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frebieAdministrator
Chief assistant to the assistant chief


Reged: 04/29/08

Loc: Neither here nor there.
Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: jmiele]
      #4812600 - 09/17/11 11:38 AM

Quote:

From the photo a saw the CO is at least 40%. Additionally, given the math it would have to be. It's certainly not 18-20%.




The secondary obstruction of the 10" is 4.05" in diameter, or 40.5% by diameter. The obstruction of the 10" by area is therefore 20.95% (the figure Meade gives). The obstruction of the 12" is 4.36" by diameter, or 36.3%. By area it is 16.86% (the figure Meade gives).

By comparison, the diameter of the obstruction of the Celestron 11" EdgeHD optical tube is 3.75", or 34% by dimeter and 11.6% by area.

Meade's figures are correct. They simply specified the obstruction only as a percentage of the area in their preliminary specs, rather than give the obstruction by both diameter and area.


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Dave M
Postmaster
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Reged: 08/03/04

Loc: Ohio
Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: frebie]
      #4812963 - 09/17/11 03:10 PM

Not that color matters, but is the LX-80 and LX-800 both the dark Meade Blue ?, or is it just the image/lighting that makes the LX-80 look more like its a lighter metallic blue color.
Will the LX-80 accept Losmandy D style plates ?
Great! looking mounts..

Edited by Dave M (09/17/11 03:26 PM)


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Mike Harvey
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/01/04

Loc: Orlando, FL.
Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: WizWoz]
      #4813046 - 09/17/11 04:11 PM

Quote:

Joe,
It appears you've mixed the proverbial Apples and Oranges. One figure is the CO as a % of Diameter and the other % of Area. Both numbers are very different as you can see. For example: a 10" with a CO of 40% by width would be the same as saying a CO of 16% by area. I believe this is an item a number of folks get confused or "tricked" by. Has about the same effect as mixing up inches and centimeters. Not a big deal......




But, remember that the DIAMETER of the CO vs. the PRIMARY APERTURE produces a different effect than the AREA comparison.

% of diameter relates to resolution/contrast and % of surface area relates to light gathering. The two measurements produce completely different effects and should not be used individually or interchangeably to describe the overall performance of an optical system.

The greatest area of concern for most buyers/observers seems to be loss of contrast with larger (by diameter - D vs. d) CO's.
I've been a serious planetary observer for more than 30 years and, yes, I can see a difference in contrast between a small (or no) CO vs. a larger one when observing faint, delicate detail on Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. But I honestly doubt that a more casual observer would even notice it.

***Nowadays I do 90% of my observing with the Mallincam anyway, which renders the CO/contrast loss question moot, since I can adjust the contrast on my video monitor!
If you're planning on imaging vs. visual observing, the size of the CO is also of little concern since you'll be post-processing your images anyway.
(Finally - the largest observatory scopes in the world sometimes have CO's of 50% (!) of diameter....they still seem to work rather well).

For visual observers, it's important to remember than ANY contrast loss is subject to MTF (modulation transfer function) considerations and what this means in real-life is that brighter, more-contrasty objects will be LEAST affected by the central obstruction. The moon, Jupiter's main belts, Saturn's Cassini division and ring shadow and even Mars' more obvious markings are simply not affected to any obvious extent!

My belief is that most of the "contrast loss" complaints re: SCT's are, in reality, image defects caused by collimation errors.
Meade's ACF scopes have vastly improved secondary mechanics. My 10" arrived PERFECTLY collimated and, nearly two years later, I've never had to touch it! (Though I DO check it every time I take it out).
This was certainly NOT the case with earlier Meades (and Celestrons) and most of the ones I see at star parties are simply not collimated. SCT's have taken a big 'hit' for poor images that are, actually, the fault of the scope's owner...not the scope itself.

I'll have my 10" Meade ACF set up with a Mallincam at Chiefland next month. Please feel free to stop by and see for yourself what can be done.
(And, hopefully soon, I plan to have a new 12" or 14" f/8 ACF LX800!).

Mike Harvey


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Awesomelenny
Post Laureate
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Reged: 05/02/04

Loc: Long: 81.42 W Lat: 41.21 N
Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: *skyguy*]
      #4816270 - 09/19/11 01:31 PM

Quote:

Well now .... for the LX800, that's the most useless spot to store the handcontroller I've ever seen on any scope. However, it does work well if I'm going to spend all my time observing Polaris! What ever happened to the engineering creed: "Form follows Function." C'mon Meade ... wake up!




You just WON the FIRST PRIZE for being the first to $&#^%#%$$^ about a brand NEW Meade product!!!

Personally I don't see anything wrong with the Hand Paddle location! To boot, looking at the photo...I wonder if it's the wireless version!!?? That'd be like real COOL!


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frebieAdministrator
Chief assistant to the assistant chief


Reged: 04/29/08

Loc: Neither here nor there.
Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: Dave M]
      #4816279 - 09/19/11 01:39 PM

Quote:

Will the LX-80 accept Losmandy D style plates?




The two dovetails supplied (one permanent on the top of the head for German equatorial and single OTA altazimuth use; one removable for the end of the counterweight shaft for dual OTA altazimuth use) are for Vixen-style dovetails only. No plans that I know of as of now for Losmandy D-plates,


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Dave M
Postmaster
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Reged: 08/03/04

Loc: Ohio
Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: frebie]
      #4816370 - 09/19/11 02:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Will the LX-80 accept Losmandy D style plates?




The two dovetails supplied (one permanent on the top of the head for German equatorial and single OTA altazimuth use; one removable for the end of the counterweight shaft for dual OTA altazimuth use) are for Vixen-style dovetails only. No plans that I know of as of now for Losmandy D-plates,




Figures!, Thanks for the reply..


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dkb
sage


Reged: 07/23/08

Loc: Minnesota
Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: Dave M]
      #4816464 - 09/19/11 03:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Will the LX-80 accept Losmandy D style plates?




The two dovetails supplied (one permanent on the top of the head for German equatorial and single OTA altazimuth use; one removable for the end of the counterweight shaft for dual OTA altazimuth use) are for Vixen-style dovetails only. No plans that I know of as of now for Losmandy D-plates,




Figures!, Thanks for the reply..



"Permanent" meaning welded on or is there actually a bolt that would allow you to remove the plate and replace with a 3rd party plate?


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frebieAdministrator
Chief assistant to the assistant chief


Reged: 04/29/08

Loc: Neither here nor there.
Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: dkb]
      #4816606 - 09/19/11 04:44 PM

Can't tell from the images, and they haven't shipped any mounts yet to see for myself, but I'd be shocked if they welded it on. It would make much more sense to manufacture the dovetails separately and bolt them onto the top of the mount and the end of the counterweight shaft rather than go to the expense of two different manufacturing procedures to attach identical parts to two ends of a single shaft.

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LLEEGE
True Blue
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Reged: 03/03/05

Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: frebie]
      #4817641 - 09/20/11 08:39 AM

The Meade site now has the new mounts listed. No mention of the uncorrected PE. Hmm.

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peleuba
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/01/04

Loc: Southern PA
Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: Mike Harvey]
      #4824039 - 09/23/11 05:15 PM

Quote:


My belief is that most of the "contrast loss" complaints re: SCT's are, in reality, image defects caused by collimation errors.
Meade's ACF scopes have vastly improved secondary mechanics. My 10" arrived PERFECTLY collimated and, nearly two years later, I've never had to touch it! (Though I DO check it every time I take it out).
This was certainly NOT the case with earlier Meades (and Celestrons) and most of the ones I see at star parties are simply not collimated. SCT's have taken a big 'hit' for poor images that are, actually, the fault of the scope's owner...not the scope itself.
Mike Harvey





Interesting discussion - Ive been resisting the urge to get into Malin-Camming. I really need to try this.

I've found, first hand, after reviewing bench test results that much of the issues with commercially available Meade and Celestron offerings are related to extremely rough surfaces on the primary mirror and corrector plate. While poor collimation contributes to poor images, it will not induce abberations, except for coma, that are not already present. A miscollimated scope will still have a a sweet spot, its just not going to be in the middle of the FOV.

Collimation is important each and every time out, however, it will not make up for the machine-polishing artifacts that remain in the primary and corrector plate in most (all?) SCT's. At least the ones I have personally owned, viewed through and tested.


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REC
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: NC
Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: peleuba]
      #4834285 - 09/29/11 01:56 PM

FYI.....Meade just broke new ads on both new scopes and mounts in the November issue of Astronomy magazine.

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peter k
sage


Reged: 02/03/07

Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: REC]
      #4834318 - 09/29/11 02:13 PM

November S&T too.

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Ptarmigan
Lagopus lagopus
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Reged: 09/23/04

Loc: Arctic
Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: Astronomics]
      #4836694 - 09/30/11 08:33 PM

The LX80 looks interesting.

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Andrea Salati
newbie
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Reged: 11/24/10

Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: rmollise]
      #4837873 - 10/01/11 04:26 PM

I am intrigued and skeptical at the same time. I personally might appreciate the LX80, it might fit my needs.
But I look at the connection between the legs and the base and ... am I the only one who finds that ridiculous?
I am not even commenting the same issue on the LX800.


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rmollise
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: peleuba]
      #4839114 - 10/02/11 11:54 AM

Quote:



I've found, first hand, after reviewing bench test results that much of the issues with commercially available Meade and Celestron offerings are related to extremely rough surfaces on the primary mirror and corrector plate.




Whose bench test results? Yours? What is "extremely rough"? I have most assuredly not seen this in current Meade and Celestron optics.

If, by "collimation is important each and every time" you mean the collimation has to be adjusted before every observing run, the telescope has not been properly collimated.


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dscarpa
Post Laureate
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Reged: 03/15/08

Loc: San Diego Ca.
Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: Astronomics]
      #4843562 - 10/04/11 01:34 PM

On the subject of COs I've been told larger ones make a scope more seeing sensitive. My IM715 at 25% deals with less than optimal conditions much better than my C9.25 at 36%. To me it looks like some of this is due to the extra light of the SCT blurring the image in fair-poor conditions but I CO size may also be a factor. On the subject of the mounts if the LX80 pans out as advertised I might get one for my C9.25 which is now on a Giro. I could fund part of it by selling my CG5GT and WO EZ. My IM715 at present on the EZ would go on the Giro. I see the LX800 has a LS type alignment routine. If Meade had a similar setup on the LX80 it would be ideal for me. David

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Ed J
member


Reged: 05/31/07

Loc: Tujunga, California
Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: dscarpa]
      #4854553 - 10/10/11 07:16 PM

Now let me get this right. The LX800 specs say" High Precision Guiding +/- 1 arcsecond RMS (with good seeing)" on this intergrated package.
That would be a godsend to astroimagers, like me that struggle to get round star images after about a 20 minute exposure.

Has anybody had a chance to try this out with the LX800?

Ed

Edited by Ed J (10/10/11 07:19 PM)


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LLEEGE
True Blue
*****

Reged: 03/03/05

Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: Ed J]
      #4855391 - 10/11/11 09:28 AM

No. They are not shipping yet.

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Rustie
super member
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Reged: 04/07/05

Loc: Southampton, UK
Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: LLEEGE]
      #4872296 - 10/21/11 09:39 AM

Looks good, looks very good. The price looks excellent for the specs and hopefully the electronics will be robust from day one.

But there is one worrying detail they have managed to slip in there if you are an imager. And that is the ST4 port is only available with the optional module.......alarm bells ringing loudly. Not a re-run of the #909 accessory port module. An ST4 port should be integrated part of the mount in this day and age, especially a mount like this. And as Meade have a habit of discontinuing there optional accessories long before the main product finishes its life cycle, that is a worry.

Edited by Rustie (10/21/11 09:43 AM)


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LLEEGE
True Blue
*****

Reged: 03/03/05

Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
Re: New Meade LX80 and LX800 scopes coming this year. new [Re: Rustie]
      #4872327 - 10/21/11 10:02 AM

100% agree.

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