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scottk
sage


Reged: 08/29/09

Loc: Tennessee
If aliens had a telescope so powerful....
      #5912857 - 06/10/13 11:36 AM

that they could see a dime on a sidewalk on Earth from another galaxy, would it be a reflector or a refractor?

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Ravenous
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/14/09

Loc: UK
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: scottk]
      #5912869 - 06/10/13 11:41 AM

Let's just say that its aperture would be so big, we could see it ourselves from here. (Well, almost.)

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Qwickdraw
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/03/12

Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Ravenous]
      #5912874 - 06/10/13 11:44 AM

At that magnification it would be some type of quantum view scope or something we have not even imagined yet.

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Rudra
super member


Reged: 07/02/10

Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Qwickdraw]
      #5913010 - 06/10/13 12:45 PM

So assuming that making such a telescope is possible and that they have it and they are looking through it, as I am typing this message. Would they be seeing me typing this post on the www.cloudynights.com? No. If they are located within 200 light years from our location, they might be seeing the Earth as it was in 1813. They would still be seeing us using horse drawn carriages, with little railway transportation, pristine locals with little or no pollution and of course pitch dark skies

If the civilization having such a telescope was located about 2000+ light years away, then perhaps they will see pyramids of Egypt being built. In Greece, they would have seen Socrates, Plato, Aristotal etc indulging in academic discussions on philosophy, maths and astronomy and perhaps smiling that we consider Earth as the center of the Universe.

Edited by Rudra (06/10/13 12:50 PM)


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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
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Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Rudra]
      #5913028 - 06/10/13 12:52 PM

It would be an orbital interferometer in a wide orbit around their star. Getting telescope time would probably require a major grant, and oodles of red tape.

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shawnhar
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/25/10

Loc: Knoxville, TN
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Rudra]
      #5913042 - 06/10/13 01:02 PM

Perhaps a generated black hole at a certain distance, with another one used as a corrective lens. Don't think a refractor's gonna cut it.

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deSitter
Still in Old School


Reged: 12/09/04

Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: shawnhar]
      #5913086 - 06/10/13 01:28 PM

In principle a large enough optical scope would reveal distant details as small as you like. Pointing it would be an interesting problem in relativistic rigid body concepts. And it would have some gnarly coma.

-drl


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scottk
sage


Reged: 08/29/09

Loc: Tennessee
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: deSitter]
      #5913095 - 06/10/13 01:32 PM

I suppose it would have its own gravity with things orbiting it. Which could cause a problem with meteors and all.

Edited by scottk (06/10/13 01:37 PM)


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Rick Woods
Postmaster
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Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: shawnhar]
      #5913410 - 06/10/13 03:46 PM

Quote:

Perhaps a generated black hole at a certain distance, with another one used as a corrective lens.




That's what I was going to say, a gravitational lens telescope of some kind.


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scopethis
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/30/08

Loc: Kingman, Ks
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: scottk]
      #5913421 - 06/10/13 03:49 PM

and by mistake, someone pointed it at their "Sun" and light from the eyepiece toasted their planet..

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Qwickdraw
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/03/12

Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: scopethis]
      #5913584 - 06/10/13 04:57 PM

Quote:

and by mistake, someone pointed it at their "Sun" and light from the eyepiece toasted their planet..




HAHAHA I was just going to say that and got to your post.


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Pess
(Title)
*****

Reged: 09/12/07

Loc: Toledo, Ohio
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5913607 - 06/10/13 05:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Perhaps a generated black hole at a certain distance, with another one used as a corrective lens.




That's what I was going to say, a gravitational lens telescope of some kind.




That would work.

They could swing around in a ship and look in different directions and come back & forward to focus.

Of course, if that had that space potential, why not just fly the ship to whatever they wanted to look at?

But if they lacked long distance space flight capability BUT had the ability to generate locally intense gravitational fields......

Pesse (ACME portable gravitational field generator..caution: do not operate near planets!) Mist


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Mister T
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Pess]
      #5913620 - 06/10/13 05:25 PM

And would it have the magnification printed on the box??

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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Mister T]
      #5913640 - 06/10/13 05:34 PM

$49.95

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scottk
sage


Reged: 08/29/09

Loc: Tennessee
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Mister T]
      #5913679 - 06/10/13 05:56 PM

Yes. It could be pushed all the way to like 700x.



Edited by scottk (06/10/13 06:06 PM)


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Ira
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/22/10

Loc: Mitzpe Ramon, Israel
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: scottk]
      #5913784 - 06/10/13 06:55 PM

It would be a PRISM telescope, and NSA already has one.

/Ira


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Ira
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 08/22/10

Loc: Mitzpe Ramon, Israel
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Ravenous]
      #5913792 - 06/10/13 07:01 PM

Quote:

Let's just say that its aperture would be so big, we could see it ourselves from here. (Well, almost.)




Assuming it is a single instrument, how large would the objective be?

/Ira


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Jarad
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/28/03

Loc: Atlanta, GA
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Ira]
      #5913828 - 06/10/13 07:22 PM

All I have to say is that climbing up and down the ladder to collimate is a real pain on my 10 light year f4.5...



Jarad


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shawnhar
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/25/10

Loc: Knoxville, TN
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Ira]
      #5913832 - 06/10/13 07:25 PM

The VLA reaches an angular resolution of about 0.2 seconds of arc, it is effectively a 22 mile diameter telescope.
Perfect theoretical resolution of a 10 meter scope, ignoring diffraction is 0.01 arc sec, you need millionths of an arsec to resolve a planet in orbit around another star in another galaxy?
5.9 billion km to Pluto, double that and maybe? Math ain't my strength.
An array would be feasable, but not a single instrument.
Maybe a quantum tunneling telescope with uncertainty optics?


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brentwood
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/04/05

Loc: BC Canada
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: shawnhar]
      #5913953 - 06/10/13 08:34 PM

....that even from a little over 2000 light years ago they could see in high details what was happening on Earth. If they also had sub-space radio and we had it too, we could settle once and for all some long standing differences of opinion!

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Ira
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/22/10

Loc: Mitzpe Ramon, Israel
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: brentwood]
      #5914073 - 06/10/13 09:23 PM

It's this many miles in diameter: 1,830,808,080
to get a resolution of .000000000001 arc seconds.

Just a bit farther than the distance from earth to Saturn.
Deffinitely doable.

And No, you can't put it on a Vixen PortaMount.


/Ira

Edited by Ira (06/10/13 09:25 PM)


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deSitter
Still in Old School


Reged: 12/09/04

Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Ira]
      #5914122 - 06/10/13 09:47 PM

Quote:

It's this many miles in diameter: 1,830,808,080
to get a resolution of .000000000001 arc seconds.

Just a bit farther than the distance from earth to Saturn.
Deffinitely doable.

And No, you can't put it on a Vixen PortaMount.


/Ira




nice!!

-drl


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Mister T
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: deSitter]
      #5914578 - 06/11/13 06:55 AM

and their would be "purists" who wouldn't look thru it without a Televue EP

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dyslexic nam
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/28/08

Loc: PEI, Canada
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Mister T]
      #5914591 - 06/11/13 07:30 AM

Explore Scientific has them listed but they have been on backorder for about 2 years now.

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Ravenous
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/14/09

Loc: UK
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Mister T]
      #5914623 - 06/11/13 08:10 AM

Quote:

and their would be "purists" who wouldn't look thru it without a Televue EP



Little Green Men prefer Big Green Eyepieces...


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Ira
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/22/10

Loc: Mitzpe Ramon, Israel
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Ravenous]
      #5914791 - 06/11/13 10:37 AM

It would need one heck of a Parcorr!

/Ira


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Rick Woods
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Ravenous]
      #5914793 - 06/11/13 10:38 AM

Maybe, but Mxyp@lgt Scientific is coming on strong in the LGM community...

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Ira
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/22/10

Loc: Mitzpe Ramon, Israel
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5914797 - 06/11/13 10:40 AM

Makes the James Webb Telescope seem kind of pathetic. Dumb earthlings.

/Ira


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scottk
sage


Reged: 08/29/09

Loc: Tennessee
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Mister T]
      #5914941 - 06/11/13 12:07 PM

Imagine the view with a 5x barlow.

Edited by scottk (06/11/13 12:08 PM)


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scopethis
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/30/08

Loc: Kingman, Ks
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: scottk]
      #5915201 - 06/11/13 02:46 PM

these scopes were sold in the Edmund Catalogs back in the 1950s...eyepieces included

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Classic8
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/12/06

Loc: Naperville, IL, USA
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: scopethis]
      #5915799 - 06/11/13 08:34 PM

I'd suggest they get an 8" dob. :-)

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jchaller
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 05/29/08

Loc: Tenino, WA.
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Classic8]
      #5915952 - 06/11/13 10:13 PM

I would hope they don't have a telescope powerful enough to see my neighbor follow his dog around the yard carring a scoup and a plastic bag - they might get the wrong idea.

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WaterMasterAdministrator
Moat Keeper
*****

Reged: 02/17/10

Loc: Southeast Idaho, USA
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Classic8]
      #5916009 - 06/11/13 10:38 PM

Quote:

I'd suggest they get an 8" dob. :-)




+1


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TVG
member


Reged: 05/03/12

Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Classic8]
      #5916719 - 06/12/13 11:02 AM

Let's hope they don't use a laser pointer as a finder, otherwise ....poof.....whoops

Todd


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Mister T
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: TVG]
      #5917089 - 06/12/13 02:20 PM

I am going to blow up the Earth, it obstructs my view of Venus...

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Jarad
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/28/03

Loc: Atlanta, GA
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Mister T]
      #5917269 - 06/12/13 04:04 PM

Wait a few hours - it's a dawn object right now.



Jarad


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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Mister T]
      #5917558 - 06/12/13 07:19 PM

Quote:

I am going to blow up the Earth, it obstructs my view of Venus...




I think intergalactic law requires you to post a prominent notice in a public place, first -- like the restroom of a bar.


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Mister T
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: llanitedave]
      #5918347 - 06/13/13 08:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I am going to blow up the Earth, it obstructs my view of Venus...




I think intergalactic law requires you to post a prominent notice in a public place, first -- like the restroom of a bar.




I did better than that, I announced it on Saturday morning cartoons!

I would bet that 95%+ of the Aerospace sector has seen it!!



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Rick Woods
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: llanitedave]
      #5918750 - 06/13/13 01:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I am going to blow up the Earth, it obstructs my view of Venus...




I think intergalactic law requires you to post a prominent notice in a public place, first -- like the restroom of a bar.




I believe the Vogons did that about 50 years ago. Something about a locked cabinet in a basement with "Beware of Tiger" posted on the locked door...


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Mister T
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5918990 - 06/13/13 03:25 PM

do the Vogons pre-date Marvi the Martian?

if so, my apologies!


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scottk
sage


Reged: 08/29/09

Loc: Tennessee
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Mister T]
      #5919003 - 06/13/13 03:33 PM

Article on future giant telescopes:

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/3308111.html

Lol... a 100 meter telescope will be designed by the European Southern Observatory. It will be called the OWL (OverWhelmingly Large telescope).

Edited by scottk (06/13/13 03:47 PM)


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Mister T
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: scottk]
      #5919336 - 06/13/13 06:53 PM

And then there is the YGBFKMT....

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scottk
sage


Reged: 08/29/09

Loc: Tennessee
Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: Rudra]
      #5922273 - 06/15/13 01:18 PM

If they just happened to be 65 million light years away, they may have a snapshot of a Tyrannosaurus Rex getting blown off its feet by the asteroid.

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hm insulators
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/22/07

Re: If aliens had a telescope so powerful.... new [Re: jchaller]
      #5929384 - 06/19/13 02:20 PM

Quote:

I would hope they don't have a telescope powerful enough to see my neighbor follow his dog around the yard carring a scoup and a plastic bag - they might get the wrong idea.




I'm afraid what they might think if they see certain humans naked; the kind you usually don't see in certain magazines.

They'd either A: laugh themselves sick ("Hey, Gweeb, check this one out! ") or B: point a gamma-ray burster at Earth and FZZZZT!!!


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