, or things like that?"

and panelist Paul Mahaffy responded "Yes, absolutely we'll be looking at carbon isotope ratios..."

Sooooo, I'm not saying they're biotic (or that it's even interesting to others), I'm just saying that they found organics, and have not ruled out biology (or anything else) as the source. I'm interested anyway.

Jason H.


Quote:

Quote:

3. How anybody can say that finding organic chemicals at this site and confirming high levels of current water at this particular site




NASA was specifically noncommital about "organics." See my post above from the press release.

And in what form was the water? A mineral like gypsum would account for both the sulfur and the water reported, yet there's no mineralogical analysis.

As yet, there is no "there" there. I remain hopeful but unconvinced.




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StarWars
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Jason H.]
      #5553207 - 12/04/12 12:57 AM

So the big deal was over Carbon... Which could indicate organic matter...

Or might be contamination from the sky crane rocket motors.


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Rick Woods
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: StarWars]
      #5553796 - 12/04/12 11:27 AM

It is a big deal. It's just the sort of thing they went there to look for.

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