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Don.Key
member


Reged: 10/14/10

Loc: Alps
2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use
      #4496599 - 04/04/11 07:59 PM

Hi,

I would like to equip my scope with 2" filter wheel for use with 2" UWA EP's.

Ideally, this would be same mechanism as with 1.25" wheels where front / scope side has a tube which goes into diagonal (male) and back / EP side has a tube into which EP is inserted (female), also called visual back.

Unfortunately something like this does not seem to exist at all for 2" filters. I purchased a used Orion 2" filter wheel just to find out that it lacks visual back or as orion states: "not intended for visual use"

Is there a way to add a female visual back to orion 2" wheel or is there a 2" wheel which comes with a visual back?

Thanks!

Edited by Don.Key (04/04/11 08:03 PM)


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Arbacia
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 04/18/07

Loc: Madrid, Spain
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: Don.Key]
      #4496653 - 04/04/11 08:28 PM

Check for the Baader ClickLock 2" with nosepiece 2". The nosepiece can be disambled.

Check for T2 eyepiece holders.


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Arbacia
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Reged: 04/18/07

Loc: Madrid, Spain
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: Arbacia]
      #4496665 - 04/04/11 08:37 PM

from
http://www.alpineastro.com/eyepiece_adapters/eyepiece_adapters.htm

Quote:

For use with all of the Baader Astro T-2 components, the T2-28a Expanding Ring is used to convert the 2" threading of the 2" Clicklock Holder (CLSC-2) or T2-17 holder into internal T-2 threads. It's ultra-low profile takes up only 1mm of length.




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dyslexic nam
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/28/08

Loc: PEI, Canada
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: Arbacia]
      #4496691 - 04/04/11 08:54 PM

This is the 2" ep holder I use with mine:
http://agenaastro.com/blue-fireball-2-eyepiece-t2-female-thread-adapter-visual-back.html

I installed a Moonlite (low profile) focuser as well to give me enough in-focus on my 8" f6. The filter wheel needs a fair bit of extra travel, so you have to be sure your scope has the right amount to accomodate the extra length.


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dyslexic nam
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Reged: 01/28/08

Loc: PEI, Canada
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: dyslexic nam]
      #4496699 - 04/04/11 08:57 PM Attachment (115 downloads)

Pic:

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Don.Key
member


Reged: 10/14/10

Loc: Alps
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: dyslexic nam]
      #4510613 - 04/11/11 08:56 AM

Hi,

Thanks for advises, that is exactly what I needed.

But, as dyslexic has mentioned I will most probably hit a focus issue We will see, part is ordered.

Cheers


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dyslexic nam
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/28/08

Loc: PEI, Canada
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: Don.Key]
      #4511149 - 04/11/11 12:57 PM

If it turns out that you do have focus issues, one possible strategy is to use a barlow lens to move the point-of-focus out further from the scope. A barlow extends the light path outward, so it would eliminate the need for some additional focus travel. I don't know if it would be enough to accomodate the filter wheel in your particular set up, but it is one strategy that might allow you to bring some ep's to focus with a filter wheel.

You can either use the whole barlow or, depending on the barlow, you can just thread the front lens element into the filter wheel. On the Orion 2" filter wheel, the nosepiece (on the telescope-side) screws into the main filter wheel piece using standard M48 filter threads. This is also the threading used in the lens element of the 2" GSO 2x ED barlow (other barlows may use it as well, but I know the GSO oes for sure). This means that you can screw the barlow lens element directly into the filter wheel in place of the nosepiece. This reduces the distance between the lens element and the eyepiece that you insert into the ep holder you just ordered, which keeps the magnification increase more reasonable.

There is some discussion of this here.


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tonyt
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/02/09

Loc: Australia
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: dyslexic nam]
      #4639395 - 06/14/11 09:51 PM Attachment (457 downloads)

While searching for info on the filter wheel for visual use I didn't find much but I did find this thread, so I'll add another option to the list. The wheel can be joined to a WO diagonal using Baader part # T2-29.

Edited by tonyt (06/14/11 09:53 PM)


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gnowellsct
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Reged: 06/24/09

Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: tonyt]
      #4639620 - 06/15/11 12:48 AM

well it is certainly a laudable way to stimulate the economy. And I see thatthe Orionfilter wheel is made in Portugal, which very much needs the boost. So I say let everyone get a filter wheel.

Greg N


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tonyt
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/02/09

Loc: Australia
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: gnowellsct]
      #4639654 - 06/15/11 01:43 AM

It is a bit pricey but I think I'll get a lot of use out of the wheel - makes it so easy to use the filters and keep them protected. Having to change them over in the dark is quite a disincentive.

The setup above only has a 38mm clear aperture (due to T2 components) but I have adapters on the way from Germany which should allow me to connect the wheel to a GSO diagonal giving 46mm CA.

- Tony


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dyslexic nam
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/28/08

Loc: PEI, Canada
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: tonyt]
      #4639837 - 06/15/11 07:50 AM

I got sick of trying to change filters in the dark, accidentally touching the glass while handling, and occasionally dropping a filter in the grass. Now that I have a FW set-up that works, it is way less hassle and I find myself enjoying my filters a lot more.

I am really looking forward to the next Mars opposition when I can do some quick A-B-C filter comparisons.


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Fred1
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Reged: 09/19/07

Loc: Somewhere in the Orion Spur
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: dyslexic nam]
      #4641217 - 06/15/11 11:19 PM Attachment (60 downloads)

And you can piggy-back them, too.

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tonyt
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/02/09

Loc: Australia
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: Fred1]
      #4641315 - 06/16/11 12:24 AM

The people at Orion are going to have to start giving us commission if this catches on Fred, and you'll get double

What do you do with the dual filter wheels?

- Tony


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chuen
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Reged: 10/13/06

Loc: England
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: tonyt]
      #4641571 - 06/16/11 07:54 AM

Denkmeier and Earthwin make filter switches, where you can have 2 filters, and slide them in and out of the light path. Not sure if they sell them separate to diagonals/binos though. I bought one attached to a diagonal, and found I used my filters a lot more.

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UmaDog
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Reged: 09/15/10

Loc: Long Island, NY
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: chuen]
      #4641586 - 06/16/11 08:06 AM

For a Newt, a common solution is to place the filters before the focuser: http://www.astrocrumb.com/

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Arbacia
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 04/18/07

Loc: Madrid, Spain
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: UmaDog]
      #4641674 - 06/16/11 09:11 AM

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__emqwuFe28



To reach focus I have had to saw off 3 cm from the lower edge of the upper cage. (the video is previous to cutting the edge). Also I have turn the upper cage at the shame position that the focuser is in LB12" and 10". In the LB 16" it is just above the fulcrum (pivot), so the focuser tube is Always horizontal and for low elevation objects I had to sit very low.

The body of Baader steeltrack focuser can be put instead of the original focuser in the origigal base plat. A couple of headless allen screws keep the fosuser in place. This is a lower profile focuser than the original.

The filter wheel is for four 2" filters. I will use NPB, OIII, H beta and an empty space for unfiltering vision. In the nosepiece I can put the 2" variable Polarizer or neutral filters I have. The filter wheel comes with 2" (M48mm) filter screw plus T T adapters. For the eyepiece holder I order a Baader click-lock 2" clamp (model for C8-C9.25 + SCT srew-T screw adapter). Temporally, I am using a SCT Meade visualback +SCT srew-T screw adapter.

I want to share this filter wheel with my C11, in which I use also Click-lock clamps (visual back + diagonal)

Patricio


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tonyt
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/02/09

Loc: Australia
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: Arbacia]
      #4645083 - 06/18/11 12:12 AM

I'm posting a response here I made to a PM should others find the info useful:

some more details here: http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=76917

I use a nosepiece on the front of the filter wheel since I have a feathertouch crayford focuser on the C11. There are all sorts of adapters from Baader and Telescope Service (in Germany) but the SCT adapter sold by WO for their diagonal would let you connect the filter wheel directly to your 9.25; note that the M48 threads are not a perfect match between the WO gear and the Orion filter wheel but they are secure enough IMO.

The clear aperture of the WO diagonal/filter wheel setup is 38mm but I think that's the same as the C9.25 so no problem there. I intend to mate the wheel with a GSO diagonal giving 46mm clear aperture since I want to use it with a 41mm Panoptic.

The Eathwin setup also looks like a good option though you can only mount 2 filters rather than three in the filter wheel (in addition to one left empty) and you have to pay extra to get the dielectric mirror. I think the Earthwin is 40mm clear aperture which is not a problem for you but is a restriction in the C11 when using an eyepiece with a 46mm field stop.

Hope that helps and feel free to ask any more questions.

- Tony


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Lane
Post Laureate


Reged: 11/19/07

Loc: Frisco, Texas
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: tonyt]
      #4646741 - 06/18/11 11:10 PM

Hey, this what I was looking for last year. I finally bought the Lumicon slider when I could not figure out how to adapt the Orion 2" filter wheel to my C11 for visual use.

I would like to connect the filter wheel directly to the back of my C11 and then have a 2" nose piece sticking out for me to insert my regular diagonal. Is that possible or not? There is no way I can turn the filter wheel all the way around because of the feather touch focuser that sticks out a lot, but I need to be able to rotate the diagonal easily.


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tonyt
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/02/09

Loc: Australia
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: Lane]
      #4646882 - 06/19/11 01:37 AM

Quote:

I would like to connect the filter wheel directly to the back of my C11 and then have a 2" nose piece sticking out for me to insert my regular diagonal.




In order to preserve clear aperture the best way I can see to connect the wheel to the C11 rear cell is to use the Astro-Physics part# ADASCTLC which adapts from the 3.25" rear cell to 2" accessories.

From there you could connect a Baader clicklock eyepiece holder to the M48 threads in the filter wheel body using the apropriate adapter - I'm not sure which adapter but I'll be able to tell you next week if you're interested as I have some new parts arriving (including clicklock eyepiece holder).

If you only needed the 38mm CA of the T2 threads there are simpler options.


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Lane
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Reged: 11/19/07

Loc: Frisco, Texas
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: tonyt]
      #4646893 - 06/19/11 01:45 AM

I am definitely interested, put up a pic if you can, as soon as you get it all assembled.

The main concern I have is that there is no room to tighten the filterwheel onto the scope due to that big feather touch focuser, it sticks out like 3 inches.


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faackanders2
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/28/11

Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: UmaDog]
      #4646964 - 06/19/11 03:25 AM

Astrocrumb now had two versions of the filter slide, one that attaches to the dob tube and one that attaches to the focuser. The straight one has a Denkmeier infocus friendly version with handle that protrudes out the end of the dob, so you can change filters keeping scope aimed at object.

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Arbacia
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 04/18/07

Loc: Madrid, Spain
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: faackanders2]
      #4646989 - 06/19/11 04:10 AM

For my C11 I use the Baader 2" click Lock visual back (for c11-C14). Then 2" Click Lock Diagonal.

An then, I use two different things, one for binocular and the other for monocular:
1.- Binocular observation: TV binoviever with a 5x1,25" filter whell. The filter wheel with a 2"-T2 nosepiece in one extreme and the T2-T2 adapter that comes with the wheel in the other. The binoviewver is atach directly to the wheel

2.- Monocular observation with 2" eyepieces: a Brightstar 4x2" Filter wheel (the same by Orion and Atik). With a 2" nosepiece (that comes with the wheel) in the telescope side and for the eyepiece side a Badder 2" click lock eyepiece holder. Note that this filterwhell uses M48 (the same pass than the 2" filter), the Click lock is the one designed for C8 and an adaptor M48 (=2" filter screw)-T2 is need. This filter wheel (as it is mounted, with 2" nosepiece and click lock eyepiece holder) is used also in my LB16""


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tonyt
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/02/09

Loc: Australia
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: Arbacia]
      #4647005 - 06/19/11 05:27 AM

There certainly are a variety of ways to use the filter wheel behind various scopes and it's good to see people posting the different configurations they're using. The 38mm CA from incorporating T2 components isn't bad but I'm hoping to squeeze another 4mm or 5mm CA by using M48 as the smallest thread - should get about 43mm, not the 46mm I mistakenly posted earlier. I'll post pics after the new adapters arrive.

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Fred1
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Reged: 09/19/07

Loc: Somewhere in the Orion Spur
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: tonyt]
      #4648081 - 06/19/11 09:24 PM

Quote:

The people at Orion are going to have to start giving us commission if this catches on Fred, and you'll get double

What do you do with the dual filter wheels?

- Tony




I could certainly use the money!!! Anyway, I posted the pic just as an illustration of what can be done. In other words, load up both wheels with all of your favorite planetary and deep sky filters. In my case, if you look closely at the picture, you'll see that one of them is a Siebert Optics power mag wheel. Harry Siebert modifies an Orion Wheel by putting his own barlows and a focal reducer in. So, I'm really not THAT crazy. But the possibilities are there for mating 2 filter wheels, presumably with some vignetting due to the stacking.


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tonyt
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/02/09

Loc: Australia
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: Fred1]
      #4649857 - 06/20/11 08:16 PM Attachment (83 downloads)

Lane, here are the pics you requested. One problem I had was that the Baader external SCT threaded ring is manufactured to poor tolerances (it's too big in diameter). I ordered two of these rings and one was slightly smaller than the other - the smaller ring would fit most sct threads and did fit the clicklock eyepiece holder. It did not fit the GSO diagonal so I had to use a grinder with wire brush to take the paint off and a sanding stone to remove the top of the threads to get it to fit - so I won't post a pic of the GSO diagonal/filter wheel combo in case people are mislead into thinking they can easily copy the setup.

The parts used in the pics are: BA2956220 clicklock eyepiece holder, BA1508020 external SCT threaded ring, TSROTSC-M48 SC to M48 360 degree rotating ring(2 parts, the outer part holding a dovetailed ring) and the filter wheel. The parts were purchased from Telescope Service in Germany and the clear aperture is 44mm.

Edited by tonyt (06/20/11 08:23 PM)


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tonyt
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/02/09

Loc: Australia
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: tonyt]
      #4649865 - 06/20/11 08:20 PM Attachment (72 downloads)

put together:

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junomike
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Reged: 09/07/09

Loc: Ontario
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: tonyt]
      #4656036 - 06/24/11 11:17 AM

Tony, Thanks for the updated pics and parts info. I have one question though. Are you using the Filter wheel in a Diagonal or just as is in a Newt? (Your first pic shows It in a Diagonal and your last pic shows It without). Reason I ask is I currently use an EarthWin PFS-DBSE which has the two filter sliders. I noticed that when using my UO 40mm MK70 or 42mm LVW there was severe Vignetting. Turns out that the EarthWin eyepiece collar has a threaded Dovetail (so It can easily be swapped out for direct attachment of Binoviewers) and is roughly 1.75" in diameter, not a true 2"! Once I swapped the EarthWin set up for my StellarVue Diagonal (which has almost 2"), the Vignetting went away. Have you experienced any Vignetting with large F/L EP's (40mm) with the new larger aperture parts?
I know the WO Diagonal (as well as others) are not quite 2" either due to tapering in the eyepiece collar.

Mike

Edited by junomike (06/24/11 11:30 AM)


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tonyt
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/02/09

Loc: Australia
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: junomike]
      #4657021 - 06/24/11 08:45 PM

Hi Mike, the pics above were just to show a possible combination that was requested by Lane. I'll be using the filter wheel with a diagonal.

I've got the wheel connected to a GSO diagonal. The smallest thread is the inside of the M48 thread used to connect parts to the wheel, giving a clear aperture of 44mm. Due to poor weather I haven't had the chance to use it with the C11 and 41mm Pan, but it's sunny today so maybe tonight.

Unfortunately the Baader sct threaded ring is made to very poor tolerances and I had a hell of a time getting it threaded into the GSO diagonal, so I didn't post a pic of the setup. The diagonal takes the place of the clicklock adapter in the pics above.

The WO diagonal is 40mm CA while the GSO diagonal is 46mm CA.

Tony


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tonyt
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/02/09

Loc: Australia
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: tonyt]
      #4657035 - 06/24/11 08:57 PM

Mike, regarding the Earthwin vignetting, did you have any of the power changing optics in the light path and is their aperture even smaller than the 1.75" dovetail?

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junomike
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Reged: 09/07/09

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Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: tonyt]
      #4657195 - 06/24/11 11:01 PM

Tony, Thanks for the explaination. I look forward to your results!
In regards to the EarthWin, I didn't have any optics in the light path. The Dovetail which is threaded into the bottom of the eyepiece collar (to allow for easy changing to Binoviewers via a thumbscrew) is approx. 40mm. The optics themselves are almost the same so, whether you use the lenses or not, the CA is approx. 1.574". I've only had Vignetting issues with the 40mm 70 Deg eyepieces. For those I have a StellarVue Diagonal.

Mike


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tonyt
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/02/09

Loc: Australia
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: junomike]
      #4657650 - 06/25/11 09:18 AM

I checked for vignetting tonight Mike using the C11 and 41mm Panoptic. Comparing the filter wheel/GSO diagonal to a Televue Everbrite it was hard to see a difference in the width of the field or the appearance of the field stop (slightly fuzzy in both).

Vignetting could be seen with the slightest turn of the wheel while using an empty filter hole, the holder immediately intruding at the edge of field, so I'm thinking 44mm CA must be right on the border line for interfering with the view through an eyepiece with a 46mm field stop.

In any case, the wheel/diagonal combo works well. On NGC 3372 an OIII gave the best contrast between nebulosity and dark lanes, while an NPB(UHC) filter gave the best detail within the nebulosity.

The filters themselves have about 43mm CA and I thought I could see a bit more edge darkening in comparison to the empty slot.

Tony


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junomike
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Reged: 09/07/09

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Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: tonyt]
      #4657922 - 06/25/11 12:10 PM

Tony, Glad to hear It all worked out as planned. Your results will help others for sure. I never even considered Filters as a Vignetting source. I have the same as you (Lumicon OIII measures 41mm and a DGM NPB which measure 43mm). Even when threaded directly to the eyepiece there would still be Vignetting so I guess that's one trade off to using Filters. A worthy one though IMHO.

Mike


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Mariner@sg
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Reged: 06/28/12

Loc: Little Red Dot
Re: 2" Filter Wheel with visual back / for visual use new [Re: tonyt]
      #5620074 - 01/13/13 12:46 AM

Quote:

While searching for info on the filter wheel for visual use I didn't find much but I did find this thread, so I'll add another option to the list. The wheel can be joined to a WO diagonal using Baader part # T2-29.




Sorry for resurrecting an old thread. I recently got the same FW and am having trouble joining it to the WO 2" diagonal as suggested by tonyt (Using the Baader T2/M48).

The diagonal uses the same T2 threads as the FW so I should be getting a T2/T2?

I was told there are 2 versions of the diagonal,older which uses the M48 thread while the new one uses T2. Heres a pict of my diagonal (nose piece end)





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