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shurik
super member


Reged: 10/07/07

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: sullij1]
      #4630841 - 06/09/11 06:56 PM

Just to follow up on the previous question, so do we really need a shutter?? does it affect image quality /download time if the chip is open during the data transfer? does it affect the quality of the next frame? or even worth can it electrically damage the chip during long night sequence (lets say 100 of 3 minutes exposures)?

thank you all for contributing this is great thread !


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macona
sage
*****

Reged: 05/18/11

Loc: Beaverton, OR
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: shurik]
      #4630900 - 06/09/11 07:29 PM

I think I got it going. I was getting way too much light to the sensor with the lens it came with. I took some black tape and made a pinhole in front of the CCD and I can see an image.

Now I need to adapt and get a field reducer for my lx200.

-Jerry


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sullij1
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: sullij1]
      #4631025 - 06/09/11 08:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:

That shutter is for an aps-c sized sensor which is a tad smaller. Possibly a shutter curtain from a full sized sensor like a Canon 5D, 1D, or Nikon D700 and D3.

-Jerry




Right again Jerry, I posted that as an example. I found and purchased one of these http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320497395339&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

There appears to be several more available. I was thinking test to see if it works on the Quantix circuit and maybe use black poster board or some other spacer, and some spacer bushings to open the faceplate wide enough to accept it and use longer screws to tighten it down. Kevin and Keith my have other suggestions.

Sullij




FYI,Just recieved the above shutter. Better to avoid this one. The selenoid is designed such that the height will not allow the faceplate to fit close enough to the camera to be practicle.


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sullij1
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: shurik]
      #4631059 - 06/09/11 09:11 PM

Quote:

Just to follow up on the previous question, so do we really need a shutter?? does it affect image quality /download time if the chip is open during the data transfer? does it affect the quality of the next frame? or even worth can it electrically damage the chip during long night sequence (lets say 100 of 3 minutes exposures)?

thank you all for contributing this is great thread !




Hi Shurik,

Kevin, Keith, and Jerry were right about the necessity of the shutter. As uou can see from Kevins pictures without the shutter, Blooming and read out artifacts will fast become a problem. I was hoping to not have to incorporate a shutter but the reality is "it is necessary". Look for shutters that have selenoids with a flat profile so the faceplate will not have to be raised by a lot(1/4 or 3/8 inch or so). I intend to place the shutter below the faceplate in some kind of spacer material (poster board or pelxi) and use spacers to raise the faceplate high enough to accomodate the shutter. As Kevin showed us in an earlier pic post we can use the cam circuit to power the shutter.


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macona
sage
*****

Reged: 05/18/11

Loc: Beaverton, OR
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: sullij1]
      #4631108 - 06/09/11 09:39 PM

Quote:



FYI,Just recieved the above shutter. Better to avoid this one. The selenoid is designed such that the height will not allow the faceplate to fit close enough to the camera to be practicle.




Considering that the factory mount places the shutter 1.03" away from the focal plane of the sensor it should be pretty easy to build an enclosure for it.

I just bought one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200572637049

It ought to fit pretty well.


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gnabgib
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 06/05/05

Loc: Fall River MIlls Ca.
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: macona]
      #4631144 - 06/09/11 10:11 PM

Quote:

I think I got it going. I was getting way too much light to the sensor with the lens it came with. I took some black tape and made a pinhole in front of the CCD and I can see an image.




Jerry;
This is GREAT news! Of the two cameras purchased by Dave and myself the only problem was one of the power supplies had a bad cooling fan! It is a 24v 60mm square CHEAP computer fan AND these are noted for "short life spans". Easy fix though! I also have noticed that the date codes inside the cameras would indicate they were built in 2005. So relatively new.

Kevin


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sullij1
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: macona]
      #4631216 - 06/09/11 10:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:



FYI,Just recieved the above shutter. Better to avoid this one. The selenoid is designed such that the height will not allow the faceplate to fit close enough to the camera to be practicle.




Considering that the factory mount places the shutter 1.03" away from the focal plane of the sensor it should be pretty easy to build an enclosure for it.

I just bought one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200572637049

It ought to fit pretty well.




Jerry,

Also glad you got the cam seeing right. I also picked up one of the shutters you posted. It will probably work out much better. For other users the cam shutters "might" be the only option. You and Kevin have an advantage having machine capabilities and know how. Any option would require some machinist expertise. Thanks for the dimension to sensor note. I took a look at the manual and saw the dimension photometrix gave. Looks like the 35mm shutter can work if one could machine a housing (have a housing machined). I haven’t received the other shutter yet and I am clouded in. I may experiment with getting the 35mm shutter working this week end. Perhaps others may be able to adapt a similar device if it works.


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kw6562
Authoritative Ignoramus
*****

Reged: 06/25/08

Loc: MA
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: sullij1]
      #4631295 - 06/09/11 11:49 PM

I'm planning to design a piece to hold the shutter I bought from Surplus Shed (if it looks like it will work) and to also hold a filter slide. The piece would be sandwiched between the flange and the camera. The slide would contain 4 or 5 2" filters. I might use a rack and pinion to actuate it with a knob (or a stepper, for remote operation). When I get the shutter (hopefully tomorrow) I can start. Probably won't get it designed until early next week and if I'm very lucky I might be able to machine it by the end of the week. Of course I will share the drawings with you all if it works.

Great news Jerry! And yes I did have the gain setting at 3. Will try 1 next time.

Alex, I was using the RSImage software and the frame grabber is installed in an old 1Ghz desktop - a Dell Dimension L1000R. I am only using that PC for capture.

Nice shots Kevin! Your frames look a lot like the kind of images that I see from the CCDs that we make at work, with blooming artifacts, a few warm columns, etc. - the sort of things that one gets with a large-area CCD that's made for astronomy. This is really exciting!

Clear skies --Keith


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macona
sage
*****

Reged: 05/18/11

Loc: Beaverton, OR
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: kw6562]
      #4631427 - 06/10/11 01:57 AM

Now with the gain setting of one the manual says you should be using at least 2x2 binning. So 2 might be the sweet spot for high res capture.

You could use a small dc gear motor, couple microswitches, and a couple little relays for to make a relay logic controlled filter wheel. Thats what I did for the basic control of the turret on my cnc lathe. Since you only need to go in one direction and its fixed points a stepper is kind of silly. Or you could use something like an arduino or pic to eliminate the relays.


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Panza
sage


Reged: 09/26/07

Loc: Lillehammer, Norway
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: gnabgib]
      #4631436 - 06/10/11 02:08 AM

Excuse my ignorance here:
Is there a way to avoid blooming other than cutting exposure time ?
Software for example ?


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sullij1
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: Panza]
      #4632003 - 06/10/11 11:49 AM

Quote:

Excuse my ignorance here:
Is there a way to avoid blooming other than cutting exposure time ?
Software for example ?




Hi,

There is no ignorance here, as far as I am concerned we all learn from eachother hence the only ignorant question is the one you don't ask!

If you find a software solution let us know, I postd this link earlier, it addresses the issue of blooming specifically. Looks as if blooming is a result of chip design and unless compensated for in a different design you simply have to deal with it. Here is the link:
http://www.ccd.com/ccd102.html


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shurik
super member


Reged: 10/07/07

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: sullij1]
      #4632636 - 06/10/11 06:26 PM

Hi guys, What is the latest consensus on how to connect this monster to a laptop? :-), or desktop is the only solution for now?

thank you, Shurik


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macona
sage
*****

Reged: 05/18/11

Loc: Beaverton, OR
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: shurik]
      #4632676 - 06/10/11 06:53 PM

I think unless you have a laptop that supports a docking station with a pci backplane or are willing to spend $1100 (new) on a PCMCIA to PCI adapter you will have to go with a desktop. I am messing with that mini-itx board but I cant get it talking. I need to try reinstalling the driver.

Uniblitz wants $545 for the VS35 shutter.


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sullij1
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: shurik]
      #4632689 - 06/10/11 07:03 PM

Quote:

Hi guys, What is the latest consensus on how to connect this monster to a laptop? :-), or desktop is the only solution for now?

thank you, Shurik




I know that temporarly I am going with an old 1.6 gig desk top I found in the garage. I blew all my doe on on shutters and the cam. Still will have to buy misc nuts, bolts and connectors to get the shutter operational. Next will be parts like filters and a wheel. Just want to get imaging. Then I will go back after the laptop solution. The eaisiest way at present looks like the used dell and docking station with expansion slot. I wanted a new (to me) laptop anyway. Got one ya wanna sell?


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macona
sage
*****

Reged: 05/18/11

Loc: Beaverton, OR
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: macona]
      #4632709 - 06/10/11 07:19 PM

Another option is a Dolch Pac 65. They are an old network analyzer that is just a luggable PC with cards. They have 4 PCI slots and can take up to a 800Mhz PIII. Fast enough for this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/DOLCH-PAC-65-NETWORK-SNIFFER-/200502413298?pt=BI_Analyzers&hash=item2eaee007f2


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shurik
super member


Reged: 10/07/07

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: macona]
      #4633946 - 06/11/11 01:12 PM

Ok, after doing some search on the net I came to the following conclusion (correct me if I am wrong , because I very much want to be wrong) this camera is suited only for permanent setup observatory that has desktop or it's alternative avalable. I don't see any of us shelling $1000 for magma adapter or carrying "portable desktop/monitor/spare
12V battery out in the field...I also can't envision how an old "network
sniffer" or its alternative is going to be happy with other astroimaging
applications that usually have to run at the same time during imaging session on the laptop (mount guiding etc.)

so I guess this takes this camera out of most important DSO astroimaging factor: going to the dark site..

Once again please let us know if you found reasonably priced and portable solution to the dreaded PCI

shurik


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macona
sage
*****

Reged: 05/18/11

Loc: Beaverton, OR
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: shurik]
      #4634067 - 06/11/11 02:17 PM

It just depends on what you are considering portable. I am already dragging around a 60+ pound scope, tripod, and accessories. An additional computer is not that big of a deal. You could make up a pelican case that has the monitor installed in the lid, computer below, wireless keyboard, inverter for camera power supply, and space to store the cameras, optics, and other do-dads. Get one with wheels and just drag it where you want to go.

As for the processor power of the sniffer, Its just a portable computer made by BSI with the Dolch cards added. You can put up to a 800mhz PIII, which is easily enough to run the camera, which has a recommended minimum of a 200MHz PII. And as long as you are not processing the images on the computer you should easily have enough power for guiding. None of this is processor demanding work.


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sullij1
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: shurik]
      #4634375 - 06/11/11 05:54 PM

Quote:

Ok, after doing some search on the net I came to the following conclusion (correct me if I am wrong , because I very much want to be wrong) this camera is suited only for permanent setup observatory that has desktop or it's alternative avalable. I don't see any of us shelling $1000 for magma adapter or carrying "portable desktop/monitor/spare
12V battery out in the field...I also can't envision how an old "network
sniffer" or its alternative is going to be happy with other astroimaging
applications that usually have to run at the same time during imaging session on the laptop (mount guiding etc.)

so I guess this takes this camera out of most important DSO astroimaging factor: going to the dark site..

Once again please let us know if you found reasonably priced and portable solution to the dreaded PCI

shurik




For the "time being" the setup will be relegated to the backyard or an observatory. As Jerry points out, (in abbreviation) "where there is a will there is a way". I like you want to see this setup become more portable and will continue to seek out a way to make that happen. Keeping things in a reasonable budget will take time and research but I feel it is doable for a working guy. I will continue to keep folks posted as I earn my way to solutions. BTW here is a link to some more shutters like Keith is using.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ELECTRIC-SHUTTER-BRASS-LENS-8X10-VIEW-FIELD-CAMERA-/280651620117?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item415823df15


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gatsbyiv
sage


Reged: 03/29/09

Loc: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: sullij1]
      #4634638 - 06/11/11 09:11 PM

I was finally able to clear some time to play with this thing today. Once I figured out that it was ridiculously sensitive, I was able to get it to do some indoor images. Even with .001 second exposures, it needed a dark room. Wow. So the good news for me is that it is a working unit. (And the seller included a shot he took with it before sending it on the CD.)

Now for mounting it. Are we sure these are not standard Nikon F-mounts? I measure 44mm, with a 0.5mm thread pitch. I am expecting a Nikon F T-ring any day now (seems the USPS has lost it), so I'll be able to try and know for sure.

This is going to get interesting adding a shutter and filter wheel...


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shurik
super member


Reged: 10/07/07

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: sullij1]
      #4634670 - 06/11/11 09:40 PM

Quote:

What a great community! Sounds like we are all aspiring to put together a system we would not otherwise be able to afford. I will do my part in researching solutions to the various issues. Many thanks to my skilled astronomy colleagues and their generous offerings. I have been searching for more portable solutions for my set up than a pc build (I too can mod one of my old pc’s but this limits portability). I have to set up and tear down during my sessions so I am looking to making that process as painless as possible. The pc box is fine for those of us that have a yard or observatory we can work with. Unfortunately that limits portability to a dark site without sufficient power. I was considering this gamer vid card expansion for the laptop to keep it portable. http://www.villageinstruments.com/tiki-index.php?page=ViDock
Still coming in around the 200 dollar mark, it is better than the Magma price, this solution is a toss-up between the dock station laptop and the expansion card from a cost perspective. Perhaps it is doable for some members working on this project. Still looking for a surplus shutter solution.




the one we need would be ViDock 4 Plus ($279) ? we can't use half size or express PSI that most dock stations are equiped with ? still "somewhat pricey" but better than 1K from magma, assuming its a right size


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