CounterWeight
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Did anyone here get in on this?
#5663566 - 02/05/13 01:06 PM
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or any of the others(unsure here)... I don't think I would qualify.
ridiculous that a requirement would be (and we are talking general public???
"some experience in observing with large (i.e. >3-m) telescopes; "
I WISH!
Community Access to the 6.5-m Telescope of the MMT Observatory
I was researching something else and came upon it, so am just curious.
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Mister T
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/01/08
Loc: Upstate NY
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: CounterWeight]
#5663669 - 02/05/13 02:26 PM
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I'm thinking they won't be responding to people who want to see the star they "own" from the star registry... 
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Ira
Carpal Tunnel
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Loc: Mitzpe Ramon, Israel
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: Mister T]
#5664316 - 02/05/13 09:04 PM
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Ira
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: Ira]
#5664326 - 02/05/13 09:12 PM
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I checked out the link. This is really cool. Perhaps a forum should be opened where people can kick around ideas for a project to propose, kind of like using CN to crowd source citizen science research ideas. There could be a Nobel prize lurking here! 
/Ira
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CounterWeight
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: Ira]
#5664441 - 02/05/13 10:34 PM
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On this link there appear to be others, need to look near the bottom of the web page...
And here yet another?
Edited by CounterWeight (02/05/13 10:40 PM)
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Jarad
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: Ira]
#5664759 - 02/06/13 07:58 AM
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I checked out the link. This is really cool. Perhaps a forum should be opened where people can kick around ideas for a project to propose, kind of like using CN to crowd source citizen science research ideas. There could be a Nobel prize lurking here!
/Ira
Yes, we should open a forum somewhere. One about science and astronomy. Where could we find something like that?
I know I've seen one of those around here somewhere... 
Seriously, if you guys have some ideas, let's kick them around. It would be totally cool if a CN proposal was accepted. Or even if you just want some extra critical eyes to look over your personal proposal, I think a number of us here would be happy to help.
Jarad
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Ira
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/22/10
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: Jarad]
#5664986 - 02/06/13 10:58 AM
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Let's keep it civil, Jarad. I see no forum specifically for discussing citizen science projects. Is that really such a ridiculous thing to dedicate a forum to?
/Ira
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Jarad
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: Ira]
#5665085 - 02/06/13 11:57 AM
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Like I said, we can discuss those ideas here. If the number of posts overwhelms us in SASE, then we can open a separate forum.
Jarad
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Ira
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: Jarad]
#5665194 - 02/06/13 12:51 PM
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No need for the sarcasm. That's all you had to say.
/Ira
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deSitter
Still in Old School
Reged: 12/09/04
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: Ira]
#5665277 - 02/06/13 01:35 PM
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Get spectra of that strange double-galaxy to the lower left of M104 - see any big picture of it and look in the lower left corner for two tiny identical face-on spirals side by side, touching each other - these have a huge infrared signature and are mostly unstudied.
-drl
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Jarad
Postmaster
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: deSitter]
#5665321 - 02/06/13 01:54 PM
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Ira -
I wasn't trying for sarcasm, I was trying for playfulness. The graemlins were intended to convey that, but it's always tough with internet posts where you lose facial cues, tone of voice, etc. No offense was intended.
DeSitter - let's run with that idea and see where it leads. Can we flesh it out a bit? Are we looking for specific absorption lines? How bright are these two galaxies? How much observing time will we need to get adequate spectra?
Jarad
Edited by Jarad (02/06/13 02:37 PM)
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Ira
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: Jarad]
#5665482 - 02/06/13 03:17 PM
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Anyone here have experience writing grant proposals who wants to help with this?
/Ira
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Ira
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: Jarad]
#5665486 - 02/06/13 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Ira -
I wasn't trying for sarcasm, I was trying for playfulness. The graemlins were intended to convey that, but it's always tough with internet posts where you lose facial cues, tone of voice, etc. No offense was intended.
DeSitter - let's run with that idea and see where it leads. Can we flesh it out a bit? Are we looking for specific absorption lines? How bright are these two galaxies? How much observing time will we need to get adequate spectra?
Jarad
Sorry if I was overly sensitive.
/Ira
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Ira
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: Jarad]
#5665489 - 02/06/13 03:19 PM
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If we are seriously going to pursue this it should have a fresh start under its own appropriate subject line. Sounds exciting!
/Ira
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Neutrino?
sage
Reged: 12/14/09
Loc: Wasatch
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: Ira]
#5665686 - 02/06/13 05:19 PM
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I don't believe this is meant for any public person to apply, but I see no harm in checking. I am fairly certain they mean professionals not associated with the UofA or HSCA, as they own the telescope.
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CounterWeight
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: Neutrino?]
#5666356 - 02/07/13 01:16 AM
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I think if we came up with anything novel and interesting, it may get some traction, like some application of lattice theory or signal theory in galaxy morphology interactions. Applying Ramanajuns edit(meant Theta or mock theta?) functions to mass density distributions and asymptotes over area, notably lobed planetary (nebula) aspect to suspected star type? I can think of many other topics, but the initial legwork is the scope and detectors and how to advantage that with the available detectors. Mathmanship always helps, you cant just say irregular or non-linear anymore.
Edited by CounterWeight (02/07/13 01:37 AM)
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Mister T
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/01/08
Loc: Upstate NY
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: CounterWeight]
#5666611 - 02/07/13 08:15 AM
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"A comprehensive spectroscopic analysis of Lunar surface reflection in the 510 nm wavelengths in order to detect any evidence of temperature-mediated coagulation of fermented fatty acids specific to dairy products"
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Rick Woods
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: Jarad]
#5666979 - 02/07/13 12:10 PM
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Quote:
I wasn't trying for sarcasm, I was trying for playfulness.
Yep, that gets me in trouble all the time. 
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CounterWeight
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: Rick Woods]
#5666984 - 02/07/13 12:13 PM
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"A comprehensive spectroscopic analysis of Lunar surface reflection in the 510 nm wavelengths in order to detect any evidence of temperature-mediated coagulation of fermented fatty acids specific to dairy products"
They might think we are trying to "milk it"?
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deSitter
Still in Old School
Reged: 12/09/04
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: Jarad]
#5667076 - 02/07/13 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Ira -
I wasn't trying for sarcasm, I was trying for playfulness. The graemlins were intended to convey that, but it's always tough with internet posts where you lose facial cues, tone of voice, etc. No offense was intended.
DeSitter - let's run with that idea and see where it leads. Can we flesh it out a bit? Are we looking for specific absorption lines? How bright are these two galaxies? How much observing time will we need to get adequate spectra?
Jarad
They seem quite bright to my eyes - at least the same surface brightness as M104 itself. I would look for spectra characteristic of AGN and quasars, e.g. see here
http://cas.sdss.org/dr5/en/proj/challenges/quasars/
I suspect very high redshift. I'll try to pull some SIMBAD information for it. I think it has been at least cataloged.
-drl
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deSitter
Still in Old School
Reged: 12/09/04
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: deSitter]
#5667084 - 02/07/13 01:21 PM
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They are visible here, along the bottom edge about 1/4 the distance from left to right side. There is another dim red companion in the same area, about the same size.
http://imgsrc.hubblesite.org/hu/db/images/hs-2003-28-a-print.jpg
The region of M104 is teeming with odd looking objects.
-drl
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deSitter
Still in Old School
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: deSitter]
#5667105 - 02/07/13 01:34 PM
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You can see it here, near the upper right corner of the image on the right - dim blue double galaxy..
http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/sim-id?Ident=[BAZ97]%202-21
We need to get accurate coordinates for it.
-drl
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deSitter
Still in Old School
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: deSitter]
#5667142 - 02/07/13 01:57 PM
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Near as I can make out
12:40:07.28 -11:40:01.0
The nearest object in Aladdin is this star:
+Star+2483&NbIdent=1]http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/sim-id?Ident=[RZ20...
I cannot find a catalog entry for the galaxy.
The galaxy is very prominent in UV. Very strange that it is not cataloged. That's what all this is for, right? Do something undone?
-drl
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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
Reged: 09/26/05
Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: Rick Woods]
#5667865 - 02/07/13 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
I wasn't trying for sarcasm, I was trying for playfulness.
Yep, that gets me in trouble all the time.
I just go ahead and stick with sarcasm, that way it's more likely to get interpreted as playfulness.
Nah -- that doesn't work either.
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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
Reged: 09/26/05
Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: deSitter]
#5667866 - 02/07/13 09:08 PM
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Near as I can make out
12:40:07.28 -11:40:01.0
The nearest object in Aladdin is this star:
+Star+2483&NbIdent=1]http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/sim-id?Ident=[RZ20...
I cannot find a catalog entry for the galaxy.
The galaxy is very prominent in UV. Very strange that it is not cataloged. That's what all this is for, right? Do something undone?
-drl
I agree that's an interesting pair.
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deSitter
Still in Old School
Reged: 12/09/04
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: llanitedave]
#5667891 - 02/07/13 09:24 PM
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You can see how prominent they are also in the infrared here:
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap070121.html
IMO this pair is one of the most interesting objects I've ever seen, and it's not even cataloged. I predict it will show an AGN spectrum at high redshift. And if it does, you cannot say this is across the universe - this is a low surface brightness dwarf pair that are clearly part of some phenomenon that involves both equally - this is not a random encounter, but a fission of a galactic nucleus. The third member of the group is also extremely interesting, because it shows the bare nucleus glowing deep red with a ring-like structure around it and another nearby nuclear object.
-drl
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CounterWeight
Postmaster
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: deSitter]
#5667943 - 02/07/13 10:03 PM
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My ST3 lists several LEDA galaxies (some without parameters) but nothing lines up with that pair (and it sure does like as you describe as two near face on). Makes me wonder if just getting a good survey designation of the area might be worth it? maybe just from existing Hubble data?
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deSitter
Still in Old School
Reged: 12/09/04
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: CounterWeight]
#5667965 - 02/07/13 10:16 PM
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Let's go big. We even have a galaxy expert here - can't remember his handle off hand. Let's get a spectrum!
-drl
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Carl Coker
member
Reged: 07/30/12
Loc: Ohio
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: deSitter]
#5669256 - 02/08/13 03:15 PM
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I really don't think there's anything particularly noteworthy about them, honestly. It looks to me like your fairly standard merger of two spirals. They show up in everything from mid IR to X-ray. They are fairly UV bright, indicating that their redshift cannot be very high; if it was, GALEX probably wouldn't be able to see them well due to self-extinction in the Lyman bands. The X-ray detection indicates probable AGN activity, which would be expected in a merger.
Additionally, Hubble shows the galaxies as fairly blue in some regions, indicating a high rate of star formation. This is consistent with their mid-IR emission (lots of dust associated with star formation and chemical evolution) and the probable merger activity. I don't see any reason to believe there is any sort of relativistic ejection behavior of large-scale masses, which would be required for any part of the spectrum to show a high redshift. I would instead expect the far UV and X-ray spectra especially to show a blueshift of some kind, since both spirals are nearly face-on and the AGN jets would be probably be pointed towards us.
If someone feels inclined to write a proposal, it might get accepted, but not on a six meter like the MMT. Your best bet would be to request time on a one or two meter instrument, considering how bright the targets are.
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scopethis
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Reged: 05/30/08
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Re: Did anyone here get in on this?
[Re: Carl Coker]
#5674489 - 02/11/13 05:21 PM
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what ARE the names/classifications of those two galaxies??
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