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Equipment Discussions >> Equipment

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Bill Weir
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/01/04

Loc: Metchosin (Victoria), Canada
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6141896 - 10/16/13 09:56 PM

Quote:




In the past month or so though, I have landed a 4.5 and a 6mm Delos, as well as a 35mm Pan on the CDN board.

Thanks, Mike!




Is this the same site you previously called pathetic or is there some other CDN site I don't know about? ; )

Regarding the lack of courtesy when requsting resonses it is important to remember this is the internet. It abounds with rude inconsiderate individuals. I think your hurt feelings around these lackings of courtesy towards you speak to your good character. In the end though don't let it bother you it's just the way some people are. That or I just might have to order you a big platter of cheese to go with your whine. : )

Bill


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Mariner@sg
sage
*****

Reged: 06/28/12

Loc: Little Red Dot
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Bill Weir]
      #6141955 - 10/16/13 10:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:




In the past month or so though, I have landed a 4.5 and a 6mm Delos, as well as a 35mm Pan on the CDN board.

Thanks, Mike!




Is this the same site you previously called pathetic or is there some other CDN site I don't know about? ; )

Regarding the lack of courtesy when requsting resonses it is important to remember this is the internet. It abounds with rude inconsiderate individuals. I think your hurt feelings around these lackings of courtesy towards you speak to your good character. In the end though don't let it bother you it's just the way some people are. That or I just might have to order you a big platter of cheese to go with your whine. : )

Bill




Oh come on. Don't cheese him off like that!


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Cotts
Just Wondering
*****

Reged: 10/10/05

Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: TG]
      #6141956 - 10/16/13 10:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Paul, as for shipping to my American Friend in Buffalo, he is the proprietor of an internationally-known Astronomical Accessories firm and is far better known in the community than I am. Shipping to him wouldn't look so skeezy, I suspect. As well, no one ships till my payment clears so how could the American seller go wrong?

Dave




If I, the seller, don't know you, how can I be sure that you aren't paying with a stolen/forged check or credit card when you're asking me to ship to a different address? For stolen credit cards, there is protection for the buyer but I don't think any for the seller. For the bad check, you are simply out of luck if you ship before it clears.

Tanveer.




Tanveer, read my last sentence you quoted above. I would never expect anyone to ship anything until my payment had cleared. And no one does in the AM and CN Classifieds.

Also, for those 'who don't know someone' check their ratings.........

Dave


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bunyon
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/23/10

Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Cotts]
      #6141977 - 10/16/13 10:33 PM

Right, Dave. If someone pays and it clears, I'd ship to a third party, especially if ratings are good. I was just pointing out that the request has a sound similar to a lot of scams and might turn some people off. I wasn't trying to imply you were engaged in any shady dealings.

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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: bunyon]
      #6142016 - 10/16/13 10:58 PM

Actually, with Paypal, it seems payment is NEVER really cleared! Unlike a check.
No one here ever had a chargeback?


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Cotts
Just Wondering
*****

Reged: 10/10/05

Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: bunyon]
      #6142043 - 10/16/13 11:19 PM

Quote:

Right, Dave. If someone pays and it clears, I'd ship to a third party, especially if ratings are good. I was just pointing out that the request has a sound similar to a lot of scams and might turn some people off. I wasn't trying to imply you were engaged in any shady dealings.




No, I wasn't worried about that. No prob.

I have bought and sold a fair amount of expensive gear across our mutual border and I have never been told 'no' by an American. That said, I have often had to exchange a great number of emails and/or phone calls with my American colleagues to assuage fears, explain things and teach them that virtually ALL the pain, extra work and extra expense is borne by the Canadian partner and we don't mind!!! We lap it up to get that piece of gear we covet.

I have had someone send me a money order that clearly stated on the front, "Not Negotiable Outside the USA". He was surprised when I sent it back and asked him for an international money order. I have had someone purchase an expensive scope from me and be very surprised that the US govt. wanted a couple of hundred bucks in duty/tariff because the scope was Japanese in origin. He actually tried to make me pay it!! Not my problem and welcome to my world. Again, a teachable moment.

I have had good results, eventually, because I am able to show my American partners how easy it is for them, even if it is difficult for me.

Dave


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Full Sun
super member
*****

Reged: 11/19/06

Loc: Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6142051 - 10/16/13 11:27 PM

I have had good success converting 'Conus' only sellers. A reply with a firm offer for the item at full price plus added shipping , followed by quick PP payment has been quite successful in eliminating artificial trade restrictions.
Having said that , I am happy that I am not now starting out in the equipment acquisition journey. One needs a trusted local retailer and a large population of enablers when the obsession starts to drain all of your disposable income.


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: TG]
      #6142407 - 10/17/13 08:07 AM

Quote:

If I, the seller, don't know you, how can I be sure that you aren't paying with a stolen/forged check or credit card when you're asking me to ship to a different address? For stolen credit cards, there is protection for the buyer but I don't think any for the seller. For the bad check, you are simply out of luck if you ship before it clears.

Tanveer




I think we are talking about Dave selling stuff on Astromart... No aliases, verified ID, you screw up and you're gone for good...

If you are selling Dave something and are concerned, you ask for payment via a USPS money order or something you are comfortable with, you wait until everything has cleared, the money is in your hands, then you ship.

I don't worry about stolen credit cards or fake cashiers checks because I don't do credit cards or cashiers checks.

Jon


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Cotts]
      #6142531 - 10/17/13 09:39 AM

Quote:

Tanveer, read my last sentence you quoted above. I would never expect anyone to ship anything until my payment had cleared. And no one does in the AM and CN Classifieds.
Dave




I have shipped prior to receiving payment. Depends. With Paypal, of course, payment is "instantaneous," more or less and that issue never arises.

Just did a transaction with a seller who preferred a postal MO. After I said, "MO is in the mail," he shipped immediately.

Now, I may not be the most experienced internet seller/buyer in the world. But I've likely done more than my share. I've had sales go awry for several reasons but, long, ago, I gave up thinking at the other end of every transaction, be it buying or selling, was a cad figuring out how to cheat me.

Hasn't happened. Did have someone try to cheat me. It was a Snoopy wastebasket for about $30. Seller disappeared. No wastebasket arrived. Ebay refunded my money. No big deal. Total number of transactions . . . maybe two hundred. Max value? Many more than a kilobuck! Highest amount? About $8,000.

Sure, next time out, maybe I'll get cheated . . .it COULD happen. I am not totally insousciant as to the risk but I think it's small.


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6143418 - 10/17/13 05:57 PM

Quote:


I have shipped prior to receiving payment.




In general, I think is probably not the wisest thing to ship before receiving payment...

But more importantly, I think if one does sometimes ship before receiving payment, it probably not so wise to advertise that fact...

Jon


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okieav8r
I'd rather be flying!
*****

Reged: 03/01/09

Loc: Oklahoma!
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6143501 - 10/17/13 06:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:


I have shipped prior to receiving payment.




In general, I think is probably not the wisest thing to ship before receiving payment...

But more importantly, I think if one does sometimes ship before receiving payment, it probably not so wise to advertise that fact...

Jon




I've done it a few times with A-mart'ers who had good ratings histories, and I've done business with sellers who shipped to me before they received my payment. Worked out fine, but I wouldn't do it with someone if they didn't have a good ratings history or if I hadn't done business with them before. I doubt I'd do it on a big-ticket item, as all of the transactions like this that I've been involved with have been low-cost items.


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k9yr
super member
*****

Reged: 05/21/08

Loc: Far North suburbs of Chicago
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: okieav8r]
      #6143852 - 10/17/13 10:05 PM

Kinda related, I ordered an Alt Az mount from Canadian Telescopes which offers free shipping in Canada, however because I'm in the US in Illinois I had to pick up the $75 shipping charge. Then when UPS showed up with my mount I had to pay UPS an additional $25.

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Blake Andrews
sage
*****

Reged: 07/31/08

Loc: Iowa
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: k9yr]
      #6143966 - 10/17/13 11:21 PM

I want to thank everyone that has contributed their experiences to this thread. It's been so informative that I've added it to my favorites list.

I will say that while I'm more on the buying side than the selling side right now, I've repeatedly done business in Canada, UK and Australia with no issues and would happily sell to folks in these countries. My purchases have ranged from delicate optics to fine china from each. Each transaction has taught me that there are a lot of really nice folks around the globe and it is a pleasure to meet them. I still get a Christmas Postcard from a lady in Australia that we bought some china from!

When I do finally start selling, I hope I've learned a thing or two about how to do it in a way that sets proper expectations for both parties and minimizes the risks for both.

Thanks again to all that have shared your experiences!

Cheers!
Blake


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TG
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/02/06

Loc: Latitude 47
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Cotts]
      #6144214 - 10/18/13 03:33 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Paul, as for shipping to my American Friend in Buffalo, he is the proprietor of an internationally-known Astronomical Accessories firm and is far better known in the community than I am. Shipping to him wouldn't look so skeezy, I suspect. As well, no one ships till my payment clears so how could the American seller go wrong?

Dave




If I, the seller, don't know you, how can I be sure that you aren't paying with a stolen/forged check or credit card when you're asking me to ship to a different address? For stolen credit cards, there is protection for the buyer but I don't think any for the seller. For the bad check, you are simply out of luck if you ship before it clears.

Tanveer.




Tanveer, read my last sentence you quoted above. I would never expect anyone to ship anything until my payment had cleared. And no one does in the AM and CN Classifieds.

Also, for those 'who don't know someone' check their ratings.........

Dave




I don't mean to be argumentative but:

- Typically banks will make funds available when you deposit a check and if it turns out to be forged, they'll reverse the deposit and this can be weeks later. No one's going to wait that long to ship and most everybody assumes that once the funds show up in your account the check has 'cleared'. For certified checks, one almost never waits for it to clear. As for who ships before payment, I've had a gentleman or two ship before my payment reached them and I've done the same recently when the buyer told me he'd mailed me an MO. The items involved were sub $250 items though and it wasn't worth worrying about them. I for sure would not do this for $5000 items.

- Your account can be compromised. You may think your password is secure but just read this to shake your confidence in passwords. All it takes is for the site's password hashes to be stolen. This has happened to numerous big name companies who drop big bucks on security. Consider that small operations can't afford to spend too much on security and one sees the problem.

Having someone request shipping to a 3rd party address raises immediate red flags for me. I wouldn't make a deal without talking on the phone.

Tanveer.


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BSJ
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/22/08

Loc: Grand Isle, VT
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: TG]
      #6144338 - 10/18/13 07:41 AM

Yep, the funds showing up is not the same as cleared! It can bounce WEEKS later and you're stuck with little recourse. If you “spend” it right away and then it bounces, you’re stuck with the overdraft fees and problems!

I took a personal check, once. What a hassle.

The bank's phone number on the check, was not the payee's local bank. It was the "headquarters" in another state, but they didn't know the number for his local bank.

After hours of research, I did find the number. And even then, they would only tell me that there was money in the account. But not if any stop payment or any other funny business was possible. NEVER again!!!

US Postal Money orders or nothing for me. If they won't take that as payment, or don't want to send one to me, then it's no deal. I miss out on stuff sometimes, but life is too short to deal with the problems...


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: BSJ]
      #6144443 - 10/18/13 08:59 AM

One thing missing from this "getting cheated" is consideration of the fact that the folks who won't ship before receiving payment, won't do Paypal or personal checks, etc, is that, while they demand near absolute security for themselves, they totally forget both parties are always at risk in these transactions.

You insist you have absolute control over my money before you ship. Good for you. Not so good for me. Then you turn around and don't ship anything, or ship a brick.

If someone doesn't take a risk, no sale is possible. I guess caveat emptor ever applies but I am unsure how we reached the point on the internet that the the buyer always has to assume the lion's share of the risk. It's true that feedback ratings are there to help. But we all start with zero feedback.

Back to the thread topic: Last night I was contacted by a US seller responding to a want ad I posted a couple of weeks back. We quickly concluded a deal. So, my account does work fine. The last several times out, when I received no reply at all from several different sellers in succession, was, perhaps, just an unfortunate aberration.
I hope so.


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: TG]
      #6144521 - 10/18/13 09:47 AM

Quote:


Having someone request shipping to a 3rd party address raises immediate red flags for me. I wouldn't make a deal without talking on the phone.




For me, it depends on the venue. Astromart, someone with 100 transactions or someone who has been a member for a while, I am not concerned. Unlike venues where people primarily use aliases, (Ebay, CN), when people use their real names and those ratings stick with that name, I am comfortable.

But then, I rarely sell, I mostly just give stuff away.

Jon


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6144550 - 10/18/13 10:06 AM

Quote:

I mostly just give stuff away.

Jon




Ummm . . . got a 22mm Nagler lying around? and, ummm . . . do you ship to Canada?


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: k9yr]
      #6144558 - 10/18/13 10:10 AM

Quote:

Kinda related, I ordered an Alt Az mount from Canadian Telescopes which offers free shipping in Canada, however because I'm in the US in Illinois I had to pick up the $75 shipping charge. Then when UPS showed up with my mount I had to pay UPS an additional $25.




Of course, this is just "standard operating procedure" that every Canadian ordering from the US experiences as a matter of course.

Buy why in hades would an American EVER order a mount from a Canadian retailer?

Only thing Americans should EVER order from Canada is maple syrup. Oh, wait, I forgot. New England has great maple syrup!

Edited by dawziecat (10/18/13 10:13 AM)


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csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. [Re: dawziecat]
      #6144568 - 10/18/13 10:18 AM

I'm like Jon. While I would charge for an expensive item, for some things, like a stock diagonal, focuser, or non-premium eyepieces (like the Orion Expanses)I've just given them to people...they came with equipment purchases (scopes), so I really didn't feel I had anything invested in them anyway. I'm lucky enough to be able to afford higher end equipment, and would rather see stuff I will never use go to someone who can use it...

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