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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market.
      #6133132 - 10/12/13 01:50 PM

This is not new. I have been able to procure a few items on the used market from our American friends but, increasingly, all I see on Amart is "CONUS" only.

Not new but, also increasingly, the very same thing is occurring with ebay and even amazon.com. (Please don't even mention amazon.ca as they are a stench in the nostrils! Absolutely USELESS site!!! )

I recognize there isn't much to be done about it. I have decided I won't be renewing my Astromart account though as the continuing frustration make it unworthy of any fee. It occurs as frequently with the CN classifieds but, hey, they are free! Still frustrating though.

I wonder how other Canadians feel about this?

I've been a seller, as well as a buyer. I fully understand why US residents just don't want anything to do with selling outside the US. Especially when Canadians give them grief about high shipping costs and asking for falsification of declared values.

The effect is to make the classifieds a continuing frustration. They need an option (actually ebay.com does have one, sort of) to actually exclude listings that are "CONUS only." It makes no sense to a non-US resident to pay for a listing service where this is so common.

At least that's how I feel about it.

Edited by dawziecat (10/12/13 02:33 PM)


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csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6133224 - 10/12/13 02:50 PM

I just really can't believe our two governments couldn't get together and do some kind of reciprocal agreement between the two country's postal services. At least for postage. On Taxes/import fees...well, on that you'll have to deal with your local and national governments.

What with all the "free trade" agreements, I'm rather shocked that we can't deal across boarders with our closest neighbor and ally. But then, my friendly encounters with Canada was in the early 70s when I was stationed at St. Ste. Marie, MI. We would travel over into the Canadian side (Same city name, much larger city) all the time. Between the two cities, they accepted either US or Canadian $ at face value. Twas a much simpler time I guess....


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dan_h
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/10/07

Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6133294 - 10/12/13 03:37 PM

<< I recognize there isn't much to be done about it. >>

Yep. That about sums it up.

dan


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SteveG
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/27/06

Loc: Seattle, WA
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dan_h]
      #6133307 - 10/12/13 03:45 PM

Very sorry this is the case! I always offer my used gear to Canadians, but I realize others do not.

Just to be clear, if you're selling small stuff, eyepieces and small parts, there is no additional hassle for the seller to send to Canada. You will have a slightly higher cost, which I show in my ad. The buyer will also need to be patient. I've seen USPS add a week in transit time getting eyepieces up across the border.


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Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dan_h]
      #6133315 - 10/12/13 03:49 PM

We have the same situation in Europe, where Germans don't want to ship outside Germany, when selling on eBay. I mean, how hard can it be? It's not like you have to swim to get to my island... As soon as the package is in the hands of the postal service, it doesn't matter, whether the package goes to Gotha or Gudhjem, now, does it? I pay the freight anyway. But watch the Germans get infuriated, if someone sells a scope in Austria or Switzerland and don't want to ship outside their countries.

Sigh.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #6133389 - 10/12/13 04:29 PM

seems people like their kingdoms at all levels of life.....

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Jeff Morgan
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 09/28/03

Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6133452 - 10/12/13 05:16 PM

Quote:

This is not new. I have been able to procure a few items on the used market from our American friends but, increasingly, all I see on Amart is "CONUS" only.




It never hurts to ask.

I mark all of my ads CONUS, but that is just to give me some protection on shipping costs - which have been rocketing upwards the last few years. And international is even worse.

If a foreign buyer asks - and is willing to pay actual shipping costs - I will ship anywhere it is legal to do so. I have shipped items to France, Poland, and Canada.

In fact, my best Astromart sale ever was to a Canadian. (Check my Astromart profile for that one!)

Stephane L'Heureux bought a Schaefer AT9 mount and pedestal from me - all 275 pounds of it! He was incredibly prepared. I told him the number of boxes and the weights of each one. He filled out all of the shipping documents (pre-paid Fed-EX Ground) and emailed them to me. All I had to do (besides pack the beast - which I would have had to do anyway) was print, sign the copies, and take it all to Fed-Ex. Fed-Ex scanned the barcodes, affixed the labels, and I was out of there in less than 5 minutes. Easier than domestic!

Of course, not all foreign buyers are so prepared .... and expecting the seller to do all the research and legwork (let alone take the hit on shipping costs) is not very realistic. Much easier for the seller to wait a bit longer for a domestic buyer.


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frolinmod
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/06/10

Loc: Southern California
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: csrlice12]
      #6133457 - 10/12/13 05:20 PM

I've had no troubles shipping to Canada or to France via USPS Priority Mail. I did have to fill out a customs declaration form each time, but that's all. No big deal for me. I have no idea what pain the recipients may have gone through.

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skullpin
sage
*****

Reged: 03/13/09

Loc: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: frolinmod]
      #6133513 - 10/12/13 05:55 PM

An odd finding in the opposite direction: If a small box is less than 1kg, it is cheaper to send to US than domestically within Canada!!! Eyepieces and the like I advertize first on AM or CN. Heavier and larger things are a lot cheaper domestically, and I advertize them first on Canadian AstroBuySell. Curiously, many of my Canadian ABS ads are sold to the US with such buyers politely offering to cover extra shipping! Go figure.

Regarding buying from the US if the ad is marked CONUS, I typically offer the seller $20 extra for the "trouble" and they often bite.

Keith


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Bill Barlow
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/03/07

Loc: Overland Park KS
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: skullpin]
      #6133549 - 10/12/13 06:23 PM

I've sold several used astro items to Canadian's, including a Meade 10" ACF OTA, eyepieces and finder scopes with no problems whatsoever. I ship using USPS and haven't had any problems. It just takes a little longer to reach the buyer, but they already expect that. I would encourage other CN members to not be afraid to ship goods to Canada.

Bill


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Dwight J
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 05/14/09

Loc: Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Bill Barlow]
      #6133573 - 10/12/13 06:36 PM

Never had trouble yet. I volunteer to pay shipping or, since I live close to the border as most Canadians do, I use one of the shipping outlets which in my case is the "Montana Shipping Outlet". I then drive an hour, cross the border, pick up a 30 pack, and pick up my item at the outlet store. Never had to pay duty, etc either. Works great.

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Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: skullpin]
      #6133587 - 10/12/13 06:45 PM

Oddly enough, it's cheaper to get something shipped from Germany or Britain to Denmark, than it is to ship something within the borders of Denmark. I've bought spare parts and small farm equipment in both Germany and England and they ship it via postal service, because it's the cheapest option!

I'll never forget the looks on the face of the poor postman who had to drag the box with the two 7.50x18 front tires (about 40lbs, total!) from his car to my door. He really earned his money that day!


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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groz
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/14/07

Loc: Campbell River, BC
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #6133815 - 10/12/13 08:30 PM

I've had a couple folks refuse to ship north of 49th when asked, but most of them have no problem with it. We usually just have it sent 'plain old post office' and shipping really isn't a big deal for the little stuff. My experience is, the vast majority of stuff marked 'conus only' will happily put it in the post office coming north, we are after all still part of the same continent. In a couple cases they have commented on how surprised they were to realize, postage to Canada was hardly any different from postage to the USA. For little stuff, it's not a big deal.

I've shipped a few things south, and, never had a problem, again always using the 'plain old post office'.


For the couple of cases where folks down south flat out refused to ship north, no biggie. Another will come for sale soon, and, I'll just get it there. To be honest, I'd rather not send money to folks with that kind of an attitude


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sn1987a
member


Reged: 09/26/10

Loc: Western Australia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: groz]
      #6133847 - 10/12/13 08:50 PM

I've bought a quite a few items off Astromart over the years even an entire 18 Plettstone (thanks again Bill, love it); never had a problem. I accept it as a given that I pay the shipping, PayPal and any other costs. All my dealings with US sellers have been a delight.

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dan_h
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/10/07

Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: sn1987a]
      #6133905 - 10/12/13 09:26 PM

Quote:

I've bought a quite a few items off Astromart over the years even an entire 18 Plettstone (thanks again Bill, love it); never had a problem. I accept it as a given that I pay the shipping, PayPal and any other costs. All my dealings with US sellers have been a delight.




At one time I bought a lot of stuff from the US and most folks shipped to Canada quite happily. Even bought a scope, a 120mm f8. Seems the trend today is that many sellers who will post to Canada want to go with the priority post box for insurance and tracking but it is just way too expensive for smaller items. I won a few small auctions on AM last year but the shipping killed the joy. Even bargin stuff from Surplus Shed is no longer practical and at one time I bought a lot there. There are a few dealers who are good to work with but for most, it's FedEx or Priority Post; choose your poison.

dan


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mich_al
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/10/09

Loc: Rural central lower Michigan ...
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dan_h]
      #6133913 - 10/12/13 09:35 PM

I recently had to pass up a set of eyepieces I really wanted from the classifieds here. After I told the buyer 'I'll take them', who stated in the add -No FEES, , he came back to me with: Tell paypal it's a gift to avoid the fees AND it'll be XX dollars shipping cause he's in Canada.

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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: mich_al]
      #6133995 - 10/12/13 10:40 PM

Well, within just this past week, I've had FOUR negative experiences on Amart!

One, a "CONUS only." I didn't bother contacting him.
One an "if I can't get someone in the US, I'll get back to you." It's not what he said but it's pretty much what he meant.

And two with no reply at all to my inquiry . . . and those two were not even "CONUS only."

So, I've pretty well had it with the US classifieds.


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blueman
Photon Catcher
*****

Reged: 07/20/07

Loc: California
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6134074 - 10/12/13 11:43 PM

There are reasons why some do not wish to sell outside the US.
1) people are always asking you to lie about the value or to say it is a gift

2) you have to fill out paperwork and stand in line to ship to another country, including Canada.

3) there can be very long delays in customs, weeks! I have had this happen when I shipped to Canada. The buyer was getting upset because the package just disappeared when it hit customs. He bugged me for a refund. I told him not until it is declared lost. The item showed up four weeks later, it was in customs the entire time.
Blueman


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PGW Steve
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/03/06

Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: blueman]
      #6134148 - 10/13/13 12:55 AM

I've never tried to buy used out of the US, but I do buy a fair amount of new stuff. I typically have this stuff shipped to a broker at the border, which is 88 km from my house. I pay them a $5 per box fee and clear the items at the border crossing myself. Of course this may not work if you are some distance from a border crossing.

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crazyqban
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/16/08

Loc: Miami, Florida
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: PGW Steve]
      #6134169 - 10/13/13 01:13 AM

I don't mind shipping to Canada or any other country as long as the buyer understands that once I drop the package off at the post office, it is out of my control and I am not responsible for what may happen to the package. With this arangement I have shipped items to Canada, Portugal, New Zeland, Australia, Trinidad & Tobago, Lithuania and China without any issues. All of the packagaes have arrived safe and sound in a timeley amnner except for Lithuania, that one took about a month and a half! My main concern is the lack of tracking capabilities when shipping outside the US but if the buyer agrees to my conditions, I will happily ship to them.

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Shneor
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 03/01/05

Loc: Northern California
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: crazyqban]
      #6134246 - 10/13/13 02:48 AM

It has been a couple of decades since I sold a Celestron C-8 OTA to a gentleman in New Zealand. I had a couple of forms to fill out, and I planned to ship it using USPS. The maximum length plus girth was 80 inches, and my local post office refused it because it was 1/2 inch larger. I took it to a contract post office in town, and they accepted it. The buyer wanted me to declare a lower value so his customs duties would be less, but I convinced him that if anything happened, the insurance could not exceed the declared value. So I entered the true sale price. I recently turned down a foreign offer simply because I don't want the additional trouble of filling out forms (the prospective buyer offered to pay any additional shipping cost). I did ship some donated astro items to Curacao a year or so ago, and that turned out be be quite simple for some reason. I don't want to charge for extra time on forms, but I feel my time is valuable.

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Bill Weir
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/01/04

Loc: Metchosin (Victoria), Canada
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6134263 - 10/13/13 03:13 AM

Do you know about this site? http://www.astrobuysell.com/
While I've only bought a few things on the used market the majority have been from the US and the majority of those did state CONUS only yet still the deal was cut. Only ever wanted it shipped USPS and was willing to pay the full shipping. There is no duty on astro equipment and taxes are my responsibility.

If someone doesn't want to sell something that is their right, Oh Well. What I do see though is that there is a lot of used stuff out there that is going unsold so perhaps keep track of those things and the seller who wouldn't sell. Perhaps with a little time their attitude might change.

On that Canadian site throw up a wanted ad if there is something you really want. You might be surprised what might reply.

For the most part (and I mean no disrespect) you might just need to get over this. We live in an amazing country, the fact someone might not want to sell you something is small beans.

Bill


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sg6
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/14/10

Loc: Norfolk, UK.
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6134328 - 10/13/13 04:45 AM

It will be the boarder and the related customs etc that is the problem. Equally I have had problems buying bits from other people in the UK and not going over a boarder, and we ain't that big.

I now usually look for a location before contact and if possible just drive to collect. Which considering our post is good and the whole place is about 800 miles end to end is pretty bad.


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gonzosc1
sage


Reged: 11/08/12

Loc: South Carolina
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: crazyqban]
      #6134529 - 10/13/13 09:05 AM

there are reshippers avalible in the US. just sold a bass guitar on ebay and I had USCON only listed on it. A guy from Finnand wanted the bass and told me about a reshipper he uses out of Fla. so I shipped to Fla and they ship to him at big saving. if I were to ship direct to him it would have been $400-$500, the reshipper did it for $160. they ship in bulk all over the world so they get bulk rates. may take a bit longer to get an item.

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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Bill Weir]
      #6134558 - 10/13/13 09:27 AM

Quote:

Do you know about this site? http://www.astrobuysell.com/

Bill




Sure I do, Bill. But it's really pretty pathetic. Our market is so small. I did, by shear coincidence, pick up two Delos EPs there very recently though.

Earlier this year I was notified by a US friend of some high-end gear being listed on Astromart by a Canadian. I bought many kilobucks of it from him.
Typically, it was not even listed on the Canadian board!
Seems even Canadians don't list on the Canadian board!
He still has $8,300 of stuff left on Amart . . . or, at least, has not marked the items as being sold.
Had it not been pointed out to me, I'd have not even seen the listing!


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tomcody
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/06/08

Loc: Titusville, Florida
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6134672 - 10/13/13 10:22 AM

Terry,
I don't speak for anybody but me when I say the problem is on the mostly US side with customs and ITAR regulations and forms to complete in order to ship internationally. I was trained for two weeks by NASA in ITAR regulations needed to manage my projects for NASA and all my work still had to be reviewed by an internal NASA review board and ITAR attorneys.
I have to fill out the same custom forms and ITAR questions/forms to ship as a citizen and am faced with the same fines and criminal penalties if such forms are not correct! As even after formal training, I still can't figure out the correct answers to these custom/ITAR forms, I will not put my future in jeopardy to sell internationally. Others may take these custom declarations less serious than me (probably because I had the (insert possible TOS word violation here) scared out of me by my government training.)

On your end, I see the issue as only lack of available shipper insurance across border and long delays (which may cause me a bad rating as the buyer confuses a customs delay with a shipping delay from me).

As a possible solution, we could eliminate the borders, how do you and your fellow Canadians feel about joining us? we could use five or six more states in the US and you could join in the fun with representatives in Washington!
Rex


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Robo-bob
sage


Reged: 05/02/05

Loc: Central Alberta
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: tomcody]
      #6134747 - 10/13/13 10:57 AM

Quote:



As a possible solution, we could eliminate the borders, how do you and your fellow Canadians feel about joining us? we could use five or six more states in the US and you could join in the fun with representatives in Washington!
Rex




Well Rex, it would be much better if you joined us. We could use another province. Just think, we could rule the world with your military and our natural resources


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: tomcody]
      #6134778 - 10/13/13 11:13 AM

Quote:

As a possible solution, we could eliminate the borders, how do you and your fellow Canadians feel about joining us?
Rex





This would take us squarely into the realm of the political!!

For the past few years, I've spent winters in the US and became accustomed to unfettered access to the American consumer marketplace. I guess now I'm feeling the "isolation" of my return to full time residency in Canada.

I've certainly seen it from both sides. From the viewpoint only of the consumer marketplace, Canada is a "third world country!" People usually point to the taxes but it really isn't the taxes the government reaps that are so irksome. It is all the other stuff, the customs delays, brokerage fees and extra charges that seem to proliferate at every step that I find frustrating.

Two recent incidences:
1/ I had a small order with Agena. The parcel showed up at the Canadian sorting station in Toronto without contents. Or so I was finally told. I could do nothing. All this took six weeks BTW! Only the shipper could initiate any action. Canada post would not even tell me precisely what the problem was!
I had to go to Agena and have them call Canada Post, break through the voicemail system which seems precisely and deliberately designed to prevent reaching a human being, to see what was wrong with the shipment. It was only from them
I learned the package was "without contents." I would hardly blame Agena if "We don't ship to Canada" went up on their website too, as it has on many others.

2/ While in the US last spring, I sold some stuff on ebay. One transaction was a small $600 camera lens which sold to a Canadian. I went to the post office and shipped it. The paperwork seemed pretty minimal to me although the form was longer than what is required when shipping to the US from Canada.
The form here really is minimal. Along the lines of "Contents: Used camera lens. Value: $600" is all that is required up here . . . on a little green sticker.
But, in shipping that lens north from FL, I DID indeed have to stand in line at the post office. But, don't you have to anyway with a package even within the US? The cost was pretty high too . . . $50.50.


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csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6134789 - 10/13/13 11:18 AM

Quote:

But, in shipping that lens north from FL, I DID indeed have to stand in line at the post office. But, don't you have to anyway with a package even within the US?




I am one that has CONUS in my ads; as it's quite an inconvenience for me to stand in line to get the form, fill it out; go to the back of the line again, before I actually ship the pkg. It's usually a 45-60 minute transaction for me. I can ship UPS by dropping it off at my family's business where they pkg, label, etc. for UPS to pickup from them. I must say I feel very badly for our Canada neighbors, but I hate standing in line!


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Eddgie
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/01/06

Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: csrlice12]
      #6134790 - 10/13/13 11:18 AM

Quote:

I just really can't believe our two governments couldn't get together and do some kind of reciprocal agreement between the two country's postal services. At least for postage.




It is clear to me that you have not done your homework by posting this.

The US Postal Service has recreciprocal postage agreement with EVERY country in the world for first class mail.

I mail things to Canada reqularly and have mailed to Europe, Australia, and South Amercia many times.

The only requirement on the part of the US shipper is to fill out a very simple customs deceleration form.

The post office will have stacks of these and I keep a few on hand at the house.

You fill out the item description, quantity, weight, and value, along with the shipper's and receiver's address. It takes all of 3 minutes.

This is attached to the package.

The buyer's home country will (f necessary) bill the reciepient and there is no burden on the seller other than to fill out the very simple form.

There are only three conditions I make.. I will only declare the value for the price paid. No more, no less.

I will not guaranty the delivery.

Sale if final.

Very easy to mail outside the us.

And as I said, the US postal service does indeed have recriprical postal agreement with every country in the workd.

This includes North Korea, Iran, and even Somolia.

Every country. It is funny that with all the countries that hate us, they still want to be able to communicate back and forth. I admire the US Postal Service for ensuring that this can be done economically and simply.

Ask them. I did and that was what I was told by the postmaster.

I can ship a package to Europe for the same as shipping it to the west cost. When they ship to us, they pay their own internal rate.

No money changes hands betweent the countries.. They all just to agree to deliever mail from the other country in exchange for their outgoing mail being delievered in the US.

Beautiful.

Edited by Eddgie (10/13/13 11:40 AM)


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maknewtnut
Member
*****

Reged: 10/08/06

Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: blueman]
      #6134810 - 10/13/13 11:33 AM

Quote:

There are reasons why some do not wish to sell outside the US.
1) people are always asking you to lie about the value or to say it is a gift

2) you have to fill out paperwork and stand in line to ship to another country, including Canada.

3) there can be very long delays in customs, weeks! I have had this happen when I shipped to Canada. The buyer was getting upset because the package just disappeared when it hit customs. He bugged me for a refund. I told him not until it is declared lost. The item showed up four weeks later, it was in customs the entire time.
Blueman




Floyd's experience mirrors mine. I have shipped all over the world. Yes, there is a little extra time involved with customs forms, but it's really not tough to do. Properly packing an instrument for shipping is far more time consuming, which is the same whether it's travel will be a couple hundred miles or to another continent.

In respect to Canadian bound shipments, it's quite simple. As a recipient, be prepared to wait...or not. It seems to be a *BLEEP* shoot with Can customs brokers. Smaller items sent via postal services often see no delay at all, but can be held up for weeks. Larger items sent via parcel carriers often get held up, but once in a while are delivered immediately. There seems to be no rhyme or reason.

The biggest hassle is the request to fill out customs and insurance forms stating the items is a gift and grossly understate it's value. I've seen several folks back out of a deal when I refused to go along with their scam. Two became vulgar and cursed me, as if I was the one not 'getting it'. The reasons to avoid misrepresentations on customs and insurance forms are simple.

1) It's illegal. Customs forms require the applicant's signature, with the fine printing stating that the signature is your claim that the entries are accurate. While rarely enforced as far as I know, you can bet that if something goes wrong the seller will be behind the 8 ball from the start (of what will be a long, ugly hassle).

2)Whether it might be a damage claim or a lost package, the insured value and the value declared on a customs form MUST match. I've experienced shipping company websites that will not allow a planned shipment to complete processing when the insured value and the declared value to not match. If something happens, it's the seller that will be faced with a total loss. The recipient is practically guaranteed to ask for their money back, even when it was they who specifically asked for the scam to begin with.

It's a lose-lose proposition for a seller to play along with a buyer requested scam.


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csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: maknewtnut]
      #6134838 - 10/13/13 11:48 AM

Mark, excellent post explaining the misrepresentation of the value of items.

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blueman
Photon Catcher
*****

Reged: 07/20/07

Loc: California
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: maknewtnut]
      #6134998 - 10/13/13 01:19 PM

Yup! That is it exactly. I have had several shipments take weeks and others go right through to Canada. I shipped to Italy in 6 days, but Canada 6 weeks!

Now I just don't like the metal anguish I have to go through.
Blueman
Quote:

Quote:

There are reasons why some do not wish to sell outside the US.
1) people are always asking you to lie about the value or to say it is a gift

2) you have to fill out paperwork and stand in line to ship to another country, including Canada.

3) there can be very long delays in customs, weeks! I have had this happen when I shipped to Canada. The buyer was getting upset because the package just disappeared when it hit customs. He bugged me for a refund. I told him not until it is declared lost. The item showed up four weeks later, it was in customs the entire time.
Blueman




Floyd's experience mirrors mine. I have shipped all over the world. Yes, there is a little extra time involved with customs forms, but it's really not tough to do. Properly packing an instrument for shipping is far more time consuming, which is the same whether it's travel will be a couple hundred miles or to another continent.

In respect to Canadian bound shipments, it's quite simple. As a recipient, be prepared to wait...or not. It seems to be a *BLEEP* shoot with Can customs brokers. Smaller items sent via postal services often see no delay at all, but can be held up for weeks. Larger items sent via parcel carriers often get held up, but once in a while are delivered immediately. There seems to be no rhyme or reason.

The biggest hassle is the request to fill out customs and insurance forms stating the items is a gift and grossly understate it's value. I've seen several folks back out of a deal when I refused to go along with their scam. Two became vulgar and cursed me, as if I was the one not 'getting it'. The reasons to avoid misrepresentations on customs and insurance forms are simple.

1) It's illegal. Customs forms require the applicant's signature, with the fine printing stating that the signature is your claim that the entries are accurate. While rarely enforced as far as I know, you can bet that if something goes wrong the seller will be behind the 8 ball from the start (of what will be a long, ugly hassle).

2)Whether it might be a damage claim or a lost package, the insured value and the value declared on a customs form MUST match. I've experienced shipping company websites that will not allow a planned shipment to complete processing when the insured value and the declared value to not match. If something happens, it's the seller that will be faced with a total loss. The recipient is practically guaranteed to ask for their money back, even when it was they who specifically asked for the scam to begin with.

It's a lose-lose proposition for a seller to play along with a buyer requested scam.




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ukcanuck
Vendor (Skylight Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 11/07/06

Loc: London, UK
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: blueman]
      #6135102 - 10/13/13 02:04 PM

I've shipped around the globe...so shipping across borders doesn't bother me.

I'm something of a magpie, so I find it personally interesting to see some of the nice gear that comes up in the USA & Canada. Some of the ads invariably contain the phrase CONUS only. England is seriously far outside these boundaries ...so I just rule these out and don't get stressed about it.

However, there have been one or two that have said CONUS only...but I really wanted them! So, in these few circumstances, I have sent a short, polite message expressing my personal interest, and reassuring the seller that I'm prepared for the extra expense, challenges, potential delays & any incoming tax/duty...and that I won't ask them to falsify documentation.

Ultimately though, it's the sellers' call and while this doesn't always reassure them enough...it has once or twice, leaving us both happy. While this doesn't fix the problem of the opening post, I don't think it hurts to politely ask.



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nicknacknock
professor emeritus
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Reged: 02/20/12

Loc: In a galaxy far far away...
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: ukcanuck]
      #6135147 - 10/13/13 02:29 PM

Well, living waaaaay across the pond (little island in the Mediterranean Sea called Cyprus), I found that the easiest way is to use MyUS who forward everything to me.

Most of my gear has been purchased like this from the US and their shipping is lower than any comparable shipping quotes I got from sellers, simply cause you get a discounted rate due to the sheer volume of goods they ship.

You have a choice between DHL and FEDEX for shipping. They do all the customs forms and pay taxes and I just pay the delivery man once I get my stuff..


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: nicknacknock]
      #6135241 - 10/13/13 03:25 PM

Well, I dunn'o. My recent experiences have been so negative that I don't see the "politely ask" modus operandi as worth pursuing.

I've politely asked "will you ship to Canada," and not gotten even a reply twice in the past week! And these were for listings that didn't even state "CONUS only." Now I won't say this is "normal." I don't have a whole lot of transactions to do a sound statistical analysis. Maybe it's just been " a bad week!"

But, mirable dictu, I have just concluded a deal on the Canadian board for a TV 35mm Panoptic.

The Astromart listing for a 35 Pan was one of the ones where I didn't even get a reply from the seller. His ad stated only
Quote:

I'll pay shipping to CONUS



I didn't even take that to mean "CONUS only."
But when I replied to the ad, asking "will you ship to Canada" . . . nothing! No reply at all.

While I appreciate some of my knotheaded countrymen feel free to ask for falsified declarations, I certainly never have asked a seller to do any such thing. I will admit to a certain glee when customs let a package through without levying the 15% HST, but I've never tried to evade it with a falsified declaration. And compatriots who do make sellers uncomfortable with such requests are part of the problem, as we've seen here.
DON'T BE ASKIN' SELLERS TO LIE FOR YOUR BENEFIT!
You're just lousin' it up for the rest of us when you do that!
And I'm no "Goody Two Shoes" either. Just I don't ask other people to get dirty for my benefit.


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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
*****

Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: blueman]
      #6135242 - 10/13/13 03:25 PM

Quote:

There are reasons why some do not wish to sell outside the US.
1) people are always asking you to lie about the value or to say it is a gift

2) you have to fill out paperwork and stand in line to ship to another country, including Canada.

3) there can be very long delays in customs, weeks! I have had this happen when I shipped to Canada. The buyer was getting upset because the package just disappeared when it hit customs. He bugged me for a refund. I told him not until it is declared lost. The item showed up four weeks later, it was in customs the entire time.
Blueman




Yes, these are the issues for some people. It's not worth breaking the law to send something.

If you do the paperwork on line it is simple and fast, as long as you use USPS. However, if you are sending something large and need to use FedEx or UPS, then the paperwork can be a pain. In addition, many things can go through customs without duty charged when shipped by USPS, but when shipped by UPS or FedEx, they charge both the duty and brokerage fees even if the item is something that should be exempted (like optical telescope equipment). While this isn't a problem for the seller/shipper, it is for the buyer/receiver since they will often bill the receiver for the duty and brokerage fees after the fact so that they don't even know that you are going to incur these costs at the time they accept the package. This goes for shipping both from and to the US (for Canada or other countries).

Customs is a crapshoot. You never know when things will fall into a black hole for weeks and there is no way to find them when they do. There are countries far worse about this than Canadian customs though. Something will generally go through much faster if sent by Express Mail International than by just about any other service, but packages sent that way will more frequently be assessed duty than packages sent by slower methods. Again, the problem is really for the buyer/receiver in this case rather than the seller/sender, but an impatient buyer who wants to blame the delay on the seller can certainly put someone off of shipping outside the CONUS.

I send stuff, used and new, all over the place all the time and have no problem doing it because as the seller/sender I don't see any hassle, but the declared amounts must be correct, especially when you are in business. The frustrating thing for me is never having any idea how long something will take to get to its non-CONUS destination and how much it will cost the receiver in duty charges. Some countries are as high as 50%.


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: EFT]
      #6135276 - 10/13/13 03:43 PM

Well, it ain't germane to the thread topic.

But soon (please let it be soon!!!) I'll be getting an AP1100 shipped to Canada.

While I am eager and enthusiastic to get this mount, I am also afraid. I'm VERY afraid!

The 15% percent GST hit, while I am not looking forward to, I know will happen and I can live with.

It's what other fees I might encounter on this $9,000 shipment that have me afraid.

It's tough to be Canadian!

Edited by dawziecat (10/13/13 03:44 PM)


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: tomcody]
      #6135287 - 10/13/13 03:52 PM

Quote:


As a possible solution, we could eliminate the borders, how do you and your fellow Canadians feel about joining us? we could use five or six more states in the US and you could join in the fun with representatives in Washington!
Rex




On second thought, there is no way in Hades you'd be willing to put up with us! The French guys would be demanding all your politicians speak French. The guys out west would be seceding. It'd be chaos!

Your politics IS a lot more fun though!
Our politics is so, well . . . . BORING!


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Daniel Guzas
professor emeritus
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Reged: 11/20/10

Loc: Bethlehem NH/ Boston MA
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6135317 - 10/13/13 04:07 PM

I do understand your frustration. I make every effort to give anyone and everyone a prompt a clear response to my ads. Whether they are in the Conus or not.... I say in all of my ads that I will pay for shipping in the conus... But outside of that I will ask the buyer for the shipping.... Or at least the difference between the conus cost and the additional " international" cost...

Each time I asked for the additional cost for the shipping outside the US the buyer decided it was not worth the extra $$. So be it... It's up to them...no skin off my nose...

However one fellow said he didn't know why it was so expensive to ship items as he regularly received item from the US for $15-$20. I was quoting him a $40 shipping cost for Binoviewers... This was to continental Europe... I said I don't see what I can do to reduce the cost... He suggested I send the binoviewers in a bubble wrapped envelope.. That would be cheaper...

Ummm no way.... Is basically what I told him... But it's all up to the seller to do what he or she feels comfortable doing...I regularly do a lot of leg work to see if I can get the item to someone outside the US just because I would like others to do the same for me...

But a binoviewer in a padded folder??. That was just too silly... But this wouldn't deter me from selling outside the US...


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tomcody
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/06/08

Loc: Titusville, Florida
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6135526 - 10/13/13 06:05 PM


Quote:


On second thought, there is no way in Hades you'd be willing to put up with us! The French guys would be demanding all your politicians speak French. The guys out west would be seceding. It'd be chaos!

Your politics IS a lot more fun though!
Our politics is so, well . . . . BORING!



Other than us learning to say "Eh" all the time, what would be different Eh?
Rex


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csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: tomcody]
      #6135715 - 10/13/13 07:48 PM

More green bottle beer?

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M13 Observer
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/09/06

Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6135858 - 10/13/13 09:16 PM

Quote:

Well, it ain't germane to the thread topic.

But soon (please let it be soon!!!) I'll be getting an AP1100 shipped to Canada.

While I am eager and enthusiastic to get this mount, I am also afraid. I'm VERY afraid!

The 15% percent GST hit, while I am not looking forward to, I know will happen and I can live with.

It's what other fees I might encounter on this $9,000 shipment that have me afraid.

It's tough to be Canadian!




I wouldn't worry about it. The people at Astro-Physics know what they are doing. Last time AP recommended, and I chose Fedex as they were running a "special" rate and it worked out very well. With both Fedex or UPS, do NOT chose the base (cheap) rate as they do NOT include brokerage and the associated brokerage fees. Any of the upscale "expedited" and above (if I recall properly) rates include brokerage services and fees.


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starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: csrlice12]
      #6135930 - 10/13/13 10:06 PM

That's what makes it Skunky .

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Mariner@sg
sage
*****

Reged: 06/28/12

Loc: Little Red Dot
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6135944 - 10/13/13 10:12 PM

Quote:

Well, I dunn'o. My recent experiences have been so negative that I don't see the "politely ask" modus operandi as worth pursuing.

I've politely asked "will you ship to Canada," and not gotten even a reply twice in the past week! And these were for listings that didn't even state "CONUS only." Now I won't say this is "normal." I don't have a whole lot of transactions to do a sound statistical analysis. Maybe it's just been " a bad week!"

But, mirable dictu, I have just concluded a deal on the Canadian board for a TV 35mm Panoptic.

The Astromart listing for a 35 Pan was one of the ones where I didn't even get a reply from the seller. His ad stated only
Quote:

I'll pay shipping to CONUS



I didn't even take that to mean "CONUS only."
But when I replied to the ad, asking "will you ship to Canada" . . . nothing! No reply at all.

While I appreciate some of my knotheaded countrymen feel free to ask for falsified declarations, I certainly never have asked a seller to do any such thing. I will admit to a certain glee when customs let a package through without levying the 15% HST, but I've never tried to evade it with a falsified declaration. And compatriots who do make sellers uncomfortable with such requests are part of the problem, as we've seen here.
DON'T BE ASKIN' SELLERS TO LIE FOR YOUR BENEFIT!
You're just lousin' it up for the rest of us when you do that!
And I'm no "Goody Two Shoes" either. Just I don't ask other people to get dirty for my benefit.




The "politely ask" modus operandi has a 50-50 rate. Politeness is a plus and has always been my golden rule in making contact about a possible deal but I have had rejections even from Canadian sellers...

I find that maintaining a good rating is probably a better bet to persuade US sellers that shipping to this overseas bloke on a little red dot somewhere on the other side of the globe is not a scam.


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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
*****

Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Mariner@sg]
      #6135992 - 10/13/13 10:32 PM

As was just mentioned in another thread, you can set up an account with a freight forwarder in the US and have things sent to them and then forwarded to you. I'm sure that there is a cost to this service, but it might be less expensive than sending things directly sometimes. In any case, you would also be shipping to a CONUS address so a seller shouldn't have a problem that you are outside the US.

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Cotts
Just Wondering
*****

Reged: 10/10/05

Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Mariner@sg]
      #6136021 - 10/13/13 10:45 PM

Well, I've been fortunate with deals going either way.

There's never been a problem with my sending to the USA. FedEx if it is large or Canada Post - USPS for small packages.

For my purchases from the US I politely ask if they would waive the 'CONUS Only" restriction. If they say 'no', (their right to do so) I offer them the chance to send it to a friend of mine in Buffalo NY. It is easy for me to go get it and back in an afternoon, not to mention some great wings at the Anchor Bar!!! A few folks have still said 'no' (but I can't imagine why....) but most have no problem with it.

I've also had stuff shipped to me at a Star Party while I was there. Once, I drove from Toronto to Albany NY to pick up my TEC 8". 500 mile round trip and a night in a motel - cheaper than shipping.

I just try to be creative about making the deal work. For instance, I will soon be offering a few small items on AM and I will offer to deliver if the person is reasonably close to a line joining Toronto and Florida since I'll be attending the Chiefland Fall S.P. But sometimes it doesn't work out. Not a total loss.

I've never asked an American seller to lie about the value. That's wrong on many levels. If I have to pay taxes I'm prepared for it....

Dave.


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Full Sun
super member
*****

Reged: 11/19/06

Loc: Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Cotts]
      #6136691 - 10/14/13 11:17 AM

Dave
I think you have frayed some typical Canadian nerve and brought in some moral and ethical questions for otherwise honest cross border shoppers ,dealing with aquisition of used items.
If the charge that asking for a lesser declaration for a private tranasaction -than I plead guilty as a repeat offender. Please consider this as a partial rationalization for this request.
- items valued under 75. Dollars clear very quickly through customs without the sometime long delays.
- requested lower value declaration does also lower the insurance costs for the seller. All the risk in shipping maladies is therefore assumed by the Canadian buyer. Insurance collection is also not guaranteed in either case.
- may I remind you that these are used items being traded from private transactions. I am not convinced that government has proper juristiction to collect renumeration if I have bought, or sold an item ,shipped from one basement to another especially from another country.
- Canadians are not more or less honest than any other nationality as we are not always buyers but just as often suppliers to our American cousins who do not have to deal with this ridiculous tax grab.
- Items are often imported new from American retailers in which case I have no argument as it protects good Canadian Retailers from an imbalance in the marketplace.
- The request to discount is just that; a request.
I may have offended some in doing so and hope that by offering another
perspective , this can at lease soften the tone of the debate.

Cheers and Clears
J.

Edited by Full Sun (10/14/13 01:00 PM)


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csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Full Sun]
      #6136725 - 10/14/13 11:35 AM

No matter how one rationalizes using a lower price than the actual price; it's dishonest, and the shipper is signing his name to a document stating that this is the true price. I myself would not agree to show a different price other than the true one, on documents; regardless of how small the chance of being caught is. It's comes down to what you stated; "moral and ethical".

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corpusse
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/11/10

Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Full Sun]
      #6136747 - 10/14/13 11:44 AM

I agree 100% with full sun. If I was buying a new ap mount sure I'd expect considerable taxes and brokerage. Even a new accessory from astronomics or opt, but buying used its rediculous that we pay sales tax on them! Although if we send to the us they don't have to pay tax. It only works one way.

I would never ask a store but I would ask a person for above reasons. It's a stupid regulation. Especially when you may get lucky anyway but you might get nailed.


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: csa/montana]
      #6136755 - 10/14/13 11:47 AM

Quote:

No matter how one rationalizes using a lower price than the actual price; it's dishonest, and the shipper is signing his name to a document stating that this is the true price. I myself would not agree to show a different price other than the true one, on documents; regardless of how small the chance of being caught is. It's comes down to what you stated; "moral and ethical".






In my mind, asking me to be dishonest on the customs form, that's a deal killer. It might seem like a request to the buyer but it's a request from someone I don't really know to do something they shouldn't be asking me to do. That's not good form...

Jon


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Robo-bob
sage


Reged: 05/02/05

Loc: Central Alberta
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6136791 - 10/14/13 12:06 PM

As a Canadian, I will NOT request a lower declaration because it is simply illegal (not to mention unethical). Regardless of how one feels about paying this tax, the law is clear. If you can't afford to pay the few extra bucks in tax, you probably shouldn't be buying the item in question. It's precisely these kind of requests that turn a lot of American sellers off from Canadian buyers. I don't blame them. I would be frustrated also.

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bunyon
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/23/10

Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: csa/montana]
      #6136797 - 10/14/13 12:08 PM

I'm another American shipper who puts CONUS in his ads. I do phrase it as "will pay shipping in CONUS" meaning, you're free to inquire from outside but I'm paying none of the shipping or fees if we make a deal. I started that after simply putting "will pay shipping" in an ad and had a guy in Asia want me to pay. I refused which may technically have been unethical (I've never been sure) but the shipping was more than I'd have been paid for the piece.

Cotts, your request to "ship to a friend" makes a lot of sense and, as someone who has met you, I'd do it. But it's also a hallmark of skeezy internet scams where a request is made for delivery to a third party. If I didn't know you, I'd probably say no to that as well.


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: bunyon]
      #6136858 - 10/14/13 12:30 PM

There are about a gazzilion imbalances in the system that disadvantge Canadians in the international marketplace. I hate 'em all!

Most unfortunately though, they are legally imposed upon us . . . largely at the behest of monied lobby groups that have a $$$ interest in preserving the staus quo.

The Canadian consumer has been raped and pilloried forever! It is actually BETTER now than it was a half century ago.

Why we tolerate it, I don't know. It is discouraging. We've seen it surface briefly in the news media (non-competition in wireless industry . . . disparity in the cost of cars) but it quickly fades away as the journalists move on and nothing changes. There is no strong voice for the consumer in our system. I've heard all the specious justifications why it has to be this way. I believe none of them. It is protectionism plain and simple. Always has been. Wonder who contributes to the politicians' war chests?

That I can't fix it, and find it rapacious doesn't change the fact it is not quite right to ask an American seller to misrepresent the dollar value in a declaration.

(Oh, my! I seem to have produced a rant. )

Edited by dawziecat (10/14/13 02:56 PM)


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junomike
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/07/09

Loc: Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6136894 - 10/14/13 12:44 PM

Being an active Canadian "used" Astro-Gear purchaser, I can see both sides to this argument. I would however like to ask one question to those coming down on "Full Sun".

When you buy an Astro Item (scope, eyepiece, etc) and make a profit, do you report It on your income tax?
If not, that's no different than what he's stating.

Remember that the next time you get a great deal and flip It for a tidy profit!

Mike


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: junomike]
      #6136904 - 10/14/13 12:51 PM

Quote:


When you buy an Astro Item (scope, eyepiece, etc) and make a profit, do you report It on your income tax?
If not, that's no different than what he's stating.




It's TOTALLY different! At least it is as I see it.
The parallel is getting dirty yourself vs pulling another party into the mud with you.


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csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6136929 - 10/14/13 01:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:


When you buy an Astro Item (scope, eyepiece, etc) and make a profit, do you report It on your income tax?
If not, that's no different than what he's stating.




It's TOTALLY different! At least it is as I see it.
The parallel is getting dirty yourself vs pulling another party into the mud with you.




+1 What one does for themselves is quite different from asking another to share in their dishonesty.


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junomike
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/07/09

Loc: Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6136956 - 10/14/13 01:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:


When you buy an Astro Item (scope, eyepiece, etc) and make a profit, do you report It on your income tax?
If not, that's no different than what he's stating.




It's TOTALLY different! At least it is as I see it.
The parallel is getting dirty yourself vs pulling another party into the mud with you.




I'm not sure how different It is, but how about this scenario. You buy a $5000 Tak from someone in the US and pick It up. At the Border you pay the applicable taxes.
Now If I (also in Canada) were to ship you that same scope what would you pay? Nothing? Why? Well the premise is that I already paid the taxes on It once so you don't have to.

As for "pulling someone in with you", that's a whole different issue. No one should have to do anything they aren't comfortable with.

Mike


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Cotts
Just Wondering
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Reged: 10/10/05

Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: bunyon]
      #6137229 - 10/14/13 02:53 PM

Paul, as for shipping to my American Friend in Buffalo, he is the proprietor of an internationally-known Astronomical Accessories firm and is far better known in the community than I am. Shipping to him wouldn't look so skeezy, I suspect. As well, no one ships till my payment clears so how could the American seller go wrong?

Also there is a business in Niagara Falls N.Y. which specializes in receiving packages (name forgotten at the moment...). Its entire business plan rests on Canadians using that as a shipping address and taking the package across the border themselves....

This sort of manouever is quite common.

Dave


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mgwhittle
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Reged: 08/24/11

Loc: Chattanooga, TN
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: crazyqban]
      #6137956 - 10/14/13 10:05 PM

I used to sell and ship to Canada when I lived near a post office in a medium sized town. Sold several items and it was not a big deal to fill out the form and ship something.

Now where I live, my post office is what I will nicely call "rural" and trying to ship abroad, even to Canada, seems to bring the whole operation to a screeching halt. I have also stopped taking Postal Money orders because I can't get them cashed there either.


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Shneor
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 03/01/05

Loc: Northern California
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: mgwhittle]
      #6138286 - 10/15/13 03:01 AM

Canadians live in a country with representative government. Canada also has signed many international trade treaties with other nations. IMHO, Canadian citizens should contact their elected representatives to reduce or eliminate customs duties or sales taxes they believe to be unjust or inappropriate. But please don't ask sellers from other countries to lie.

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dawziecat
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Reged: 10/20/10

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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Cotts]
      #6138454 - 10/15/13 07:43 AM

Well, I tried again. I am really puzzled. I replied to an ad on Astromart in the way I always have, using the "Respond to this ad" hyperlink. (Is there any other way?"

Again, no response. The text of my message being along the lines "I am interested in your blah-blah. Will you ship to Canada, at my expense of course?"

This has happened so many times now, consecutively, that I find myself wondering if something is wrong with my account. It just doesn't sound right. I have actually lost track of how many times I have responded to an ad in the past couple of weeks. My best guess is maybe five times, with no response from five different sellers.

I've bought several times on Amart in the past, although usually I guess I was in FL when I did so.

So, I dug through the ads and found a listing from several months back from a Canadian. He had an interesting item listed that was not marked as having been sold. So, "Respond to this ad" and I had a reply and completed the sale within a couple of hours.

I am perplexed.

Incidentally, I recap, none of the ads to which I received no reply were marked "CONUS only." Several might have notations along the lines of "Seller pays shipping within the CONUS," but that's not the same thing, is it? I always state that I will pay shipping costs.

This all seems very strange . . . American sellers have apparently put me on some sort of secret "black list?"


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junomike
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/07/09

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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6139520 - 10/15/13 05:47 PM

Sending a PM with a link to one of my AM ads.
Reply to It and PM me back.
This way we will know your account is not the problem.

Mike


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junomike
Carpal Tunnel
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Loc: Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: junomike]
      #6139772 - 10/15/13 08:36 PM

PM returned.

Mike


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piaras
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/26/09

Loc: Niagara Region
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Shneor]
      #6139787 - 10/15/13 08:46 PM

Quote:

Canadians live in a country with representative government. Canada also has signed many international trade treaties with other nations. IMHO, Canadian citizens should contact their elected representatives to reduce or eliminate customs duties or sales taxes they believe to be unjust or inappropriate.




Representative! Ha. This does not work in Canada either.

NAFTA was to reduce the duty tariff on many items but not everything. Federal Sales Tax was never part of this. Remember the FST used to be 13.5% prior to the GST, known as a VAT in most of the world. Now it is only 5% plus Provincial Sales Taxes if applicable, from 0 to 10%.

Pierre

Edited by tecmage (10/16/13 07:53 PM)


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dan_h
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/10/07

Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6140053 - 10/15/13 11:34 PM

Quote:

Well, I tried again. I am really puzzled. I replied to an ad on Astromart in the way I always have, using the "Respond to this ad" hyperlink. (Is there any other way?"

Again, no response. The text of my message being along the lines "I am interested in your blah-blah. Will you ship to Canada, at my expense of course?"

This has happened so many times now, consecutively, that I find myself wondering if something is wrong with my account. It just doesn't sound right. I have actually lost track of how many times I have responded to an ad in the past couple of weeks. My best guess is maybe five times, with no response from five different sellers.

I've bought several times on Amart in the past, although usually I guess I was in FL when I did so.

So, I dug through the ads and found a listing from several months back from a Canadian. He had an interesting item listed that was not marked as having been sold. So, "Respond to this ad" and I had a reply and completed the sale within a couple of hours.

I am perplexed.

Incidentally, I recap, none of the ads to which I received no reply were marked "CONUS only." Several might have notations along the lines of "Seller pays shipping within the CONUS," but that's not the same thing, is it? I always state that I will pay shipping costs.

This all seems very strange . . . American sellers have apparently put me on some sort of secret "black list?"




All of this is really very typical of what you can expect.
I get the same thing. When I reply with a US address for shipping, deals start to happen. Cross the border, I don't even get a response. Of course, if you are looking for a $5000 item with a motivated seller, things can be a little different.

Don't take it so personal. You and I just aren't that important. Deal with it.

dan


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Martin Lyons
sage
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Reged: 10/06/08

Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dan_h]
      #6140300 - 10/16/13 05:06 AM

I have bought numerous items from folks selling stuff here on CN.

The largest item was the Meade 16"LX200GPS
It was originally marked as CONUS and pick up only.
Due to my charm (read begging and pleading and I was the first responder)the seller finally agreed to ship to me here in Cape Town, South Africa.
I paid for crating and airfreight (only realised too late that it wasn't insured, so didn't sleep well for 2 weeks) and it got here intact and relatively quickly.

I find that the minute sellers hear I'm from Africa, they become very suspicious that I may be a scammer (who can blame them if you look at how the 419 scams originating from Nigeria has conned many out of millions)

With a bit of friendly begging, pleading and bowing and scraping, sellers who were reluctant eventually come round to shipping outside of the US.
It also helps if they don't get any response to their ad...


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Kyle
member
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Reged: 08/21/05

Loc: Sacramento, CA
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Martin Lyons]
      #6140310 - 10/16/13 05:43 AM

On that note, why conus? I really don't know why people are afraid to include alaska or hawaii. I've sold and shipped items to both via usps and cost was about the same as shipping in the mainland. No extra paperwork either.

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Jon Isaacs
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Kyle]
      #6140350 - 10/16/13 07:08 AM

Quote:

On that note, why conus? I really don't know why people are afraid to include alaska or hawaii. I've sold and shipped items to both via usps and cost was about the same as shipping in the mainland. No extra paperwork either.




I just priced shipping 40" x 14" x 14" box weighing 40 lbs to Fairbanks and to Boston via FedEx, $170 versus $60.. Fairbanks via USPS, $130...

Jon


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wormstar
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/23/09

Loc: Central Ct
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6140406 - 10/16/13 08:22 AM

I have shipped things all over the world, including a $5000 scope to Australia, and 300# of GEM mount and weights to Norway. Most times everything was easy, but one time I had to jump thru hoops with the paperwork with Fedex( because the declared value was high) , and the item sat in customs for a while on the other end.
I don't mind shipping to Canada as long as the buyer covers the extra shipping.


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tomcody
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Reged: 07/06/08

Loc: Titusville, Florida
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: piaras]
      #6140536 - 10/16/13 09:51 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Canadians live in a country with representative government. Canada also has signed many international trade treaties with other nations. IMHO, Canadian citizens should contact their elected representatives to reduce or eliminate customs duties or sales taxes they believe to be unjust or inappropriate.




Representative! Ha. This does not work in Canada either.

NAFTA was to reduce the duty tariff on many items but not everything. Federal Sales Tax was never part of this. Remember the FST used to be 13.5% prior to the GST, known as a VAT in most of the world. Now it is only 5% plus Provincial Sales Taxes if applicable, from 0 to 10%.
Taxes are here to stay.
Pierre



Just to note some of the paperwork needed to ship to Canada see:

web page
for the over $1600 CAD shipment requirement.
And
web page
For the actual form Please note Field #6 and see if you can fill it out correctly?

(Field #6 is why I will not ship to Canada)
Rex


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M13 Observer
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/09/06

Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: tomcody]
      #6140953 - 10/16/13 01:39 PM

Quote:


Just to note some of the paperwork needed to ship to Canada see:

web page
for the over $1600 CAD shipment requirement.
And
web page
For the actual form Please note Field #6 and see if you can fill it out correctly?

(Field #6 is why I will not ship to Canada)
Rex




9005.80.10 - - - Optical telescopes
9005.90.11 - - - Optical telescope parts and accessories (including mountings)

google HS tariff classification - about 20 seconds and I had the above. This has also been discussed on CN in the past and a multiple of places on the internet over the past 10 or so years.

Couldn't be simpler. Took me longer to write this than to find it. Not saying that there isn't some extra paperwork but this goes both ways depending on the value of the item, and I WILL pay extra for the trouble depending on the cost of the object. For those who are trying to nickle and dime you, ignore them.


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: tomcody]
      #6140968 - 10/16/13 01:49 PM

Oh, jeez, Tom! Don't show people that!

Now NO ONE will ship up here!

For items of a few hundred bucks or so, shipping by USPS is really pretty undemanding!

FedEx and UPS are really to be avoided when shipping cross border. For smallish items, there is just no need to use them.

Insurance: Pretty much a scam IMO. I shipped an 800mm Nikkor
f/5.6 lens from Nova Scotia to El Paso via UPS. They wouldn't insure it against anything other than "loss."
Breakage? Forget it! Didn't matter who packed it either . . . them or me.

It arrived safe and sound. But it was nerve-wracking.

It is a continuing frustration. Ship from CA to northernmost ME? No problem! Free too! Ship from northernmost ME to New Brunswick? Big problem!
Either won't do it at all, or mega $$$$$$$ more in extra fees and charges!

Oh, well. Fortunately there are US merchants who still provide excellent service to Canadians. Astronomics, OPT and Agena come immediately to mind.

I'd say Astromart was "dead to me" now after these recent, multiple bad experiences, but, @#*&^%$, even Canadian stuff doesn't get listed on the Canadian board! As Jay Leno would say, "What's up with THAT???"


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bunyon
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/23/10

Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6141001 - 10/16/13 02:07 PM

I agree it is frustrating to get no responses from inquiries (it happens to people in the same country - I get no responsed about one time in four) but how is it enough to turn you off? If you get no response, any response pretty clearly would have been "no."

How is no response different? Some people won't want to deal with an international shipment. That seems completely in their court. In an ideal world, yes, they would write to tell you that. But you wouldn't be in any different position if they did so.

I say with respect, best to just let it go. No need to get worked up by the rudeness of strangers on the internet.


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junomike
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/07/09

Loc: Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6141044 - 10/16/13 02:34 PM

Quote:

even Canadian stuff doesn't get listed on the Canadian board! As Jay Leno would say, "What's up with THAT???




Terry, It's the same reason we have to go to the US market to get rare or expensive Items........Population and Demand!

I once listed a TMB SMC at a reasonable price on the CDN classifieds. It sat there for 4 days with not one response. I listed It on AM and It sold within an hour.

Also, The cost of shipping out East in Canada is ridiculous. I know you're willing to cover that, but many aren't and want the seller to eat the cost.

For that reason, I post "Including shipping to MOST US and CDN locations" at the bottom of my ads.

Mike

(No worries though, I'd ship to you!)


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: junomike]
      #6141195 - 10/16/13 03:48 PM

Quote:

I once listed a TMB SMC at a reasonable price on the CDN classifieds. It sat there for 4 days with not one response. I listed It on AM and It sold within an hour.

Also, The cost of shipping out East in Canada is ridiculous. I know you're willing to cover that, but many aren't and want the seller to eat the cost.




I hear ya, Mike!
In the past month or so though, I have landed a 4.5 and a 6mm Delos, as well as a 35mm Pan on the CDN board.
Quote:

(No worries though, I'd ship to you!)



Thanks, Mike!


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Geo.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: tomcody]
      #6141373 - 10/16/13 05:45 PM

Quote:

For the actual form Please note Field #6 and see if you can fill it out correctly?





Easy: 900590 for astro equipment and 900580 for optics.


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Geo.]
      #6141451 - 10/16/13 06:13 PM

I pretty much exclude the Canadian market when selling and buying... No Paypal and just lazy, lazy.

Jon


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junomike
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/07/09

Loc: Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6141555 - 10/16/13 06:53 PM

No Paypal!
Jon, Do you at least have electricity?

Mike


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TG
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/02/06

Loc: Latitude 47
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Cotts]
      #6141763 - 10/16/13 08:45 PM

Quote:

Paul, as for shipping to my American Friend in Buffalo, he is the proprietor of an internationally-known Astronomical Accessories firm and is far better known in the community than I am. Shipping to him wouldn't look so skeezy, I suspect. As well, no one ships till my payment clears so how could the American seller go wrong?

Dave




If I, the seller, don't know you, how can I be sure that you aren't paying with a stolen/forged check or credit card when you're asking me to ship to a different address? For stolen credit cards, there is protection for the buyer but I don't think any for the seller. For the bad check, you are simply out of luck if you ship before it clears.

Tanveer.


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Bill Weir
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/01/04

Loc: Metchosin (Victoria), Canada
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6141896 - 10/16/13 09:56 PM

Quote:




In the past month or so though, I have landed a 4.5 and a 6mm Delos, as well as a 35mm Pan on the CDN board.

Thanks, Mike!




Is this the same site you previously called pathetic or is there some other CDN site I don't know about? ; )

Regarding the lack of courtesy when requsting resonses it is important to remember this is the internet. It abounds with rude inconsiderate individuals. I think your hurt feelings around these lackings of courtesy towards you speak to your good character. In the end though don't let it bother you it's just the way some people are. That or I just might have to order you a big platter of cheese to go with your whine. : )

Bill


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Mariner@sg
sage
*****

Reged: 06/28/12

Loc: Little Red Dot
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Bill Weir]
      #6141955 - 10/16/13 10:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:




In the past month or so though, I have landed a 4.5 and a 6mm Delos, as well as a 35mm Pan on the CDN board.

Thanks, Mike!




Is this the same site you previously called pathetic or is there some other CDN site I don't know about? ; )

Regarding the lack of courtesy when requsting resonses it is important to remember this is the internet. It abounds with rude inconsiderate individuals. I think your hurt feelings around these lackings of courtesy towards you speak to your good character. In the end though don't let it bother you it's just the way some people are. That or I just might have to order you a big platter of cheese to go with your whine. : )

Bill




Oh come on. Don't cheese him off like that!


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Cotts
Just Wondering
*****

Reged: 10/10/05

Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: TG]
      #6141956 - 10/16/13 10:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Paul, as for shipping to my American Friend in Buffalo, he is the proprietor of an internationally-known Astronomical Accessories firm and is far better known in the community than I am. Shipping to him wouldn't look so skeezy, I suspect. As well, no one ships till my payment clears so how could the American seller go wrong?

Dave




If I, the seller, don't know you, how can I be sure that you aren't paying with a stolen/forged check or credit card when you're asking me to ship to a different address? For stolen credit cards, there is protection for the buyer but I don't think any for the seller. For the bad check, you are simply out of luck if you ship before it clears.

Tanveer.




Tanveer, read my last sentence you quoted above. I would never expect anyone to ship anything until my payment had cleared. And no one does in the AM and CN Classifieds.

Also, for those 'who don't know someone' check their ratings.........

Dave


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bunyon
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/23/10

Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Cotts]
      #6141977 - 10/16/13 10:33 PM

Right, Dave. If someone pays and it clears, I'd ship to a third party, especially if ratings are good. I was just pointing out that the request has a sound similar to a lot of scams and might turn some people off. I wasn't trying to imply you were engaged in any shady dealings.

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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: bunyon]
      #6142016 - 10/16/13 10:58 PM

Actually, with Paypal, it seems payment is NEVER really cleared! Unlike a check.
No one here ever had a chargeback?


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Cotts
Just Wondering
*****

Reged: 10/10/05

Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: bunyon]
      #6142043 - 10/16/13 11:19 PM

Quote:

Right, Dave. If someone pays and it clears, I'd ship to a third party, especially if ratings are good. I was just pointing out that the request has a sound similar to a lot of scams and might turn some people off. I wasn't trying to imply you were engaged in any shady dealings.




No, I wasn't worried about that. No prob.

I have bought and sold a fair amount of expensive gear across our mutual border and I have never been told 'no' by an American. That said, I have often had to exchange a great number of emails and/or phone calls with my American colleagues to assuage fears, explain things and teach them that virtually ALL the pain, extra work and extra expense is borne by the Canadian partner and we don't mind!!! We lap it up to get that piece of gear we covet.

I have had someone send me a money order that clearly stated on the front, "Not Negotiable Outside the USA". He was surprised when I sent it back and asked him for an international money order. I have had someone purchase an expensive scope from me and be very surprised that the US govt. wanted a couple of hundred bucks in duty/tariff because the scope was Japanese in origin. He actually tried to make me pay it!! Not my problem and welcome to my world. Again, a teachable moment.

I have had good results, eventually, because I am able to show my American partners how easy it is for them, even if it is difficult for me.

Dave


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Full Sun
super member
*****

Reged: 11/19/06

Loc: Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6142051 - 10/16/13 11:27 PM

I have had good success converting 'Conus' only sellers. A reply with a firm offer for the item at full price plus added shipping , followed by quick PP payment has been quite successful in eliminating artificial trade restrictions.
Having said that , I am happy that I am not now starting out in the equipment acquisition journey. One needs a trusted local retailer and a large population of enablers when the obsession starts to drain all of your disposable income.


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: TG]
      #6142407 - 10/17/13 08:07 AM

Quote:

If I, the seller, don't know you, how can I be sure that you aren't paying with a stolen/forged check or credit card when you're asking me to ship to a different address? For stolen credit cards, there is protection for the buyer but I don't think any for the seller. For the bad check, you are simply out of luck if you ship before it clears.

Tanveer




I think we are talking about Dave selling stuff on Astromart... No aliases, verified ID, you screw up and you're gone for good...

If you are selling Dave something and are concerned, you ask for payment via a USPS money order or something you are comfortable with, you wait until everything has cleared, the money is in your hands, then you ship.

I don't worry about stolen credit cards or fake cashiers checks because I don't do credit cards or cashiers checks.

Jon


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Cotts]
      #6142531 - 10/17/13 09:39 AM

Quote:

Tanveer, read my last sentence you quoted above. I would never expect anyone to ship anything until my payment had cleared. And no one does in the AM and CN Classifieds.
Dave




I have shipped prior to receiving payment. Depends. With Paypal, of course, payment is "instantaneous," more or less and that issue never arises.

Just did a transaction with a seller who preferred a postal MO. After I said, "MO is in the mail," he shipped immediately.

Now, I may not be the most experienced internet seller/buyer in the world. But I've likely done more than my share. I've had sales go awry for several reasons but, long, ago, I gave up thinking at the other end of every transaction, be it buying or selling, was a cad figuring out how to cheat me.

Hasn't happened. Did have someone try to cheat me. It was a Snoopy wastebasket for about $30. Seller disappeared. No wastebasket arrived. Ebay refunded my money. No big deal. Total number of transactions . . . maybe two hundred. Max value? Many more than a kilobuck! Highest amount? About $8,000.

Sure, next time out, maybe I'll get cheated . . .it COULD happen. I am not totally insousciant as to the risk but I think it's small.


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6143418 - 10/17/13 05:57 PM

Quote:


I have shipped prior to receiving payment.




In general, I think is probably not the wisest thing to ship before receiving payment...

But more importantly, I think if one does sometimes ship before receiving payment, it probably not so wise to advertise that fact...

Jon


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okieav8r
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6143501 - 10/17/13 06:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:


I have shipped prior to receiving payment.




In general, I think is probably not the wisest thing to ship before receiving payment...

But more importantly, I think if one does sometimes ship before receiving payment, it probably not so wise to advertise that fact...

Jon




I've done it a few times with A-mart'ers who had good ratings histories, and I've done business with sellers who shipped to me before they received my payment. Worked out fine, but I wouldn't do it with someone if they didn't have a good ratings history or if I hadn't done business with them before. I doubt I'd do it on a big-ticket item, as all of the transactions like this that I've been involved with have been low-cost items.


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k9yr
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: okieav8r]
      #6143852 - 10/17/13 10:05 PM

Kinda related, I ordered an Alt Az mount from Canadian Telescopes which offers free shipping in Canada, however because I'm in the US in Illinois I had to pick up the $75 shipping charge. Then when UPS showed up with my mount I had to pay UPS an additional $25.

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Blake Andrews
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: k9yr]
      #6143966 - 10/17/13 11:21 PM

I want to thank everyone that has contributed their experiences to this thread. It's been so informative that I've added it to my favorites list.

I will say that while I'm more on the buying side than the selling side right now, I've repeatedly done business in Canada, UK and Australia with no issues and would happily sell to folks in these countries. My purchases have ranged from delicate optics to fine china from each. Each transaction has taught me that there are a lot of really nice folks around the globe and it is a pleasure to meet them. I still get a Christmas Postcard from a lady in Australia that we bought some china from!

When I do finally start selling, I hope I've learned a thing or two about how to do it in a way that sets proper expectations for both parties and minimizes the risks for both.

Thanks again to all that have shared your experiences!

Cheers!
Blake


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TG
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Cotts]
      #6144214 - 10/18/13 03:33 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Paul, as for shipping to my American Friend in Buffalo, he is the proprietor of an internationally-known Astronomical Accessories firm and is far better known in the community than I am. Shipping to him wouldn't look so skeezy, I suspect. As well, no one ships till my payment clears so how could the American seller go wrong?

Dave




If I, the seller, don't know you, how can I be sure that you aren't paying with a stolen/forged check or credit card when you're asking me to ship to a different address? For stolen credit cards, there is protection for the buyer but I don't think any for the seller. For the bad check, you are simply out of luck if you ship before it clears.

Tanveer.




Tanveer, read my last sentence you quoted above. I would never expect anyone to ship anything until my payment had cleared. And no one does in the AM and CN Classifieds.

Also, for those 'who don't know someone' check their ratings.........

Dave




I don't mean to be argumentative but:

- Typically banks will make funds available when you deposit a check and if it turns out to be forged, they'll reverse the deposit and this can be weeks later. No one's going to wait that long to ship and most everybody assumes that once the funds show up in your account the check has 'cleared'. For certified checks, one almost never waits for it to clear. As for who ships before payment, I've had a gentleman or two ship before my payment reached them and I've done the same recently when the buyer told me he'd mailed me an MO. The items involved were sub $250 items though and it wasn't worth worrying about them. I for sure would not do this for $5000 items.

- Your account can be compromised. You may think your password is secure but just read this to shake your confidence in passwords. All it takes is for the site's password hashes to be stolen. This has happened to numerous big name companies who drop big bucks on security. Consider that small operations can't afford to spend too much on security and one sees the problem.

Having someone request shipping to a 3rd party address raises immediate red flags for me. I wouldn't make a deal without talking on the phone.

Tanveer.


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BSJ
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: TG]
      #6144338 - 10/18/13 07:41 AM

Yep, the funds showing up is not the same as cleared! It can bounce WEEKS later and you're stuck with little recourse. If you “spend” it right away and then it bounces, you’re stuck with the overdraft fees and problems!

I took a personal check, once. What a hassle.

The bank's phone number on the check, was not the payee's local bank. It was the "headquarters" in another state, but they didn't know the number for his local bank.

After hours of research, I did find the number. And even then, they would only tell me that there was money in the account. But not if any stop payment or any other funny business was possible. NEVER again!!!

US Postal Money orders or nothing for me. If they won't take that as payment, or don't want to send one to me, then it's no deal. I miss out on stuff sometimes, but life is too short to deal with the problems...


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dawziecat
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: BSJ]
      #6144443 - 10/18/13 08:59 AM

One thing missing from this "getting cheated" is consideration of the fact that the folks who won't ship before receiving payment, won't do Paypal or personal checks, etc, is that, while they demand near absolute security for themselves, they totally forget both parties are always at risk in these transactions.

You insist you have absolute control over my money before you ship. Good for you. Not so good for me. Then you turn around and don't ship anything, or ship a brick.

If someone doesn't take a risk, no sale is possible. I guess caveat emptor ever applies but I am unsure how we reached the point on the internet that the the buyer always has to assume the lion's share of the risk. It's true that feedback ratings are there to help. But we all start with zero feedback.

Back to the thread topic: Last night I was contacted by a US seller responding to a want ad I posted a couple of weeks back. We quickly concluded a deal. So, my account does work fine. The last several times out, when I received no reply at all from several different sellers in succession, was, perhaps, just an unfortunate aberration.
I hope so.


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: TG]
      #6144521 - 10/18/13 09:47 AM

Quote:


Having someone request shipping to a 3rd party address raises immediate red flags for me. I wouldn't make a deal without talking on the phone.




For me, it depends on the venue. Astromart, someone with 100 transactions or someone who has been a member for a while, I am not concerned. Unlike venues where people primarily use aliases, (Ebay, CN), when people use their real names and those ratings stick with that name, I am comfortable.

But then, I rarely sell, I mostly just give stuff away.

Jon


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dawziecat
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6144550 - 10/18/13 10:06 AM

Quote:

I mostly just give stuff away.

Jon




Ummm . . . got a 22mm Nagler lying around? and, ummm . . . do you ship to Canada?


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dawziecat
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: k9yr]
      #6144558 - 10/18/13 10:10 AM

Quote:

Kinda related, I ordered an Alt Az mount from Canadian Telescopes which offers free shipping in Canada, however because I'm in the US in Illinois I had to pick up the $75 shipping charge. Then when UPS showed up with my mount I had to pay UPS an additional $25.




Of course, this is just "standard operating procedure" that every Canadian ordering from the US experiences as a matter of course.

Buy why in hades would an American EVER order a mount from a Canadian retailer?

Only thing Americans should EVER order from Canada is maple syrup. Oh, wait, I forgot. New England has great maple syrup!

Edited by dawziecat (10/18/13 10:13 AM)


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csrlice12
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6144568 - 10/18/13 10:18 AM

I'm like Jon. While I would charge for an expensive item, for some things, like a stock diagonal, focuser, or non-premium eyepieces (like the Orion Expanses)I've just given them to people...they came with equipment purchases (scopes), so I really didn't feel I had anything invested in them anyway. I'm lucky enough to be able to afford higher end equipment, and would rather see stuff I will never use go to someone who can use it...

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tomcody
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6144666 - 10/18/13 11:20 AM

Quote:


Only thing Americans should EVER order from Canada is maple syrup. Oh, wait, I forgot. New England has great maple syrup!



I'll differ with that statement. Kendrick has great astro gear, I've owned their observer tent, battery supply and dew control systems, all the best available IMO! and I don't hesitate to order across the border from them, Everything has always arrived fine! ( after all they are in the business to sell and ship to the US and other countries, unlike private citizens).
Rex


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dawziecat
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: tomcody]
      #6144692 - 10/18/13 11:37 AM

Quote:


I'll differ with that statement. Kendrick has great astro gear,
Rex




Hi Rex.
Kendrick, of course is great. I have their stuff. But surely it would be cheaper for an American to order it from a US reseller . . . like Kendrick at OPT?


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tomcody
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6144729 - 10/18/13 11:54 AM

Actually, Kendrick told me (as I recall) they ship to a US facility of theirs in the Buffalo area (perhaps their US distributer? and then ship to US addresses from there. So the prices and shipping are about the same as at an US dealer,
(perhaps there is a charge for the US/CAD exchange on my CC but that is about the only difference).
Rex

Edited by tomcody (10/18/13 12:01 PM)


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mclewis1
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6144799 - 10/18/13 12:33 PM

Quote:

Of course, this is just "standard operating procedure" that every Canadian ordering from the US experiences as a matter of course.

Buy why in hades would an American EVER order a mount from a Canadian retailer?




Terry,

That's one of my biggest pet peeves with US vendors. "Free shipping" is a great marketing concept but please don't tell me that it's actually free. Shipping costs are factored into the margin and selling prices. If a vendor offers free shipping on a product within the US I should get a small discount on the shipping fees outside of CONUS. I'm not asking for free shipping internationally, just honoring the fact that free CONUS shipping costs are already accounted for in a product's selling price.

There are also a number of products available in Canada and not in the US, one example are a number of the SkyWatcher products such as the EQ8 mount.

Edited by mclewis1 (10/18/13 06:08 PM)


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BSJ
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6144815 - 10/18/13 12:44 PM

I also don't cash the MO until I hear the buyer is happy. If they aren't, I send it back to them, when I get the item back in my hands.

So yes, both parties have risk. But I control mine as much as possible...


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dawziecat
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: mclewis1]
      #6144825 - 10/18/13 12:49 PM

Hi Mark:

Of course I understand there is no such thing as "free shipping."

Well, wait. Maybe there is. By that I mean I can get an item for a certain dollar amount shipped "free" in that the retail price remains the same if I order the item from another seller, the manufacturer really, who charges for shipping. I suppose its part of the manufacturer not wanting to "step" on his dealers but the effect remains the same. Bottom line is that it is cheaper from the reseller selling at MSRP with "free shipping" than the manufacturer selling at MSRP but charging for shipping. I have a specific case in mind but it likely would be poor form to mention names. Also, I think it is pretty common. The manufacturers often to seem to quote prices for shipping considerably higher than those quoted even by the dealers who do not offer "free" shipping?

I recently bailed from a manufacturer's web site after seeing his quoted rate for shipping to Canada and ordered the items from OPT instead. Shipping was not "free" to Canada of course, but was appreciably lower than quoted on the manufacturer's site.


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mclewis1
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6145354 - 10/18/13 06:16 PM

Quote:

Hi Mark: Of course I understand there is no such thing as "free shipping."



Ooops, sorry Terry. I just re read my post ... I didn't mean for it to read like I was referring to you. That sentence was intended as if I was addressing the vendors.

I should add that good prices in combination with free shipping is a great concept and I've even seen it on some Canadian dealer websites. I just hate the idea of paying for shipping twice on orders from US vendors.


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csrlice12
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: mclewis1]
      #6145388 - 10/18/13 06:39 PM

Look at it this way, it balances out...you have darker skies.....

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Cotts
Just Wondering
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Reged: 10/10/05

Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6146313 - 10/19/13 10:00 AM

Quote:


Only thing Americans should EVER order from Canada is maple syrup.




And hockey pucks! Right, Rex??

Dave


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dawziecat
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Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Cotts]
      #6146410 - 10/19/13 10:53 AM

I was just cleaning up some paperwork and offer this with no editorial comment.

I ordered this thing from a Canadian retailer late this spring. You can see the cost at a US retailer in the link.

My final cost, after HST and shipping from the Canadian concern? $201.13

Cost of the item alone, before taxes or shipping? $174.90


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tomcody
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Cotts]
      #6146664 - 10/19/13 01:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Only thing Americans should EVER order from Canada is maple syrup.




And hockey pucks! Right, Rex??
Dave



Sorry Dave, I don't play hockey, I got the game scared out of me at a Buffalo/Mapleleaf game in Buffalo when I was about 10, my aunt got into a fist fight with a Canadian player who came up into the stands and it ended up with about 10 members of my family fighting with the Canadian team in the stands until the cops broke it up, lots of black eyes and bruises on both sides.
But it was a game I won't forget!
Hope to see you at Chiefland.
Rex


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Cotts
Just Wondering
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6146667 - 10/19/13 01:01 PM

Terry, are you saying the $52 US cost became $174.90 just because a Canadian store was the 'source' of your purchase?

If so, you didn' actually go through with the purchase, did you?

you could have bought one from jim Kendrick for under 60 bucks or a heated one for about $90.....

Dave

Edited by Cotts (10/19/13 01:08 PM)


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Cotts
Just Wondering
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: tomcody]
      #6146670 - 10/19/13 01:04 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


Only thing Americans should EVER order from Canada is maple syrup.




And hockey pucks! Right, Rex??
Dave



Sorry Dave, I don't play hockey, I got the game scared out of me at a Buffalo/Mapleleaf game in Buffalo when I was about 10, my aunt got into a fist fight with a Canadian player who came up into the stands and it ended up with about 10 members of my family fighting with the Canadian team in the stands until the cops broke it up, lots of black eyes and bruises on both sides.
But it was a game I won't forget!
Hope to see you at Chiefland.
Rex





In other news, there are two guys named 'Rex' in this thread!

Dave


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starrancher
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Cotts]
      #6146723 - 10/19/13 01:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Only thing Americans should EVER order from Canada is maple syrup.




And hockey pucks! Right, Rex??

Dave




Wait a minute . That summer sausage packed in the cotton sack by Schneiders is something that just cannot be found in the states . One has to con his relatives into sending it for the holidays or bringing some with them when they come down to visit .


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starrancher
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: tomcody]
      #6146738 - 10/19/13 01:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


Only thing Americans should EVER order from Canada is maple syrup.




And hockey pucks! Right, Rex??
Dave



Sorry Dave, I don't play hockey, I got the game scared out of me at a Buffalo/Mapleleaf game in Buffalo when I was about 10, my aunt got into a fist fight with a Canadian player who came up into the stands and it ended up with about 10 members of my family fighting with the Canadian team in the stands until the cops broke it up, lots of black eyes and bruises on both sides.
But it was a game I won't forget!
Hope to see you at Chiefland.
Rex




At one time , we went to a heavyweight boxing match and it broke out into a hockey game .


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dawziecat
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Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Cotts]
      #6146779 - 10/19/13 02:17 PM

Quote:

Terry, are you saying the $52 US cost became $174.90 just because a Canadian store was the 'source' of your purchase?

If so, you didn' actually go through with the purchase, did you?

you could have bought one from jim Kendrick for under 60 bucks or a heated one for about $90.....

Dave




I am saying EXACTLY that, Dave! Although we are comparing 52USD to 175 CDN. Have the paperwork to prove it! I did go through with the purchase. It will likely be the last time I deal with that particular CDN astro retailer. My other experiences with CDN astro retailers, while not quite so extreme, were not "stellar," Either.

An SSAG certainly cost me more than ordering from the US would have cost but it was in stock in Canada and I "needed" it.

Another retailer, although supposedly a rep. for Astronomik in Canada, was not prepared to get an EOS Ha clip-in for me. I ordered it from OPT.

I'm pretty much through with the CDN retailers.

The shipping charge alone on the Astrozap was $25.
I doubt OPT would have charged much more to ship into Canada. There is not a Canadian on this board that would not recognize the name of the dealer I bought the astrozap from. The Astronomik "non-dealer" is not so well known.


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2244champ
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Reged: 03/16/11

Loc: Salem County N.J.
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6342186 - 01/29/14 12:46 AM

I've sold 12 items on CN that said "will ship CONUS" for a specific amount (that way the buyer knows his exact cost). Two of the buyers were from Canada. I spent much more time packaging the items for shipment than I did at the post office. The main difference I noted was that it took much more time for delivery up north. Although I've seen a lot of rude behavior on the internet, I must say that almost all my interactions on Cloudy Nights have been positive and I am grateful for so many sharing their experience on these threads. To my northern neighbors, I say keep responding to ads and don't be discouraged. Clear skies, Doug

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Skunky
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Reged: 09/16/13

Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: 2244champ]
      #6342205 - 01/29/14 01:06 AM

I just got slapped with a $36 duty and brokerage fee's for an SQM! shipped in to the US via UPS. stick with USPS.. lol..

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TG
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/02/06

Loc: Latitude 47
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: Skunky]
      #6343129 - 01/29/14 01:18 PM

Nothing to do with Canadians but here's my recent experience trying to sell my C11HD to a gentleman from another Commonwealth nation (Australia):

Looked up size and weight restrictions on usps.gov. They tell me that it can't be over 108in girth (length + 2x width + 2x height). It just fit, actually was probably 1/2 an inch over but I figured they'd give me that leeway. The weight was below their limit as well (I think it was 50lbs or so). Cost was a whopping $445 but the buyer was willing to pay it. (FedEx/UPS were $800-1000!).

Double boxed it going to a lot of trouble to keep within the size restrictions. Then hauled it to the PO and stood in line for 20 minutes before the lady comes out with a tape measure and tells me it can't go. Why?? It has to be within 80in (not the 108in the website told me). Another associate helpfully tells me it could go to UK. Then: perhaps I could break it up and pack into separate packages? No, thank you.

I refunded the money and sold to another buyer in CO and felt really bad for the original buyer. Makes me want to stick to 'CONUS only' in my ads but I'm too egalitarian for that.

Tanveer.


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BillP
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Reged: 11/26/06

Loc: Vienna, VA
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: TG]
      #6343313 - 01/29/14 02:55 PM

Selling internationally, even from US to Canada has its issues. The 1st one for me is insurance - can't do it or way expensive. I've done a few international sales where I had to tell the buyer that I will ship, but it's all at their risk and if it does not show up I can't refund anything. Most buyers don't like that. But what can I do when easy enough to ship within CONUS and for $10 get insurance to cover lost or damage!

I usually say CONUS when I sell. However, I usually get a lot of folks from other countries that still ask. I'm ok with that. If they are willing to take the risk of no refunds and pay the high postage rates these days, then ok. But always makes me nerveous because I want all transactions to be smooth and everyone with a smile.

btw, USPS is getting way crazy (better than commercial but still...). I wanted to ship a small book to UK (2-3 pounds). USPS told me cheapest was $26! FedEx was over $80!! Crazy!


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dawziecat
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Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Canadians: Effectively shut out of used market. new [Re: BillP]
      #6343342 - 01/29/14 03:06 PM

yah, Bill. I know all too well. Even shipping WITHIN Canada is just over the top now! Can't do it for penny-ante stuff anymore!

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