AXAF
sage
Reged: 09/15/04
Posts: 234
Loc: New England
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I'm inching closer to purchasing a Baader Herschel Wedge. My only question is, can I get away with using the visual unit for webcam imaging if I decide to go that route. Or, is it best to go with the photographic unit, which I assume can be adjusted for visual use?
-Gary
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Torus Optics 32cm f/6 Dob
Osypowski Equatorial Platform
Fujinon 10x70
Coronado PST plus SolarMax 40 filter
Vixen GPD2 on a Berlebach Tripod
StellarVue SV90T
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nini et titi
member
Reged: 08/27/09
Posts: 88
Loc: Mesnil Panneville ,Normandy,FR...
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Hi Gary
I have since a few weeks the photographic version of the Baader Wedge
the package contains :the Wedge ,a continium filter (for contrast),a 3.0 neutral density filter (fixed to the wedge) and three others density filters for adjust luminosity in visual use and for photo
Last Monday I took pictures of AR11025 with it ,and visualy it's was without danger (looking with Télévue 8/24 zoom and the 6 inch apo refractor!!)
Etienne
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Tom and Beth
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/08/07
Posts: 929
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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The diff between the two are the additional filters Etienne mentioned. You could probaly skip the Continuum and use a Wratten 58 instead saving some money. The various ND filters are worth every penny, especially if you are visual.
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ragebot
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/26/05
Posts: 1672
Loc: Tallahassee, FL, USA
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I have one of the APM wedges (after I returned the Baader 2in wedge because it would not come to focus on my OTA and the vendor confirmed the Baader wedge wont come to focus on many popular OTAs) as well as a continuum filter and a ND filter.
My advice would be to get a variable polarizing filter no matter which way you go.
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Meade ETX 90, Meade AR5, Orion ED80, Atlas GT, 8 in Newt, Coronado DS SM40, Garrett 10.5X70, Sigma SD10, SD14, Canon 1D2, Xti, Nikon CP4500, C-14
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colinsk
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/08
Posts: 2150
Loc: CA
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Quote:
My advice would be to get a variable polarizing filter no matter which way you go.
Since the wedge is partially polarizing you can just put a single polarizer on the EP and rotate it to adjust the brightness.
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Mahalo,
Colin Kaminski
Coulter 10.1" Dobsonian
TV-76/Baader Film White Light
LS60T/DS50/FT/BF1200
LDX-75
AT Voyager
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3458
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The Baader ideed won't come to focus in certain/many(?) telescopes due to the lengthened light path the Baader presents. Baader themselves state as much. I bought mine with the intent that if I had to, I'd cut the tube of one of my 2 80mm Planet Hunters down to use with it. So far I have tried mine in an S/V 80mm NHNG and an 80mm Burgess Planet Hunter and it comes to focus just fine. Next to try are my Meade 102ED APO and Burgess 127/8.
The others are correct, the only difference between the 2 is the 3 additional ND filters. A single polarizing filter- in conjunction with the wedge as Colin stated will also work.
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Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL
Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O
"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers
Edited by Wes James (09/04/09 02:47 PM)
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Ralph Marantino
Postmaster
Reged: 05/01/05
Posts: 6331
Loc: Old Bridge, New Jersey
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Save a LOT of money go with a LUNT or APM wedge.I have used APM and Baader externsively and there ain't no difference in the vue just the unit's finish.
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Lunt H-alpha LS100THa/B3400
Rockland Astronomy Club
Member BAA Solar Section
Central Appalachian Astronomy Club
Astronomical League
DSPST,PST & 70mm Coronado Cal K telescope.2.2A
Zeiss 2 inch prism diagonal&Zeiss Zoom EP
2inch APM Herschel Wedge in a 94mm F7 Brandon
14.5 inch f4.2 Starmaster Dob(Zambuto mirror)
TeleView Genisis SDF with 1000 Oaks Glass filter
Zeiss 63mm f13.5 refractor 1000 Oaks Glass filter
Itty Bitty Solar Radio Telescope.
LHRIES Lite Solar Spectrometer
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1861
Loc: Virginia
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Its been so long since I've had occasion to use my Baader wedge that I'd almost forgotten if I was remembering correctly, but as Colin has already pointed out the properties of the wedge allow you to add a single polarizing filter to the optical chain. If you add it to a threaded eyepiece for visual or webcam barrel for imaging, you can change brightness by rotating. It works well and thus makes the visual "version" more versatile..
As for coming to focus with the Baader there are other ways to potentially fix this without cutting your tube! For example, the 2" EP holder that comes with the wedge is massive and with the right adapters you can replace this with a much shorter 1.25" holder like the Baader click stop ep clamp. This might be sufficient for you to reach focus if in fact you do have a problem with your OTA. I always wondered who would be using a 2" EP with a wedge?
Personally, I like the fit, finish, design features (e.g., heat baffle), T2 system compatability, and quality of the Baader unit. For me, it was worth the extra cost over the APM. Whether the Zeiss prism in the Baader offers you a better view/image than the APM/LUNT, I don't know but I would think the only way to tell for sure would be a side by side real time comparison. White light detail is subtle.
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3458
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Good comments, Doug... for me, the heat disapating shield was kind of the dealmaker for me. And you're correct, thanks for the reminder about replacing the eyepiece holder. You're correct, a 2" eyepiece for solar wedge observing is kind of an unlikely scenario.
Anyone have any specific part numbers for a better (i.e., shorter) 1.25" adaptor to put on the Baader wedge housing? Wes
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1861
Loc: Virginia
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Wes, according to the AlpineAstro site you need a T2-27 adapter plus the T2-08 1.25" clickstop. I'm pretty sure that is exactly how mine is configured. I'd be happy to post a picture tonight if anyone is interested.
I really wish Baader would offer this configuration as an optional version - plus, it would probably save a few bucks. as it is, the conversion makes an already expensive product even more pricey.
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3458
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Doug-
I'd appreciate pic's... sounds like a smart choice. You're correct- it should be offered as an option. Or, perhaps it should be supplied that way standard, with the 2" eyepiece adaptor offered as the option!
Wes
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ragebot
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/26/05
Posts: 1672
Loc: Tallahassee, FL, USA
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The nice thing about a variable polarizer is that it is not a one trick pony. You can use on other OTAs; like when you are observing the moon.
Multi-tasking rules.
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Meade ETX 90, Meade AR5, Orion ED80, Atlas GT, 8 in Newt, Coronado DS SM40, Garrett 10.5X70, Sigma SD10, SD14, Canon 1D2, Xti, Nikon CP4500, C-14
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3458
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"Multi-tasking rules."
Absolutely!
Doug- does the 1.25" adapted setup for the wedge cause any issues with filters? In other words, I've been using a 1.25" adaptor in the 2" as supplied- with a U/V filter added as well... will that still work with the clickstop - and the stock 2" Continuium/ND filters work also in the T2-27 adaptor?
Wes
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1861
Loc: Virginia
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Wes, the adapted set should cause no problem with filters - you are only replacing a threaded ring adaptor for attaching the 2" holder with a comparable ring for attaching the 1.25" holder. I took 3 quick photos that should help. First, here is the wedge with the 1.25" click stop attached (my default).
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1861
Loc: Virginia
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Here is the 1.25" clickstop (removed) sitting next to the 2" with the supplied 1.25" adapter in place, which is probably what most of us would be using for 1.25" EPs with the stock wedge (although you could certainly use a much narrower profile 1.25" EP adapter to get you closer). It is kind of ridiculous isn't it? In any event, there is your back focus distance problem probably solved for some folks...! Both the click stop and the 2" holder sit flush on the wedge housing (with their respective adapter ring and attached filters hanging below - not shown here).
My 2" adapter now serves as a nicely machined paperweight!
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1861
Loc: Virginia
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Here is the click stop again, unscrewed and sitting over the adapter ring with the continuum and ND3 screwed into the ring. You can see how the clickstop would cover up the top threaded region and the larger threaded region with filters would be below wedge housing surface. There is a thin "lip" you can see bewteen both threaded segments that would sit flush with the wedge housing. I'd have to dig up the threaded ring for the stock 2" holder to confirm, but I think if anything, the adapter ring for the 1.25 clickstop might actually give the filters more room..??
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3458
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Thanks, Doug-
I appreciate the pic's so much... worth a thousand words, so someone once said!
I ordered the pieces... Thanks again!
Wes
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1861
Loc: Virginia
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you're very welcome Wes - I'm glad it helped. Hopefully, it didn't deviate too far from the OP's specific question.
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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AXAF
sage
Reged: 09/15/04
Posts: 234
Loc: New England
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Thanks to everyone for their input. The photos are especially appreciated, Doug. This UVa Wahoo says thanks!
I pinged Bob Luffel at Alpine Astro with a Baader question, as I am trying to figure out if my StellarVue SV90T has sufficient back focus for the wedge's optical path length. One thing that he mentioned is that Baader has redesigned the wedge such that the output is sealed off with a ceramic backplate to prevent one from poking their finger into the output/exhaust beam.
Gary
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Torus Optics 32cm f/6 Dob
Osypowski Equatorial Platform
Fujinon 10x70
Coronado PST plus SolarMax 40 filter
Vixen GPD2 on a Berlebach Tripod
StellarVue SV90T
Edited by AXAF (09/05/09 06:21 AM)
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ragebot
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/26/05
Posts: 1672
Loc: Tallahassee, FL, USA
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Quote:
Thanks to everyone for their input. The photos are especially appreciated, Doug. This UVa Wahoo says thanks!
I pinged Bob Luffel at Alpine Astro with a Baader question, as I am trying to figure out if my StellarVue SV90T has sufficient back focus for the wedge's optical path length. One thing that he mentioned is that Baader has redesigned the wedge such that the output is sealed off with a ceramic backplate to prevent one from poking their finger into the output/exhaust beam.
Gary
I am not sure if this is a good thing or not.
I like to be able to light matches in the output beam of my APM.  
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Meade ETX 90, Meade AR5, Orion ED80, Atlas GT, 8 in Newt, Coronado DS SM40, Garrett 10.5X70, Sigma SD10, SD14, Canon 1D2, Xti, Nikon CP4500, C-14
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BYoesle
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 1115
Loc: Goldendale, WA USA
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Quote:
One thing that he mentioned is that Baader has redesigned the wedge such that the output is sealed off with a ceramic backplate to prevent one from poking their finger into the output/exhaust beam...
I am not sure if this is a good thing or not.
I like to be able to light matches in the output beam of my APM.
I wonder where they got that idea 
BTW - Blocking the exit image brightness for public viewing, and protecting the back of the wedge prism from curious little fingers are also quite useful. The original Baader absorber protected one from the former, but not the latter.
As the original how-to article noted web page, one can make this device out of surplus parts for less than $20 US, and it doesn't have to be elaborate...
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Bob Yoesle 
You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars...
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Desiderata
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3458
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Quote:
I like to be able to light matches in the output beam of my APM.
Or, to quote Craig Breedlove- at the Bonneville Salt Flats, after a record run in the 'Spirit of America'- clipping off several telephone poles and ending up nose-down in a salt pond-
"For my next act- I'm going to set myself on fire!"
Wes
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ragebot
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/26/05
Posts: 1672
Loc: Tallahassee, FL, USA
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Has anyone put their finger, palm, hand, or any other body part in the exhaust light beam?
I have tried it and did not notice any real heat, but it was in the hot Florida sun.
The only real chance of injury I can think of is if you lay down on the ground and put your eye ball directly in the path of the light; but I am way too lazy to try that.
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Meade ETX 90, Meade AR5, Orion ED80, Atlas GT, 8 in Newt, Coronado DS SM40, Garrett 10.5X70, Sigma SD10, SD14, Canon 1D2, Xti, Nikon CP4500, C-14
Edited by ragebot (09/07/09 05:49 PM)
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1861
Loc: Virginia
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If I recall correctly, the metal mesh in the exhaust port of the Baader never felt very warm when touched. Next time I have it out I'll be sure and stick a match in there as a more objective test. 
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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BYoesle
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 1115
Loc: Goldendale, WA USA
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I recently accidentally dislodged the thermocouple inside my wedge directly into the exit beam of my 100ED f/9 refractor. The temperature went from just below ambient (~ 95 F) to 118 F (48 C) in seconds, and stayed there for at least a minute before I removed it. Thereafter the temperature fell just as rapidly back to just below ambient (CPU fan running).
The main reason to cover the exit aperture of a wedge is to physically protect the wedge prism itself from damage, and protect one's own and other's eyesight from the sun's reflected image.
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Bob Yoesle
You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars...
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Desiderata
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Keith Howlett
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 977
Loc: Northumberland, UK
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Hi Doug,
The pictures of the Baader Wedge with the 1.25 inch adapter are really interesting, thanks for posting. Have you ever used the Wedge with the quick-release fitting instead of the adapter?
Cheers,
Keith
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AXAF
sage
Reged: 09/15/04
Posts: 234
Loc: New England
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I'm looking forward to picking up the photographic version of the Baader wedge. I figure that if I follow that up with the Baader Calcium K-line filter, I may want the flexibility to choose the most suitable neutral density filter for imaging. And with the planned purchase of a Lunt 60mm pressure-tuned H-alpha telescope mounted atop my Stardust blue colored Stellarvue SV90T, I'll have a pretty nice looking solar rig capable of exploring the Sun!
Best,
Gary
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Torus Optics 32cm f/6 Dob
Osypowski Equatorial Platform
Fujinon 10x70
Coronado PST plus SolarMax 40 filter
Vixen GPD2 on a Berlebach Tripod
StellarVue SV90T
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1861
Loc: Virginia
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Quote:
Hi Doug,
The pictures of the Baader Wedge with the 1.25 inch adapter are really interesting, thanks for posting. Have you ever used the Wedge with the quick-release fitting instead of the adapter?
Cheers,
Keith
Yes, definitely Keith. In fact, when I took the pictures I removed the 2-part quick release - I didn't want to confuse things. I keep a coupling on the clickstop and a coupling on my Maxbright Binoviewer (the Mark V and prism diagonal I have has a QR coupling as well). With coupler in place the clicktop is still lower than the 2" Ep holder that came with wedge.
It is great for swapping out the clickstop with one of the 2 binoviewers.
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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ragebot
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/26/05
Posts: 1672
Loc: Tallahassee, FL, USA
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Quote:
If I recall correctly, the metal mesh in the exhaust port of the Baader never felt very warm when touched. Next time I have it out I'll be sure and stick a match in there as a more objective test.
Hi Doug,
Sometimes I suffer from humor impairment.
I was just joking about lighting a match, I never really tried that.
I did stick my finger in the beam for a New York second and really did not notice anything. Next I left the finger in for a few seconds and it was what I call warm to the touch. I then turned my hand palm down and put the back of my hand in the beam and it was warmer than the 85-90 degree Florida temp in bright sun light; but nothing close to being a Vulcan Death Ray that would destroy a Klingon Bird of Prey.
YMMV. 
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Meade ETX 90, Meade AR5, Orion ED80, Atlas GT, 8 in Newt, Coronado DS SM40, Garrett 10.5X70, Sigma SD10, SD14, Canon 1D2, Xti, Nikon CP4500, C-14
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colinsk
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/08
Posts: 2150
Loc: CA
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I dont' have a wedge but I would expect the focal point of the objective exiting the wedge to be quite hot. So not at the surface of the wedge but around 100mm or so away there should be a hot spot. Is this true?
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Mahalo,
Colin Kaminski
Coulter 10.1" Dobsonian
TV-76/Baader Film White Light
LS60T/DS50/FT/BF1200
LDX-75
AT Voyager
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1861
Loc: Virginia
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Lest there be any remaining confusion on this score, I have no intention of trying to light a match with my solar wedge, as much as I enjoy ragebot's earlier suggestion. I actually interpreted it as a joke (lest anyone also thinks I'm humorless). So, I suggest no one else try this no matter how sorely tempted. Now the fuse of a firecracker... or stick of dynamite....
Colin - what you suggest makes sense but the light doesn't exit that way. The light is deflected toward the metal exhaust port (i.e., does not have a straight path away into open space). In addition, the exhaust shroud of the Baader wedge has a tri-folded, perforated piece of sheet metal in the exit path that further disrupts the waste light and disperses the heat. This is the only wedge I've ever used so I can't comment on the design of the exhaust port in other designs...??
Plus, the infrared wavelengths aren't really all that easy to "focus" or - more accurately - will of course have a different focal point than the visible wavelengths.
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Keith Howlett
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 977
Loc: Northumberland, UK
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Quote:
Quote:
Hi Doug,
The pictures of the Baader Wedge with the 1.25 inch adapter are really interesting, thanks for posting. Have you ever used the Wedge with the quick-release fitting instead of the adapter?
Cheers,
Keith
Yes, definitely Keith. In fact, when I took the pictures I removed the 2-part quick release - I didn't want to confuse things. I keep a coupling on the clickstop and a coupling on my Maxbright Binoviewer (the Mark V and prism diagonal I have has a QR coupling as well). With coupler in place the clicktop is still lower than the 2" Ep holder that came with wedge.
It is great for swapping out the clickstop with one of the 2 binoviewers.
Hi Doug,
Brilliant, I think that could work for me too. IIIRC we have similar equipment.
At present I have 3 filters after the wedge, the ND, the green continuum filter and an additional IR blocker. Looking at your picture it could be that I need to arrange a few mm of extra stand-off to accommodate the third filter.
If there's any chance you could post a picture of that too I would be very grateful. It would help me make some sense of the options that might work from the Baader parts chart!
Cheers,
Keith
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Keith Howlett
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 977
Loc: Northumberland, UK
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Quote:
I dont' have a wedge but I would expect the focal point of the objective exiting the wedge to be quite hot. So not at the surface of the wedge but around 100mm or so away there should be a hot spot. Is this true?
Hi Colin,
You're right and as Doug notes the exhaust beam falls on the integral heat sink in the Baader Wedge housing before reaching focus. The heat sink is very effective and the housing gets warm but not hot.
It was interesting to see Bob Yoesle's measured temperature at the heat sink that he has fitted to the exhaust port of his (APM?) wedge above.
Cheers,
Keith
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1861
Loc: Virginia
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Keith - I'll be glad to post some more images tonight. But to be sure - do you want to see the quick release couplings and/or have me check if there is room for a 3rd filter in place? I think I have had a 3rd filter in there ... but I'll try it tonight to confirm.
Doug
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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Keith Howlett
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 977
Loc: Northumberland, UK
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Hi Doug,
That's very kind, many thanks. I'd like to see the coupling in an exploded view like the your adapter photos. If you could check on the room for the third filter that would be very helpful. (If it's all right with you I will use the photo to explain to our Baader dealer what I need to buy.)
Cheers,
Keith
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3458
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I have the current Baader, with the stock 2" "tall" eyepiece holder, and the one problem with it I see is in the area of filters... the ring that the filters mount to- and then the eyepiece holder mounts to- how far down is it supposed to go? Because it's simply a threaded ring that you can screw in as far as you want- until it hits the edge surface of the wedge. 2 filters is about all you can put on it. I screw it in until a filter contacts the edge of the prism- then back it off a quarter turn or so- hold it in place through the eyepiece holder while I screw it in place. Kind of an odd design. I add the IR filter to the eyepiece. Hoping the new 1.25" setup (T2-27/T2-08) will improve this.
Wes
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1861
Loc: Virginia
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You are right Wes - a lot of slop in that ring for the 2". The one advantage is that you can make some more room for filters if you needed it. The conversion to 1.25" will restrict this. Unlike the situation with the stock threaded ring, you screw the replacement ring with filters attached all the way in and then the same with the 1.25" holder on the other end. The difference of course, is that the new adapter ring has a lip separating "inside" threads from "outside" threads. You can see the lip in the photo I posted earlier.
When I get home tonight I will try and confirm whether you can indeed mount 3 full size Baader filters with the 1.25" conversion ring without hitting the wedge.
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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colinsk
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/08
Posts: 2150
Loc: CA
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Quote:
Colin - what you suggest makes sense but the light doesn't exit that way. The light is deflected toward the metal exhaust port (i.e., does not have a straight path away into open space). In addition, the exhaust shroud of the Baader wedge has a tri-folded, perforated piece of sheet metal in the exit path that further disrupts the waste light and disperses the heat. This is the only wedge I've ever used so I can't comment on the design of the exhaust port in other designs...??
I hope all commercial design include a baffle of sorts. Not all of the homemade ones do. The problem is the other focal point contains about 85% of the energy and is at the right height for a child to try to view. It is also the right height to set your clothes on fire.
--------------------
Mahalo,
Colin Kaminski
Coulter 10.1" Dobsonian
TV-76/Baader Film White Light
LS60T/DS50/FT/BF1200
LDX-75
AT Voyager
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1861
Loc: Virginia
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Ok, I've got some more images for you.
First the question about filter stacking.... I can't get 3 full size Baader filters (I had a UV/IR lying around that I attached) to fit in the wedge housing with either the stock 2" threaded ring or the T2-27 replacement threaded adapter for the T2-08 clicklock eyepiece clamp. So this confuses me a bit because as I understand it, the photographic version comes with 3 ND filters. But I think the point is to use just one of the 3 NDs to suit your particular imaging requirements. The photo version comes with a 2nd threaded ring so you can swap out the ND3. The system chart didn't really seem to help much but that is my interpretation. I guess it might be time to ask Bob Luffel to confirm - unless someone else on the forum has the P version and can shed some light on this (pun intended).
This first image shows the order of pieces you would use to get both the clicklock and quick release coupler in place. On the right is the stock 2" ep holder again with the stock 2" threaded ring as a frame of reference (no filters shown here, they are at left). Ok, so the part numbers on left from top to bottom (I might get this wrong so please confirm with Bob before ordering anything):
T2-08 clicklock 1.25" eyepiece clamp
T2-07 ss quick change ring
T2-06 quick changer
T2-27 threaded adapter
ND3 filter
Continuum filter
Note about quick changer system: T2 quick changer (T2-6,7) composed of the T2-07 stainless steel quick change ring that screws into bottom of the clickstop. On the other side is an external dovetail lip that fits into the T2-06 quick changer, which in turn has a thumbscrew to secure the T2-07 dovetail. The other side of the T2-06 is threaded to screw onto the T2-27 adapter ring with filters.
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1861
Loc: Virginia
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Image 2 - clickstop attached to wedge with quick changer.....
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1861
Loc: Virginia
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Image 3 - Mark V binoviewer attached to wedge with quick change system. The Baader binoviewer has the stainless steel dovetail built in; I swap it in and out of prism diagonal or wedge (shown). The good thing about this is how close it couples to reduce back focus issues.
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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BYoesle
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 1115
Loc: Goldendale, WA USA
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Quote:
First the question about filter stacking.... I can't get 3 full size Baader filters (I had a UV/IR lying around that I attached) to fit in the wedge housing with either the stock 2" threaded ring or the T2-27 replacement threaded adapter for the T2-08 clicklock eyepiece clamp.
I have had the same issue with the APM wedge -- too many filters and not enough room to stack them all. My fix was to combine filters in the same filter ring - there usually is more than enough internal thread length to get at least two filters in the same ring. I have the ND 3 filter more or less permanently mounted with silicone just after the prism in the main wedge housing. I usually follow this with a 0.9 ND combined with a IR/UV cut filter in the same filter holder attached to a 2-1.25 inch adapter, and follow this with a 1.25 inch polarizer and/or a Continuum filter attached to a 1.25 eyepiece.
--------------------
Bob Yoesle
You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars...
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Desiderata
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Keith Howlett
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 977
Loc: Northumberland, UK
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Hi Doug,
Thank you very much for the photos, I'm clear about what I need now!
I've been missing the option of using my binoviewers with the wedge and it is obvious that the arrangement in the photos will give a very quick and convenient way of swapping from the diagonal to the wedge.
Thanks also for checking the three filter option, it's not a surprise that it doesn't fit. I currently have two filters screwed to the threaded insert and the third on the 1.25 to 2 inch adapter.
Cheers,
Keith
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Keith Howlett
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 977
Loc: Northumberland, UK
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Hi Bob,
Thanks for the suggestion, it's a good idea. If I can re-mount two of the filters in the same housing I'm sure that will fix my three filter problem.
Cheers,
Keith
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3458
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Doug- Thanks for your pictures. I'm still not quite understanding the comments on siliconing in a 3rd filter... but I guess when I get the parts from Alpine- which should be any day, I'll see what I have- and what I can do. I can always put a 3rd filter in the eyepiece.
All these adaptors can get so confusing!
edit: I do not, however, remember the Baader wedge coming with a 2nd threaded ring extra... I will have to double-check and see.
Wes
Edited by Wes James (09/09/09 07:46 AM)
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solarGain
super member
Reged: 07/18/09
Posts: 135
Loc: London & la Palma, Canary Is.
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Wow...thank you all for the constructive way this thread has developed to the better of enquiring minds. I am also thinking of a dedicated 'scope and a herschel set up but not just yet...you can't beat a dedicated solar 'scope! Great. regards John
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Solar eclipse chaser: Madagascar 2001, Libya 2006 and booked for Easter Island 2010.
PST Original blue . Manfrotto head/tripod x2.
Denk PST corrector, 21's & Denk II Binoviewer, wow!
Denk Bino/lunt diagonal adaptor.
Lunt LS100THa/ B1800 (Pressure-tuned) w/ Feather touch focuser. Vixen GP2 motorised ,& Vixen pier.
added 07 24 2009
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1861
Loc: Virginia
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Quote:
All these adaptors can get so confusing!
edit: I do not, however, remember the Baader wedge coming with a 2nd threaded ring extra... I will have to double-check and see.
Wes
Boy, ain't that the truth. The Baader T2 stuff is great but sorting through it is tough - almost as bad as figuring out Borg a la carte scopes!
The info on the second ring came from the Alpineastro site description ("more info" page) for the photo version wedge. Look here and under the "Precautions" heading #2. It mentions the additional "coupling" ring that is included with the photo version.
I think that the ND3 that comes with the visual set-up is supposed to be "cemented" in place so that you can't inadvertently leave it out (I have long since separated mine, however). So, obviously, if you want to convert to a photo set up you would just swap out the ring with the ND3 cemented in place with the second ring and whatever ND you choose (or add one of the additional NDs to the ND3 of the "visual" configuration to make the view even dimmer. At least that is how I'm reading it. Remember, I own the visual version not the "photo" version.
Frankly, I don't see the need for the photo version. With today's sensitive "web" cameras like the DMKs, which most of us would be using with the wedge, I don't think the ND3 is a problem at all. The image is plenty bright. And if too much light was the problem you could just add a single additional ND in place of the continuum.
By the way, I think Bob is talking about actually taking the glass out of an ND filter ring and "cementing" that piece of glass into another ND filter to create a glass sandwich of sorts. Depending on the filter design, the glass disc in the filter housing might be held in place by a retaining ring and thus, you might be able to just add another piece of glass and still have enough room to put retaining ring back in place? I don't have the Baader in front of me at moment so I don't know if it has a retaining ring or if the glass is cemented in place somehow. Silicone might do the trick if there is no retaining ring and you have enough room to cement another piece of glass in place - as Bob suggested.
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
Edited by Doug D. (09/09/09 11:37 AM)
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3458
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Ah, yes, Doug- I now remember about disassembling/layering filters up.. I'd forgotten reading about it until you mentioned it. The one thing I'd mention is to be extremely careful with using silicone- silicone seal/caulking is notorious for outgassing noxious fumes. If the sealant you're using smells like ammonia, it's the kind to be very careful with. I would be extremely wary of using anything like that around optical coatings- no telling what kind of a reaction you might get. Could haze/fog and ruin the coatings. If I were doing it, I'd use a few very tiny dabs of epoxy. NO superglue- again, for the same reasons!
I'm pretty sure that the only difference between the 2 versions is that they include the 2 additional ND filters, but I'll check tonight. Part of the reason I ended up with it- is that it was in stock- and the visual version wasn't! Didn't want to wait 5-8 weeks!
Hard to tell from the drawings... I agree with you- the way its worded....
Wes
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colinsk
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/08
Posts: 2150
Loc: CA
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When you are sandwiching two pieces of glass together it is important to use an index matching fluid. You can use smokeless lamp oil for a temporary sandwich but I would use Norland UV cure Glue for a permanent connection. The sun makes a good enough UV source to cure the glue for our applications. It can take about an hour of direct sun.
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Mahalo,
Colin Kaminski
Coulter 10.1" Dobsonian
TV-76/Baader Film White Light
LS60T/DS50/FT/BF1200
LDX-75
AT Voyager
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3458
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Hmmm... good tip- Thanks, Colin-
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DAVIDG
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 1989
Loc: Hockessin, De
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Quote:
Wow...thank you all for the constructive way this thread has developed to the better of enquiring minds. I am also thinking of a dedicated 'scope and a herschel set up but not just yet...you can't beat a dedicated solar 'scope! Great. regards John
A couple of comments, first the filter used in the wedge maybe stated to be a ND3 but it is real an Optical Density of 3. Neutral density rating are based on photographic F-stops and are rated in powers of 2. So a real ND3 filter reduces the light by 2^3 or 8x. Optical Density is rated in powers of ten so a OD3 filter reduces the light by a factor 10^3 or 1000x. For safe solar viewing you need a reduction of 100,000:1. The Herschel wedge by itself transmitts about .05, the OD3 filter .001 so your at 5000:1 reduction and the addition polarizer and/or Continum filter gets you the rest of the way.
Attached is a picture of my dedicated white-light solar newtonian which uses uncoated mirrors and built in rotatable Herschel wedge. Since the light coming off the diagonal is at 45 degrees it is polarized and the wedge also being at 45 degrees results in cross polarized light. So by rotating the wedge I can vary the brightness to fit the viewing conditions. I get amazing sharp and contrasty views with this scope. The scope is also very safe, since none of the optical surfaces see any full strength concentated light and there is no coating that can fail. If only the Sun would start getting some spots !
- Dave
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3458
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Dave-
Nice to see your scope in it's new mount! Don't you have a page somewhere on this solar scope?? That shows the optical layout of it?
COnversations with you- and reading about Jim Daley's scopes have piqued my interest in uncoated optics- for not only solar viewing- but lunar as well.
Wes
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AXAF
sage
Reged: 09/15/04
Posts: 234
Loc: New England
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Quote:
...a real ND3 filter reduces the light by 2^3 or 8x. Optical Density is rated in powers of ten so a OD3 filter reduces the light by a factor 10^3 or 1000x. For safe solar viewing you need a reduction of 100,000:1. The Herschel wedge by itself transmitts about .05, the OD3 filter .001 so your at 5000:1 reduction and the addition polarizer and/or Continum filter gets you the rest of the way.
Regarding the 100,000:1 reduction, does this equally apply to the UV and infrared, not just the visible part of the spectrum? I believe one person mentioned that he adds an IR filter in the optical train. Is the OD3 filter effective at cutting down the IR, too?
Regards,
Gary
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Torus Optics 32cm f/6 Dob
Osypowski Equatorial Platform
Fujinon 10x70
Coronado PST plus SolarMax 40 filter
Vixen GPD2 on a Berlebach Tripod
StellarVue SV90T
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DAVIDG
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 1989
Loc: Hockessin, De
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Gary,
Here is a link for some typical solar filters, note that for the safe filters the Optical Density of the filters is 5 or greater in the visible and close to that in the IR.
http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/image/filter.gif
- Dave
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Homemade 'scopes 8"f/7,6" f/5", 6"f/4, 4.25" Schief. 60mm Coronagraph,60mm H-alpha system, 4.25" White-light Solar Newtonian,solar spectroscope, 4.5" f/16 Schupmann Medial refractor, 14 Stellafane awards 7 in optics
Engineering = Taking what you have and making what you need.
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colinsk
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/08
Posts: 2150
Loc: CA
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I wish that link was everywhere. Thank you Dave.
--------------------
Mahalo,
Colin Kaminski
Coulter 10.1" Dobsonian
TV-76/Baader Film White Light
LS60T/DS50/FT/BF1200
LDX-75
AT Voyager
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Keith Howlett
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 977
Loc: Northumberland, UK
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Hi Doug,
My parts have been successfully ordered, many thanks for your help.
Cheers,
Keith
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3458
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After double checking- my Baader Wedge did not come with an extra ring...
Wes
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BYoesle
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 1115
Loc: Goldendale, WA USA
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Regarding the use of Silicone adhesive for securing the ND3 filter: no problem encountered - no fogging or residue was left on the filter. Note the small amount used, and that lots of ventilation (for "curing") is available with the prism removed. I chose Silicone because it is flexible enough to deal with any thermal induced cracking that would occur with more solid adhesives, and does not result in a difficult removal of the filter if for some reason it becomes necessary (i.e. not a "permanent" installation). No expensive machining was required - although if I had the ability to do my own internal threading, that perhaps would be the ideal method to use.
Regarding stacking multiple filters in the same filter holder: most of these filters are threaded with a retaining ring and there is plenty of room to add filter(s) to the filter holding ring for stacking - just use a thin spacer between the filter elements themselves. I cut a small ring of black construction paper for this purpose. No-muss-no-fuss, and completely reversible as well.
Complete APM 2" HW filtering chain: Wedge prism; ND3 filter siliconed in wedge housing; 2" filter ring with multiple glass filters (IR/UV/ND 0.9); 1.25 eyepiece filter (single polarizer):
--------------------
Bob Yoesle
You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars...
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Desiderata
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Keith Howlett
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 977
Loc: Northumberland, UK
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Hi Bob,
Thanks, that's much clearer.
Cheers,
Keith
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Jeff Young
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/04/05
Posts: 4116
Loc: Ireland
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I've been following this thread with great interest. Couple of questions:
1) I use my MkV with a T2 prism for planetary and a T2 mirror for H-alpha. This primarily allows me to run at two different focal lengths (1.25X and 1.45X) without having to move the fiddly OCS around when I go back and forth. (I have one OCS mounted in the telescope side of the mirror diagonal for 1.45X, and one mounted in the binohead side of the prism diagonal for 1.25X.)
But for white light, this means I'd need to be able to insert the OCS in the Herschel wedge. It looks like the double-threaded insert that Doug is using for the 1.25" clickstop clamp is the same that comes with the T2 prism diagonal. Will the MkV OCS fit inside it?
2) I love the idea of trimming brightness with a polarizer. But you can't rotate a binohead like you can an eyepiece (not unless your eyes move around in your head). With aggressive tube shortening you *could* use double diagonals (sort of like a bent refractor), and rotate the wedge with respect to the other diagonal. But you might find that the correct rotation still left the binohead in an uncomfortable position.
Something like Meade's variable polarizer (with the fixed element removed) might work better, but it's 1.25".
Hmmmm... what about something like an Astronomik filter drawer with a rubber wheel inserted in the drawer front that makes contact with a polarizing filter allowing it to be rotated? Probably too much friction unless you put a couple of ball bearings on the opposite side of the drawer.
Any other ideas?
-- Jeff.
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Nikon 18x70s / UA Millennium Colorado:
Solarscope SF70 / TV Pronto / AP400QMD Coronado SolarMax40 DS / Bogen 055+3130
APM MC1610 / Tak FC-100 / AP1200GTO Tak Mewlon 250 / AP600EGTO
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BYoesle
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 1115
Loc: Goldendale, WA USA
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Quote:
I love the idea of trimming brightness with a polarizer. But you can't rotate a binohead like you can an eyepiece (not unless your eyes move around in your head). With aggressive tube shortening you *could* use double diagonals (sort of like a bent refractor), and rotate the wedge with respect to the other diagonal. But you might find that the correct rotation still left the binohead in an uncomfortable position.
Something like Meade's variable polarizer (with the fixed element removed) might work better, but it's 1.25"...
Any other ideas?
Hi Jeff,
Since variable polarizers use two optically identical polarizers, typically both in threaded cells that will fit a standard threaded 1.25 inch eyepiece barrel, for my binoviewing I just add them individually to each eyepiece and rotate the eyepieces to matching brightness levels (very easy to do). This is a lot less hassel, and no extra stuff to buy...
Note the internal threads on the "fixed" polarizer on the left to accept the threaded rotating element on the right -- they are all identical to the standard 1.25 filter thread, and therefore each will fit a standard 1.25 inch eyepiece.
--------------------
Bob Yoesle
You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars...
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Desiderata
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1861
Loc: Virginia
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Hmmm, sounds like a bit to think about Jeff... Once we are done with this thread it may end up as "everything you ever wanted to know about the Baader wedge and T2 system"!
Just to clarify though - are you talking about Glasspath compensators when you say OCS? I also have an idea about the polarizer issue you raise with the binoviewers but I need to try it out first to see if I'm remembering the various bits properly. I have the T2 prism and can also check if the adapters you refer to are the same..
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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Jeff Young
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/04/05
Posts: 4116
Loc: Ireland
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Bob --
I thought about that, but I thought it'd be hard to keep both eyes at the same brightness. But perhaps that's not really an issue in practice?
Doug --
Yeah, sorry about the terminology switch. For OCS read glasspath compensator.
I checked my T2 system chart, and it does list the threaded ring separately. It's part number T2-03, which is different from your T2-27.
T2-03 is a step-up ring (from M36,4 to T2), while T2-27 is a step-down ring (from UNC2" to T2). So the question is, does the step-down ring have internal threads (M34) for the glasspath compensator, or is it the right diameter (38mm) for the teflon centering ring that comes with the glasspath compensator? The chart only list the filter threads (M48) on the input side.
I note there's also T2-28, which goes from UNC2" to T-2, but doesn't have the lip in between. This one doesn't indicate if its internally threaded on either side.
-- Jeff.
--------------------
Nikon 18x70s / UA Millennium Colorado:
Solarscope SF70 / TV Pronto / AP400QMD Coronado SolarMax40 DS / Bogen 055+3130
APM MC1610 / Tak FC-100 / AP1200GTO Tak Mewlon 250 / AP600EGTO
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3458
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Quote:
OCS read glasspath compensator... T2 system chart... part number T2-03, which is different from your T2-27. T2-03 is a step-up ring (from M36,4 to T2), while T2-27 is a step-down ring (from UNC2" to T2). So the question is, does the step-down ring have internal threads (M34) for the glasspath compensator, or is it the right diameter (38mm) for the teflon centering ring that comes with the glasspath compensator? The chart only list the filter threads (M48) on the input side.... there's also T2-28, which goes from UNC2" to T-2, but doesn't have the lip in between. This one doesn't indicate if its internally threaded on either side.
AARRRRRRGHHHHH!!!!!!  
ENOUGH!!!!!
Wes
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BYoesle
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 1115
Loc: Goldendale, WA USA
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Holy Camolee!
AARRRRRRGHHHHH!!!!!! Is right!
--------------------
Bob Yoesle
You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars...
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Desiderata
|
BYoesle
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 1115
Loc: Goldendale, WA USA
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Quote:
Bob --
I thought about that, but I thought it'd be hard to keep both eyes at the same brightness. But perhaps that's not really an issue in practice?
Actually Jeff, you may find, as I have, that the brightness sensitivity of your eyes may vary. While not as bad as the pirate above, my right eye is not as sensitive to light as my left, and the ability to individually adjust / fine-tune the brightness for each eye is of benefit for me when binoviewing. Even if both your eyes are equally sensitive, getting the brightness level equal with two polarizers is very easy - try it. Adjust the brightness for your dominant eye first, then your non-dominant eye.
I also suspect that when I observed the sun for years while a kid through a cheap eyepiece-mounted welders-glass type filter some IR or UV leaked through, and my right eye is about a magnitude less sensitive than my left (non-dominant) eye. Another reason I'm Mr. Overkill whe it comes to IR/UV protection...
--------------------
Bob Yoesle
You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars...
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Desiderata
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TONGKW
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/16/07
Posts: 572
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When I heard the Baader Herschel wedge may not come to focus I bought the cheaper 1.25” Intes Herschel wedge instead with the mandatory B & W ND3 and polarizing filters. The Vixen 8-24 mm zoom eyepiece is very handy as the magnification can be adjusted immediately.
K W TONG
C8+CG-5GT, TSA102+HEQ5 PRO, MK67+Voyager, NexStar 6SE, C5+Mizar K, WO ZS80FD+Kenko NES, Megrez 72FD+Kenko KDS, Mini Borg 50, PST
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TONGKW
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/16/07
Posts: 572
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Unfortunately many of my fellow club members are skeptical as to whether the 100,000:1 reduction would equally apply to the UV and IR and as a result they are a bit reluctant to view the sun as it is. After failing concrete information to confirm and so as to be on the safe side I add a Baader UV/IR cut filter to the mandatory ND3 and polarizing filters. Now all club members are happy to view the sun with the additional UV/IR filter on.
K W TONG
C8+CG-5GT, TSA102+HEQ5 PRO, MK67+Voyager, NexStar 6SE, C5+Mizar K, WO ZS80FD+Kenko NES, Megrez 72FD+Kenko KDS, Mini Borg 50, PST
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Keith Howlett
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 977
Loc: Northumberland, UK
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In case anyone didn't see them, the UV/IR issues are already comprehensively covered in these threads from last year:
UV/IR Intensity Levels In A Herschel Wedge
Herschel Safety Wedge - Decent?
Cheers,
Keith
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Jeff Young
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/04/05
Posts: 4116
Loc: Ireland
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Quote:
Actually Jeff, you may find, as I have, that the brightness sensitivity of your eyes may vary. While not as bad as the pirate above, my right eye is not as sensitive to light as my left, and the ability to individually adjust / fine-tune the brightness for each eye is of benefit for me when binoviewing. Even if both your eyes are equally sensitive, getting the brightness level equal with two polarizers is very easy - try it. Adjust the brightness for your dominant eye first, then your non-dominant eye.
I also suspect that when I observed the sun for years while a kid through a cheap eyepiece-mounted welders-glass type filter some IR or UV leaked through, and my right eye is about a magnitude less sensitive than my left (non-dominant) eye. Another reason I'm Mr. Overkill whe it comes to IR/UV protection...
Cool, thanks Bob. I'll give it a go.
Someone mentioned earlier that their Newt secondary also polarized light. Is that true for any diagonal? In other words, could I also try this trick to adjust the brightness of h-alpha?
-- Jeff.
--------------------
Nikon 18x70s / UA Millennium Colorado:
Solarscope SF70 / TV Pronto / AP400QMD Coronado SolarMax40 DS / Bogen 055+3130
APM MC1610 / Tak FC-100 / AP1200GTO Tak Mewlon 250 / AP600EGTO
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Keith Howlett
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 977
Loc: Northumberland, UK
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Jeff,
It works with reflections from non-metallic surfaces. (The secondary mirror in the solar Newtonian telescope above does not have a reflective coating.)
Cheers,
Keith
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DAVIDG
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 1989
Loc: Hockessin, De
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The etalon in a H-alpha 'scope polarizers the light also, so using a polarizing filter in the eyepiece works well to adjust the brightness and improve the contrast. I use one all the time on my PST.
Any time you have a reflection off of bare glass the light has some level of polarization. The closer the angle of reflection is to the Brewster angle the higher the level of polarization. For crown glass the Brewester angle is about 57 degrees. Antique solar prisms use two surfaces angled at the Brewster angle and one rotates one prism with respect to the other to cross polarize the light and dim the image. With both surfaces at the Brewster angle, the light is fully polarized and one can fully dim the image to full blackness.
- Dave
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Homemade 'scopes 8"f/7,6" f/5", 6"f/4, 4.25" Schief. 60mm Coronagraph,60mm H-alpha system, 4.25" White-light Solar Newtonian,solar spectroscope, 4.5" f/16 Schupmann Medial refractor, 14 Stellafane awards 7 in optics
Engineering = Taking what you have and making what you need.
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Jeff B
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/30/06
Posts: 678
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So what's the optical path length of the wedge with the 2" adapter? As my refractors have been designed to have 2" of additional in travel with my Denk binoviewers and my AP diagonal, I've a bit of extra room to play with. Certainly it should not be an issue for use without the binos.
Jeff
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Jeff Young
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/04/05
Posts: 4116
Loc: Ireland
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Thanks, Dave and Keith.
Jeff --
Baader quotes 128mm for the Herschel wedge (to the top of the 2" holder). Your AP diagonal has a path length of 104mm, so the Baader will consume nearly an inch more backfocus. Given your 2" of backfocus, you should be fine even with the binos.
-- Jeff.
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Nikon 18x70s / UA Millennium Colorado:
Solarscope SF70 / TV Pronto / AP400QMD Coronado SolarMax40 DS / Bogen 055+3130
APM MC1610 / Tak FC-100 / AP1200GTO Tak Mewlon 250 / AP600EGTO
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colinsk
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/08
Posts: 2150
Loc: CA
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Quote:
The etalon in a H-alpha 'scope polarizers the light also, so using a polarizing filter in the eyepiece works well to adjust the brightness and improve the contrast. I use one all the time on my PST.
Any time you have a reflection off of bare glass the light has some level of polarization. The closer the angle of reflection is to the Brewster angle the higher the level of polarization. For crown glass the Brewester angle is about 57 degrees. Antique solar prisms use two surfaces angled at the Brewster angle and one rotates one prism with respect to the other to cross polarize the light and dim the image. With both surfaces at the Brewster angle, the light is fully polarized and one can fully dim the image to full blackness.
- Dave
Since the light is almost normal to the etalon I would be surprised if there was much polarization off the etalon. Perhaps the polarization is coming from the pentaprism?
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Mahalo,
Colin Kaminski
Coulter 10.1" Dobsonian
TV-76/Baader Film White Light
LS60T/DS50/FT/BF1200
LDX-75
AT Voyager
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Jeff B
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/30/06
Posts: 678
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Thanks man!
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Keith Howlett
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 977
Loc: Northumberland, UK
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Big thanks from me to Doug and Bob!
I added the Baader adapters shown in Doug's photos and I now have a quick and convenient coupling with my binoviewers that has freed up a lot of back focus. (The photos helped enormously when I was trying to make some sense of the Baader parts chart.)
I was also able use Bob's idea to fit three filters into a space made for two by adding my Baader Solar Continuum filter to the UV/IR filter barrel using the UV/IR retaining ring as a spacer. There was comfortably enough room to fit the retaining ring from the Continuum filter into the remaining thread.
I'm very pleased with these neat solutions. 
Many thanks,
Keith
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Keith Howlett
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 977
Loc: Northumberland, UK
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...and back on topic for the OP. I bought my Baader Herschel Wedge several years ago with the ND=3.0 'visual' filter and the three 'photographic' filters (1.8, 0.9 and 0.6).
I did put a webcam on the wedge a couple of times and it worked fine with the 'visual' filter. I eventually moved the photographic filters to my binoviewer case for visual use on the moon.
Cheers,
Keith
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 1861
Loc: Virginia
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Glad it worked out Keith and happy to have helped. I plan to use Bob's idea as well when I feel the need arises.
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Hooville
AP 105EDF f/6 Traveler; AP 140 EDF StarFire f/7.5; TV 76 f/6.3 with Solarscope SF70 filter; Solarscope Solarview 50; Coronado CaK 70; Orion XT-10; Baader Mk V & ZAO II's; Half-Hitch Mk II; Astrotrac TT320X, pier & wedge; AP Mach1GTO; PGR Flea 2
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