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Equipment Discussions >> Equipment

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Shneor
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 03/01/05

Loc: Northern California
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: crazyqban]
      #6134246 - 10/13/13 02:48 AM

It has been a couple of decades since I sold a Celestron C-8 OTA to a gentleman in New Zealand. I had a couple of forms to fill out, and I planned to ship it using USPS. The maximum length plus girth was 80 inches, and my local post office refused it because it was 1/2 inch larger. I took it to a contract post office in town, and they accepted it. The buyer wanted me to declare a lower value so his customs duties would be less, but I convinced him that if anything happened, the insurance could not exceed the declared value. So I entered the true sale price. I recently turned down a foreign offer simply because I don't want the additional trouble of filling out forms (the prospective buyer offered to pay any additional shipping cost). I did ship some donated astro items to Curacao a year or so ago, and that turned out be be quite simple for some reason. I don't want to charge for extra time on forms, but I feel my time is valuable.

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Bill Weir
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/01/04

Loc: Metchosin (Victoria), Canada
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6134263 - 10/13/13 03:13 AM

Do you know about this site? http://www.astrobuysell.com/
While I've only bought a few things on the used market the majority have been from the US and the majority of those did state CONUS only yet still the deal was cut. Only ever wanted it shipped USPS and was willing to pay the full shipping. There is no duty on astro equipment and taxes are my responsibility.

If someone doesn't want to sell something that is their right, Oh Well. What I do see though is that there is a lot of used stuff out there that is going unsold so perhaps keep track of those things and the seller who wouldn't sell. Perhaps with a little time their attitude might change.

On that Canadian site throw up a wanted ad if there is something you really want. You might be surprised what might reply.

For the most part (and I mean no disrespect) you might just need to get over this. We live in an amazing country, the fact someone might not want to sell you something is small beans.

Bill


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sg6
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/14/10

Loc: Norfolk, UK.
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6134328 - 10/13/13 04:45 AM

It will be the boarder and the related customs etc that is the problem. Equally I have had problems buying bits from other people in the UK and not going over a boarder, and we ain't that big.

I now usually look for a location before contact and if possible just drive to collect. Which considering our post is good and the whole place is about 800 miles end to end is pretty bad.


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gonzosc1
sage


Reged: 11/08/12

Loc: South Carolina
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: crazyqban]
      #6134529 - 10/13/13 09:05 AM

there are reshippers avalible in the US. just sold a bass guitar on ebay and I had USCON only listed on it. A guy from Finnand wanted the bass and told me about a reshipper he uses out of Fla. so I shipped to Fla and they ship to him at big saving. if I were to ship direct to him it would have been $400-$500, the reshipper did it for $160. they ship in bulk all over the world so they get bulk rates. may take a bit longer to get an item.

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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Bill Weir]
      #6134558 - 10/13/13 09:27 AM

Quote:

Do you know about this site? http://www.astrobuysell.com/

Bill




Sure I do, Bill. But it's really pretty pathetic. Our market is so small. I did, by shear coincidence, pick up two Delos EPs there very recently though.

Earlier this year I was notified by a US friend of some high-end gear being listed on Astromart by a Canadian. I bought many kilobucks of it from him.
Typically, it was not even listed on the Canadian board!
Seems even Canadians don't list on the Canadian board!
He still has $8,300 of stuff left on Amart . . . or, at least, has not marked the items as being sold.
Had it not been pointed out to me, I'd have not even seen the listing!


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tomcody
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/06/08

Loc: Titusville, Florida
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6134672 - 10/13/13 10:22 AM

Terry,
I don't speak for anybody but me when I say the problem is on the mostly US side with customs and ITAR regulations and forms to complete in order to ship internationally. I was trained for two weeks by NASA in ITAR regulations needed to manage my projects for NASA and all my work still had to be reviewed by an internal NASA review board and ITAR attorneys.
I have to fill out the same custom forms and ITAR questions/forms to ship as a citizen and am faced with the same fines and criminal penalties if such forms are not correct! As even after formal training, I still can't figure out the correct answers to these custom/ITAR forms, I will not put my future in jeopardy to sell internationally. Others may take these custom declarations less serious than me (probably because I had the (insert possible TOS word violation here) scared out of me by my government training.)

On your end, I see the issue as only lack of available shipper insurance across border and long delays (which may cause me a bad rating as the buyer confuses a customs delay with a shipping delay from me).

As a possible solution, we could eliminate the borders, how do you and your fellow Canadians feel about joining us? we could use five or six more states in the US and you could join in the fun with representatives in Washington!
Rex


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Robo-bob
sage


Reged: 05/02/05

Loc: Central Alberta
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: tomcody]
      #6134747 - 10/13/13 10:57 AM

Quote:



As a possible solution, we could eliminate the borders, how do you and your fellow Canadians feel about joining us? we could use five or six more states in the US and you could join in the fun with representatives in Washington!
Rex




Well Rex, it would be much better if you joined us. We could use another province. Just think, we could rule the world with your military and our natural resources


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: tomcody]
      #6134778 - 10/13/13 11:13 AM

Quote:

As a possible solution, we could eliminate the borders, how do you and your fellow Canadians feel about joining us?
Rex





This would take us squarely into the realm of the political!!

For the past few years, I've spent winters in the US and became accustomed to unfettered access to the American consumer marketplace. I guess now I'm feeling the "isolation" of my return to full time residency in Canada.

I've certainly seen it from both sides. From the viewpoint only of the consumer marketplace, Canada is a "third world country!" People usually point to the taxes but it really isn't the taxes the government reaps that are so irksome. It is all the other stuff, the customs delays, brokerage fees and extra charges that seem to proliferate at every step that I find frustrating.

Two recent incidences:
1/ I had a small order with Agena. The parcel showed up at the Canadian sorting station in Toronto without contents. Or so I was finally told. I could do nothing. All this took six weeks BTW! Only the shipper could initiate any action. Canada post would not even tell me precisely what the problem was!
I had to go to Agena and have them call Canada Post, break through the voicemail system which seems precisely and deliberately designed to prevent reaching a human being, to see what was wrong with the shipment. It was only from them
I learned the package was "without contents." I would hardly blame Agena if "We don't ship to Canada" went up on their website too, as it has on many others.

2/ While in the US last spring, I sold some stuff on ebay. One transaction was a small $600 camera lens which sold to a Canadian. I went to the post office and shipped it. The paperwork seemed pretty minimal to me although the form was longer than what is required when shipping to the US from Canada.
The form here really is minimal. Along the lines of "Contents: Used camera lens. Value: $600" is all that is required up here . . . on a little green sticker.
But, in shipping that lens north from FL, I DID indeed have to stand in line at the post office. But, don't you have to anyway with a package even within the US? The cost was pretty high too . . . $50.50.


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csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6134789 - 10/13/13 11:18 AM

Quote:

But, in shipping that lens north from FL, I DID indeed have to stand in line at the post office. But, don't you have to anyway with a package even within the US?




I am one that has CONUS in my ads; as it's quite an inconvenience for me to stand in line to get the form, fill it out; go to the back of the line again, before I actually ship the pkg. It's usually a 45-60 minute transaction for me. I can ship UPS by dropping it off at my family's business where they pkg, label, etc. for UPS to pickup from them. I must say I feel very badly for our Canada neighbors, but I hate standing in line!


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Eddgie
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/01/06

Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: csrlice12]
      #6134790 - 10/13/13 11:18 AM

Quote:

I just really can't believe our two governments couldn't get together and do some kind of reciprocal agreement between the two country's postal services. At least for postage.




It is clear to me that you have not done your homework by posting this.

The US Postal Service has recreciprocal postage agreement with EVERY country in the world for first class mail.

I mail things to Canada reqularly and have mailed to Europe, Australia, and South Amercia many times.

The only requirement on the part of the US shipper is to fill out a very simple customs deceleration form.

The post office will have stacks of these and I keep a few on hand at the house.

You fill out the item description, quantity, weight, and value, along with the shipper's and receiver's address. It takes all of 3 minutes.

This is attached to the package.

The buyer's home country will (f necessary) bill the reciepient and there is no burden on the seller other than to fill out the very simple form.

There are only three conditions I make.. I will only declare the value for the price paid. No more, no less.

I will not guaranty the delivery.

Sale if final.

Very easy to mail outside the us.

And as I said, the US postal service does indeed have recriprical postal agreement with every country in the workd.

This includes North Korea, Iran, and even Somolia.

Every country. It is funny that with all the countries that hate us, they still want to be able to communicate back and forth. I admire the US Postal Service for ensuring that this can be done economically and simply.

Ask them. I did and that was what I was told by the postmaster.

I can ship a package to Europe for the same as shipping it to the west cost. When they ship to us, they pay their own internal rate.

No money changes hands betweent the countries.. They all just to agree to deliever mail from the other country in exchange for their outgoing mail being delievered in the US.

Beautiful.

Edited by Eddgie (10/13/13 11:40 AM)


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maknewtnut
Member
*****

Reged: 10/08/06

Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: blueman]
      #6134810 - 10/13/13 11:33 AM

Quote:

There are reasons why some do not wish to sell outside the US.
1) people are always asking you to lie about the value or to say it is a gift

2) you have to fill out paperwork and stand in line to ship to another country, including Canada.

3) there can be very long delays in customs, weeks! I have had this happen when I shipped to Canada. The buyer was getting upset because the package just disappeared when it hit customs. He bugged me for a refund. I told him not until it is declared lost. The item showed up four weeks later, it was in customs the entire time.
Blueman




Floyd's experience mirrors mine. I have shipped all over the world. Yes, there is a little extra time involved with customs forms, but it's really not tough to do. Properly packing an instrument for shipping is far more time consuming, which is the same whether it's travel will be a couple hundred miles or to another continent.

In respect to Canadian bound shipments, it's quite simple. As a recipient, be prepared to wait...or not. It seems to be a *BLEEP* shoot with Can customs brokers. Smaller items sent via postal services often see no delay at all, but can be held up for weeks. Larger items sent via parcel carriers often get held up, but once in a while are delivered immediately. There seems to be no rhyme or reason.

The biggest hassle is the request to fill out customs and insurance forms stating the items is a gift and grossly understate it's value. I've seen several folks back out of a deal when I refused to go along with their scam. Two became vulgar and cursed me, as if I was the one not 'getting it'. The reasons to avoid misrepresentations on customs and insurance forms are simple.

1) It's illegal. Customs forms require the applicant's signature, with the fine printing stating that the signature is your claim that the entries are accurate. While rarely enforced as far as I know, you can bet that if something goes wrong the seller will be behind the 8 ball from the start (of what will be a long, ugly hassle).

2)Whether it might be a damage claim or a lost package, the insured value and the value declared on a customs form MUST match. I've experienced shipping company websites that will not allow a planned shipment to complete processing when the insured value and the declared value to not match. If something happens, it's the seller that will be faced with a total loss. The recipient is practically guaranteed to ask for their money back, even when it was they who specifically asked for the scam to begin with.

It's a lose-lose proposition for a seller to play along with a buyer requested scam.


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csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: maknewtnut]
      #6134838 - 10/13/13 11:48 AM

Mark, excellent post explaining the misrepresentation of the value of items.

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blueman
Photon Catcher
*****

Reged: 07/20/07

Loc: California
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: maknewtnut]
      #6134998 - 10/13/13 01:19 PM

Yup! That is it exactly. I have had several shipments take weeks and others go right through to Canada. I shipped to Italy in 6 days, but Canada 6 weeks!

Now I just don't like the metal anguish I have to go through.
Blueman
Quote:

Quote:

There are reasons why some do not wish to sell outside the US.
1) people are always asking you to lie about the value or to say it is a gift

2) you have to fill out paperwork and stand in line to ship to another country, including Canada.

3) there can be very long delays in customs, weeks! I have had this happen when I shipped to Canada. The buyer was getting upset because the package just disappeared when it hit customs. He bugged me for a refund. I told him not until it is declared lost. The item showed up four weeks later, it was in customs the entire time.
Blueman




Floyd's experience mirrors mine. I have shipped all over the world. Yes, there is a little extra time involved with customs forms, but it's really not tough to do. Properly packing an instrument for shipping is far more time consuming, which is the same whether it's travel will be a couple hundred miles or to another continent.

In respect to Canadian bound shipments, it's quite simple. As a recipient, be prepared to wait...or not. It seems to be a *BLEEP* shoot with Can customs brokers. Smaller items sent via postal services often see no delay at all, but can be held up for weeks. Larger items sent via parcel carriers often get held up, but once in a while are delivered immediately. There seems to be no rhyme or reason.

The biggest hassle is the request to fill out customs and insurance forms stating the items is a gift and grossly understate it's value. I've seen several folks back out of a deal when I refused to go along with their scam. Two became vulgar and cursed me, as if I was the one not 'getting it'. The reasons to avoid misrepresentations on customs and insurance forms are simple.

1) It's illegal. Customs forms require the applicant's signature, with the fine printing stating that the signature is your claim that the entries are accurate. While rarely enforced as far as I know, you can bet that if something goes wrong the seller will be behind the 8 ball from the start (of what will be a long, ugly hassle).

2)Whether it might be a damage claim or a lost package, the insured value and the value declared on a customs form MUST match. I've experienced shipping company websites that will not allow a planned shipment to complete processing when the insured value and the declared value to not match. If something happens, it's the seller that will be faced with a total loss. The recipient is practically guaranteed to ask for their money back, even when it was they who specifically asked for the scam to begin with.

It's a lose-lose proposition for a seller to play along with a buyer requested scam.




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ukcanuck
Vendor (Skylight Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 11/07/06

Loc: London, UK
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: blueman]
      #6135102 - 10/13/13 02:04 PM

I've shipped around the globe...so shipping across borders doesn't bother me.

I'm something of a magpie, so I find it personally interesting to see some of the nice gear that comes up in the USA & Canada. Some of the ads invariably contain the phrase CONUS only. England is seriously far outside these boundaries ...so I just rule these out and don't get stressed about it.

However, there have been one or two that have said CONUS only...but I really wanted them! So, in these few circumstances, I have sent a short, polite message expressing my personal interest, and reassuring the seller that I'm prepared for the extra expense, challenges, potential delays & any incoming tax/duty...and that I won't ask them to falsify documentation.

Ultimately though, it's the sellers' call and while this doesn't always reassure them enough...it has once or twice, leaving us both happy. While this doesn't fix the problem of the opening post, I don't think it hurts to politely ask.



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nicknacknock
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 02/20/12

Loc: In a galaxy far far away...
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: ukcanuck]
      #6135147 - 10/13/13 02:29 PM

Well, living waaaaay across the pond (little island in the Mediterranean Sea called Cyprus), I found that the easiest way is to use MyUS who forward everything to me.

Most of my gear has been purchased like this from the US and their shipping is lower than any comparable shipping quotes I got from sellers, simply cause you get a discounted rate due to the sheer volume of goods they ship.

You have a choice between DHL and FEDEX for shipping. They do all the customs forms and pay taxes and I just pay the delivery man once I get my stuff..


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: nicknacknock]
      #6135241 - 10/13/13 03:25 PM

Well, I dunn'o. My recent experiences have been so negative that I don't see the "politely ask" modus operandi as worth pursuing.

I've politely asked "will you ship to Canada," and not gotten even a reply twice in the past week! And these were for listings that didn't even state "CONUS only." Now I won't say this is "normal." I don't have a whole lot of transactions to do a sound statistical analysis. Maybe it's just been " a bad week!"

But, mirable dictu, I have just concluded a deal on the Canadian board for a TV 35mm Panoptic.

The Astromart listing for a 35 Pan was one of the ones where I didn't even get a reply from the seller. His ad stated only
Quote:

I'll pay shipping to CONUS



I didn't even take that to mean "CONUS only."
But when I replied to the ad, asking "will you ship to Canada" . . . nothing! No reply at all.

While I appreciate some of my knotheaded countrymen feel free to ask for falsified declarations, I certainly never have asked a seller to do any such thing. I will admit to a certain glee when customs let a package through without levying the 15% HST, but I've never tried to evade it with a falsified declaration. And compatriots who do make sellers uncomfortable with such requests are part of the problem, as we've seen here.
DON'T BE ASKIN' SELLERS TO LIE FOR YOUR BENEFIT!
You're just lousin' it up for the rest of us when you do that!
And I'm no "Goody Two Shoes" either. Just I don't ask other people to get dirty for my benefit.


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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
*****

Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: blueman]
      #6135242 - 10/13/13 03:25 PM

Quote:

There are reasons why some do not wish to sell outside the US.
1) people are always asking you to lie about the value or to say it is a gift

2) you have to fill out paperwork and stand in line to ship to another country, including Canada.

3) there can be very long delays in customs, weeks! I have had this happen when I shipped to Canada. The buyer was getting upset because the package just disappeared when it hit customs. He bugged me for a refund. I told him not until it is declared lost. The item showed up four weeks later, it was in customs the entire time.
Blueman




Yes, these are the issues for some people. It's not worth breaking the law to send something.

If you do the paperwork on line it is simple and fast, as long as you use USPS. However, if you are sending something large and need to use FedEx or UPS, then the paperwork can be a pain. In addition, many things can go through customs without duty charged when shipped by USPS, but when shipped by UPS or FedEx, they charge both the duty and brokerage fees even if the item is something that should be exempted (like optical telescope equipment). While this isn't a problem for the seller/shipper, it is for the buyer/receiver since they will often bill the receiver for the duty and brokerage fees after the fact so that they don't even know that you are going to incur these costs at the time they accept the package. This goes for shipping both from and to the US (for Canada or other countries).

Customs is a crapshoot. You never know when things will fall into a black hole for weeks and there is no way to find them when they do. There are countries far worse about this than Canadian customs though. Something will generally go through much faster if sent by Express Mail International than by just about any other service, but packages sent that way will more frequently be assessed duty than packages sent by slower methods. Again, the problem is really for the buyer/receiver in this case rather than the seller/sender, but an impatient buyer who wants to blame the delay on the seller can certainly put someone off of shipping outside the CONUS.

I send stuff, used and new, all over the place all the time and have no problem doing it because as the seller/sender I don't see any hassle, but the declared amounts must be correct, especially when you are in business. The frustrating thing for me is never having any idea how long something will take to get to its non-CONUS destination and how much it will cost the receiver in duty charges. Some countries are as high as 50%.


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: EFT]
      #6135276 - 10/13/13 03:43 PM

Well, it ain't germane to the thread topic.

But soon (please let it be soon!!!) I'll be getting an AP1100 shipped to Canada.

While I am eager and enthusiastic to get this mount, I am also afraid. I'm VERY afraid!

The 15% percent GST hit, while I am not looking forward to, I know will happen and I can live with.

It's what other fees I might encounter on this $9,000 shipment that have me afraid.

It's tough to be Canadian!

Edited by dawziecat (10/13/13 03:44 PM)


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: tomcody]
      #6135287 - 10/13/13 03:52 PM

Quote:


As a possible solution, we could eliminate the borders, how do you and your fellow Canadians feel about joining us? we could use five or six more states in the US and you could join in the fun with representatives in Washington!
Rex




On second thought, there is no way in Hades you'd be willing to put up with us! The French guys would be demanding all your politicians speak French. The guys out west would be seceding. It'd be chaos!

Your politics IS a lot more fun though!
Our politics is so, well . . . . BORING!


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Daniel Guzas
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 11/20/10

Loc: Bethlehem NH/ Boston MA
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6135317 - 10/13/13 04:07 PM

I do understand your frustration. I make every effort to give anyone and everyone a prompt a clear response to my ads. Whether they are in the Conus or not.... I say in all of my ads that I will pay for shipping in the conus... But outside of that I will ask the buyer for the shipping.... Or at least the difference between the conus cost and the additional " international" cost...

Each time I asked for the additional cost for the shipping outside the US the buyer decided it was not worth the extra $$. So be it... It's up to them...no skin off my nose...

However one fellow said he didn't know why it was so expensive to ship items as he regularly received item from the US for $15-$20. I was quoting him a $40 shipping cost for Binoviewers... This was to continental Europe... I said I don't see what I can do to reduce the cost... He suggested I send the binoviewers in a bubble wrapped envelope.. That would be cheaper...

Ummm no way.... Is basically what I told him... But it's all up to the seller to do what he or she feels comfortable doing...I regularly do a lot of leg work to see if I can get the item to someone outside the US just because I would like others to do the same for me...

But a binoviewer in a padded folder??. That was just too silly... But this wouldn't deter me from selling outside the US...


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