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CharlesW
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 11/02/12

Loc: Chula Vista & Indio, CA
String theory and gravity
#5617289 - 01/11/13 01:30 PM

I'm not a physisist so please take it easy on me. I've been watching the Sky At Night series on Youtube and they had a short discussion about string theory and gravity. It was the, "Our gravity might not be as strong as we think it should be because it is leaking into adjoining dimensions," argument. Assuming that this true for a moment and our gravity is leaking into other universes, what is leaking back our way? Or are we the "king of dimensions" and the sun rotates around the Earth, and we don't get anything from those other dimensions/universes?

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Pess
(Title)

Reged: 09/12/07

Loc: Toledo, Ohio
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: CharlesW]
#5617319 - 01/11/13 01:53 PM

There is a thought that dark matter may be gravity from other branes (a brane is kinda of a flat plane as opposed to a long string. ie: it is a string with length & width but no height whereas a string just has the length dimension).

This idea comes from M-theory and, may be, testable. If high energy particle collisions are found to yield less mass than the starting particles, it is theorized that this extra mass was knocked off 'our' brane into another dimension.

Pesse (In which case the Dimension of Cats would be very happy with all the extra string) Mist

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scopethis
Postmaster

Reged: 05/30/08

Loc: Kingman, Ks
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: Pess]
#5617472 - 01/11/13 03:35 PM

I think string theory is wrong cause a string can only be stretched to a limit before it snaps..then the Universe will begin to collapse....

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deSitter
Still in Old School

Reged: 12/09/04

Re: String theory and gravity [Re: CharlesW]
#5617498 - 01/11/13 03:55 PM

Quote:

I'm not a physisist so please take it easy on me. I've been watching the Sky At Night series on Youtube and they had a short discussion about string theory and gravity. It was the, "Our gravity might not be as strong as we think it should be because it is leaking into adjoining dimensions," argument. Assuming that this true for a moment and our gravity is leaking into other universes, what is leaking back our way? Or are we the "king of dimensions" and the sun rotates around the Earth, and we don't get anything from those other dimensions/universes?

And I thought it was just my new diet..

String theory is said to be a theory of gravity because it contains a spin-2 boson. Since the spin-2 boson is not really gravity (it's just the spin-2 boson), all such claims by string theorists are nonsense, and in fact you will never see them cook up a set of equations that reproduce even Newtonian gravity, much less GR.

-drl

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mich_al
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 05/10/09

Loc: Rural central lower Michigan ...
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: deSitter]
#5617929 - 01/11/13 08:14 PM

brane == membrane

just sayin

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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: mich_al]
#5618193 - 01/11/13 11:05 PM

Probably at this point better thought of as a meme-brane.

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Pess
(Title)

Reged: 09/12/07

Loc: Toledo, Ohio
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: scopethis]
#5623044 - 01/14/13 04:42 PM

Quote:

I think string theory is wrong cause a string can only be stretched to a limit before it snaps..then the Universe will begin to collapse....

Pesse (Collapse? or unravel?) Mist

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scopethis
Postmaster

Reged: 05/30/08

Loc: Kingman, Ks
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: Pess]
#5625171 - 01/15/13 08:47 PM

that indicates that the Universe is nothing more than a big ball of twine....

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Ira
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 08/22/10

Loc: Mitzpe Ramon, Israel
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: scopethis]
#5628859 - 01/17/13 08:47 PM

Call the plumber. I can't afford to loose any more mass from my brain.

/Ira

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Pess
(Title)

Reged: 09/12/07

Loc: Toledo, Ohio
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: scopethis]
#5630296 - 01/18/13 05:34 PM

Quote:

that indicates that the Universe is nothing more than a big ball of twine....

I found an alternate universe!

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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: Pess]
#5630752 - 01/18/13 10:47 PM

Well, don't just string us along!

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deSitter
Still in Old School

Reged: 12/09/04

Re: String theory and gravity [Re: llanitedave]
#5631363 - 01/19/13 11:18 AM

Do they have good Chicago-style pizza? You can't find that anywhere these days!

-drl

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Skip
Starlifter Driver

Reged: 01/23/08

Loc: Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: deSitter]
#5631366 - 01/19/13 11:20 AM

Are you implying that Chicago pizzas are stringy, or that they have lots of gravity?

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deSitter
Still in Old School

Reged: 12/09/04

Re: String theory and gravity [Re: Skip]
#5631376 - 01/19/13 11:25 AM

If the cheese is right, both!

-drl

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scopethis
Postmaster

Reged: 05/30/08

Loc: Kingman, Ks
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: deSitter]
#5631884 - 01/19/13 05:08 PM

I do believe Pess is onto something...the alternative Universe twine ball is unraveling and seeping into our Universe..that outta make for a good scientific "yarn"...

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Postmaster

Reged: 04/28/03

Loc: Atlanta, GA
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: scopethis]
#5632401 - 01/19/13 11:00 PM

Now you're just trying to string us along...

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scopethis
Postmaster

Reged: 05/30/08

Loc: Kingman, Ks
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: Jarad]
#5633300 - 01/20/13 02:07 PM

it's that term "fabric" of the Universe that is undefined..is it string, netting, some sort of mesh or webbing, or perhaps some large old discarded pelt from that neighboring Universe...

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EJN
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 11/01/05

Loc: 53 miles west of Venus
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: scopethis]
#5633450 - 01/20/13 03:48 PM

Quote:

it's that term "fabric" of the Universe that is undefined..is it string, netting, some sort of mesh or webbing, or perhaps some large old discarded pelt from that neighboring Universe...

The fabric of the universe is 60% cotton and 40% polyester, and should only be
washed using the "permanent press" setting.

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Pess
(Title)

Reged: 09/12/07

Loc: Toledo, Ohio
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: EJN]
#5634548 - 01/21/13 09:22 AM

I left the Universe on the High-Heat setting too long.

Pesse (Scientists are set to announce that the Universe is now contracting.) Mist

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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: Pess]
#5634888 - 01/21/13 12:41 PM

Was it an accident, or do you have a scorched universe strategy?

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scopethis
Postmaster

Reged: 05/30/08

Loc: Kingman, Ks
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: llanitedave]
#5635435 - 01/21/13 05:46 PM

I've also read that that the Universe is contracting..this is caused by heat loss and a colder environment..things always shrink when they get cold...

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Napersky
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 01/27/10

Loc: Chicagoland
Good book explaining the mystery of String Theory [Re: scopethis]
#5636843 - 01/22/13 12:52 PM

http://www.amazon.com/Not-Even-Wrong-Failure-Physical/dp/0465092764/ref=sr_1_...

by Peter Woit

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Pess
(Title)

Reged: 09/12/07

Loc: Toledo, Ohio
Re: Good book explaining the mystery of String Theory [Re: Napersky]
#5638601 - 01/23/13 10:30 AM

Quote:

http://www.amazon.com/Not-Even-Wrong-Failure-Physical/dp/0465092764/ref=sr_1_...

by Peter Woit

That book was written in 2007'. Since then there have been suggestions that, at least, some small aspects of Superstring theory can be testable.

One problem is that we are talking at size levels for strings that makes measurements at distances less than what the Heisenberg uncertainty principle would allow.

According to Quantum theory we can't be precise enough to take a measurement of a single string...

However, in order for the general category of Superstring theories (and there are a lot!) something called Super-symmetry' must exist. Which, in very simple terms, means that every particle must have a matching particle with opposite spin.

So far, we know that this isn't the universe 'today'. Quarks have a preferential 'spin' and their counterpart is not found. However, these original supersymmetric quarks could have a preferential spin and selectively survived the original Universe after the big bang prior to which they were in equal numbers.

OK, that was a mouthful. But what does it have to do with String Theory? Well, the Higss Bosun was found at a weird (unnatural) energy level. If Supersymmetry was correct, then we should find a range of Higgs particles at different energy levels.

These Supersymmetric version of the Higgs would be evidence that, perhaps, there was something to Supersymmetry and, by extension, would be a supporting argument for String Theory.

Pesse (Higgs? Higgs? Who has the Higgs?) Mist

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jkaiser
member

Reged: 01/07/13

Loc: Wood River Junction, Rhode Isl...
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: llanitedave]
#5653674 - 01/31/13 06:32 AM

Should have been dry cleaned only

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HiggsBoson
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 02/21/07

Loc: Kal-li-fornia
Re: Good book explaining the mystery of String Theory [Re: Pess]
#5657039 - 02/01/13 07:51 PM

Quote:

Pesse (Higgs? Higgs? Who has the Higgs?) Mist

If you need some I have extras...

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Pess
(Title)

Reged: 09/12/07

Loc: Toledo, Ohio
Re: Good book explaining the mystery of String Theory [Re: HiggsBoson]
#5657084 - 02/01/13 08:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Pesse (Higgs? Higgs? Who has the Higgs?) Mist

If you need some I have extras...

pesse (I know I have a bunch all around here. Just can't find them.) Mist

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deSitter
Still in Old School

Reged: 12/09/04

Re: Good book explaining the mystery of String Theory [Re: Pess]
#5657251 - 02/01/13 10:16 PM

Let's restate the facts.

1) There is a school of thought which equates the spin-2 boson with gravity. As Einstein conceived it, and as everybody actually calculates with it, gravity is the effect of curvature in a non-flat manifold.

2) The facts of group theory mean that if gravity is going to be a force like the others, given its properties, it has to be a spin-2 boson.

3) The reverse idea then presents itself - can the theory of a spin-2 boson express itself as geometry, in the original sense of Einstein, in which gravity and geometry were co-extensive?

I open the floor to questions.

-drl

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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: Good book explaining the mystery of String Theory [Re: deSitter]
#5657271 - 02/01/13 10:26 PM

Space fields to accompany force fields?

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deSitter
Still in Old School

Reged: 12/09/04

Re: Good book explaining the mystery of String Theory [Re: llanitedave]
#5657323 - 02/01/13 10:53 PM

Dualistic ab initio

-drl

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Wordsmith

Reged: 03/22/05

Re: Good book explaining the mystery of String Theory [Re: deSitter]
#5657406 - 02/01/13 11:50 PM

All I know is that a lot of physicists appear to be sitting on the edge of their seats awaiting the eventual restart of the LHC, because they are looking to the LHC either to confirm or refute Super-symmetry.

From what I can make out, there is a fair amount of nervousness that Super-symmetry will not be confirmed (it hasn't yet) and everyone will be back to square one.

But no amount of speculation will resolve the matter. We must be patient and wait for the LHC to get back to work.

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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: Good book explaining the mystery of String Theory [Re: deSitter]
#5658003 - 02/02/13 11:59 AM

Quote:

Dualistic ab initio

-drl

Well, that was easy for YOU to say!

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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: Good book explaining the mystery of String Theory [Re: Joad]
#5658008 - 02/02/13 12:01 PM

Quote:

All I know is that a lot of physicists appear to be sitting on the edge of their seats awaiting the eventual restart of the LHC, because they are looking to the LHC either to confirm or refute Super-symmetry.

From what I can make out, there is a fair amount of nervousness that Super-symmetry will not be confirmed (it hasn't yet) and everyone will be back to square one.

But no amount of speculation will resolve the matter. We must be patient and wait for the LHC to get back to work.

The physicists may be patient, but those of us straining our eyes from the upper deck rarely are.

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StarWars
Mr. Postmaster Man

Reged: 11/26/03

Loc: At the Gym >Spudtastic<
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: mich_al]
#5659064 - 02/02/13 10:51 PM

Quote:

brane == membrane

just sayin

According to PBS The Elegant Universe and Fabric of the cosmos host Brian Greene the Brane is a Universe. Each universe will have it's own String Theory (DNA) and when two universes collide. The result will be a Big Bang!

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deSitter
Still in Old School

Reged: 12/09/04

Re: String theory and gravity [Re: StarWars]
#5660108 - 02/03/13 02:34 PM

When stated in bare form this way, the reek of pseudoscience is so apparent - I know StarWars it's not your fault - just repeating what you've heard - but it's just embarrassing to have such things stated in the name of science. Having spent literally a lifetime thinking about these things, I cannot describe the sense of cultural debasement involved.

-drl

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EJN
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 11/01/05

Loc: 53 miles west of Venus
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: StarWars]

..

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Pess
(Title)

Reged: 09/12/07

Loc: Toledo, Ohio
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: EJN]
#5661783 - 02/04/13 01:28 PM

Quote:

You know those 'sanitized for your protection' strips motels put across toilets?

They are the number one cause of head lacerations in dogs!

Pesse (Public service announcement) Mist

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scopethis
Postmaster

Reged: 05/30/08

Loc: Kingman, Ks
Re: String theory and gravity [Re: Pess]
#5674507 - 02/11/13 05:30 PM

they can also leave backward lettering on one's buttock...

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Napersky
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 01/27/10

Loc: Chicagoland
Re: String theory and gravity *DELETED* [Re: scopethis]
#5730995 - 03/13/13 07:50 PM

Post deleted by Napersky

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