Jack Frost
Gobbler's Knob
Reged: 06/23/04
Posts: 717
Loc: Manchester, UK
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Hi everyone
I currently have a Solarscope 50 which is giving fantastic views on the Sun. (Well, not recently, as it's been raining for a whole week!)
Now, I have a little bit of spare money and am considering converting my Solarscope 50 into a double stack, taking it from 0.7Å to 0.5Å. Does anyone have any experience of how the view would differ? I am looking to gain more surface detail, but don't want the image to be too dim.
Thanks all! 
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"This is one time where television really fails to capture the true excitement of a large squirrel predicting the weather"
DS Solarview 50
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1855
Loc: Virginia
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If Dan Schechter happens into the forum I think he would be able to help you. If memory serves, he has both an SV50 and an SF70 double stacked. You might want to try and PM him. Of course, you can also discuss this with Ken at Solarscope.
FWIW, if I could afford it right now, I would DS mine 
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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cocobolo
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/27/07
Posts: 1550
Loc: british columbia, canada
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Hi Jack: I was trying to find out the same thing myself. Did some looking and according to Coronado, when you double stack it improves the detail on the disk itself, at the cost of a slight reduction in the detail of the prominences. I wasn't able to turn up anything else, and was thinking of posting this same question here for the experts [Erika and Stephen] to try and help us with. Keith
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Erix
Toad Lily
Reged: 12/25/04
Posts: 22342
Loc: Ohio, USA
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Well I'm certainly not one of the experts around by any means. In fact far from it, but am trying to learn and help others during the process.
I have no experience with Solarscopes. But with Coronado scopes, doublestacking it will provide more disk detail. On the other hand, it will darken the limb detail. Having a higher aperture scope helps with this regard.
For example, with a PST, I can see limb detail pretty good. Double stacking it will make the disk detail much better, but I have a hard time seeing good limb detail then. So I prefer to take the extra filter back off for viewing the limb.
I've got a 60mm internally doublestacked Maxscope. It has ample aperture for me to see very impressive limb detail as well as disk detail. I've viewed through a single filtered 60mm Maxscope and the limb detail was better than my DS 60mm. On the other hand, my disk detail was more pronounced.
I hope this helps somewhat. With a 50mm scope, I would assume you'd have enough aperture to see an impressive amount of detail on both the limb and the disk.
In any case, with the doublestacked 60mm Coronado scopes, you would have a T-max to adjust the etalon for bandwidth depending on if you want to view the features on the disk or the limb.
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1855
Loc: Virginia
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Jack,
Sorry, I was thinking you wanted impressions from someone who owns a DS SV50 and both my Solarscopes are SS- but I can give you some general idea of what to expect with your scope. First, as Erika points out, you can expect a dimmer image overall but noticeable improvement in disk detail and contrast. You will lose some in terms of brightness of proms but in general this is a trade off most of us would accept given the detail in the disc you will gain.
If done correctly, however, a DS SV50 will give you the option of still using in SS mode.
The DS of the SV50 is a little involved as I understand it. I have communicated with Ken about DS for both my SF70 and SV50. Hopefully, the following recollection is still accurate.
The SV50 is an entire scope (unlike SF70) with an achromatic doublet. As you probably know, the optics are located in the filter/etalon assembly along with the ERF - the tube with focuser just contains the BF. Because both optics and ERF are in the filter, you just can't add a second etalon over the first (i.e., 2 ERFs) or use the current etalon over a new etalon without ERF (i.e., because of lenses).
As I recall, to DS Ken will remove ERF from your current filter containing the optics. A second filter (without optics) will be fitted with the ERF and this will serve as the outer etalon in your DS. If you want to use in single stack mode, I think the solution is for Ken to create a removable ERF, which you would then use with the primary filter that contains the doublet lens (i.e., the one you own now). The alternative is to just have it configured (non-swappable ERF) so that it works only in DS mode. I think I've got this right but Dan or others ? can confirm.
FWIW, when I queried Ken about which of my systems to DS, he certainly encouraged me to do so with the SF70 because of the brightness and resolution boost over a DS SV50. The SF70 contains the etalon and ERF (without lenses) so it can just be placed in front of a matched second filter without ERF for DS with any scope - much simpler than the SV50 situation.
I have owned a DS Coronado (PST) and it was quite dim but when dark adapted (not that easy to do of course) it was fine - also great for imaging. Your SV50 is comparable to the Coronado 60 with central obstruction in terms of brightness - or at least that is my impression. I suspect it would be plenty bright for visual in DS mode.
Hope that helps. Can't help but also attach a recent image of my SV50, which you almost never see in the forum - truly a thing of beauty!! Ok, maybe its an "eye of the beholder" thing.
Doug
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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cocobolo
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/27/07
Posts: 1550
Loc: british columbia, canada
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Thanks for your comments Erika, that pretty much confirms right to the letter what I read on a Coronado site. And can you tell me if, when you double stack a PST, is there any difference in the two filters, or are they identical?
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1855
Loc: Virginia
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The second filter for DS'ing a PST is an SM-40 and nothing like the internal etalon of the PST. It is a different story with the Solarmax 40 telescope, the SM-40 used for double stacking is the same as that on the front of the Solarmax 40 telescope.
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BYoesle
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 1115
Loc: Goldendale, WA USA
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Quote:
Can't help but also attach a recent image of my SV50, which you almost never see in the forum - truly a thing of beauty!!
Absolutely!
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Bob Yoesle 
You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars...
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Desiderata
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TerryC
super member
Reged: 04/04/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Reading, England
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Hi Jack,
I have a SV60 which I had double stacked.
Doug's description of the mod is correct.
When I got my scope back, Ken had changed the tube for my original filter from silver to black.
For my SV60, going to DS didn't reduce the brightness too much and prominences still looked clear and distinct.
I sent my SV60 back to the IoM via Ninian at Venturescope, which was a shortish drive for me but somewhat longer for you!
Ken & Ninian will be at AstroFest the weekend after next. May I strongly suggest you go down and see them there?
You can probably ship the scope directly to IoM?
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Solarscope SV60 DS
Takahashi FS-60C & Thousand Oaks WL filter
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1855
Loc: Virginia
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Very nice and "stealthy" looking Terry ! The black filters give it a decidedly Darth Vader look - I like it. However, you aren't helping me avoid DS'ing my SF70 by posting pictures like that. I guess resistance is futile ultimately. I'll definitely need to get it done well in advance of the next solarmax.....
I assume you had no choice but to stay with the original built-in BF? Ken told me that when I DS the SF70 he could provide an additional BF assembly that would brighten the image. My guess is that I would be happy with it as is so thanks for the report on image brightness with your DS 60.
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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TerryC
super member
Reged: 04/04/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Reading, England
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Yes I did get the choice of BF and Ken put the "Visual" one in rather than the "Imaging" one, ie the brighter one.
The change to black for my filter makes it look more homogenious (?).
The advantage of sending the scope back is that it gives Ken an opportunity to get everything properly matched.
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Solarscope SV60 DS
Takahashi FS-60C & Thousand Oaks WL filter
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1855
Loc: Virginia
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Interesting, I believe he implied to me (it was some time ago) that with my SV50 I would be limited to the existing BF. In thinking about it though, I'll bet he meant that swapping out one for the other would be impractical, i.e., when going from DS to SS mode with the SV50. With the SF70 it would be a simple matter of just swapping the BF assembly when setting up the scope.
Do you have the option of using in SS mode now or is your kit dedicated to DS as configured?
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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TerryC
super member
Reged: 04/04/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Reading, England
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I can use both modes.
I remove the front filter
I remove the ERF from the front filter and mount it on the back filter which is still on te scope of course.
A lot simpler thsn it sounds.
BTW When I got it back from IoM, it came in a new case which fitted all the bits including the new filter (all in the disassembled state)
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Solarscope SV60 DS
Takahashi FS-60C & Thousand Oaks WL filter
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1855
Loc: Virginia
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It does sound simple and I get it - your description fits with what I understood from Ken. But are you also swapping out the BF when you return to SS. If not, is the SS view now too bright?
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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TerryC
super member
Reged: 04/04/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Reading, England
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It is brighter but as far as I'm concerned, not too btight.
The BF is not user replacable in the SolarVue don't forget.
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Solarscope SV60 DS
Takahashi FS-60C & Thousand Oaks WL filter
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1855
Loc: Virginia
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Quote:
The BF is not user replacable in the SolarVue don't forget.
Yes, that was my understanding as well.
Thanks for filling in all the gaps for me Terry, it has been very useful. I guess it makes the most sense for me to just DS the SF70 as Ken suggested originally. All I need now are some more funds....
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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pjstoker
sage
Reged: 04/21/06
Posts: 439
Loc: So. Calif, USA
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Doug, with the Solarscope single stack 70mm filter I found it necessary to use the regular blocking filter. If you are going to use them DS, then I found that the photographic BF will give you the best view/images. I’ve use the Solarscope 50’s, 60,s and 70mm filters both single and double stacked with both blocking filters. I have a DS set of Solarscope 60’s and also both blocking filters. While I can use the photographic blocking filter with the SS 50’s and 60’s visually, I find as Terry mentioned it is a bit bright, and I prefer the regular blocking filter for visual use. However, the photographic BF is great for imaging with these filters because of the faster shutter speed. On the other hand, even a 1/1000 sec exposure with a SS 70mm filter and photographic BF wasn’t a fast enough shutter speed to prevent overexposure with a scope @ 480mm FL. But with that BF and the second 70mm filter, imaging is no problem and the views were some of the best I have ever seen. Sharp and even all the way across the disk, as well as well-defined prominences on the limb, and all in one view.
Here is a link to my set up. You will notice that Ken puts blue tape on the photographic BF to distinguish it from the regular BF.
http://home.earthlink.net/~pjstok/Wp_75_SolScope.html
Pat
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Patrick Stoker
http://home.earthlink.net/~pjstok/wp10_intro.htm
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1855
Loc: Virginia
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Thanks Pat. Seems to be an emerging consensus then that it will be best to have both the "visual" (standard) and "photographic" versions of the BF for a DS SF-70 and that the photographic version is best for both visual and imaging in DS mode. Thanks for the link..!
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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Jack Frost
Gobbler's Knob
Reged: 06/23/04
Posts: 717
Loc: Manchester, UK
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Thanks everyone! That's certainly given me plenty to think about.
Double-stacking the SV 50 means the cost would have been £4,700 in total, whereas the cost for a single SV 70 filter would be £4,275. So I can't decide whether to keep the SV 50 and double stack it, or sell it and buy the single SV 70, with the option to double stack later.
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"This is one time where television really fails to capture the true excitement of a large squirrel predicting the weather"
DS Solarview 50
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1855
Loc: Virginia
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Jack,
I went through the same decision making process a while back. I decided to get the SF70, evaluate it and then most likely sell off the SV50 to help fund the SF70 DS. Well, that was the plan at least. It turns out that the SF70 made me appreciate my SV50 even more.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I am not wowed by the SF70 because I am. What I'm saying is that I became really impressed by how well the SV50 performs against my new "reference standard", the SF70. I truly value the lightweight compact simplicity of the SV50 for visual observation at a moments notice. So, for now at least, I'm hesitant to part with the SV50 in order to help make the DS SF-70 happen. I'd like to try and hold onto the SV50 in any event.
Jack - I also have to say it once again. That focuser on your TMB is a real beauty!!
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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