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tomcody
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/06/08

Loc: Titusville, Florida
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6135526 - 10/13/13 06:05 PM


Quote:


On second thought, there is no way in Hades you'd be willing to put up with us! The French guys would be demanding all your politicians speak French. The guys out west would be seceding. It'd be chaos!

Your politics IS a lot more fun though!
Our politics is so, well . . . . BORING!



Other than us learning to say "Eh" all the time, what would be different Eh?
Rex


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csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: tomcody]
      #6135715 - 10/13/13 07:48 PM

More green bottle beer?

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M13 Observer
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/09/06

Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6135858 - 10/13/13 09:16 PM

Quote:

Well, it ain't germane to the thread topic.

But soon (please let it be soon!!!) I'll be getting an AP1100 shipped to Canada.

While I am eager and enthusiastic to get this mount, I am also afraid. I'm VERY afraid!

The 15% percent GST hit, while I am not looking forward to, I know will happen and I can live with.

It's what other fees I might encounter on this $9,000 shipment that have me afraid.

It's tough to be Canadian!




I wouldn't worry about it. The people at Astro-Physics know what they are doing. Last time AP recommended, and I chose Fedex as they were running a "special" rate and it worked out very well. With both Fedex or UPS, do NOT chose the base (cheap) rate as they do NOT include brokerage and the associated brokerage fees. Any of the upscale "expedited" and above (if I recall properly) rates include brokerage services and fees.


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starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: csrlice12]
      #6135930 - 10/13/13 10:06 PM

That's what makes it Skunky .

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Mariner@sg
sage
*****

Reged: 06/28/12

Loc: Little Red Dot
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6135944 - 10/13/13 10:12 PM

Quote:

Well, I dunn'o. My recent experiences have been so negative that I don't see the "politely ask" modus operandi as worth pursuing.

I've politely asked "will you ship to Canada," and not gotten even a reply twice in the past week! And these were for listings that didn't even state "CONUS only." Now I won't say this is "normal." I don't have a whole lot of transactions to do a sound statistical analysis. Maybe it's just been " a bad week!"

But, mirable dictu, I have just concluded a deal on the Canadian board for a TV 35mm Panoptic.

The Astromart listing for a 35 Pan was one of the ones where I didn't even get a reply from the seller. His ad stated only
Quote:

I'll pay shipping to CONUS



I didn't even take that to mean "CONUS only."
But when I replied to the ad, asking "will you ship to Canada" . . . nothing! No reply at all.

While I appreciate some of my knotheaded countrymen feel free to ask for falsified declarations, I certainly never have asked a seller to do any such thing. I will admit to a certain glee when customs let a package through without levying the 15% HST, but I've never tried to evade it with a falsified declaration. And compatriots who do make sellers uncomfortable with such requests are part of the problem, as we've seen here.
DON'T BE ASKIN' SELLERS TO LIE FOR YOUR BENEFIT!
You're just lousin' it up for the rest of us when you do that!
And I'm no "Goody Two Shoes" either. Just I don't ask other people to get dirty for my benefit.




The "politely ask" modus operandi has a 50-50 rate. Politeness is a plus and has always been my golden rule in making contact about a possible deal but I have had rejections even from Canadian sellers...

I find that maintaining a good rating is probably a better bet to persuade US sellers that shipping to this overseas bloke on a little red dot somewhere on the other side of the globe is not a scam.


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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
*****

Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Mariner@sg]
      #6135992 - 10/13/13 10:32 PM

As was just mentioned in another thread, you can set up an account with a freight forwarder in the US and have things sent to them and then forwarded to you. I'm sure that there is a cost to this service, but it might be less expensive than sending things directly sometimes. In any case, you would also be shipping to a CONUS address so a seller shouldn't have a problem that you are outside the US.

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Cotts
Just Wondering
*****

Reged: 10/10/05

Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Mariner@sg]
      #6136021 - 10/13/13 10:45 PM

Well, I've been fortunate with deals going either way.

There's never been a problem with my sending to the USA. FedEx if it is large or Canada Post - USPS for small packages.

For my purchases from the US I politely ask if they would waive the 'CONUS Only" restriction. If they say 'no', (their right to do so) I offer them the chance to send it to a friend of mine in Buffalo NY. It is easy for me to go get it and back in an afternoon, not to mention some great wings at the Anchor Bar!!! A few folks have still said 'no' (but I can't imagine why....) but most have no problem with it.

I've also had stuff shipped to me at a Star Party while I was there. Once, I drove from Toronto to Albany NY to pick up my TEC 8". 500 mile round trip and a night in a motel - cheaper than shipping.

I just try to be creative about making the deal work. For instance, I will soon be offering a few small items on AM and I will offer to deliver if the person is reasonably close to a line joining Toronto and Florida since I'll be attending the Chiefland Fall S.P. But sometimes it doesn't work out. Not a total loss.

I've never asked an American seller to lie about the value. That's wrong on many levels. If I have to pay taxes I'm prepared for it....

Dave.


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Full Sun
super member
*****

Reged: 11/19/06

Loc: Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Cotts]
      #6136691 - 10/14/13 11:17 AM

Dave
I think you have frayed some typical Canadian nerve and brought in some moral and ethical questions for otherwise honest cross border shoppers ,dealing with aquisition of used items.
If the charge that asking for a lesser declaration for a private tranasaction -than I plead guilty as a repeat offender. Please consider this as a partial rationalization for this request.
- items valued under 75. Dollars clear very quickly through customs without the sometime long delays.
- requested lower value declaration does also lower the insurance costs for the seller. All the risk in shipping maladies is therefore assumed by the Canadian buyer. Insurance collection is also not guaranteed in either case.
- may I remind you that these are used items being traded from private transactions. I am not convinced that government has proper juristiction to collect renumeration if I have bought, or sold an item ,shipped from one basement to another especially from another country.
- Canadians are not more or less honest than any other nationality as we are not always buyers but just as often suppliers to our American cousins who do not have to deal with this ridiculous tax grab.
- Items are often imported new from American retailers in which case I have no argument as it protects good Canadian Retailers from an imbalance in the marketplace.
- The request to discount is just that; a request.
I may have offended some in doing so and hope that by offering another
perspective , this can at lease soften the tone of the debate.

Cheers and Clears
J.

Edited by Full Sun (10/14/13 01:00 PM)


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csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Full Sun]
      #6136725 - 10/14/13 11:35 AM

No matter how one rationalizes using a lower price than the actual price; it's dishonest, and the shipper is signing his name to a document stating that this is the true price. I myself would not agree to show a different price other than the true one, on documents; regardless of how small the chance of being caught is. It's comes down to what you stated; "moral and ethical".

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corpusse
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/11/10

Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Full Sun]
      #6136747 - 10/14/13 11:44 AM

I agree 100% with full sun. If I was buying a new ap mount sure I'd expect considerable taxes and brokerage. Even a new accessory from astronomics or opt, but buying used its rediculous that we pay sales tax on them! Although if we send to the us they don't have to pay tax. It only works one way.

I would never ask a store but I would ask a person for above reasons. It's a stupid regulation. Especially when you may get lucky anyway but you might get nailed.


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: csa/montana]
      #6136755 - 10/14/13 11:47 AM

Quote:

No matter how one rationalizes using a lower price than the actual price; it's dishonest, and the shipper is signing his name to a document stating that this is the true price. I myself would not agree to show a different price other than the true one, on documents; regardless of how small the chance of being caught is. It's comes down to what you stated; "moral and ethical".






In my mind, asking me to be dishonest on the customs form, that's a deal killer. It might seem like a request to the buyer but it's a request from someone I don't really know to do something they shouldn't be asking me to do. That's not good form...

Jon


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Robo-bob
sage


Reged: 05/02/05

Loc: Central Alberta
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6136791 - 10/14/13 12:06 PM

As a Canadian, I will NOT request a lower declaration because it is simply illegal (not to mention unethical). Regardless of how one feels about paying this tax, the law is clear. If you can't afford to pay the few extra bucks in tax, you probably shouldn't be buying the item in question. It's precisely these kind of requests that turn a lot of American sellers off from Canadian buyers. I don't blame them. I would be frustrated also.

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bunyon
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/23/10

Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: csa/montana]
      #6136797 - 10/14/13 12:08 PM

I'm another American shipper who puts CONUS in his ads. I do phrase it as "will pay shipping in CONUS" meaning, you're free to inquire from outside but I'm paying none of the shipping or fees if we make a deal. I started that after simply putting "will pay shipping" in an ad and had a guy in Asia want me to pay. I refused which may technically have been unethical (I've never been sure) but the shipping was more than I'd have been paid for the piece.

Cotts, your request to "ship to a friend" makes a lot of sense and, as someone who has met you, I'd do it. But it's also a hallmark of skeezy internet scams where a request is made for delivery to a third party. If I didn't know you, I'd probably say no to that as well.


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: bunyon]
      #6136858 - 10/14/13 12:30 PM

There are about a gazzilion imbalances in the system that disadvantge Canadians in the international marketplace. I hate 'em all!

Most unfortunately though, they are legally imposed upon us . . . largely at the behest of monied lobby groups that have a $$$ interest in preserving the staus quo.

The Canadian consumer has been raped and pilloried forever! It is actually BETTER now than it was a half century ago.

Why we tolerate it, I don't know. It is discouraging. We've seen it surface briefly in the news media (non-competition in wireless industry . . . disparity in the cost of cars) but it quickly fades away as the journalists move on and nothing changes. There is no strong voice for the consumer in our system. I've heard all the specious justifications why it has to be this way. I believe none of them. It is protectionism plain and simple. Always has been. Wonder who contributes to the politicians' war chests?

That I can't fix it, and find it rapacious doesn't change the fact it is not quite right to ask an American seller to misrepresent the dollar value in a declaration.

(Oh, my! I seem to have produced a rant. )

Edited by dawziecat (10/14/13 02:56 PM)


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junomike
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/07/09

Loc: Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6136894 - 10/14/13 12:44 PM

Being an active Canadian "used" Astro-Gear purchaser, I can see both sides to this argument. I would however like to ask one question to those coming down on "Full Sun".

When you buy an Astro Item (scope, eyepiece, etc) and make a profit, do you report It on your income tax?
If not, that's no different than what he's stating.

Remember that the next time you get a great deal and flip It for a tidy profit!

Mike


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: junomike]
      #6136904 - 10/14/13 12:51 PM

Quote:


When you buy an Astro Item (scope, eyepiece, etc) and make a profit, do you report It on your income tax?
If not, that's no different than what he's stating.




It's TOTALLY different! At least it is as I see it.
The parallel is getting dirty yourself vs pulling another party into the mud with you.


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csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6136929 - 10/14/13 01:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:


When you buy an Astro Item (scope, eyepiece, etc) and make a profit, do you report It on your income tax?
If not, that's no different than what he's stating.




It's TOTALLY different! At least it is as I see it.
The parallel is getting dirty yourself vs pulling another party into the mud with you.




+1 What one does for themselves is quite different from asking another to share in their dishonesty.


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junomike
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/07/09

Loc: Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6136956 - 10/14/13 01:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:


When you buy an Astro Item (scope, eyepiece, etc) and make a profit, do you report It on your income tax?
If not, that's no different than what he's stating.




It's TOTALLY different! At least it is as I see it.
The parallel is getting dirty yourself vs pulling another party into the mud with you.




I'm not sure how different It is, but how about this scenario. You buy a $5000 Tak from someone in the US and pick It up. At the Border you pay the applicable taxes.
Now If I (also in Canada) were to ship you that same scope what would you pay? Nothing? Why? Well the premise is that I already paid the taxes on It once so you don't have to.

As for "pulling someone in with you", that's a whole different issue. No one should have to do anything they aren't comfortable with.

Mike


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Cotts
Just Wondering
*****

Reged: 10/10/05

Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: bunyon]
      #6137229 - 10/14/13 02:53 PM

Paul, as for shipping to my American Friend in Buffalo, he is the proprietor of an internationally-known Astronomical Accessories firm and is far better known in the community than I am. Shipping to him wouldn't look so skeezy, I suspect. As well, no one ships till my payment clears so how could the American seller go wrong?

Also there is a business in Niagara Falls N.Y. which specializes in receiving packages (name forgotten at the moment...). Its entire business plan rests on Canadians using that as a shipping address and taking the package across the border themselves....

This sort of manouever is quite common.

Dave


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mgwhittle
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 08/24/11

Loc: Chattanooga, TN
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: crazyqban]
      #6137956 - 10/14/13 10:05 PM

I used to sell and ship to Canada when I lived near a post office in a medium sized town. Sold several items and it was not a big deal to fill out the form and ship something.

Now where I live, my post office is what I will nicely call "rural" and trying to ship abroad, even to Canada, seems to bring the whole operation to a screeching halt. I have also stopped taking Postal Money orders because I can't get them cashed there either.


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