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hfjacinto
I think he's got it!
*****

Reged: 01/12/09

Loc: Land of clouds and LP
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5163776 - 04/09/12 03:22 PM

Hmm, a 150MM EON like scope????



Markus,

Can it be all black?


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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: hfjacinto]
      #5163833 - 04/09/12 04:12 PM

what do you mean with EON like ? EON use FPL 53 as doublet, we design with chinese FK61 = FPL 51 as doublet , means of course less colorfree

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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5165360 - 04/10/12 02:50 PM

I got the first design today, but not in the way I want to help people to understand diffrences and also the manufactures want to show the best possible, not what we ask, the good and least expensive, so have to make clear again what we want.
Should have soonest a result to show


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Vondragonnoggin
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/21/10

Loc: Southern CA, USA
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5166663 - 04/11/12 10:41 AM

Quote:

I got the first design today, but not in the way I want to help people to understand diffrences and also the manufactures want to show the best possible, not what we ask, the good and least expensive, so have to make clear again what we want.
Should have soonest a result to show





Keeping my eye on this! Not hard to understand people not getting the idea of what you want - just look at the thread that started it. Really hard to get people to understand what was being asked.


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t.r.
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5168177 - 04/12/12 09:55 AM

I applaud your efforts. And, as always the masses want more. What the planetary refractor user really wants is a 7" (180mm) doublet, with some punch and ability to go deep-sky close to the level as a 10" reflector. If you build a 180mm f/8-9 doublet...they will beat your doors down to get it! Or at least I will. Think of it as an improved Meade 178ED with better glass and modern coatings. I'll talk more with you at NEAF...I'm intrigued.

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skyjim
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/13/07

Loc: Carmel, NY
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: t.r.]
      #5168723 - 04/12/12 02:52 PM

Markus "You Da Man" this is all great news and my post in the refractor forum is up to 10 pages and building, I would have never thought this much interest but many minds here think alike, many here want this type of scope, its kinda middle ground for ED refractors and I myself who have always favored the 7" class MCT would replace that scope in a hartbeat with a 6" ED semi apo, I have done side by side comparo's with even the AT152 on many deep sky objects and the frack does better, lunar the mac does better but I am willing to bet the 6" Ed your talking about will be the MCT's equal. Seeya at Neaf.
Jim


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doctordub
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/11/06

Loc: New Rochelle, New York
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: skyjim]
      #5169021 - 04/12/12 05:58 PM

I will be in line for this scope as well. I guess I will be selling a few scopes!

CS
Jonathan


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watcher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/21/07

Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5169519 - 04/13/12 12:11 AM

Quote:

I got the first design today, but not in the way I want to help people to understand diffrences and also the manufactures want to show the best possible, not what we ask, the good and least expensive, so have to make clear again what we want.
Should have soonest a result to show




Markus. Is there any minimum quality provision you can get for the quantity/price point that we are shooting for? I would think that all interested parties are hoping for middle of the road color correction without the worries of getting an under performing optic. Would it add too much to the cost to require, for instance a 1/5 wave or 1/6 wave minimum?


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Cyclop_si
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 03/13/08

Loc: Slovenia
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: t.r.]
      #5169601 - 04/13/12 01:36 AM

Quote:

... refractor user really wants is a 7" (180mm) doublet, with some punch and ability to go deep-sky close to the level as a 10" reflector. If you build a 180mm f/8-9 doublet......




Make it 180mm f/7, even if color correction is not that perfect, and I am in.


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watcher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/21/07

Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Cyclop_si]
      #5170072 - 04/13/12 10:44 AM

Quote:

Quote:

... refractor user really wants is a 7" (180mm) doublet, with some punch and ability to go deep-sky close to the level as a 10" reflector. If you build a 180mm f/8-9 doublet......




Make it 180mm f/7, even if color correction is not that perfect, and I am in.




I would have preferred that this project was a 140mm doublet to keep with being good to go on a CG5 mount. 6" is, I guess, close enough, and seems to be what more people want. the 180mm scope you want for DSO is already on ISTAR's production plate. They have a 180mm F/7.1 R30 lens listed, should be a killer DSO scope, and I'm sure they would make a scope for you. This project is about something different. Besides, I think that even the cheap FPL-51 equivalent would make for a very expensive scope at 180mm.


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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5170243 - 04/13/12 11:58 AM

Joe

good point.
My comment : when we talking about the poor man apo, then it means we have to accept a compromisse in colorcorrection only.
The mechanics, ptical quality, coating, focuser will not be compromissed, or i will not sell it and not putting my name on the scope.
Chinese makers have prooven to make nice tube mechanics. The baffle system I will design myself to make shure the scope has also imaging power.
As a basic focuser we will use a 2.5" focuser with fine focuse and NOT beeing sloppy. The focuser must be able to hold our flattener and riccardi reducer with camera

Regards the optical quality : you can for shure expect something very very good.

The term Poor man apo will reflect only the colorcorrection, nothing else


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Vondragonnoggin
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/21/10

Loc: Southern CA, USA
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5170252 - 04/13/12 12:03 PM

That's awesome. It appears there really is a lot of interest in such a scope. For awhile, I thought I was the only one. Saving my money......

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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5170258 - 04/13/12 12:04 PM

the todays problem doing a cheap 180 mm doublet is the glas and its rejecting rate. Yes we can buy great 180 mm glas, if you want to keep the rejecting rate low, you have to order top premium glas quality and than it will not be cheap anymore

So lets start with the 6" and get it running , then we talk about other sizes, ok ?

or your all Info : I grap tomorrow morning my wife and my 15 month old baby and go 1 week to vacation, so you will maybe not hear from me till 2. april ( no idea if I have internet at the vacation place)

enjoy the discussion


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Mark9473
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/21/05

Loc: 51N 4E
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5170413 - 04/13/12 01:29 PM

Have a good vacation, Markus. Meanwhile I second the suggestion to go for 140 mm size.

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watcher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/21/07

Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5170985 - 04/13/12 07:01 PM

Thanks for the reassurance, Markus. Wow I really don't believe I'm actually getting this excited about a scope that I really hadn't planned on even wanting. I may not be the first in line, (just in case it goes really well, and a 140mm comes to fruition), but one way or the other it looks like there is a Markus Ludes original APM in my future!

And yes, do enjoy your vacation. You may need to put some work into this project, and we all want you well rested!


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Crow Haven
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/09/09

Loc: Oregon USA
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5171048 - 04/13/12 07:50 PM

Quote:

My comment : when we talking about the poor man apo, then it means we have to accept a compromisse in colorcorrection only.
The mechanics, ptical quality, coating, focuser will not be compromissed, or i will not sell it and not putting my name on the scope.
Regards the optical quality : you can for shure expect something very very good.

The term Poor man apo will reflect only the colorcorrection, nothing else




This sounds terrific! Very exciting!

Have a wonderful vacation, Markus!


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skyjim
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/13/07

Loc: Carmel, NY
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5171529 - 04/14/12 06:41 AM

Markus, you and your family have a nice time! Wow that sounds excellent. I have a feeling who you may be using in china and if I am right I think you will pull this refractor deal off, ahhh the smell of a sweet affordable 6" ED, I can almost picture it .
Jim

Edited by BRisley (04/14/12 05:22 PM)


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WarrenS
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/04/08

Loc: Orange County New York
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: skyjim]
      #5172701 - 04/14/12 08:51 PM

Yes, have a good vacation Markus. And yes, we need to focus on an affordable 6" 2 element ED first. 140mm is too close to the excellent 127 and 120mm s already out there and a 7" too problamatic.

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Vondragonnoggin
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/21/10

Loc: Southern CA, USA
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes [Re: WarrenS]
      #5173471 - 04/15/12 10:46 AM

Have a great vacation! Be sure to surround yourself with protective foam so nothing happens to you on vacation! We need this scope!

I was out observing last night with my MCT 150 at F12 and realized that a 6" F/8 is going to be the perfect compromise for a lot of folks, and I am even happy with a 42mm finder eyepiece in the MCT, so I'll be happy with this one. I also just found out I apparently stopped being stupid about taxes for 20 some years and filed just in time to see that when this scope gets here, I'll have the funds immediately for it!



I am setting aside $4000 for this new scope and the lx80 provided the lx80 comes out and is not riddled with issues, in which case, I think I'll have to go GEM completely, so let's hope it has the big 3" or 2.5" rotatable focuser like the AT or CT scopes or that SV 2.5" rotatable or equivalent.

Any chance of doing a removable section so you can make it BV friendly with a little removal of a section and moving the focuser? I'm going to venture a guess as to a NO on that to keep in price wishes, but would still be cool.


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Daniel Mounsey
Vendor (Woodland Hills)
*****

Reged: 06/12/02

Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5173599 - 04/15/12 12:15 PM

I LOVE doublets!

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