Rick Woods
Postmaster
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 6268
Loc: Inner Solar System
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Hi all,
I'd like to get into a little bit of solar observing beyond my full-aperture filter, but I don't know the gear. For a while the PST was all the rage for affordable, quality observing. Is this still true? Or is there a comparable, maybe lower-cost alternative? My thought is to put a PST-sized solar scope in the finderscope bracket of another telescope. Is Lunt a better buy? Or someone else?
So, what do you all think? I have no particular observing agenda, beyond seeing the prominences and getting my money's worth.
Thanks in advance for any and all opinions!
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- Rick
14" LX200GPS
Dyslexics Untie!
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skyward_eyes
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/12/06
Posts: 2386
Loc: Arizona
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I believe the Lunt LS35 is getting over all better reviews as far as its views and build quality vs. a PST.
Here is a review on the Lunt 35
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5 Reflectors 3"-16"
www.skiesofarizona.webs.com
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Ralph Marantino
Postmaster
Reged: 05/01/05
Posts: 6350
Loc: Old Bridge, New Jersey
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I would and did go from PST to LUNT equipment.
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Lunt H-alpha LS100THa/B3400
Rockland Astronomy Club
Member BAA Solar Section
Central Appalachian Astronomy Club
Astronomical League
DSPST,PST & 70mm Coronado Cal K telescope.2.2A
Zeiss 2 inch prism diagonal&Zeiss Zoom EP
2inch APM Herschel Wedge in a 94mm F7 Brandon
14.5 inch f4.2 Starmaster Dob(Zambuto mirror)
TeleView Genisis SDF with 1000 Oaks Glass filter
Zeiss 63mm f13.5 refractor 1000 Oaks Glass filter
Itty Bitty Solar Radio Telescope.
LHRIES Lite Solar Spectrometer
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Rick Woods
Postmaster
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 6268
Loc: Inner Solar System
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The Lunt is 35mm vs. 40mm for the PST, roughly same price. Does that make a noticable difference?
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- Rick
14" LX200GPS
Dyslexics Untie!
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stephenramsden
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/17/07
Posts: 1640
Loc: Atlanta, GA--USA
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Rick, there are a million threads on here already with this same topic. I have a site that might interest you www.solarscopereviews.com
If you are thiking that you are going to be satisfied with a under $1000 solar scope for seeing prominences you are mistaken from any vendor.
Unfortunately, the actual usable for visual and photographic solar observing scopes start with the LUNT LS60THa and go up.
You should have $1500 in mind for a usable and dependable scope with accessories.
If you want the cheapest scope you can get and still be able to see some limited Halpha details, the market has a lot of used PST's out there for sale.
By the way, the actual etalon in the LUNT scope is 35mm while the etalon in the PST is 20mm. They are both made as cheaply as possible to have an under $600 scope on the market and both have serious limitations.
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Stephen W. Ramsden
Atlanta, GA--USA
NASA SOLAR SYSTEM AMBASSADOR
www.solarastrophotography.com
www.SolarScopeReviews.com
www.stephenramsden.com
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skyward_eyes
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/12/06
Posts: 2386
Loc: Arizona
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The PST and LS35 show proms nicely, there is a BIG jump when you get into the 60mm scopes though. The had a PST on long term loan and then I got my own Lunt 60 and the 60mm was FAR better at everything then the smaller solar scope. You dont need to spend $1500 to get a good view of the sun though. But the extra light gather power does make the views a lot nicer but its all about how much you are willing to spend.
If $600 is your limit get a Lunt 35Ha scope
If $1000 is your limit get the Lunt 60Ha scope.
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5 Reflectors 3"-16"
www.skiesofarizona.webs.com
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Mozhoven
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 884
Loc: Middletown, CT
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Is the visual improvement mainly due to the increase in aperture, or in other features like the filters.
In other words, would 20mm increase in aperture for a PST make it that much better? (i.e. Denkmeier upgrade)
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Jeremy Davis
Sculptor & Certified Binoviewer Addict (CBA)
Orion XT12i - 12" f/4.9 "Alfred E. Newtonian"
Wyorock Custom Crayford
Denk Standards w/Dual PxS
PST (w/the "Good" Gold Objective)
12x60 Oberwerk Binos
www.jdavisgallery.com
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molniyabeer
Confused and Asleep
Reged: 01/08/05
Posts: 2986
Loc: Central Coast, California
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I like my PST a lot and while I like the other scopes, too, I have not found the increase in image "wow" factor to be worth the price step to the 60s. Going up to the 90s is another story, but then so is the price hike!
I would like to have the extra brightness of the 60 vs. the 40 on my PST to help capture the fainter prom features. I've looked at the Denk upgrade but have not pulled the trigger yet.
So, it's not a 0.5 angstrom 90mm but I like my little PST and so have the couple hundred folks who have shared a view.
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Steve
16" Meade LightBridge (Beowulf)
Lunt 60/50 Double Stack w/ Pressure Tuner
10" Hardin DSH, StarMax 127mm Mak
Oberwerk 11 x 70 binocs
Four Winds Bar
Santa Maria Clear Sky Clock
Figueroa Mt Clear Sky Clock
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 2057
Loc: Virginia
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The PST sure put a big smile on a lot of newbie solar observer's faces - including a lot of folks who then got addicted and opened their wallets for more aperture and narrower bandpass. If you want to get your feet wet right now w/o breaking the bank, used PSTs are a deal that I would imagine is tough to beat - "sweet spots" and all. Just try and get one without "rust".
A PST will show you prominences just fine. Truth be told, it looks like prominences are pretty much all we are going to be seeing for a while and even those haven't exactly been all that spectacular for some time. It is still plenty of fun though and a PST will give you a taste at bargain H-alpha prices.
When old Sol gets angry again you can think about an upgrade..... 
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Hooville
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stephenramsden
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/17/07
Posts: 1640
Loc: Atlanta, GA--USA
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How about the mount, a decent set of eyepieces, a power source for the mount, a 2nd etalon, a carrying case, etc...
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Stephen W. Ramsden
Atlanta, GA--USA
NASA SOLAR SYSTEM AMBASSADOR
www.solarastrophotography.com
www.SolarScopeReviews.com
www.stephenramsden.com
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ragebot
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/26/05
Posts: 1721
Loc: Tallahassee, FL, USA
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Quote:
How about the mount, a decent set of eyepieces, a power source for the mount, a 2nd etalon, a carrying case, etc...
I see very few people get into HA observing as observing noobies. Most folks are like the OP and have at least one other OTA. The OP did say he wanted to basically use a PST (or maybe a Lunt 35) in place of the finder scope on his OTA. Most OTA's that could mount a finder scope the size of a PST would have a solid mount and more than one EP to observe with. I am not sure where the second etalon idea comes from, but DS is usually a later add on. Different folks have different ideas about carrying cases, but I have a couple of golf club bag carrying cases I bought at Goodwill for under $US25 that work just fine with some foam rubber (hypo alargenic (sp) mattress stuff) and bubble wrap to store OTAs.
The only accessory I deem "required" is silicate gel to deal with moisture when my toys are stored, but I do live in humid and sunny Florida.
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Meade ETX 90, Meade AR5, Orion ED80, Atlas GT, 8 in Newt, Coronado DS SM40, Garrett 10.5X70, Sigma SD10, SD14, Canon 1D2, Xti, Nikon CP4500, C-14
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 2057
Loc: Virginia
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...and a Sol Ranger of some sort. Of course, PST has it built in.
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Hooville
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skyward_eyes
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/12/06
Posts: 2386
Loc: Arizona
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I agree with Ragebot, the OP is pretty much set on what he needs to view. The double stack filter is pretty much personal preference and could be added anytime, I wouldnt put it on the list of must haves for starting out.
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5 Reflectors 3"-16"
www.skiesofarizona.webs.com
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Rick Woods
Postmaster
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 6268
Loc: Inner Solar System
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Yeah, I just want to be able to do some casual Ha viewing, see a little solar activity, etc without breaking the bank. But, I'm getting the impression that I'm going to need to spend a major wad of cash to get anything worth having!
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- Rick
14" LX200GPS
Dyslexics Untie!
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Mozhoven
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 884
Loc: Middletown, CT
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I really like what I see with my PST, even with a rusted filter (not the objective). I'm waiting on a PST corrector for my Denk binos and hope that two eyes will reveal more - or at least make viewing more comfortable.
I don't know about you but squinting causes me to actually loose detail ans subtlety due to the strain it causes. Maybe my binoviewer will be like a modest aperture increase? I know it is the case for my night viewing. I can see much more detail in most any object. Whether that's an illusion or not, I can't say - but I can feel it. Can anybody confirm this for the Sun?
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Jeremy Davis
Sculptor & Certified Binoviewer Addict (CBA)
Orion XT12i - 12" f/4.9 "Alfred E. Newtonian"
Wyorock Custom Crayford
Denk Standards w/Dual PxS
PST (w/the "Good" Gold Objective)
12x60 Oberwerk Binos
www.jdavisgallery.com
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skyward_eyes
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/12/06
Posts: 2386
Loc: Arizona
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Rick,
Have you ever used a PST or know anyone who might have one? I would suggest seeing if you can try one before buying and see if it fits what your looking for.
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5 Reflectors 3"-16"
www.skiesofarizona.webs.com
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 2057
Loc: Virginia
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Yes, binoviewing engages both eyes and your brain processes the object as mother nature intended. The result is increased depth perception and a perceived increase in brightness and detail even though you've just ~halved the light throughput to each eye (your brain is very good at "filling in" some details when inputting with both eyes). I very much like viewing the sun with a binoviewer and recommend it highly. If nothing else, it is comfortable and I feel like I'm viewing a true orb. But then again, I especially like full disc views against a velvety black background.
By the way Jeremy - by squinting, I assume you mean when viewing through one eye and single EP. I always view at night with both eyes open. It takes a little training to avoid processing info through the "free" eye but in the dark this is pretty easy. When viewing the sun in cyclops mode I also keep both eyes open. However, the free eye has an eye patch over it (cheap drugstore patch) - otherwise, the brightness simply overwhelms anything your brain is registering through your eyepiece eye.
Rick, I really don't agree that you've got to spend a wad of cash to enjoy some H-alpha views. But if you think you are likely to end up getting into it in a big way then sure - you might want to go with something more substantial out of the gate and spend accordingly. But if you want something for your finder bracket and you mainly want to see prominences (not really any choice lately anyway) and get some grins, then get a PST or a Lunt 35.
Ok - one last thing... I'm surprised he hasn't weighed in yet but I remember back when Stephen (darkstar528) got his PST and started posting his observations. I don't want to speak for him but my perception is that he is the poster boy for how much viewing enjoyment and detail one can get out of a PST. I've enjoyed his many posts and enthusiasm - all stoked by a PST. Coronado/Meade should give the guy a 90 !! 
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Hooville
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Rick Woods
Postmaster
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 6268
Loc: Inner Solar System
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Quote:
Rick, I really don't agree that you've got to spend a wad of cash to enjoy some H-alpha views. But if you think you are likely to end up getting into it in a big way then sure - you might want to go with something more substantial out of the gate and spend accordingly. But if you want something for your finder bracket and you mainly want to see prominences (not really any choice lately anyway) and get some grins, then get a PST or a Lunt 35.
That second part pretty much describes me. I'd love to try one before buying, but I live in a rural area, no other astronomers around. I have to rely on asking questions like this.
Is either the Lunt or PST better than the other in some way? Does the extra 5mm aperture on the PST provide some advantage?
Thanks for all the responses so far!
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- Rick
14" LX200GPS
Dyslexics Untie!
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skyward_eyes
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/12/06
Posts: 2386
Loc: Arizona
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The Lunt LS35s are being built, all you have to do it call Lunt and order one. The LS35 I think is better becasue it uses a front mounted filter which seems to perform a bit better then a internal etalon like the PST. The build quality is much better on the Lunt and it performs more like a Coronado Solarmax 40 then a PST and its the price of a PST! I believe the design on the LS35 would work better in a finder bracket becasue of its long tube unlike the PSTs tube and box like body of the PST.
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5 Reflectors 3"-16"
www.skiesofarizona.webs.com
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Mozhoven
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 884
Loc: Middletown, CT
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Doug,
Thanks for confirming what I expect to see with my binoviewer. I've used one for years at night and really can't enjoy observing with out one (and haven't for about a year!)
Now that I have one on the way, I'm really excited again. During my year of monoviewing I did use a patch, but never got comfortable with it. As an artist, I rely on my perception of a model (person or planet) being interpreted with both my eyes. As you say, it is natural and is "as Mother Nature intended". I have to say that even though I know binoviewing halves the light coming in to each eye, I've never felt that when using one. As a matter of fact, the object feels brighter and the perceived FOV much larger. The best thing is the contrast boost. The brain is indeed very good at filling in detail. Actually, I liken it to "image stacking" as is done on the computer. If I close either eye, when looking at anything, I get an image I would consider 8 out of 10. When I view with both eyes, the image is 10/10 easy. In art I only close one eye to simplify the subject for basic construction purposes. By limiting my vision I can see the basic structure more easily. With astronomy, I want the whole picture, thus both eyes are required. (at least for me)
Now, what strikes me about the Sun is that, even in mono mode, it appears "3-D). Something about that texture and the way it crawls around the orb. Very cool. I can only imagine the intensified 3-D effect with a binoviewer. My thing is all about comfort, and with a binoviewer I could stare for hours.
So, to get the thread back on subject. Yes, for me, the PST is the one. (but I would love to try a Lunt 32, or 60 for that matter....) 
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Jeremy Davis
Sculptor & Certified Binoviewer Addict (CBA)
Orion XT12i - 12" f/4.9 "Alfred E. Newtonian"
Wyorock Custom Crayford
Denk Standards w/Dual PxS
PST (w/the "Good" Gold Objective)
12x60 Oberwerk Binos
www.jdavisgallery.com
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