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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
      #5157968 - 04/05/12 04:58 PM

we have in production now a new high end 6"F/8 Riccardi Designed, LZOS Optics made doublet Super ED Apo, 5 samples of optics are ready and arriving with next shipment

Infos you find here http://www.apm-telescopes.net/en/Telescopes-/Refracting-Telescopes-OTA/Apochromates/APM-LZOS-Telescope-Refractor-152-mm-f/1200-mm-2.5-ZTA1.html
and here http://www.apm-telescopes.net/en/Telescopes-/Refracting-Telescopes-OTA/Apochromates/APM-LZOS-Telescope-Refractor-152-mm-f/1200-mm-2-Lens-Super-ED-Apo-3-ZTA.html for the optical tubes.

We are also working for you on a cheaper doublet ED apo which is under discussion right now on the reafractor forum, here we like to give you some more input from our side:

1, the scope in mind will not be such a high end apo as a expensive fluorite doublet or the new Riccardi Super ED doublet.

2, the new scope, if we do it, will be in the range you know from the old Meade doublets. Thats what you want as I understand.

3, The ED glas we will, can, use , we know, there are some choices of partner glases, we will choose the best possible design without going over the price point.
Otherwise such ED makes no sense , becuase to expensive.

4, if we do it, we will offer also the objective as retro kid for your achro tube , all you need will be a new front tube adapter to accept this new objective in cell

5, I know the chinese prices for importers of the triplets and doublets, so I see a very big chance that it is possible what you wish

The chinese have holidays this week, so we will not get the prices this week.

My designer will do some designs with diffrent glases and before we will start a production, we will publish here the spots and LA curves, so you can easy see what you will get and what you can expect.

The 250 pc will not be the problem, because it means only we have to buy 250 sets of glases , not 250 pc complete telescopes at once and if we get the right price and like the design, they will sell like peanut butter and 250 pc should be gone in a few monthes.

So please wait news from me


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meade4ever
sage
*****

Reged: 08/23/07

Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5158883 - 04/06/12 10:13 AM

Hello Markus

What I do find nice, is that a simple whish in a thread from a member, which has shown a lot of comments, is going to be realized.

Good luck with this project.


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zjc26138
Loved By All
*****

Reged: 02/24/05

Loc: Mingo Junction, Ohio
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: meade4ever]
      #5159086 - 04/06/12 12:05 PM

I would definitely be interested in buy one of these lenses when the become avaible.

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skyjim
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/13/07

Loc: Carmel, NY
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5159199 - 04/06/12 01:07 PM

Markus I gotta say, that instead of saying no it cant be done, you are being pro active . I started the tread and dint think it would last 5 replys, now it has grown to many replys, I didnt think that many whould be interested but they were, I also like that fact that this project would be able to turn an old achro into a decent semi apo which many will do I belive. Thank you for taking the time to look into this and I will have to dust off the ole C6R and get it ready for a new lens.
Jim

Edited by skyjim (04/06/12 01:28 PM)


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Crow Haven
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/09/09

Loc: Oregon USA
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: skyjim]
      #5159584 - 04/06/12 05:43 PM

"4, if we do it, we will offer also the objective as retro kid for your achro tube , all you need will be a new front tube adapter to accept this new objective in cell"
____________________________________________________________

This part, in particular, would be of great interest to me as I already have a C6-R with a Moonlite focuser, so I would be very happy with a sharp semi-apo lens set with cell that could be easily installed on the C6-R tube I have.

---Maya


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ThomasM
sage


Reged: 04/19/09

Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5159604 - 04/06/12 06:00 PM

Marcus,
what is the weight of these lenses?

ED Apos are especially interesting if you think about a large, transportable and affordable refractor, e.g. 180 or even 200 in diameter. I would be interested in such lenses, f/8 or even better f/6, small chromatic aberrations are a minor problem - at least for me- since normal seeing does not allow to go much beyond 200x.

best regards

Thomas


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Vondragonnoggin
Post Laureate
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Reged: 02/21/10

Loc: Southern CA, USA
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: ThomasM]
      #5159989 - 04/06/12 11:18 PM

Markus, you are the best for getting this going! Can't wait to see the offerings!

(on a side note - any newer news on that apo BT with 90 degree oculars?)

No pressure. Still patiently waiting.


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Jan Owen
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/12/06

Loc: Sun City West, Arizona
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5159996 - 04/06/12 11:25 PM

Thanks for taking the ball and running with it!!!

You have my attention for sure!!! This is the best news I've heard in some time, and I've been beating the bushes for over a year trying to find someone who's interested in bringing such a scope to the marketplace. THANKS!


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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5160148 - 04/07/12 02:55 AM

Hi Folks


1, ED doublets will be very light weight, so dont worry about the weight

2, we going to show 2 designs, one will be the poor man design and the second one will be a very good one, where the matched glas will be a Lanthanum element

we will discuss both versions , we will show spot diagrams and LA curves and strehl curves and prices of both and telling what is the equal f-ratio of a 6" Achromat, so we have a clear understanding what we offering

then we choose together

more infos coming soon.

At the main thread place , as a vendor I can answere direct questions, but not speak free, its product pushing and against TOS.

So let me discuss with you, here , at the vendor forum what we can offer

wish you all great eastern holidays


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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5160155 - 04/07/12 03:05 AM

I like to add some additional infos:

If the prices coming out as I hope and will allow to run this project, we will open a US based company to which the scopes will be shipped , to keep the cost as much down as possible.
For the quality controle, we have contact to very scilled US Opticians, whose service we can use in case of any problem .

Our secret we will lift only later, we are prepairing many things in the dark underground and we will surprise you this year with many new Items, just wait, till you see our announcement.

We will start working soon on a webside for the US based companys , but announce it only, when we have collected to the webside


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skybsd
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/01/08

Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5160221 - 04/07/12 07:00 AM

Hello Markus,

Quote:

I like to add some additional infos:

If the prices coming out as I hope and will allow to run this project, we will open a US based company to which the scopes will be shipped , to keep the cost as much down as possible.
For the quality controle, we have contact to very scilled US Opticians, whose service we can use in case of any problem .

Our secret we will lift only later, we are prepairing many things in the dark underground and we will surprise you this year with many new Items, just wait, till you see our announcement.

We will start working soon on a webside for the US based companys , but announce it only, when we have collected to the webside




Just so I am clear - is your ability to make this product available for sale dependent on your getting a certain number of buyers beforehand? Or are you able to bring this product to the market, and then see how many you can sell?

Thanks.

Regards,

skybsd


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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: skybsd]
      #5160222 - 04/07/12 07:09 AM

simple answere : if the quoted price is withhin what we discuss here, I will start the project, because it will become a hot seller

happy weekend

Edited by APM M.Ludes (04/07/12 10:42 AM)


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Sol Robbins
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/01/03

Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5160230 - 04/07/12 07:18 AM

Very good Marcus. Please keep us updated...

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skybsd
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/01/08

Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5160242 - 04/07/12 07:26 AM

Quote:

simple answere : if the quted price is withhin what we discuss here, I will start the project, because it will become a hot seller

happy weekend




Thanks for confirming the plan, Markus. Much appreciated..,

Regards,

skybsd


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Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: skybsd]
      #5160380 - 04/07/12 09:16 AM

I am getting very excited!


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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Crow Haven
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/09/09

Loc: Oregon USA
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5160817 - 04/07/12 01:47 PM

Indeed, this is very exciting news! Thank you, Markus!
---Maya


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7331Peg
Sirius Observer
*****

Reged: 09/01/08

Loc: North coast of Oregon
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5160842 - 04/07/12 02:10 PM

Sehr interresant, Markus! I have a C6R that could be a good candidate for a six inch f/8 ED lens.

I'm amazed too at the way Jim's thread has taken off. Obviously, there's a place for something like this.

Vielen Dank!


John


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WarrenS
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/04/08

Loc: Orange County New York
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: 7331Peg]
      #5161963 - 04/08/12 10:53 AM

Can we assume you will be at NEAF again this year Markus? That would obviously be a good place to gauge and generate more interest.

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watcher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/21/07

Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: WarrenS]
      #5162425 - 04/08/12 04:28 PM

I'm already committed to an F/5 ISTAR 6", and planning on a bigger refractor, also from ISTAR, But if this comes to fruition, I will buy one, not only to support the idea of a customer friendly business model, but to replace my beloved Omni 120 achro as a largest portable (for me) refractor. Markus... You ROCK!

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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5162490 - 04/08/12 05:34 PM

You qill find me at NEAF, will walk around and stay at the Lunt Booth

see you for chatting


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hfjacinto
I think he's got it!
*****

Reged: 01/12/09

Loc: Land of clouds and LP
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5163776 - 04/09/12 03:22 PM

Hmm, a 150MM EON like scope????



Markus,

Can it be all black?


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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: hfjacinto]
      #5163833 - 04/09/12 04:12 PM

what do you mean with EON like ? EON use FPL 53 as doublet, we design with chinese FK61 = FPL 51 as doublet , means of course less colorfree

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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5165360 - 04/10/12 02:50 PM

I got the first design today, but not in the way I want to help people to understand diffrences and also the manufactures want to show the best possible, not what we ask, the good and least expensive, so have to make clear again what we want.
Should have soonest a result to show


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Vondragonnoggin
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/21/10

Loc: Southern CA, USA
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5166663 - 04/11/12 10:41 AM

Quote:

I got the first design today, but not in the way I want to help people to understand diffrences and also the manufactures want to show the best possible, not what we ask, the good and least expensive, so have to make clear again what we want.
Should have soonest a result to show





Keeping my eye on this! Not hard to understand people not getting the idea of what you want - just look at the thread that started it. Really hard to get people to understand what was being asked.


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t.r.
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5168177 - 04/12/12 09:55 AM

I applaud your efforts. And, as always the masses want more. What the planetary refractor user really wants is a 7" (180mm) doublet, with some punch and ability to go deep-sky close to the level as a 10" reflector. If you build a 180mm f/8-9 doublet...they will beat your doors down to get it! Or at least I will. Think of it as an improved Meade 178ED with better glass and modern coatings. I'll talk more with you at NEAF...I'm intrigued.

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skyjim
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/13/07

Loc: Carmel, NY
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: t.r.]
      #5168723 - 04/12/12 02:52 PM

Markus "You Da Man" this is all great news and my post in the refractor forum is up to 10 pages and building, I would have never thought this much interest but many minds here think alike, many here want this type of scope, its kinda middle ground for ED refractors and I myself who have always favored the 7" class MCT would replace that scope in a hartbeat with a 6" ED semi apo, I have done side by side comparo's with even the AT152 on many deep sky objects and the frack does better, lunar the mac does better but I am willing to bet the 6" Ed your talking about will be the MCT's equal. Seeya at Neaf.
Jim


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doctordub
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/11/06

Loc: New Rochelle, New York
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: skyjim]
      #5169021 - 04/12/12 05:58 PM

I will be in line for this scope as well. I guess I will be selling a few scopes!

CS
Jonathan


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watcher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/21/07

Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5169519 - 04/13/12 12:11 AM

Quote:

I got the first design today, but not in the way I want to help people to understand diffrences and also the manufactures want to show the best possible, not what we ask, the good and least expensive, so have to make clear again what we want.
Should have soonest a result to show




Markus. Is there any minimum quality provision you can get for the quantity/price point that we are shooting for? I would think that all interested parties are hoping for middle of the road color correction without the worries of getting an under performing optic. Would it add too much to the cost to require, for instance a 1/5 wave or 1/6 wave minimum?


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Cyclop_si
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 03/13/08

Loc: Slovenia
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: t.r.]
      #5169601 - 04/13/12 01:36 AM

Quote:

... refractor user really wants is a 7" (180mm) doublet, with some punch and ability to go deep-sky close to the level as a 10" reflector. If you build a 180mm f/8-9 doublet......




Make it 180mm f/7, even if color correction is not that perfect, and I am in.


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watcher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/21/07

Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Cyclop_si]
      #5170072 - 04/13/12 10:44 AM

Quote:

Quote:

... refractor user really wants is a 7" (180mm) doublet, with some punch and ability to go deep-sky close to the level as a 10" reflector. If you build a 180mm f/8-9 doublet......




Make it 180mm f/7, even if color correction is not that perfect, and I am in.




I would have preferred that this project was a 140mm doublet to keep with being good to go on a CG5 mount. 6" is, I guess, close enough, and seems to be what more people want. the 180mm scope you want for DSO is already on ISTAR's production plate. They have a 180mm F/7.1 R30 lens listed, should be a killer DSO scope, and I'm sure they would make a scope for you. This project is about something different. Besides, I think that even the cheap FPL-51 equivalent would make for a very expensive scope at 180mm.


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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5170243 - 04/13/12 11:58 AM

Joe

good point.
My comment : when we talking about the poor man apo, then it means we have to accept a compromisse in colorcorrection only.
The mechanics, ptical quality, coating, focuser will not be compromissed, or i will not sell it and not putting my name on the scope.
Chinese makers have prooven to make nice tube mechanics. The baffle system I will design myself to make shure the scope has also imaging power.
As a basic focuser we will use a 2.5" focuser with fine focuse and NOT beeing sloppy. The focuser must be able to hold our flattener and riccardi reducer with camera

Regards the optical quality : you can for shure expect something very very good.

The term Poor man apo will reflect only the colorcorrection, nothing else


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Vondragonnoggin
Post Laureate
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Reged: 02/21/10

Loc: Southern CA, USA
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5170252 - 04/13/12 12:03 PM

That's awesome. It appears there really is a lot of interest in such a scope. For awhile, I thought I was the only one. Saving my money......

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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5170258 - 04/13/12 12:04 PM

the todays problem doing a cheap 180 mm doublet is the glas and its rejecting rate. Yes we can buy great 180 mm glas, if you want to keep the rejecting rate low, you have to order top premium glas quality and than it will not be cheap anymore

So lets start with the 6" and get it running , then we talk about other sizes, ok ?

or your all Info : I grap tomorrow morning my wife and my 15 month old baby and go 1 week to vacation, so you will maybe not hear from me till 2. april ( no idea if I have internet at the vacation place)

enjoy the discussion


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Mark9473
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/21/05

Loc: 51N 4E
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5170413 - 04/13/12 01:29 PM

Have a good vacation, Markus. Meanwhile I second the suggestion to go for 140 mm size.

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watcher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/21/07

Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5170985 - 04/13/12 07:01 PM

Thanks for the reassurance, Markus. Wow I really don't believe I'm actually getting this excited about a scope that I really hadn't planned on even wanting. I may not be the first in line, (just in case it goes really well, and a 140mm comes to fruition), but one way or the other it looks like there is a Markus Ludes original APM in my future!

And yes, do enjoy your vacation. You may need to put some work into this project, and we all want you well rested!


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Crow Haven
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/09/09

Loc: Oregon USA
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5171048 - 04/13/12 07:50 PM

Quote:

My comment : when we talking about the poor man apo, then it means we have to accept a compromisse in colorcorrection only.
The mechanics, ptical quality, coating, focuser will not be compromissed, or i will not sell it and not putting my name on the scope.
Regards the optical quality : you can for shure expect something very very good.

The term Poor man apo will reflect only the colorcorrection, nothing else




This sounds terrific! Very exciting!

Have a wonderful vacation, Markus!


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skyjim
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/13/07

Loc: Carmel, NY
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5171529 - 04/14/12 06:41 AM

Markus, you and your family have a nice time! Wow that sounds excellent. I have a feeling who you may be using in china and if I am right I think you will pull this refractor deal off, ahhh the smell of a sweet affordable 6" ED, I can almost picture it .
Jim

Edited by BRisley (04/14/12 05:22 PM)


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WarrenS
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/04/08

Loc: Orange County New York
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: skyjim]
      #5172701 - 04/14/12 08:51 PM

Yes, have a good vacation Markus. And yes, we need to focus on an affordable 6" 2 element ED first. 140mm is too close to the excellent 127 and 120mm s already out there and a 7" too problamatic.

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Vondragonnoggin
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/21/10

Loc: Southern CA, USA
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: WarrenS]
      #5173471 - 04/15/12 10:46 AM

Have a great vacation! Be sure to surround yourself with protective foam so nothing happens to you on vacation! We need this scope!

I was out observing last night with my MCT 150 at F12 and realized that a 6" F/8 is going to be the perfect compromise for a lot of folks, and I am even happy with a 42mm finder eyepiece in the MCT, so I'll be happy with this one. I also just found out I apparently stopped being stupid about taxes for 20 some years and filed just in time to see that when this scope gets here, I'll have the funds immediately for it!



I am setting aside $4000 for this new scope and the lx80 provided the lx80 comes out and is not riddled with issues, in which case, I think I'll have to go GEM completely, so let's hope it has the big 3" or 2.5" rotatable focuser like the AT or CT scopes or that SV 2.5" rotatable or equivalent.

Any chance of doing a removable section so you can make it BV friendly with a little removal of a section and moving the focuser? I'm going to venture a guess as to a NO on that to keep in price wishes, but would still be cool.


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Daniel Mounsey
Vendor (Woodland Hills)
*****

Reged: 06/12/02

Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5173599 - 04/15/12 12:15 PM

I LOVE doublets!

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watcher
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5174196 - 04/15/12 06:50 PM

Quote:

Have a great vacation! Be sure to surround yourself with protective foam so nothing happens to you on vacation! We need this scope!

I was out observing last night with my MCT 150 at F12 and realized that a 6" F/8 is going to be the perfect compromise for a lot of folks, and I am even happy with a 42mm finder eyepiece in the MCT, so I'll be happy with this one. I also just found out I apparently stopped being stupid about taxes for 20 some years and filed just in time to see that when this scope gets here, I'll have the funds immediately for it!



I am setting aside $4000 for this new scope and the lx80 provided the lx80 comes out and is not riddled with issues, in which case, I think I'll have to go GEM completely, so let's hope it has the big 3" or 2.5" rotatable focuser like the AT or CT scopes or that SV 2.5" rotatable or equivalent.

Any chance of doing a removable section so you can make it BV friendly with a little removal of a section and moving the focuser? I'm going to venture a guess as to a NO on that to keep in price wishes, but would still be cool.




Not 100% sure, but I think we found out in an earlier thread, that the Stellarvue focuser is the result of a Chinese ripoff of a Markus Ludes design. I think Markus also mentioned that this scope would have this 2 1/2 in focuser. Sounds like no focuser replacement will be necessary for this scope!


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skyjim
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5174911 - 04/16/12 09:10 AM

Joe, I have that SV focuser on the AT152, its nice, not a FT but not far off, I think the FT would handle a wee bit more pounds off the back at zenith but am please with it so far. This scope sounds like its gonna be really nice and I am already listing my M703 for sale to help pay for this puppy .
I do give up the compactness of the MCT but I will just have to live with that and eat my wheaties!
Jim


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SteveG
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: skyjim]
      #5175274 - 04/16/12 01:30 PM

Put me on the list too! An affordable 6" f8 doublet with quality optics is what I'm looking for.

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watcher
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: skyjim]
      #5175943 - 04/16/12 08:00 PM

Quote:

Joe, I have that SV focuser on the AT152, its nice, not a FT but not far off, I think the FT would handle a wee bit more pounds off the back at zenith but am please with it so far. This scope sounds like its gonna be really nice and I am already listing my M703 for sale to help pay for this puppy .
I do give up the compactness of the MCT but I will just have to live with that and eat my wheaties!
Jim




I'm sure if it's the original that the Chinese producer copied and sold to Stellarvue, that it will be close enough to Feathertouch for my use. I'm still hoping that they will sell out really quick, and open the door for a 140mm size. If it doesn't go that way, I'll make due with the 6, but I really don't like to take any scope out of my yard that needs more than a CG5. Even the C6R is pushing it. An Atlas class mount would be better. A poor man's TEC 140 is more my idea of perfect, but we'll see how it goes!


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5185229 - 04/22/12 06:37 PM

Hello,

I am back from vacation and have had a lot fun with my little daughter at the sand beach :-)

Meanwhile I have some little news

a positive and a not so positive one

Normaly we should start with the bad one first

6"F/8 poor man doublet with chinese glas:

- BAK7 + FK61 , result would be about like a 6"F/20 achromat , pure glas blank cost about US $ 1,650

- LAF53 + FK61, result would be about like a 6"F/30 achromat , pure glas blank cost about US $ 2,050

on top of the glas cost we have the cost for
- polishing
- coating
- cell + assembling and optical testing
- tube
- focuser
- rings
- maybe a case
- shipping from China to USA
- 10% US import duties
- some profit

Non of the both could come out at $ 3,000 retail, the cheaper one could come out below 4,000 $, but thats not a colorcorrection I want

So we will calculate the better acceptable one and see what price really comes out. The better one could may be interested as a upgrate for excisting achromat optical tubes 6"F/8 ???

now the good news :

A 140 mm F/7 or F/8 FPL53 doublet Apo optical tube can be done incl. 2.5" focuser, set of rings, finder shoe, case for around $ 3,500 retail...if we order minimum 300 pc.

I have a personal feeling the 140 mm should be the way to go and at this price point, I believe we can sell more then 300 pc

your comments are welcome


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sky_dave
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5185600 - 04/22/12 11:32 PM

Markus, the 140mm FPL53 doublet, please! Go long, F8 or F9. This is a visual instrument. At F7 the imagers will never stop with the TEC140 comparisons. Let them buy a triplet! At that price range this is an instrument I want.

Dave


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watcher
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5185621 - 04/22/12 11:59 PM

Markus. This is actually music to my ears! As I have said many times, I think that a 140mm F/7 doublet would be comfortable for visual use on a CG-5 As a biggest portable refractor, it would be a great poor man's TEC 140. If this is the way you go, I am a definite buyer. I like long scopes, but I think keeping it on a GG-5 is a real advantage that a longer 140mm or the 6" wouldn't have shared.

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watcher
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: sky_dave]
      #5185629 - 04/23/12 12:10 AM

Quote:

Markus, the 140mm FPL53 doublet, please! Go long, F8 or F9. This is a visual instrument. At F7 the imagers will never stop with the TEC140 comparisons. Let them buy a triplet! At that price range this is an instrument I want.

Dave




Let them make the comparisons. We will have a high quality doublet for visual. Those who want the imaging can always pay $2000.00 more for the TEC. Who knows, this doublet might turn out to be a good imaging scope anyway. At least at the price point.


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Vondragonnoggin
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5185660 - 04/23/12 12:47 AM

Would definitely not be interested at all at F/8, or F/9. Maybe at F/7, but would have liked to see an F/6 or F/7, 6" doublet that performed like an F/12 or F/15 achro. I guess I am in the major minority. Particularly the F/6. Short and stubby, but performs like a behemoth F/12 or 15. Fast enough to get wide, but still could use a semi-apo filter and give decent planetary.

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Traveler
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5185715 - 04/23/12 01:37 AM

Markus, about the 140mm f7-8: what will be the European price?

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Cyclop_si
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5185732 - 04/23/12 01:47 AM

Quote:

Would definitely not be interested at all at F/8, or F/9. Maybe at F/7, but would have liked to see an F/6 or F/7, 6" doublet that performed like an F/12 or F/15 achro. I guess I am in the major minority. Particularly the F/6. Short and stubby, but performs like a behemoth F/12 or 15. Fast enough to get wide, but still could use a semi-apo filter and give decent planetary.




I am also with you. Or even better, something slightly larger, like 160+mm f/7 ...

However I think this whole think should be spitted into two project, 140mm visual doublet and 160+mm visual doublet. It is logical to go with 140mm version first, since market for this version is larger.


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HCR32
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Cyclop_si]
      #5185899 - 04/23/12 07:26 AM

The obvious choice would be to run with the 140s which would inturn allow for a 160s market with a smaller amount of risk.

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watcher
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5186168 - 04/23/12 11:15 AM

Quote:

Would definitely not be interested at all at F/8, or F/9. Maybe at F/7, but would have liked to see an F/6 or F/7, 6" doublet that performed like an F/12 or F/15 achro. I guess I am in the major minority. Particularly the F/6. Short and stubby, but performs like a behemoth F/12 or 15. Fast enough to get wide, but still could use a semi-apo filter and give decent planetary.




Eric.

I think your best bet in the current market is the scope that I'm getting from ISTAR. At F/5 it will give wide fields to die for. It will perform like an F/6.75, and should be "not all that bad" if you point it at a planet with a semi APO filter. Not quite the all around performer that this 140 would be, but something that does a little better than the low power Milky Way sweeper.They're making a few right now for delivery in about 4 weeks. I'll be reporting on it's performance ASAP when I get mine if you want to wait for the next batch.


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Vondragonnoggin
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5186204 - 04/23/12 11:32 AM

I looked at those. An F/5 performing like an F/6.75 is good, but not quite like performance of an F/6 with color or reaction of an F/15 or F/12. Will definitely be reading your review of it. Mounting requirements just start getting too much at F/8 or F/9. If I can find a 6" that performs well at less than 27lbs for the OTA, I think I can be OK with quite a few mounts that are reasonably priced or my current mount. Really would be looking for something like the R60 lens in an F/5, but sure is a long wait.....

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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5186263 - 04/23/12 12:08 PM

Hi Everybody

today things change again :-)

The Glas prices I posted yesterday have been the guess of my optical designer using catalouge prices. Today I got the manufactur estimation of the expensive 6"F/8 doublet and it looks like we c an do that too , estimated price for the expensive 6"F/8 doublet between 3500 and 3900 $

so whats now ???? 140 mm F/7 ? F/8 ? or a 6"F/8 ? or both ?

The european price will be about equal in Euro as it is in USA in US $ thanks to customs and our crazy 19% VAT, so US Price 3,500 $ means European price Euro 3,500 incl. VAT

now we have to many choices

we run a vote or we think about 140 and 152 ?


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Crow Haven
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5186407 - 04/23/12 01:13 PM

I'd still go for the expensive 6" f/8 lens upgrade preferably. If it isn't created I might consider the 140 f/8 scope.

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Mark9473
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #5186526 - 04/23/12 02:33 PM

My vote's for the 140 f/7. Do you think we could see spot diagrams for the f/7 and f/8?

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watcher
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5186555 - 04/23/12 02:52 PM

Quote:

Hi Everybody

today things change again :-)

The Glas prices I posted yesterday have been the guess of my optical designer using catalouge prices. Today I got the manufactur estimation of the expensive 6"F/8 doublet and it looks like we c an do that too , estimated price for the expensive 6"F/8 doublet between 3500 and 3900 $

so whats now ???? 140 mm F/7 ? F/8 ? or a 6"F/8 ? or both ?

The european price will be about equal in Euro as it is in USA in US $ thanks to customs and our crazy 19% VAT, so US Price 3,500 $ means European price Euro 3,500 incl. VAT

now we have to many choices

we run a vote or we think about 140 and 152 ?




JMO, but I think if you can take on two projects, your best and quickest return on investment would be with a complete OTA F/7 140mm, and a replacement 6" lens for all the Syntas out there. Make a lot of people happy that way, and if you sell out the production quick, you can always produce the 6" complete OTA. Anywhere between 3500 and 3900 is still a decent price for a 6" semi-Apo.


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HCR32
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5186565 - 04/23/12 02:58 PM

MY vote goes to what ever is going to be visually a better performer!!!!

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Cyclop_si
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: HCR32]
      #5186586 - 04/23/12 03:12 PM

My vote go to largest one, which can be mounted on Atlas class mount. Therefore if I have to decide between 140 and 152, 152 is my vote, specially since price for both are similar, and visually I can tolerate some more CA on larger option ...

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watcher
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: HCR32]
      #5186591 - 04/23/12 03:17 PM

Quote:

MY vote goes to what ever is going to be visually a better performer!!!!




A longer scope will almost always be the better performer, but I do believe that an F/7 140mm FPL-53 doublet designed by Markus Ludes will be plenty good enough for pretty much the entire group of people that these threads about big semi-Apos have attracted. It's pretty much a different audience than the "performance at any cost" group that buy the APM LZOS triplets. This is a bold new frontier!


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WilRobinson
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5186612 - 04/23/12 03:35 PM

I've been asking for a 6in. doublet for the last 3 years, 140mm is to close to all the 127-130mm scopes out there right now. Just my opinion.

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Sol Robbins
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Cyclop_si]
      #5186631 - 04/23/12 03:48 PM

I think the views between a 150mm and a 140mm to be very, very close.

I would be interested in seeing your proposed 140mm lens in a cell that can simply be put on a Celestron/Skywatcher tube assembly for owners of existing 150mm f/8 achromat refractors.

Best,


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hfjacinto
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5186657 - 04/23/12 04:03 PM

Quote:

what do you mean with EON like ? EON use FPL 53 as doublet, we design with chinese FK61 = FPL 51 as doublet , means of course less colorfree




Ok, I like the 140MM EON like scope


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watcher
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: WilRobinson]
      #5186677 - 04/23/12 04:16 PM

Quote:

I've been asking for a 6in. doublet for the last 3 years, 140mm is to close to all the 127-130mm scopes out there right now. Just my opinion.




If there were a 130mm doublet on the market, I probably would have already settled for that. I understand the desire for a 6" doublet. I truly believe there is a need to max out the CG-5 though. Even an Atlas class mount is double the cost of a CG-5. I think even though Celestron puts their 6" F/8 on the CG-5, many have had to upgrade to be happy. And Atlas class mounts aren't as easy to tote around. That's why I say start with the 140 F/7 and the replacement lens for Syntas. The 140 cause anybody can use it, and the replacements because most people with a C6-R already have the mount they need for a 6" doublet. I just think if it's done in that order, everyone will be happy sooner.


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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5186746 - 04/23/12 05:04 PM

1, before we start we will publish spot diagrams, longitudinal aberration and strehl curve.

2, personaly I ote for the 140/7 FPL 53 in any case and the 152/8 too, becasue there is a big market for the 152 for those who want to replace here achromat and by a simple tube adapter this is a very easy tak for anybody.

3, we will match both to our Riccardi Apo Reducer/Flattener 0.75 x for the imagers of you, too


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Radim
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5186815 - 04/23/12 05:58 PM

Quote:

2, personaly I ote for the 140/7 FPL 53 in any case and the 152/8 too, becasue there is a big market for the 152 for those who want to replace here achromat and by a simple tube adapter this is a very easy tak for anybody.





Markus, but 152 F/8 doublet ...dont get me wrong - you are already offering 6inch doublet on your website as LZOS 2 elements NOW so why to offer another doublet with similar diameter?


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Bill Barlow
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5186818 - 04/23/12 06:03 PM

Hi Markus,

Would there be a big difference in the weight between the 140 f/7 and 140 f/8 OTA's? How much might the 152 f/8 weigh?

Bill


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WarrenS
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5186996 - 04/23/12 07:56 PM

Hi Markus, welcome back and thanks for the good news! Question however, your projected 6" price, is that for a complete OTA or just the objective in a cell that's been discussed?

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saemark30
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: WarrenS]
      #5187495 - 04/24/12 03:31 AM

I would be interested in both.
What glass would mate with the 140mm FPL 53?
Would this be better than the Synta 120ED doublet?
Or would this be more like Takahashi FS152?


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tomharri
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: saemark30]
      #5187687 - 04/24/12 09:14 AM

Dear Markus of APM

I'm old, weak and broken (you will be too). I can't handle a 6" meade f/9 ed at 30+ lbs (15 kilos).
Make the 140mm f/8 lightweight. Use thin wall tubing-no tube threads. Bolt your collimatable flange on with 3 screws+locknuts. No baffles. Use removable flocking inside. No finder shoes, we will drill, install our own. Extra threaded holes in focuser for shoe. Lightweight, long travel focuser to satisfy everyone for 1.25" or 2" diagonals, binocs etc. Optional $$$ focusers. Fixed-removable dewshield like meade's. For transport dewshield should mount on focuser flange to protect focuser from damage. No case or optional. I'm gonna use the scope not store it. Thin rolled metal rings like Istar uses.
GOAL 12 Kilos=26.4 lbs. MAXIMUM.
Send email when ready, thank you.

Edited by tomharri (04/24/12 09:30 AM)


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skyjim
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5187851 - 04/24/12 10:48 AM

Hi Markus, thats great news and I think you got the ticket, build a 140/F7 scope which there is already a market for like the folks out here that want a TEC140 but just cant breakl that over $5k price range to afford it, hey in old retail term thats a shoe-in at around $3500 usd. Now there are a vast amount of Synta C6R/CR150/skywatcher 150 F8 scope out there and I would bet my bottom dollar that more than 25% of maybe 1000 of these scope out there would upgrade there lens in a hartbeat and that is being very conservative IMO. You make the lens and a simple adapter or have the lens cell designe with the idea of mounting directly to the flange on these scopes providing they have a collimatable cell and there done.
Markus I want to thank you for reading my post in the refractor forum and you stepted up to the plate with the bat and is taking a big swing instead of being like some out there which said it cant be done, instead you had taken some very excellent ideas that were generated in that post and are going to run with it, I like that . I hope we can talk at Neaf this weekend if you are there.
Jim


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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: skyjim]
      #5187947 - 04/24/12 11:54 AM

many questions > some answeres

1, the show prices is for OTA with focuser , rings, finderbracket, case , lenses in cell we did not asked yet , but will be less of course

2, why make a cheap 6" doublet , while we coming with a expensive model right now ?
- the expensive model has better colorcorrection and better optical quality attest by a interferometrical testreport
- the expensive model ( APM/LZOS) use custommade tubes where we can fullfill any of your wish regards color, backfocuse, focuser etc.

- weight : the 6" doublet OTA should be around 20 to 22 pound, the 140 around 15 pound

we design the optics, the cell and the tubes and then subcontract everything to be made to our designs

see you this weekend at NEAF ...will have again german gummibears with me :-)


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Vondragonnoggin
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5188148 - 04/24/12 01:59 PM

140mm F/7 at 15lbs sounds really really good.

I particularly like that you are going to make it compatible with the reducer.

I'm interested again despite not being a true 150mm.

Sounds like it will be very competitive.


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5189890 - 04/25/12 01:44 PM

Quote:

A 140 mm F/7 or F/8 FPL53 doublet Apo optical tube can be done incl. 2.5" focuser, set of rings, finder shoe, case for around $ 3,500 retail...if we order minimum 300 pc.

I have a personal feeling the 140 mm should be the way to go and at this price point, I believe we can sell more then 300 pc





A little while ago I was considering an FS152 that was coming available. However, with this size-class scope I would also have to acquire a suitable mount as well. So resulting cost for OTA and mount would have been $7,000 or so!

Now with a proposed 140mm that can be kept to around 15 pounds, I would need no second mount as my existing mount can handle. So $3500 USD for the OTA is a real deal !! This sounds like a very doable proposition for me...I can swing that much cash but not what I would need to raise for a 6" that requires the purchase (for me) of an additional mount.

Personally, having done some extensive testing comparing a 140 vs a 152 for DSO, I found the difference of course seeable but not of enough consequence to matter much. Pragmatically, the 140mm concept sounds like a big winner and would be nice to have an alternative out there to TEC for some more competition (plus I would prefer air spaced).

140mm f/7 or f/8


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jrbarnett
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5190087 - 04/25/12 03:24 PM

Markus, this is very impressive. Neil English and I have discussed a "volkscope" concept (yeah, I know it was used on Newts in the 70s - so sue me) along these lines. Large FK-61 doublets with "good enough" figure and decent mechanical construction for a low price. I applaud your entrepreneurial effort and wish you great success!

- Jim


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dscarpa
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5190144 - 04/25/12 03:55 PM

At that weight even after adding rings, finders and such I could use the 140 on my Giro with one counterweight. That would make one killer grab and go! David

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Jan Owen
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5190827 - 04/25/12 11:20 PM

I was quite interested in this project right up until it took a turn toward a 140 mm aperture.

I am interested in a 6" aperture ED scope with a focal ratio around f/9, to allow a little extra focal length for better correction...

I am not interested in losing virtually half an inch of aperture to settle on a 140. If I'd wanted a 140, I'd already have bought a TEC 140...

So if this continues to drift off course from it's original direction, toward a 140 instead, you can count me out.


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watcher
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5190843 - 04/25/12 11:31 PM

Quote:

I was quite interested in this project right up until it took a turn toward a 140 mm aperture.

I am interested in a 6" aperture ED scope with a focal ratio around f/9, to allow a little extra focal length for better correction...

I am not interested in losing virtually half an inch of aperture to settle on a 140. If I'd wanted a 140, I'd already have bought a TEC 140...

So if this continues to drift off course from it's original direction, toward a 140 instead, you can count me out.




Jan. Are you actually looking to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory? WE ARE GETTING BOTH! It may be F/8 because of the thousands of potential C6R upgrades, but geez if you need a CUSTOM built scope I don't think ya got a right to gripe.


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jrbarnett
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5190874 - 04/25/12 11:48 PM

I dunno, Jan. The TEC 140 is a $5600 front heavy triplet. Sure, it's oil spaced and cools quickly - for a triplet, but not as quickly as a 140mm doublet, which would also be much easier to balance and to mount and much cheaper. I think the 140 doublet conceptually is a lot like the Eon 120, only on 'roids. Markus should sell a bunch of them IMO.

Regards,

Jim


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Jan Owen
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5190885 - 04/25/12 11:53 PM

You were rude on the other thread, and I let that pass.

Markus can do whatever he wishes. If he makes a 6" f/8 OTA I might bite. I'm not in the market for an objective. I tossed in the longer focal length to allow more latitude for correction, not as an ultimatum.

I'm fine with whatever Markus decides to do, and both would be fine with me, though I'd only have interest in the OTA.

But I'm not interested in someone else telling me what I should want, if it's different than what they want.


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jrbarnett
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: BillP]
      #5190891 - 04/25/12 11:57 PM

You nailed it Bill. $3500 is triplet 130mm APO territory. For a visual observer, an FPL-53 doublet that trades a little color correction for extra light grasp, resolution, and quicker cooling is a better deal. Not so much for imagers, I think (who would likely trade 10mm for improved color correction), but for folks gathering photons with their eyes, it should be sublime. I'd prefer f/8 to f/7 though.

- Jim


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watcher
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5191219 - 04/26/12 08:35 AM

Quote:

You were rude on the other thread, and I let that pass.

Markus can do whatever he wishes. If he makes a 6" f/8 OTA I might bite. I'm not in the market for an objective. I tossed in the longer focal length to allow more latitude for correction, not as an ultimatum.

I'm fine with whatever Markus decides to do, and both would be fine with me, though I'd only have interest in the OTA.

But I'm not interested in someone else telling me what I should want, if it's different than what they want.




Sorry you thought I was being rude by simply stating what this thread was talking about.( F/8 ota) That certainly wasn't my intention, and I really thought that, by your reaction, that you just hadn't read this entire thread. If it must be an F/9 ota to keep you happy, then that's fine by me too.

Again Jan, I sincerely apologize if I gave the impression of being rude.


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Jan Owen
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5191390 - 04/26/12 10:21 AM

I agree with everything you said (though I've seen you argue oppositely, that a doublet wouldn't necessarily be cheaper, when I asserted that then, as now), EXCEPT that I've been trying to get someone interested in making a 6" ED doublet for quite some time now. The TEC 140 has been around all this time. I like that scope, but it isn't what I'm interested in here. I'm not really interested in a 5 1/2" scope. If I were, I'd already have bought the TEC.

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Mark9473
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5191397 - 04/26/12 10:26 AM

Perhaps I'm missing something... APM is going to make a 140 and a 6" - why keep going on about not wanting a 140?

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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Mark9473]
      #5191412 - 04/26/12 10:39 AM

so , here have now the design info for the Doublet 152 mm F/8, using Chinese FK61 ( like FPL 51) plus Lanthanium Glas







Its performance in colorcorrection is about equal to a 6"F/30 achromat and it should be called Semi-Apo , like many other ED doublets , so we wil do the same as others and call it ED-Apo :-)

The sensivie ED Eelement we placed on the rear inner side for good protection.
The RC Index is 2.6

Now we setting the tolerances for the glas and cell and start to design the tube mechanics

Tomorrow I go to NEAF, see some of you there


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Jan Owen
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Mark9473]
      #5191506 - 04/26/12 11:33 AM

Because that's the thread subject...

I laud Markus for taking on this project, and I'm certain any scope bearing his brand would be a scope worth owning.

However, this was a thread about 6" scopes, before it drifted into 5 1/2" ones, so I've just tried to remain true to the original thread's stated direction, which also coincides with my interests, where a 140 doesn't.

That's not to say anything negative about a 140. The TEC is a great scope, and I'm sure an APM would be, too, based on the superb overall quality of previous scopes from Markus...

But in a 6" discussion, a different aperture is at least slightly off-topic, even if the smaller aperture scope itself may be superb. Personally, I don't mind diverging from topic, when it's valid to consider alternatives. But I don't think it's either helpful to try and tell others how they should think, or try to bend others to one's own point of view. Just put the facts all out there, and let folks decide for themselves...

Same thing goes for Markus. This is a great venue for folks to let it be known what their interests are, and gives him information so he can make good judgments about what might become popular products, if added to his line.

This seems like a good use for this forum; rather than trying to influence others to one's own point of view.


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Mark9473
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5191586 - 04/26/12 12:15 PM

Take a deep breath and read slowly: A P M w i l l m a k e b o t h s c o p e s ! !

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Jan Owen
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Mark9473]
      #5191630 - 04/26/12 12:45 PM

I think we're all interpreting what Markus is saying.

What he seems to be saying, in the last few posts, is that he's proceeding with feasibility data for the various options, but is leaning toward building a 140 OTA, and a 6" f/8 objective in cell that can be adapted to the Celestron/Skywatcher tube assembly.

It looks like he will proceed with the process as originally outlined, providing prices for the 140 OTA, the retrofittable 6" in cell, and a 6" f/8 OTA. But he *seems* (my interpretation, and repeating from the paragraph above) to favor producing a 140 OTA and a 6" f/8 in cell for retro-fitting to existing tube assemblies, since a cheaper 6" f/8 might jeopardize sales of a more expensive 6" scope he's already coming out with. Easy to understand any hesitation on his part, in that respect.

But, again, that's my interpretation; not necessarily what he may actually have in mind. I'm sure, in due time, once Markus has had a chance to evaluate his options, the needs/interests of his customers as stated here in this forum, he'll come to a conclusion based on our input, and his needs to be able to make a profit from production of whichever selection our concensus makes the best fit for APM (profitable sales) & it's customers (happy campers with new scopes to suit their needs/wishes).


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Mark9473
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5191637 - 04/26/12 12:49 PM

There is no practical differene Jan. APM will be importing the objectives in their cell from the Far East and will build the OTA around it in Germany. They do this all the time. I have no doubt whatsoever that APM will build an OTA around a 6" f/8 lens if you ask them. Send an e-mail to Markus.

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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Mark9473]
      #5191900 - 04/26/12 03:22 PM

Hi All,

looks to me like some confusion came up, so let me clarify it again.

On first look from my designer it looked like the glas for the 6" would be to expensive, but then the manufactur offered his rough price and I saw we are again withhin the required retail price range

so status of today is

- we going to offer a 140 mm F/7 doublet OTA with FPL 53
- we going to offer a 152 mm F/8 doublet OTA with FK61
- we going to offer the 152mm F/8 lens in cell with adapter for excisting 6" achomat tubes

both models are attractive , so we go with both


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Mark9473
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5191912 - 04/26/12 03:28 PM

Thanks for confirming what I thought were your intentions, Markus.
These are some of the most exciting product announcements I have seen in years!


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GShaffer
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Mark9473]
      #5191944 - 04/26/12 03:49 PM

I will be in for the lens/cell to fit my AR6 for sure

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Jan Owen
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Mark9473]
      #5191960 - 04/26/12 04:01 PM

Agreed!!!

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AlienRatDog
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5192087 - 04/26/12 05:14 PM

Does it make me a geek because a tear ran down my face reading that both a 140 and 152mm scopes are being made?

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Jan Owen
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: AlienRatDog]
      #5192232 - 04/26/12 06:29 PM

Actually, if Markus is able to pull this all off, he's going to make a BUNCH of folks VERY happy!!! I'll be one, too!!!

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watcher
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5192398 - 04/26/12 07:53 PM

Quote:

Actually, if Markus is able to pull this all off, he's going to make a BUNCH of folks VERY happy!!! I'll be one, too!!!




Like I said.


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SeattleScott
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5192755 - 04/27/12 12:48 AM

How many of us have nice 4" refractors for their portability and fast cool down times for grab and go stargazing? I have been looking at the EON 120 as an upgrade for my 100ED but despite the nice features, I would like to double the light grasp if I am going to upgrade. A 140mm accomplishes that. And I want to mount it on my CG5. Not saying I wouldn't consider the 6" if it can be mounted on a CG5 though. My 100ED is color-free except for the lunar limb and I am pretty happy with that. I can live with a touch of false color if it saves me thousands of dollars and allows me to use my portable CG5 mount.

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skyjim
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5193069 - 04/27/12 09:28 AM

Thank Markus for doing allot of ground work, I would have like to meet up with you at Neaf this weekend but a death in my family has canceled the plans for this weekends trip. I would like to know what are the plans on the 6" F8 doublet in the cell to retorfit to the celestron/skywatcher tubes might be as a projected cost to the end user. I think that would be the way I would go, have a good time at Neaf.
Jim


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BillP
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5193167 - 04/27/12 10:44 AM

Quote:

Hi All,

looks to me like some confusion came up, so let me clarify it again.

On first look from my designer it looked like the glas for the 6" would be to expensive, but then the manufactur offered his rough price and I saw we are again withhin the required retail price range

so status of today is

- we going to offer a 140 mm F/7 doublet OTA with FPL 53
- we going to offer a 152 mm F/8 doublet OTA with FK61
- we going to offer the 152mm F/8 lens in cell with adapter for excisting 6" achomat tubes

both models are attractive , so we go with both




Now...if you could only bring them with you to NEAF Glad you are tackling the 140...think you will get a lot of traction out of that one, as well as with the 6" cell.


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Crow Haven
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5193518 - 04/27/12 02:33 PM

Wonderful! I'll be looking forward to your 6" f/8 lens/adapter upgrade package! Thanks so much, Markus!

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Refractor6
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #5193844 - 04/27/12 06:32 PM

Wow... I might bring my old Skywatcher 6" f/8 out of storage for the cell upgrade...that's if it can be had in Canada

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John Huntley
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Refractor6]
      #5195495 - 04/28/12 08:08 PM

This all sounds very exciting for refractor fans !

I'm about to take delivery of a Skywatcher 150 F/8 fitted with a matched Chromacor II, supplied originally by Markus I believe in 2002.

Is it likely that the 6" F/8 objective upgrade package discussed here would be a better performer than the standard objective / Chromacor II combination, assuming that the latter has been properly matched and installed ?.

Edited by John Huntley (04/28/12 08:09 PM)


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Jeff B
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: John Huntley]
      #5197397 - 04/29/12 10:37 PM

Quote:

This all sounds very exciting for refractor fans !

I'm about to take delivery of a Skywatcher 150 F/8 fitted with a matched Chromacor II, supplied originally by Markus I believe in 2002.

Is it likely that the 6" F/8 objective upgrade package discussed here would be a better performer than the standard objective / Chromacor II combination, assuming that the latter has been properly matched and installed ?.




If properly set up (which includes best spherical match, alignment of all elements and proper spacing) and the optics are good, the achromat with the Chromacor should be better corrected on-axis for both CA and spherochromatism than the new doublets. However, not very far off axis, there is considerable lateral color. The doublet will be much better corrected in that regard.

An interesting choice, but my gut tells me the new doublet would be a much better choice for me as a little bit of CA (mostly in the deep blue)and great off-axis performance is a better trade than basically no CA but poor off-axis performance....and I've got four Chromacors.

Markus, thanks for this option.

Jeff


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watcher
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5199046 - 04/30/12 08:47 PM

Hope you enjoyed yourself at NEAF Markus. Now that things are pretty much settled for these projects, can you give us any kind of a rough timeline as to when the first scopes might be rolling out? Gotta figure out how fast I have to save. I wouldn't want to be caught flat footed when the #0001 140mm is ready! Can I call dibs?

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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5200225 - 05/01/12 02:03 PM

Hi Guys

I am back from NEAF since yesterday, have had some very nice views there outside on the solar field with the new Lunt LS 230, 9" Solar-H-alpha Telescope, a super large prominence showed up when we brought it out.

I spoke with 4 of the largest vendors in USA and vendors of other countrys regards our new doublets and they are all like that idea very much and promissed to enter them to here line.
This week will not happen much, since we have to prepair ourself for our own German large telescope Show ATT this coming weekend.
Next week we start to design the lens cell and the tubes, we will make all mashine drawings, talk to the lens maker about tolerances of glas and cell etc....

During May 2012, we have everyhting ready designed and will have drawings how the scope looks like with all details and prices.

Then we start the production


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Alvan Clark
sage


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5200262 - 05/01/12 02:26 PM

Quote:


I spoke with 4 of the largest vendors in USA and vendors of other countrys regards our new doublets and they are all like that idea very much and promissed to enter them to here line.




They must want a profit too. The 140mm with FPL 53 for $3500 is beginning to look like the better deal if you can hold that price. I have the feeling the 6 inch is going to end up at $4500 or more by the time this is finished. Still cheaper than other scopes but a little higher than some here were expecting.

Besides the 15 or so people here have you got feedback elsewhere indicating there is a big market for these scopes?


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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Alvan Clark]
      #5200287 - 05/01/12 02:40 PM

Hi Alvan

dont worry about prices. I am thinking from step one as a manufacturer and vendor and when we introuce a new project in volume in the market, we always have to include a vendor margin and that was already done on the initial price guess

the retail will stay below $ 4,000 for the 6", it will not change against my others promisses

Of course we could offer it somewhat less expensive , if only we would sell it worldwide, but most of you , customers around the world like to buy from local trusted vendors, thats why vendors selling telescopes :-)


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skyjim
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5201688 - 05/02/12 11:54 AM

Markus I was not able to attend neaf this weekend, my dear brotherinlaw passed away this weekend and was not even into driving up to neaf. I am very interested in the lens cell upgrade of the 6" F8 ED, looking forward to your progres in these projects.
Jim


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watcher
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5209065 - 05/06/12 04:18 PM

Hi Markus. Hope you had another enjoyable show.

With regards to the 6" F/8 model. There are several recent references in the refractor forum about 1980's AP 6" F/8 scopes. Though they had less than perfect color correction, they are highly coveted visual instruments. Just wondering if you could draw any comparison between these vintage triplets and your doublets as far as color correction goes. If we knew, for instance, that the color correction was equal to, less than, or better than the old triplets, we would all have another source of reference for what would be seen at the eyepiece. Just wondering. To me a 6" f/30 achro is pure APO, but some are at least a little pickier than me.


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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5209118 - 05/06/12 04:57 PM

As a vendor , even here at the vendor forum it is not allowed to me, to speak or compare my products to any other product.
If I answere your question, the moderators have to ban me from CN by TOS, so excuse me that I do not answere your question, sorry


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watcher
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5209255 - 05/06/12 06:50 PM

Sorry Markus. I didn't realize it was that fine a line you had to walk.

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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5210660 - 05/07/12 05:28 PM

now you know why I sometimes disappear here , when I cross the fine line. Its very difficult for me with foreigner language to be alwas accurate with my used words.

anyway thats TOS


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Chris_H
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5210933 - 05/07/12 08:11 PM

So where do I sign up for the 6" and what do I do with the cash in my hand?

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Chris_H]
      #5212196 - 05/08/12 02:35 PM Attachment (87 downloads)

Hi

1, drop me a e-mail to anfrage@apm-telescopes.de

2, hold your cash under your pillow, till you get a ring e-mail to send it :-)

see here first picture of the scope 6"F/8


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zjc26138
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5212431 - 05/08/12 04:52 PM

Looks great!

I'm trying to decide if I want to buy the 6in f/8 ota, or just the lens and find an old CR6 for the tube.


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5212482 - 05/08/12 05:19 PM

I want bigger rings

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Chris_H]
      #5212535 - 05/08/12 05:46 PM

why bigger Rings ? Whats sense making bigger rings ?

we try to make the scope as light weight as possible

Non to me, but tell me


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5212635 - 05/08/12 06:45 PM

Just messing Markus, they just looked skinny in the pic Talking about weight, any rough estimate?

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watcher
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5212750 - 05/08/12 08:07 PM

Very nicely proportioned Markus.I like the length of the dew shield. I did start another thread in the refractor forum where I came to the conclusion that the color correction should be about equal to the old AP 6" F/8 triplets maybe even a tad better!

I can't wait to see your drawing of the 140mm!


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5212814 - 05/08/12 08:53 PM

Question Markus, is the dewshield sliding or reversible?

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: WarrenS]
      #5213152 - 05/09/12 02:01 AM

the dew shield is sliding !

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5213209 - 05/09/12 05:26 AM Attachment (83 downloads)

here a tube sheme drawing for the 152 mm F/1200 mm

Markus


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Astrojensen
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5213219 - 05/09/12 05:34 AM

Wow, the design looks great! How much back focus do you plan for? 180mm seems to be a sort of standard these days and is enough for me.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5213312 - 05/09/12 08:22 AM

What is the O.D. of the tube, Markus?

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5213473 - 05/09/12 10:26 AM

180 mm Backfocuse was choosen, yes

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5213474 - 05/09/12 10:27 AM

this technical details, tube diameter, weight etc follow as next , please wait

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Radim
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5214075 - 05/09/12 03:52 PM

Sorry guys, I am really not getting this ....Markus now has currently on stock doublet 6inch from LZOS 2elements, I guess it is a top notch quality from LZOS for a price of below 6k EUR, why you want to run for a similar design, similar parameters but lower color correction... just for 2k EUR difference? I understand a need for a doublet, but it is already here...so why to accept lower standarts? Is the price really such a driver for not taking LZOS?

Sorry do not want to start a flame ..
R.

Edited by Radim (05/09/12 04:19 PM)


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Radim]
      #5214097 - 05/09/12 04:04 PM

"Is the price really such a driver for not taking LZOS?"
Yes.


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5214194 - 05/09/12 05:22 PM

>>The 140mm with FPL 53 for $3500

Is this in US currency?


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: saemark30]
      #5214224 - 05/09/12 05:48 PM

The 140 F/7 FPL 53 will not comes as FPL, it turned out that even at 200 pc the FPL53 with mating glas is to expensive, so we will switsch it to the same design as the 152F/8 then the price will be hold or more close to $ 3,000, but right now we finishing first the 152 design, then we move to the 140 model

However we plan to release a 160 mm F/7.5 doublet in a price range between 5000 and 5500 $ retail. Here the cost are known by today


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5214785 - 05/10/12 12:48 AM

Quote:

...However we plan to release a 160 mm F/7.5 doublet in a price range between 5000 and 5500 $ retail. Here the cost are known by today



Great news!


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Cyclop_si]
      #5215067 - 05/10/12 09:04 AM

about the 152 mm doublet

weight optical tube without focuser : 6.9 kg = 15.2 lbs , so with focuser it should be around 17 lbs
tube diameter : 156 mm = 6.14 inch
dew shield diameter : 186 mm = 7.32 inch


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SteveG
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5216026 - 05/10/12 06:06 PM

Nice - sounding good Markus! The only comment I have is a prefer a nice tapered barrel where the tube meets the focuser. It just looks a little nicer than the ones that utilize a "flat" flange. Yours shows a little bit of an angle already. I'm saving for the 6"!

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5216196 - 05/10/12 08:16 PM

Quote:

The 140 F/7 FPL 53 will not comes as FPL, it turned out that even at 200 pc the FPL53 with mating glas is to expensive, so we will switsch it to the same design as the 152F/8 then the price will be hold or more close to $ 3,000




Even better! Still F/7 I hope?


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5216353 - 05/10/12 10:48 PM

I like the weight specs, if I do get this scope it'll be mounted on my Atlas. As I plan to swap the 6" with my 127EDT for AP, the weight plus guider and DSLR should be close to the same.

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: WarrenS]
      #5216368 - 05/10/12 11:08 PM

Though I have been reading through this thread, did I miss how much the projected price would be for the 6" lens retrofit on a Synta tube?

Best,


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Sol Robbins]
      #5216583 - 05/11/12 05:26 AM

Sol

the lens in cell price follows soon


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5216586 - 05/11/12 05:28 AM

Hi Joe

regards the 140 mm F/7 , please ask around whats acceptable

Using on the 140 F/7 the same glas combination then on the 152 F/8, the correction of the 140/7 is visible worse.

If we go to 140 F/7.5 we are similar then the 152F/8

if we go slower like F/8 or F/9 its get better and better

so we recomment minimum F/7.5

can you ask around so I get many feedbacks whats acceptable ?

thanks


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meade4ever
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5216650 - 05/11/12 07:43 AM

For me, the best choice would be a 150mm/f10 because it is still manageable and should provide better views being slower and with less CA.

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5216706 - 05/11/12 08:35 AM

My only concern with a scope of 140mm is keeping the moment arm low enough to mount the scope easily on a CG-5 class mount. I think 7.5 would just about make it feasible, otherwise we might as well go with the 6" F/8 if the 140 will need more mount to be comfortable with.

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Alvan Clark
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5216813 - 05/11/12 10:04 AM

Quote:


so we recomment minimum F/7.5

can you ask around so I get many feedbacks whats acceptable ?





Doesn't this website have a "poll" feature? Someone could put up a survey but everyone will still want something different. Going with 7.5 or 8 would seem to be the best compromise.

I'm disappointed that FPL53 will not be used. I'm happy with my 120mm FPL53 and would have taken a chance on the 140mm. Now, I think I need to look through one of these before buying any. If you can have these ready by WSP 2013 you'll have to bring them there and let people have a look.

One bad review about how much color they have could effect sales.


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5216820 - 05/11/12 10:09 AM

I have said since long before this thread started, that f/9 was probably going to be necessary to achieve the level of desired correction. Others seem to want shorter tubes, but have difficulty understanding that adequate focal length is needed to achieve decent correction...

If you don't allow sufficient focal length to achieve a higher level of correction, you may as well settle for an achromat, which at least offers low cost for it's lower level of performance...


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Sol Robbins
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5217103 - 05/11/12 01:00 PM

Markus & Jan,

That's why I thought it might be better to have a 140mm lens as a retrofit on the 6" Synta tube. The correction of a 140mm at f/8.57-f/l 1200mm and, hopefully, overall lens quality/cost would be a better trade-off versus the 10mm aperture increase with less sphero-chromatic correction.


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Sol Robbins]
      #5217410 - 05/11/12 03:48 PM

Sol

10 mm more aperture with a bit lesser good chromatical correction , or 10 mm less with a bit better correction ....aperture will win


Think about the real live use of such telescopes

Objects with high contrast you may use the power 2 times aperture ( 140 mm lens 280 power and 152 mm lens 304 power), on low contrast objects ( like Jupiter) you use normal 1.5 times aperture ( 140 mm lens 210 times , 152 mm lens 225 times ), at this level or NORMAL max powers you will always see more details with the 10 mm bigger lens

Also : if you want a bit better correction on the 152 , just put a 140 mm mask in front and you have what you want :-)


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5217809 - 05/11/12 08:40 PM

I know the example that you give of the correction of an F/30 6" achro would be absolutely fine for me, and well worth the additional cost over an achro.

The 1050mm focal length of an F/7.5 140mm, I think, would just about be good on a CG-5 (entry level) goto EQ. If you go any longer on that scope, you might as well just do the 6", because both would do better on a bigger mount.


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5217824 - 05/11/12 08:49 PM

Quote:

I have said since long before this thread started, that f/9 was probably going to be necessary to achieve the level of desired correction. Others seem to want shorter tubes, but have difficulty understanding that adequate focal length is needed to achieve decent correction...

If you don't allow sufficient focal length to achieve a higher level of correction, you may as well settle for an achromat, which at least offers low cost for it's lower level of performance...




I agree with your opinion. If people are going to influence the production of these scopes based on what mount they have at home that's going to rob us of better colour correction then, I'd say markus make the f/l what ever it needs to be to achieve best correction. I'm sure people will find a way around their mounting issues.


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5217837 - 05/11/12 08:56 PM

Quote:

The 140 F/7 FPL 53 will not comes as FPL, it turned out that even at 200 pc the FPL53 with mating glas is to expensive, so we will switsch it to the same design as the 152F/8 then the price will be hold or more close to $ 3,000, but right now we finishing first the 152 design, then we move to the 140 model

However we plan to release a 160 mm F/7.5 doublet in a price range between 5000 and 5500 $ retail. Here the cost are known by today




I'm still good with the lesser corrected version up to F/7.5, but wasn't your original estimate with the FPL-53 based on a 300 unit minimum order? Just wondering if the 100 unit difference is the cause for the difference?


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: HCR32]
      #5217870 - 05/11/12 09:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I have said since long before this thread started, that f/9 was probably going to be necessary to achieve the level of desired correction. Others seem to want shorter tubes, but have difficulty understanding that adequate focal length is needed to achieve decent correction...

If you don't allow sufficient focal length to achieve a higher level of correction, you may as well settle for an achromat, which at least offers low cost for it's lower level of performance...




I agree with your opinion. If people are going to influence the production of these scopes based on what mount they have at home that's going to rob us of better colour correction then, I'd say markus make the f/l what ever it needs to be to achieve best correction. I'm sure people will find a way around their mounting issues.




If people have the kind of money it takes to upgrade a mount AND buy a 5 1/2 or 6" ED, there are already options at APM.If people are just interested in the best color correction possible there are already options. F/8 achros sold big numbers for a reason. you don't need a 6000.00 mount to use one. OK, maybe you can go to F/9 or 10, and still be good on an Atlas class mount, but then your leaving out all the folks that have been wishing for an upgrade to their C6Rs for years.My preference for a shorter 140mm isn't based on the mount I have at home. It's based on the sheer number of entry level mounts out there. I think Markus would sell an awful lot of scopes if everyone interested could get by with a mount they have at home.


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5218086 - 05/11/12 11:51 PM

Problem is people are happy to buy cheap with the understanding that they aren't buying a flagship model and will be quick to criticize in review. It happens in life people forget where they come from. "rages to riches", and if Marcus stamps it APM then reputation is at stack. Business is business.

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watcher
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: HCR32]
      #5218114 - 05/12/12 12:10 AM

We're talking about color correction here. not quality. Does D&G have a good reputation. These scopes are over 3000 U.S. They are ED doublets not super APOs. I just can' understand why some still can't grasp that this is a type of scope that there is a demand for. There are achros and APOs, right? Why is it so difficult to comprehend that there is an "in between" type. And the type of scope has nothing to do with the quality of the scope.

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5218129 - 05/12/12 12:19 AM

Quote:

Also : if you want a bit better correction on the 152 , just put a 140 mm mask in front and you have what you want :-)




Very good. :-)


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Sol Robbins]
      #5218490 - 05/12/12 10:29 AM

I see this is going to lose sight of the spark that started this whole idea rather quickly - this was a desire for a middle ground scope! Middle ground in price between triplet apo and doublet achro. Middle color correction which is why F/8 was picked. Originally requested to get something in at $3000 or less that had about half the color correction of the triplet.

All I see is more and more emphasis on color correction now.

That was not the idea of the thread or main concern. The thread originator wanted better correction than his 152 achro, but not perfect color. Many agreed at the time with it.

Markus, I think you should stick with the original idea here that so many chimed in on that they would be interested in.


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5218615 - 05/12/12 12:00 PM

I am still very much interested in the original idea. I was even willing to settle for a 150mm f/8 ED with the color correction of an f/20 achro, a level of color correction Markus considered unacceptable and decided to go for one with the correction of an f/30, which should keep me happy for many years, perhaps life.

Refractors with perfect color correction are widely available, the problem is that people doesn't seem willing to accept that such scopes are costly to produce and want perfection at an entry level price. While this is understandable, people should also try to understand that if they can't afford perfection, compromises must be sought. Wherein this compromise lies can vary and what is an acceptable compromise varies from person to person. For me, I am willing to sacrifice a bit of color correction and ultra-low cost to get a very good, but not perfect (color wise) lens at a moderate cost.

Markus, please carry on with the 150mm f/8 ED project!


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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Jan Owen
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5218635 - 05/12/12 12:16 PM

I agree, for the most part.

What I've been asking for, for the last couple years, has been essentially a 6" EON class scope. Not a premium scope; just an upper middle class scope. A doublet, like the EON. I don't care what kind of ED glass is used, as long as the RX delivers about the same level of correction.

I've said I think the focal ratio will have to be on the long side, to allow decent correction without the need of top grade glass, or a triplet design. That was another way to save cost by staying with less expensive glass, without giving up too much performance. Without the extra performance, everyone might as well just buy, or keep their present achros, if they already have one.

I have built, over time, an 8" f/6 Newtonian, with a superb Mike Spooner primary and high quality Antares secondary, with central obstruction below 20%, and have recently further enhanced that scope's capability. Right now, it can easily stand in for a 6.5" top quality APO. So my urgency level has dropped somewhat... Oh, and I just weighed it on an accurate scale, and it weighs exactly 16 pounds. So, aside from it's lever-arm from the tube length, it doesn't require a massive mount.

I'm still interested in an EON class 6" doublet, but I certainly have NO issue if the concensus final scope here comes out to be something different than I'd originally asked for.

If it doesn't meet my needs, I already have a scope that can outperform it in any category I'm likely to use it in, so I won't be overly disturbed by it not happening. And I have a 12" scope that can outperform the 8" handily.

I do worry that sometimes one or two loud squeaky wheels get all the attention, so I've tried to not be overly pushy about my interests. Of course, that hasn't stopped others.

The suggestion to poll the group for what their opinions are, as a group, would probably give Markus a better feel for what the market really is, versus deciding what person presents the most arguments, or the best arguments.

It will, after all, be all those customers who will buy or not buy the scope he decides to make, and not the select few squeaky wheels, that will make this a package that's good for both the buyers and the maker, instead of just a few select folks.


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5218665 - 05/12/12 12:40 PM

Squeeeak...

150mm f/8 ED

Squeeak...

150mm f/8 ED

Squeeak...




Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5218686 - 05/12/12 12:55 PM

Stick with the 6" f/8 replacement lens for all the Meade and Celestrons out there, f/9 at the most if you can supply an extension tube.

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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: tomharri]
      #5218918 - 05/12/12 03:51 PM

the 152 F/8 ED doublet is in progress and will come , also with lens in cell and adapters for your excisting tubes.

I will try to check how a 140 F/7 performs via a F/7.5 , we will check some excisting smaller apos and if I feel the faster F/7 is still fine, then we keep F/7, it it shows to much color, then maybe F/7.5


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5218936 - 05/12/12 04:09 PM



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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5219198 - 05/12/12 07:27 PM

Quote:

the 152 F/8 ED doublet is in progress and will come , also with lens in cell and adapters for your excisting tubes.

I will try to check how a 140 F/7 performs via a F/7.5 , we will check some excisting smaller apos and if I feel the faster F/7 is still fine, then we keep F/7, it it shows to much color, then maybe F/7.5




You da man Markus! I have a feeling you'll be going through multiple runs of these scopes.


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Alvan Clark
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5219897 - 05/13/12 09:20 AM

Quote:


You da man Markus! I have a feeling you'll be going through multiple runs of these scopes.




I'm not going to make any predictions on sales but I wish Markus well. These are a lot like the old Meade ED's. When they worked well people seemed to really like them. Trouble is, they had a lot of problems. The cell was a big problem. There also was a lot of variability in optical quality. Don't know if it was manufacturing or the glass. Markus needs to do better than Meade and then he may get a lot of happy customers. I don't think I'm going to be an early adopter on these but wait for some reviews or hopefully get a look through one.


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Alvan Clark]
      #5220036 - 05/13/12 11:00 AM

Hi Alvan

we have a big scill in making ncie working cells, we will for shure not use such old unstable fancy cells.
Also we have a contract regards quality, anything not reacing this level will be rejected and returned to the manufacturer.
I am more then optimistic about the quality , if we find out that more was promissed , then delivered, we will postphone delivery till problem was solved, but if the manufactur follow our advise and keep the calculated tolerances on cells and polishing, I see no reason why we should have a problem.

The first batches I will controle my self and then after that every single one will be inspected by our optician , before it gets repacked and shipped


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Alvan Clark]
      #5220061 - 05/13/12 11:24 AM

Quote:

Quote:


You da man Markus! I have a feeling you'll be going through multiple runs of these scopes.




I'm not going to make any predictions on sales but I wish Markus well. These are a lot like the old Meade ED's. When they worked well people seemed to really like them. Trouble is, they had a lot of problems. The cell was a big problem. There also was a lot of variability in optical quality. Don't know if it was manufacturing or the glass. Markus needs to do better than Meade and then he may get a lot of happy customers. I don't think I'm going to be an early adopter on these but wait for some reviews or hopefully get a look through one.




If you are anywhere near St. Louis Mo., you can come look through my 140mm when it's made. I will happily take the first one made, without thinking twice about it. If APM-Markus Ludes can't design a great lens cell and control quality, I don't know who can!


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5220093 - 05/13/12 11:46 AM

I think Markus has been doing this a long time and now the pitfalls of older designed lens cells, I am sure he will deliver the right goods and I wish him well on this venture. The option for many who now own Synta 6" F8 refractors who already have upgraded the focuser and want that final step to make there scope a really good ED scope will be realized is great. Markus has had years of dealing with this type scope back in the Chromacor days and now with a replacement lens and cell is an excellent advantage. Alos a new lets say reasonably priced 6" ED F8 scope with very decent built quality will finally be on the market for us visual observers. Its like Feild of Dreams, "build it and they will come" and they will buy.
Keep up the great work Markus.
Jim


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5221532 - 05/14/12 09:36 AM

Quote:


If you are anywhere near St. Louis Mo., you can come look through my 140mm when it's made.




Thanks for the offer but that would be a bit of a drive. I still want to see the final pricing on these too. If I'm going to get one I might as well wait and see if he makes the 160mm.

EDIT: I want him to be successful, otherwise he won't do anything like this again.

Edited by Alvan Clark (05/14/12 09:39 AM)


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Alvan Clark]
      #5221712 - 05/14/12 11:28 AM

The 160 design is made, FPL 53 delivery takes 4 month, production time for first sample around 9 month

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5222104 - 05/14/12 03:05 PM

Markus, whats the ballpark guess of the price for the 160?

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5222187 - 05/14/12 03:43 PM

On page 8 of this thread he posted the price to be between $5K and 5.5K for the 160. For an FPL 53 scope? Could be close in price to the 152mm scope. ????

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saemark30
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: WarrenS]
      #5223719 - 05/15/12 03:01 PM

I thought it was a 140mm FPL53 scope.
Is it up to a 160mm now? I'll take one.


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saemark30
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: saemark30]
      #5223729 - 05/15/12 03:05 PM

Seems it won't use FPL53 at all. Not sure if we need a 140mm using the Chinese glass then.
But 160mm would be comparable to Meade ED scopes of past.


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: saemark30]
      #5224706 - 05/16/12 07:51 AM

again

the 152 mm F/8 use Chinese FK61 + Lanthanium and is in progress
the 140 mm around F/8-8.5 with FK61 and Lanthanium will come after the 152 and after we see in the 152 works everything fine
both made by same company

the 160 F/7.5 will use FPL 53 and comes from another company , estimated delivery time here is about 9 to 10 month from the start ( soon)


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5224786 - 05/16/12 09:28 AM

Markus do you have any idea of what the fee will be for the 152 mm F/8 use Chinese FK61 + Lanthanium in the cell to be able to retrofit to a synta type refractor ota.
Thanks
Jim


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5224836 - 05/16/12 10:11 AM

I don't know Markus. I seems like at that length there would be no real need for the 140mm. If you got a mount that can handle a 140mm F/8 or 8.5, you might as well go for the 6". I don't know. Still might sell some if the price difference is big enough between the 140mm and the 6". Given the choice of the 2, I'll just have to see if I can use the 6" for visual on a CG-5.

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: skyjim]
      #5225567 - 05/16/12 05:26 PM

Jim,
the cell design for sale is made, price without adapter I get next week. If we see that we have enough customers for such project of same tubes we can make a ring cheap in china, if we get one by one slow order we will mashine it ourself, then it cost a bit more
so wait the price next week


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5225572 - 05/16/12 05:29 PM

Joe

the 152 weights 7 kg, I expect the 140 wll be around 5 kg

we have not nly the wait diffrence but also the length diffrence and so torsion arm

a 140 on a EQ 5 might work ok, a 152 will be to shaky

we will se ehow the 15e will be welcome in the market, then we decite to make the 140 if there is enough request


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5225810 - 05/16/12 08:12 PM

I think either will be marginal at best on an EQ-5. I think you will see that there is not much demand for a longer 140 if you have a great 6" already.

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5226022 - 05/16/12 11:08 PM

I think there should be enough of us with Atlas or CGEM mounts that would be interested in the 6".

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: WarrenS]
      #5226048 - 05/16/12 11:33 PM

7kgs {15.4 lbs} is just fine on a EQ5 head as long as you have fully extended 2" STEEL LEGS, the right wider flat hub with the lower set central hole that accepts a EQ5 head and a solid long dovetail bar in place. Any other leg+hub combo/dovetail bar won't work with the scope to kill the irritating shakes, i've tried them all.

I'm riding 23 lbs on my combo with a 6" f/8 achro OTA and it's close as you'll get to rock solid for most observer's taste in the field. Only 3 secs to settle down after you touch the focuser guys.

Markus's new 6" f/8 WILL work on a lighter mount based on the provided weight if you have the right combo of things in place. Go for the next step up for sure if you don't....


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5226151 - 05/17/12 12:43 AM

Thank you, Markus.
Jim


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saemark30
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: skyjim]
      #5228605 - 05/18/12 04:12 PM

There is a need for 160mm and larger scopes using FPL-53.
Similar to FS-152.

Thanks Markus


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: saemark30]
      #5230327 - 05/19/12 10:57 PM

Is the 160 with FPL53 intended more for astrophotography?

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Alvan Clark
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: WarrenS]
      #5230979 - 05/20/12 01:47 PM

I have a 120mm with fpl-53 and have tried astrophotography. It's fine if there are no bright white stars in the field. So, winter's open clusters show purple halos. A springtime galaxy with no bright stars looks fine.

A 160mm would be worse so it would not be ideal for astrophotography but certainly could be used.

You'll have to wait for Markus to explain his glass choice.


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Alvan Clark]
      #5231129 - 05/20/12 03:36 PM

The 160 we have designed use FPL 53, as a doublet it cannot be colorfree, but still good.
I have postphone the start of this model till late summer, need the money for the priority project 152 at moment

By July I am promissed to have first 3 testing samples, if I confirm all is fine, that it goes quick

I also got the prices now for lens in cell, but have to calculate a retai price , will take some days, by end of this week, we should have a number here


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5231311 - 05/20/12 05:52 PM

Thanks for your feedback Markus, but I guess I'm just wondering why you re making both a 152mm AND a 160mm. I do mainly AP with the Meade/AT triplet but would like a larger refractor but can't afford a 6" triplet. Blue halos can be processed out for the most part, but I guess I was under a (mis)impression the fpl 53 would be better for photography. What is the mating element for the 160mm?

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: WarrenS]
      #5235958 - 05/23/12 03:46 PM

so my friends , some news

1, I followed all arguments on the focal length of the 140 and decited we design a 140 mm F/7.5 , main reason for that, it can be used on EQ-5 like mounts and keep the customers new investment lower

2, the production of 3 samples 152 mm F78 doublets starting now, promissed delivery date for this testing samples is July about. If I confirm all is fine serial production start with short delivery times

3, I have now the prices firm for the optical tubes and for the optics. However my original choosed US partners are to busy now with own products, that they cannot join now.

So I will have some talks with new reputatable partners for marketing and selling them around the world. Yes I could sell them straight, but then many potential buyers will not buy , because they will be worried about guarantee handling and service , if we are in germany and they are in USA.
This Apo's will come soon, my word, but I cannot tell you right now wherelse you can buy them , accept from me in Germany, until I found a new partner, respected by you all, for the american market.
For many of the big US vendors, it will be just one of thousand products they carry, so those could be retailers , but not a partner to whom we ship many at once.

What I need is someone who will handle it as a high priority product and taking care on customer services.

If you have some serious idea, send such to me via privat email please, my email is anfrage@apm-telescopes.de

thanks upfront


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5236395 - 05/23/12 08:38 PM

Was getting a little "iffy" for me at F/8 or longer, but at7.5,you can put me back at the top of the list for a 140mm.

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5237562 - 05/24/12 03:30 PM

Thanks for the update Markus. Myself, and many others here I'm sure won't mind waiting until you find a good dealer for these scopes.

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: SteveG]
      #5237678 - 05/24/12 04:47 PM

eanwhile we continue with the test samples, to loose no time

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5244227 - 05/28/12 04:30 PM

just for your informations, tomorrow thuesday I go to a 3 day business trip, will be back thursday night, so do not wonder if you get no answeres from me next 3 days

have fun


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5260720 - 06/07/12 07:45 PM

I know Markus would have posted if there were any news. I just get a little nervous watching everyone's dreams getting close to slipping off the page, sooooo....... BUMP.

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5261588 - 06/08/12 09:44 AM

the 152 is in progress

I 2 weeks I visit the factory in china to do some inspections and discussion for factory testing...its running ...but during the progress there are no news to post something every day or every week :-)


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mdelling
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5263510 - 06/09/12 02:54 PM

Does that mean still no price yet for the 150 mm f/8 lens cell that will be a drop in replacement for existing synta 150s?

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: mdelling]
      #5264934 - 06/10/12 03:44 PM

I have a price for the lens in cell, its retail will be around half the telescope cost

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5274603 - 06/16/12 04:58 PM

And just how do we discern a price from this statement?

Quote:

I have a price for the lens in cell, its retail will be around half the telescope cost




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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: GShaffer]
      #5275387 - 06/17/12 10:02 AM

Quote:

And just how do we discern a price from this statement?

Quote:

I have a price for the lens in cell, its retail will be around half the telescope cost







Somewhere earlier in this thread, I recall Markus was mentioning $3500 to $3900 for a complete OTA


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saemark30
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: WarrenS]
      #5279257 - 06/19/12 05:18 PM

Would these 6" f/8 be like the old Meade ED 6" f/9 scopes?
They were OK if collimated, but showed color on Jupiter visually. But so did AP scopes before ED glass.


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: saemark30]
      #5282348 - 06/21/12 02:09 PM

Quote:

Would these 6" f/8 be like the old Meade ED 6" f/9 scopes?
They were OK if collimated, but showed color on Jupiter visually. But so did AP scopes before ED glass.




Others here have suggested that that might be a fair comparison. We won't know until the units are out. The good news is that there won't be any issues with lens cells & collimation, as AMP knows what they are doing here.


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: SteveG]
      #5282782 - 06/21/12 07:10 PM

When I spoke briefly with Markus at NEAF, he indicated his scopes would be similiar to the Meade refractors in color correction. I'm hoping they're better.

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: WarrenS]
      #5283992 - 06/22/12 02:41 PM

Hi All,

I believe you all have been waiting for this following latest news now for some time :-)

After a 1 week trip through China and 17,000 Miles at the airplane, I came this morning home after an 11 hour flight.
We started with a acceptance test of a APM made and delivered 1 m primary focuse wide field telescope at the National Observatory of the University of Urumqi in west china, then I visited my 152 mm Apo maker to speak about all details and check out the production and testing equipment.

1, I inspected the testing equipment, a green light twymann interferometer was meanwhile set up and testruns have been performed. This interferometer will be used to test each single 152 mm apo , but we will NOT supply a testreport, otherwise customers say I want 1 % more strehl please , so we guarantee like a old famous japanese apo make : better then diffraction limited , but the strehl will be in serial production above 90% , we try to get a stable 95% strehl on each sample

2, a high quality collimator is set up , this is used for critical perfect alignment of each apo lens in cell. The Person handling this collimator prooved to me his scill, so I trust him, I tested several apos he aligned perfectly .

3, we discussed the multicoating, we will do transmission tests, we will use a braodband multicoating with a transmission above 98% from 400 nm to 700 nm for the complete objective.

4, we checked the new designed 2.5" rack and pinion focuser , it has 360 rotation , but we add a middle adapter for those customer who wish to exchange later to a Starlight Feather Touch focuser, so we add a middle adapter with starlight thread.
The focuser need a little more rework to slight a bit smoother. Its very solid designed and showed with very strong german hand pressure not any sign of bending, so its well made for any heavy possible visual or photographic accessorie.The focuser has at its end a standart M68 thread and a adapter M68/2".
We changed the compression ring design to a nice teflon collar system to not run in problems with Stardiagonals with diffrent security nut positions.
We checked the brandnew designed tension stopper and its works phenomenal good, worth to be patented :-)

5, we matched with Zemax our APM/Riccardi 0.75 x Apo Reducer/Flttener

6, we fixed the backfocuse from end of focuser to 180 mm for visual and 210 mm for photographic use with a maximum possible illuminated image circle . The tube knife edge baffles are finaly designed as well.

7, we checked with FEM software if we can reduce the tube wall from 2 mm thickness to 1.5 mm thickness and it works with no bending, now we try to get the tubes made with 1.5 mm wall thickness to get a further reduction of total weight

8, we changed the design of screw on transporting handle to a more easy to use less heavy handle with hand knobs

9, the dewshield is retractable and has a new idea of bajonet locking

10, we keep the transporting case very compact and for packing we choosed a strong double carton packing with foams between case and inner carton and foam between inner and outer carton to make damages during bad transportations almost impossible.

11, we delivery the CNC tube rings with a 3" Losmandy like dovetail as a standart to make it strong on your mount.Optional a Vixen like dovetail can be used.

12, we did a last change in the lens cell, instead of using ABS collimation screws as all chinese apo makers using , which do not expand and shrink during temeperature in same ways as the alu cell, we mashine now temperature stabilised special teflon screws for collimation which we will slighly seal, so the expand and shrink in same way as the cell and the lenses cannot become loosen and rattling , so we minimize the risk of missalignment. The cell design is made in a way that in worsest scenario if can be easy realigned by vendors and customers with our instruction manual, but this should not happen at all.

12, in 4 to 5 weeks the first 3 testing sample telescopes are done and shipped to me. If all is ok we start production with first run with a delivery time of 3 to 4 month.
This means delivery to customers will start in around late october to late november if the test samples show no problem or no serius problems on the optics.

Prices :
- we will retail the lens in cell with push pull flange , adapter for the major excisting 6"F/8 achro tubes and coolimation tool for US $ 1,990 in USA and in europe where we pay more customs and high VAT for Euro 1,990

- the optical tube with all above features will be below $ 4,000 retail and in europe below Euro 4,000 Euro.

our promissed partner for USA will not jump in, he has to many own business and cannot add this program. If we find before delivery of the serial production a trustfull partner the retail can be around $ 3,500.....if not, then we have to ship small quantitys from germany to US dealers and US customers from Germany, then due a second international shipping and dutie we will be closer to US $ 3,950 retail include shipping and dutie to USA.

I have had a nice work shop this past days with the manufacturer, above you know now all important details.

So as you now hopefully see, we have not been sleeping but working strong in the underground till we could present now today most details :-)

One last thing I like to mention , the colorcorrection will be about same as in todays known doublet ED Apos of similar focallength, due our mating element of lanthanium.

Now lets cross fingers, that we get the good glas material, thats the only unknown factor of today on which we have no influence


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Astrojensen
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5284062 - 06/22/12 03:37 PM

Looks like the project is going on rails here!

Can't wait to see the final products. I'm glad I already have a good scope, or else the waiting time would be painful! I better start saving up already.

Thanks for keeping us updated.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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Crow Haven
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5284485 - 06/22/12 09:46 PM

A great update! I'm looking forward to the lens upgrade kit!

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watcher
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5284659 - 06/23/12 12:12 AM

Very impressive! And I'm not even talking about the scope. The way you have taken this from idea to design to pre-production in such a short time is really amazing.



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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5285339 - 06/23/12 01:42 PM

and on top of all, we start nw to design a motorfocuse for handcontroller and PC and I-Phone controle :-)

if this scope find a success we are ready to do start with same speed a 140 mm and a 165 mm doublet


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Alvan Clark
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5288142 - 06/25/12 10:02 AM

There seems to be a big price difference between the cell and telescope. If retrofitting the cell is an easy task it would seems to be a lot cheaper to just buy the cell. Then get a used 6" for $500 or so. Total cost would only be $2500 vs $3500-3900 for the finished scope.

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Astrojensen
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Alvan Clark]
      #5288450 - 06/25/12 01:41 PM

Quote:

There seems to be a big price difference between the cell and telescope. If retrofitting the cell is an easy task it would seems to be a lot cheaper to just buy the cell. Then get a used 6" for $500 or so. Total cost would only be $2500 vs $3500-3900 for the finished scope.




And? The APM tube is likely 1000% nicer than the Synta/Sky-Watcher/Celestron 6" f/8 OTAs. A used 6" f/8 for $500 and then the APM ED lens for another $2k may sound like a great deal, compared to the ~$3500 price tag for the APM ED OTA, but when you consider that you'll also need to upgrade the focuser on the Synta, and to a really nice one at that, to match the quality of the lens, then the difference is not so large anymore.

The real deal is for us who already own an upgraded Synta with nice focuser, finder, rings, mount, etc. We can get the lens in cell for ~$2k, put it on our already excellent scopes and suddenly have a near-apo for 1/3rd the price. If you have to go out and find a used scope first, a lot of the bargain appeal disappears.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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watcher
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5289101 - 06/25/12 08:28 PM

Of course, if you can find one with a big ol' clamshell on the lens for just north of free, it could be a really sweet deal!

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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5289480 - 06/26/12 02:03 AM

a major part of the big price diffrence is not the tube right rings and case, but also much much more expensive international shipping cost, taxes , etc.

Think about the packing of a little 6" lens and of a 6"F/8 scope in alu cae, double boxed

thats why we make the lens attractive to you


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saemark30
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5305519 - 07/06/12 02:34 PM

Is there going to be a OK4 doublet coming soon?
I believe there is talk of it being 6" f/8.

Edited by saemark30 (07/06/12 02:37 PM)


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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: saemark30]
      #5305530 - 07/06/12 02:40 PM

The Massimo Riccardi Designed OK-4 Doublet , made by LZOS is in our stock in germany for daily shipping

lens in cell http://www.apm-telescopes.net/en/Optical-Accessories/Optical-Sets/Lenses-in-Cell/APM-LZOS-Apo-Refraktoren-152-F/1200-Apochromat-Lens-in-Cell-2-lenses.html




and complete optical tubes with 2.5" focuser http://www.apm-telescopes.net/en/Telescopes-/Refracting-Telescopes-OTA/Apochromates/APM-LZOS-Telescope-Refractor-152-mm-f/1200-mm-2.5-ZTA.html

or with 3" focuser http://www.apm-telescopes.net/en/Telescopes-/Refracting-Telescopes-OTA/Apochromates/APM-LZOS-Telescope-Refractor-152-mm-f/1200-mm-2.5-ZTA1.html




so if you want one, send your order


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Jan Owen
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: saemark30]
      #5306756 - 07/07/12 01:17 PM

For those looking for a high quality $10,000 APO refractor, I have no doubts that the one Markus offers in this class is in the upper tier of superb scopes available, and well worth the cost.

But that's also not the scope, nor objective, that this thread is about...


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skybsd
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5307841 - 07/08/12 07:41 AM

Quote:

The Massimo Riccardi Designed OK-4 Doublet , made by LZOS is in our stock in germany for daily shipping

lens in cell http://www.apm-telescopes.net/en/Optical-Accessories/Optical-Sets/Lenses-in-Cell/APM-LZOS-Apo-Refraktoren-152-F/1200-Apochromat-Lens-in-Cell-2-lenses.html




and complete optical tubes with 2.5" focuser http://www.apm-telescopes.net/en/Telescopes-/Refracting-Telescopes-OTA/Apochromates/APM-LZOS-Telescope-Refractor-152-mm-f/1200-mm-2.5-ZTA.html

or with 3" focuser http://www.apm-telescopes.net/en/Telescopes-/Refracting-Telescopes-OTA/Apochromates/APM-LZOS-Telescope-Refractor-152-mm-f/1200-mm-2.5-ZTA1.html




so if you want one, send your order




Hi,
The link for the 3-inch focuser model takes me to the same page for the 2.5-inch focuser model..,

Regards,

skybsd


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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: skybsd]
      #5307904 - 07/08/12 09:03 AM

ups sorry, here the correct one http://www.apm-telescopes.net/en/product.html?info=3290

picture on the side with 3 inch focuser follow this week


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Jan Owen
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Reged: 02/12/06

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5308447 - 07/08/12 03:19 PM

Nice!

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Spyke
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5308580 - 07/08/12 04:40 PM

Ok, I came really late to this party, but I'm really interested in a 152mm ED upgrade for my Helios 6" f8 OTA with Moonlite focuser. Would the lens in cell require new baffle placement? Would it fit my Helios 150 tube? It's virtually identical to the Celestron and Skywatcher C6 models I think.

Ant


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Jan Owen
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Spyke]
      #5308767 - 07/08/12 06:34 PM

Markus & his associates have proven pretty resourceful in dealing with this general kind of thing in the past, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt right now... He has excellent machining services, and telescope assembly resources at his command.

So, just try & be patient, & let this process take it's natural course... The proof (or not, but again, because of his record in the past, I'm certainly more than willing to give Markus the chance to show us what he can DO, and so far, he's been doing just fine...) is only a few more months ahead...


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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Spyke]
      #5311043 - 07/10/12 08:48 AM

Hi Ant

if you replace your achromat with this new ED Apo , no baffle replacement needet. What you need is a new tube adapter to connec tour lens cell to your tube, that what we will be offering to anybody


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plyscope
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5320979 - 07/16/12 07:59 PM

Found this on the APM website.

Also this for the OTA.

Edited by plyscope (07/16/12 10:21 PM)


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WarrenS
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: plyscope]
      #5322022 - 07/17/12 02:01 PM

Those items seem to be exactly what Markus is talking about in this thread. Not sure about Australia, but he indicated he's looking for a distributor here in the US before offering the scope/lens assembly here.

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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: WarrenS]
      #5322187 - 07/17/12 03:53 PM

Hi Warren

we started already to accept pre-orders with european dealers. As soon I have tested the first 3 samples , I will contact US dealers.
I will have one for demo and sale at the First Annual Arizona Science & Astronomy Expo November 10 & 11, 2012! in Tucson.
This will be Nr.1 sold in USA.

As soon as my test of first samples is done, we will move fast and delivery up to 250 pc before christmas, if we get so many orders :-)


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Live_Steam_Mad
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Reged: 07/24/07

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5328287 - 07/21/12 01:21 PM

Hi Markus, do you guarantee that this 6" F8 OTA from you will have a certain maximum level of spherical correction? If so, what will it be? As I am wanting to upgrade to a very good planetary 'scope.

I have a Meade StarNavigator 102 (don't laugh!) and it splits the Double-Double (Epsilon Lyrae) easily, for example (2.3") but the 1st diffraction rings on those stars (E2) were quite easily visible at 200x, and I see that in the excellent Aberrator 3.0 Beta (did that guy ever update it?) that I seem to have about 1/4 wave optics (maybe 1/4 wave SA, maybe a little HSA, and a "small" amount of astigmatism maybe 1/5 wave, some of which seems to be coming from the diagonal).

I also see from Aberrator, and that if I had e.g. a 6" refractor with say 1/6 wave or better optics, I could see a LOT more detail on Jupiter with "decent" seeing conditions, compared with my 4" F8 Meade Achromatic refractor.

Is it possible that you could offer this 6" OTA with say 1/6 wave SA maximum guaranteed (and only say 1/8 wave of astigmatism at most), so that I could get excellent planetary performance, in which case how much would such an OTA cost from you?

As I get annoyed at manufacturers who cannot do excellent optics LOL (I wasn't referring to you!) as it makes all the difference with details on Jupiter (mushy view versus awesome view), and in my mind reputation should be more important than profits... Meade are you listening?!...

I am no longer willing to accept merely 1/4 wave ("Diffraction limited") optics as I need about 1/6 wave minimum. And I saw in a review once that a TeleVue 'scope had only 1/4 wave optics, which annoyed me, whereas I have never read of a TMB, Astro-Physics or Takahashi OTA which had worse than about 1/6 wave optics? Pity about the "enormous" price tags.

I also see that e.g. a 6" OTA with 1/6 wave optics or better just about completely removes that annoying 1st diffraction ring that I am seeing. At least Aberrator seems to think so?!

Also, is there an Alt-Az mount that I could mount this OTA on which has GOTO and tracking motors which have no vibrations at high powers (350x or so)? Since my mount's drive motors vibrate the objects at 200x !! Yeah I know, I bought an entry level 'scope LOL.

I am glad that you are going for a lightweight instrument, and that you are using a doublet for faster cool down times compared with a triplet.

Cheers,

Alistair G.


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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Live_Steam_Mad]
      #5328331 - 07/21/12 01:55 PM

Hi Alistair

depends what you mean on 1/6 wave, do you mean overal correction, which is what you see at the startest, or do you mean critical carefull measured by interferometer ?

we sold many LZOS which show a 1/8 wave startest but measured due small areas on paper by interferometer 1/4 or to 1/5 wave.

we do on each scope a startest and we will accept only good scopes by my human eye startest.
Lemons we will return in case we get such.
If you want super high end, get a LZOS 152/1200 doublet, we have them now in stock.
On a mass production of 250 pc as we do with the chinese we have to accept a kind of varation in terms of quality, but we will test them and sell no Lemons


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Live_Steam_Mad
sage


Reged: 07/24/07

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5328667 - 07/21/12 06:20 PM

Hello Markus,

Quote:

depends what you mean on 1/6 wave, do you mean overal correction, which is what you see at the startest, or do you mean critical carefull measured by interferometer ?




I mean by the Star Test done by an experienced human eye, I do not much trust interferometer testing just yet.

Quote:

we sold many LZOS which show a 1/8 wave startest but measured due small areas on paper by interferometer 1/4 or to 1/5 wave.




Understood. I would accept the LZOS as a high quality planetary instrument if I saw a 1/8 wave Star Test. I don't really care what the interferometer says.

Quote:

we do on each scope a startest and we will accept only good scopes by my human eye startest.




Now you see there's what I mean. You Star Test each of your new 6" F8 OTA (the subject of this forum topic) but WHAT level of correction are you going to be rejecting as being not good enough?

I need 1/6 wave minimum of SA (Spherical Aberration) (and no astigmatism) on the Star Test to give me the correction that I need to give me good detail on Jupiter, from what I see on Aberrator.

Wish I could test my Meade SN102 on Jupiter but it's too low down at the moment to get a good view.

BTW When I say Star Test, I mean using the methods in H R Suiter's book (on my Meade SN102, I tested on Alkaid, the left most star in Ursa Major, a 2nd mag. star, at 100x and defocussed by the amount recommended in his book either side of focus, and saw about 1/4 wave of undercorrection in SA. For a 6" I would want to still see a good star test at say 350x, but you do the main test at 10x per 10mm of aperture, so at 150x for the 6", as I understand it?).

BTW How do you conduct your star test on a 6" F8, I am curious to know if I am doing anything "wrong"?

If I see great detail on Jupiter with your 6" F8 that I might buy, and a very faint 1st diffraction ring on mag. 2 stars, then I will be very grateful, and will realise that the instrument is excellent.

For me, 1/4 wave is merely "good". 1/6 to 1/8 wave SA and no Astigmatism or other faults I consider to be excellent, and it's an excellent 'scope that I need to upgrade to. "Good" just isn't good enough. "Diffraction Limited" isn't good enough. Aberrator shows me that.

>Lemons we will return in case we get such.

Good, since I have a 19.5" F4.1 that has about 1.5 waves SA (!), and I grew up with a 60mm refractor that never even showed ANY diffraction pattern at either 37x or 125x (!) so I have had my fill of *BLEEP* optics for one life time. But then I got more lucky and got a just about perfect C11, and a Meade 7" Maksutov LX50 OTA for 100 GBP that is pretty good on the Star Test.

I bought the SN102 as a grab and go 'scope, it cools in 25 mins and has good optics. Unlike my friend Jon whose SN102 is moderately astigmatic, and has 1/2 wave undercorrected SA...

>If you want super high end, get a LZOS 152/1200 doublet, we have them now in stock.

If only... funds are limited to say the least. I still haven't even got a mount yet for the two OTA's I have. Would the HEQ5 or EQ6 be fairly stable (damping times 2 to 3 seconds at 250x) with your 6" F8?

>On a mass production of 250 pc as we do with the chinese we have to accept a kind of varation in terms of quality

Now you see that is what makes me nervous to order one. Of course what matters is the amount of variation - it is the minimum level of correction that I have to worry about as a potential customer. However if you can guarantee at least 1/6 wave at the star test with human eye then I would order one as soon as I have seen impartial reviews (Ed Ting, Todd Gross, etc).

Cheers,

Alistair G.


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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Live_Steam_Mad]
      #5329193 - 07/22/12 01:33 AM

Hi Alistair

if youz are really such a critical startest, sometimes you would reject even some worldfamous apo's which show sometimes a startest you would never believe to see by the high claims.

so I bring you some samples to get us at the same startest level



above is a startest of a excellent optics, guess around 1/8 P.t.v. with a very mild little center zonal defect , very smooth, but if the effect I see on the smaller defocused images is not from camera, then this optics would have a cell pinching, seen by the non round 6 corner circle

-----------


above is not a bad scope either, it has more color and a small undercorrection and is not as much smooth as first picture, but a general nice polished surface. Again I can notice a zonal deffect, but this time a very low wider diameter, almost invisible, such once you find in very many apos of very many manufacturers even famous once.

This ia good scope and would pass my test for shipping, of course if there is not coma and not astigmatism on the axis
--------


aboe not a to bad either, it has a small turned edge ( undercorrection) and a visible center zon, so this one would be around my lower border for passing

finaly, the guys you mention I know personaly very well from old days and I repesct here work very much, but they are in no way reference people for me for doing startests, not at all.

Since you seems to see a person who wait till others jumped in and reviewed stuff, you will be one who has to wait a lot longer before you may buy and get one

on Top here http://www.teleskop-shop.at/testphotos/Refractor_color_test/Vega_testphotos_apochromats.jpg

a web link which show many diffrent startest images , not talking about the color, only about how they look like, all of them would be allowed to go into the market

Th SKW 120/900BD and SW66/400 would be my lowest limit of allowed undercorrection

have a great weekend

Edited by APM M.Ludes (07/22/12 05:35 AM)


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Live_Steam_Mad
sage


Reged: 07/24/07

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5343827 - 07/30/12 05:11 PM

Hi Markus,

Quote:

so I bring you some samples to get us at the same startest level



above is a startest of a excellent optics,




Concerning these first group of images of the 100/550... I don't understand how this is a Star Test in the normal way. Since the DSLR in question has a sensor width of 22.5mm and sensor height of 15mm, then magnification here at Prime Focus with this 550mm FL 'scope would be 20x

http://www.astro.shoregalaxy.com/dslr_calc.htm#calculator

http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_SLR/Technologies_Features/CMOS_Sensor.aspx

...whereas according to Mr.Suiter's book you should instead be Star Testing at 100x with a 4" refractor (1x per mm). Presumably you should also be using the Eyepiece Projection method, and an integration of say 2000 frames of short exposure, aligned with e.g. Registax).

I don't see how you can call this excellent optics without seeing a test at 100x .

Now, if you see these same patterns at 100x then I can see that the two large images are defocussed way too much (maybe around 18 waves or so?) whereas they should be defocussed to 12 or 10 waves at most (count the rings).

With the two medium sized patterns, they seem to be defocussed to the correct number of waves (but contrast /resolution is problematic so I can't see the ring stucture properly). The outer ring is noticeably brighter for the intra-focal pattern, so it's Undercorrected for Spherical Aberration, in this case by about 1/5 wave, simulating it with Aberrator. Yes I agree with there being a central zone (darker in centre on one pattern and brighter by same amount on the corresponding pattern).

The two small images are puzzling. They look to be defocussed by 5 or 6 waves, but the SA looks to if anything be showing overcorrection! But then again the extra-focal pattern is smaller than the intra-focal pattern, so they can't be directly compared properly I suppose.

On a side note - Suiter's book says that when there is a turned edge in a refractor, the inside focus pattern has contrasty rings, whereas the outside focus pattern has low contrast (poorly defined) rings. Oddly enough in my SN102 the situation is reversed. I have high contrast rings on the outside, lower contrast rings inside. But the outer ring is quite similar brightness on both patterns on my 102, only a bit brighter inside focus (showing maybe 1/4 wave SA undercorrection).

>guess around 1/8 P.t.v. with a very mild little center zonal defect , very smooth, but if the effect I see on the smaller defocused images is not from camera, then this optics would have a cell pinching, seen by the non round 6 corner circle

If you have two images that are oval, I always check for one pattern being at 90 degrees rotation from the other, and being oval by the same amount, which is a sure sign of Astigmatism.

I have 3.0 Diopteres (!) of astigmatism (severe) in my best eye, which means that with my SN102 I can remove my glasses at 180x and 200x (9mm Meade MA + Barlow, 8mm TV Radian + Barlow, 0.5mm exit pupil) and see a sharp round Airy disc with one rather fainter diffraction ring, but at 90x or 100x (without Barlow) (1mm exit pupil) my own astigmatism makes me see definite crosses even with my glasses on, which annoys me. My spectacles are 3 years old so maybe I need a eye test.

With low power (32x, 64x) I see very noticeable crosses on stars, I can tell it's from my own eyes because when I defocus the pattern is rather oval (unlike at high power) and the pattern's ovality rotates WHEN I ROTATE MY HEAD, and at high power there is just a little astigmatism and the oval pattern stays fixed in orientation. When stars go towards the edges of the field the eyepiece off-axis astigmatism dominates the view. With my glasses off, my eye's astigmatism dominates everything and stars are horrendous crosses.

-----------


For this second scope you do not supply any details of what the magnification is that I am seeing the diffraction pattern at, so with respect, any opinions would be meaningless unless you can tell us what the magnification is. Also the amount of defocus is far too high and the rings are very low contrast. Not a useful star test IMHO.

--------


>aboe not a to bad either, it has a small turned edge ( undercorrection) and a visible center zon, so this one would be around my lower border for passing

Again you do not give the magnification that the diffraction pattern is being viewed at (which again is of course critical) but OK let's assume that it is at an appropriate magnification, in which case WOW yes it has a very obvious turned down edge.

Using Aberrator 2, since Aberrator 3 doesn't seem to be able to simulate TDE (?) then I see about 1/4 wave of TDE, which is not "small", considering that this looks to be an expensive APO.

>finaly, the guys you mention I know personaly very well from old days and I repesct here work very much, but they are in no way reference people for me for doing startests, not at all.

Sorry I don't agree at all. I have read many of Ed Ting's reviews and he is a very experienced Star Tester and I would trust what he says (since he is not a seller or manufacturer LOL). With respect, you are not going to be an independent tester of these intruments that you are going to be selling. Hence my wanting to see some indepedent reviews (of RANDOM samples), plus at least a number of people who are also happy with the star test, before I order. Otherwise, I have seen too many optics which do not satisfy me.

I read somewhere that there are machines that can lay down 1/10 wave onto glass repeatably. Yet I see a lot of telescopes with 1/2 wave SA etc. That's the part I don't understand.

At this time I only trust TMB, Takahashi, or AstroPhysics. If someone else can keep the quality control consistently high then I would trust them too. Otherwise I have read too many reviews from experienced figures in the hobby which say things like "noticeable astigmatism on this C9.25" etc...

Quality control is EVERYTHING. LOL.


>on Top here http://www.teleskop-shop.at/testphotos/Refractor_color_test/Vega_testphotos_apochromats.jpg

With respect, the person who has created these has not supplied details of what the magnification is of the diffraction pattern, thereby making these star test or comparisons useless. Also these are star tests on Vega, when instead Suiter states in his book that one should be using a mag. 2 star for 4" and maybe mag. 3 for 6" and larger. Not Vega, which will overestimate the aberrations.

Just my personal opinions based on what I read in Suiter's book and what Aberrator 2/3 shows me.

Regards,

Alistair G.


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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Live_Steam_Mad]
      #5347153 - 08/01/12 03:07 PM

Hi Allister

1, everybody who does a startest or imaging a startest understand that the first image is not a prime focuse image, but a projection image, otherwise you would not get such big scale

the brightness of the images depends on exporshure times. The brightness is not important at all and not what you looking for, you look for the symmetry and if they the fressnell rings are nice and smooth and if the outer bright ring is very similar

Please use aberrator and show me your estimation of 1/5 wave side by side with this given images

regards contrast of the fressnell rings you suiter is right what he say, if you do the test right. Any apo has spherochromatism and thats why you use filters .
Apos have if perfect made a perfect spherical correction at one wavelength, normaly at green, so if you use a green filter you see perfect image on both sides, but if you use in same scope a blue or red filter you see diffrences due the spherochromatism


Second image: you are partly right, but a scilled startester or optician still can read a lot out of the second image and it shows no big errors

third image : 1/4 wave turned edge is formyself to much too, but you would not believe how many apos have such level of correction, even some famous once

You trust whom you want, your deal, I trust with whom I did togher a startest and I did startesting with ED and I have my own opinion

You trust companys due here long time earned reputation, I dont , I have seen from any company in the world , from any apo maker in the world, good and bad optics

The person who created that startests also tests by interferometer, yes he could or should supply more info, but people who know startesting very well, still can read a lot out of those pictures

the first scope was interferometrical tested with 1/6.5 wavefront p.t.v. and 96.5% strehl and thats a superb optics, espcialy when you consider its a F/5.5 triplet


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saemark30
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5348670 - 08/02/12 12:49 PM

Hi Markus,
what eyepiece(s) do you use for the projection images?


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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: saemark30]
      #5348929 - 08/02/12 03:51 PM

extremly clean onces, best choice is a ortho, due its colorcorrection and no distortion

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tommy_nawratil
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5363289 - 08/11/12 12:39 PM

hi,

this startest on the 100/550 Skywatcher Triplet Apo was indeed done in primary focus, not in projection, to exclude any addional optics and their influence. The purpose was actually to get an idea of the color correction mainly. You know, nowadays there is a flood of different scopes all labeled "apochromatic", and this is an easy way to get an impression of how the scope really deals with colors for photographic purposes. Examine color fringing at focus and around the defocussed star (Vega). It's part of a comparative series I do, see the whole series here and zoom in a lot to see especially color fringes around focus clearly:
http://www.teleskop-shop.at/testphotos/Refractor_color_test/Vega_testphotos_apochromats.jpg

In that pics you only could see the coarsest surface errors. Surface evaluation by star test would need more magnification and smaller defocus of course, as suggested by Suiter. Also, these pics are snapshots and suffer from seeing artefacts especially near focus, where the exposure time has to be short not to burn out the disks.

Color correction depends a lot on the used glasses and remains for a given model, real star testing should always be made on the individual scope.

The surface of this 100/500 Skywatcher Apo was determined separately using interferometry. Therefore I can confirm there is a very slight central zone, but main error (if you want to call it like this) is a slight overcorrection that counts for a loss of 3% Strehl ratio only, still a near perfect scope.

clear skies!
Tommy

edit: Just saw Alistair already postet the link to the series, sorry to double it. But I hope I could point out what is the purpose of these tests, and why I choosed Vega and no projection method.
Magnification - I think the magnification of a photo depends on what size it is displayed and from what distance do you look at it, it's not a fixed value like using an eyepiece visually where you can exactly tell how much the angular size of an object is multiplied.

Edited by tommy_nawratil (08/11/12 08:38 PM)


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Sean Puett
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: tommy_nawratil]
      #5370179 - 08/15/12 01:52 PM

I don't want to search through the whole thread. Is there a date for shipping yet?

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tomharri
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Sean Puett]
      #5370195 - 08/15/12 02:03 PM

Just in time for Christmas 2012, if the arabs havn't nuked anyone first!!.

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WarrenS
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: tomharri]
      #5370409 - 08/15/12 05:04 PM

Quote:

Just in time for Christmas 2012, if the arabs havn't nuked anyone first!!.




Hopefully before December 21, when the Mayan calender flips and the world ends. Oh wait, I forgot, the end of the world was cancelled!


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gmartin02
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: tomharri]
      #5370709 - 08/15/12 09:09 PM

Quote:

Just in time for Christmas 2012, if the arabs havn't nuked anyone first!!.


I know you meant this (ignorant) comment in jest, but you have just violated the TOS of these forums. This is straight from the Cloudy Nights Terms of Service: "No posts of a political nature."

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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: gmartin02]
      #5371740 - 08/16/12 03:14 PM

beginn to middle of september 3 test samples going out to me, after I aprooved them production will start

you will see a live sample in Arizona in November at the new show. The sample will be there for sale at shows end , 1 of the first 3 if they aproove


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Ambiorix
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5375746 - 08/19/12 10:43 AM

Not wanting to start a war here, but Ronaldo from...well you all know him, wishes Markus good luck with this new "cheap" ED doublet, and he says he will need it! Ronaldo his never seen any good samples of the glass you are using for this scope (not the lanthanum, which he finds excellent, but the other one....FK something). According to Ronaldo this glass is inferior, to say the least, and your scopes will not perform with this glass at all and you will loose your money with this experiment.....forget the exact terminology he used, but it was something in the trend like "this glas, FK something is never clear or never suited for usage in a fine telescope...

Hope he's wrong, because I was interested,....but Ronaldo is not exactly what you might call an amateur, but one of the most respected people in the industry....

Just my, well Ronaldo's two cents....


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Alvan Clark
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Ambiorix]
      #5375801 - 08/19/12 11:23 AM

I don't know about Markus losing money. He claimed earlier that if the scopes don't perform he will not pay for them.

I'm just taking a wait and see approach. He mentioned earlier a 160mm with FPL 53 which is more interesting to me anyway.


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gatorengineer
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Alvan Clark]
      #5376057 - 08/19/12 02:44 PM

Lets give Markus a break..... Meade did 6 and 7 inch ED APOs 10 years ago, at F9, F8 isnt much of a stretch given how far glass has came.... If Meade can do it Markus can do it.....

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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: gatorengineer]
      #5376928 - 08/20/12 02:08 AM

I am not worried right now to much. Many today chinese Apos made from FK61 and performing great. we informed Chengdu when we ordered the blanks about the info from Rolando and they promissed very good blanks, thats why the glas delivery took 4weeks longer then offered first.
Now next month I get a few samples for test and then we see the truth. if they keep the required quality we go into production and Chengdu will sell glas , if they deliver bad glas, the get no business.
Per my contract with the apo maker I pay only good products, so I have no mone risk at all


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Ambiorix
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5376973 - 08/20/12 03:17 AM

Good man, I really hope you will prove Ronaldo's wrong....fair enough, we'll see, if you do, you can count me in on one of those refractors, but as I said before, I am not trying to heat things up here, it's hot enough allready (40 degrees celsius in the shade) but, Ronaldo is not just anybody and, to be honest with you Markus, I would have been much happier and more comfortable buying one if only you'd use FPL-53 instead of FK-61.

Off course you allready have an LZOS Ricardi doublet....better...and more expensive too....so I understand...

But on the other hand.....

Heck, even really cheap Chinese brands are using FPL53 now on even their doublets, and with excellent result, and still at the same good prices, so I somehow wonder why you could not have gone in that direction....especially since you will be using it in your 160??

Well, you probably have your reasons, more profit probably, which is o.k., no problems, you have to make a living out of this after all:)

And if those FK-61 doublets will be very good, contrary to what Ronaldo is claiming, I will buy one immediately.

Keep us posted about the progress....!


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WarrenS
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Ambiorix]
      #5377104 - 08/20/12 08:09 AM

With all due respect and not to question anyone's integrity, I recall that Roland' s glass comments were based on a sample he gave to his glass supplier to evaluate. I'm sure his glass supplier while honest, would not want to potentially lose his business if he said "yeah, this Chinese glass is excellent".

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Ambiorix
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: WarrenS]
      #5377143 - 08/20/12 08:57 AM

I suppose that if Ronaldo gave a sample to his glass supplier, as you say, he absolutely must have thought that that supplier knew what he was doing, and that he could thrust him, otherwise a man like Ronaldo would not have given him that sample, if he new what he was going to answer in advance, and if he knew that supplier would tell him nonsence out of business interest, no?

Anyway, Ronaldo had someone who knew what he was doing test this glass, as far as I can understand at least, and it turned out 100% wrong with this FK-61.

But on the other hand, I understand your point, and it might have gone the way you think....but I doubt it....

Anyway, we'll have to wait and see. If markus thinks this glass is rubish, he won't buy it, simple as that, if it's good, we will finally be able to buy good doublets for visual use at good prices too.

Not a bad deal for all us us I should say....

Well and if it turns out the wrong way, Markus will have spent all his precious and "expensive" time for naught, and will have travelled to China for nothing too..So let's hope it turns out right for Markus and for us!:)

I'm slightly optimistic about it....but not 100%...


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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Ambiorix]
      #5377154 - 08/20/12 09:06 AM

How about that: Roland and Yuri posting that they got bad FPL53 and here claim was rejected by Ohara !!!! now my manufacturer have very good relation with Chengdu and fell save ghere and in good hands if they have a claim, that is reason enough and lower also manufacturers risk of money lost. also with FPL53 we would be easy to much more expensive , so nobody would buy it anymore. We all have had the idea cheap and good.
On Top of that who proove that those claiming they use Fpl53 , really use FPL 53 and not FK61 ??? I have open hears and bring this up because something arrived at my ears.
We do what we say or we dont bring it out , quality yes, *BLEEP* not


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Ambiorix
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5377396 - 08/20/12 11:57 AM

Yes Markus, you take the exact words out of my mind when you are saying :"Who says they are really using FPL-53 and not FK-61...."

I was also thinking about that, but forgot to mention it in my previous reply.....

But if this is indeed the case then we can't believe anyone anymore, any cheap brand.....I hope that manufacturers are not selling us FK61 for FPL53


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SteveG
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Ambiorix]
      #5377547 - 08/20/12 01:07 PM

Ambiorix, for the record his name is Roland, not Ronaldo.

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Doug Culbertson
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: SteveG]
      #5377608 - 08/20/12 01:48 PM

He probably meant Rolando, which is how RC sometimes signs his posts on Astromart.

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Ambiorix
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Doug Culbertson]
      #5377846 - 08/20/12 03:51 PM

Holy Moly, you're ansolutely right, it's indeed Rolando

I don't know how I came up with Ronaldo....was probably confusing him with the soccer star Ronaldo....unconsciously..

...anyway the guy is so well known and respected here everyone knows who I was talking about, even if his name was spelled wrong...

and maybe he can play a bit of soccer too

Anyway, thanks for reminding me


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Doug Culbertson
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Ambiorix]
      #5377864 - 08/20/12 03:58 PM

Don't know about soccer, but he's a pretty fair ballroom dancer!

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APM M.Ludes
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Doug Culbertson]
      #5378794 - 08/21/12 04:42 AM

My german hobby designer gerd dring played a bit with designs for FPL53 douplet paired with MBM51 is worse then our FK61 with Lanthanium we choosed.Rolando have his doubt from his experienced, thats fine, but Rolando does not test always actual improvements and china is improving daily, just see how superb they doing the optics inthe esprit triplets, Rolando stated in past China will never do such high end optics, today they do it in serial production, so time moves on and Rolando do not check every day this movements

My manufacturer is maybe stupid, maybe not, if he is stupid he waste hismoney, not mine, not yours, I believe he is not stupid :-)


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SteveG
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5379481 - 08/21/12 02:09 PM

Rolando certainly has a reputation, and I would love to own any of his products, but I agree with Markus in that this testing took place many years ago and things have changed. I have an ED doublet from Taiwan that performs admirably, and I welcome these new 6" ED doublets, even if they do show a little bit of color!

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Ambiorix
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: SteveG]
      #5380458 - 08/22/12 04:08 AM

Yes Markus, indeed RoLaNdo did say in the past that those Chinese scopes where sh*#, but so did you, all the time, if I recall correctly, and so did I, as did probably everybody else:) And today we are all proven wrong by those Chinese Wizards, just as we were all proven wrong by those Japanese and their no-good cars, remember,some 30 odd years or so ago? A Lexus or Toyota is today every inch as good a car as our own brands, to say the least, and now it seems to be going in the same direction with the Chinese apo's...

If you would have told me a couple of years ago that Markus Ludes himself would one day declare that a Chinese "rather" cheap apo, like the Esprit, was every bit as good as his own APM LZOS' , TEC's, AP's etc..., I would have declared you completely mad:)

If you would have told me that Ludes himself was going to bring out apo's with his posh APM name on them, with Chengdu Chinese glass in it, I would have suggested that you were totally insane:)

And yes Steve, indeed me too, I would welcome a 6" ED doublet, wich would put 15 pounds on the scales and which would have the same quality as...say a Takahashi FS 152 perhaps...and would cost no more than a good 4" apo....who wouldn't!

And about that colour, let me tell you this : I have owned APM115 LZOS, APM130 LZOS, Televue NP101, Takahashi Sky 90, TEC 140, all fine scopes, no doubt about it, but I remember a couple of years ago we were with a couple of friends looking at the skies with my friend's Skywatcher 150/1200 achromat at Saturn, and guess what, the false colour did not bother me one single bit, as a.m.o.f., I had one hell of a hard time seeing any at all!!! It was certainly one of the best views of Saturn I have ever seen! The seeing was perfect, so this is much more important than a tiny bit of chromatic abberation...!So if Markus' 6" ED will be any good at all, it will be more than enough for visual observing.

In my opinion, the colour problems in refractors have been highly exagerated in the last couple of years. People are more and more aware that a good f8 or so, doublet, is more than enough for "visual" astronomy. Photography is another matter, here we need zero, nada, colour off course. But almost every brand seems to be bringing out triplets, in very heavy tubes, with monster focusers today, as if the whole world is going to do photography. Those triplets do need A LOT of time to cool down, are very heavy and cost a lot of money, are usually very short focused, so very short eyepieces are needed, with their own disadvantages etc...

So yes, finally someone is putting some effort in bringing out some refractors for the visual observer, great! I wish Takahashi and the "others" would do the same....instead of gambling on the photographers only!


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BillP
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5387238 - 08/25/12 11:42 PM

Quote:

Rolando stated in past China will never do such high end optics, today they do it in serial production, so time moves on ...




Statements like these are never true as time changes all things. Given they wanted to be so, it was inevitable that China would become experts in optical manufacturing. I think what is really surprising though, is that they are able to do it at such affordable pricing. This was the real context of the Roland's posts I saw on this topic. I believe he felt that if the Chinese ever did start making optics at high specs with repeatable quality, that the pricing would end up being the same. But that is not what has happened.


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Jan Owen
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: BillP]
      #5387983 - 08/26/12 01:42 PM

Exactly.

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Ambiorix
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5396747 - 08/31/12 01:28 PM

Markus, I hope you will use common sense by supplying a case in which the scope will fit with a 2" diagonal and an eyepiece (1,25" one) attached to it. I find this sooo much easier when setting up in the dark. I just cannot understand why everyone is suppying cases that are exactly the length of the tubes and not one mm longer....once set up, you will have to insert a diagonal an eyepiece...in pitch black darkness.....Think of it and supply something like Televue does...now that's what I call a smart case:) And let's be honest, those extra couple of inches will not make the case more expensive or bulkier at all! And then there is the advantage when you are using a balance sensible mount like a giro. When setting up without a diagonal and eyepiece, the thing might flip over with the lens side crashing into the tripod.....when you set it up without diagonal and eyepiece and first balance the whole chabla and afterwards insert a heavy 2" diagonal the whole chabla will once again crash into the tripod, this time with the focuser side...I know you can lock the axles etc...but it is easier, quicker and safer if the case is long enough to accept the scope with at least the diagonal attached to it, like the ones from Televue...Just my 2 euro-cents

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Cyclop_si
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Ambiorix]
      #5396892 - 08/31/12 03:00 PM

Quote:

Markus, I hope you will use common sense by supplying a case in which the scope will fit with a 2" diagonal and an eyepiece (1,25" one) attached to it. I find this sooo much easier when setting up in the dark. I just cannot understand why everyone is suppying cases that are exactly the length of the tubes and not one mm longer....once set up, you will have to insert a diagonal an eyepiece...in pitch black darkness.....Think of it and supply something like Televue does...now that's what I call a smart case:) And let's be honest, those extra couple of inches will not make the case more expensive or bulkier at all! And then there is the advantage when you are using a balance sensible mount like a giro. When setting up without a diagonal and eyepiece, the thing might flip over with the lens side crashing into the tripod.....when you set it up without diagonal and eyepiece and first balance the whole chabla and afterwards insert a heavy 2" diagonal the whole chabla will once again crash into the tripod, this time with the focuser side...I know you can lock the axles etc...but it is easier, quicker and safer if the case is long enough to accept the scope with at least the diagonal attached to it, like the ones from Televue...Just my 2 euro-cents



I agree with above thinking for relatively small scopes. However for 6" f/8 or larger besats, I prefere to have single most bulkiest/heviest thing in one box, everything else in other box(es).

My opinion is that it is worth to spare a minute or two more for assembly and keep single largest thing as light and managable as posible.

Just my


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Ambiorix
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Cyclop_si]
      #5397718 - 09/01/12 07:14 AM

Cyclop, I see your point, but let me tell you that even the 6" f8 is far from a beast at not even 7 kilograms at the scales! This is not exactly a bulky heavy thing I should think. And the 140 will even be lighter and smaller...
So, both these things are very highly portable.....and are relatively small scopes, especially the 140mm!

So, I donnot agree with you on this, because if Markus would make the' case just as long as the scope, people like yourself, who prefer just the scope in the case are fine, but folks who prefer taking the scope with diagonal and eypiece at once out of the case are not...
If Markus makes the case just a few cm's longer to allow us to insert a diagonal in the scope, should we want to,everybody is happy. If you don't want the diagonal in the scope, just leave it out, and put it in a seperate box, if you really feel you need to carry more different things into the field, why not, your preferance, not mine, if I want it there I insert it in the focuser ..

So, I still feel the case should be long enough to accept the scope with the diagonal inserted! And by the way, the case only needs to be like 5cm's or so longer, so this will not make it less portable at all....


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Ambiorix]
      #5398014 - 09/01/12 12:10 PM

It was difficult to make a decision about the case and whats goes in to keep it compact. finaly we found a great solution that tube with rings, finder bracket and finder fit in without making the case to much bigger.
sorry no place for the stardiagonal. the Stardiagonal is a open optic like eyepieces and most customers I know have the diagonal stored in the eyepiece case.
The idea of taking a scope out of the case and fit it balansed onto the mount does not work, because a light or heavy eyepiece will destroy your calculation, also a focuser need to be racked out when observing stars and will change the balansing point


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5398338 - 09/01/12 03:50 PM

Well in that case I think I do not want the case and will put the scope in a carry bag or something...

I suppose I can buy it without the case?

I just prefer a case which will fit the scope with it's diagonal and a 1,25" eyepiece attached to it, so I can just take the scope out and I'm ready to observe....my preference by far...


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Ambiorix]
      #5398373 - 09/01/12 04:29 PM

I'm completely with you on this, Ambiorix!

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Mark9473]
      #5398582 - 09/01/12 07:25 PM

Since the original direction for this scope was to deliver a scope that was *affordable*, it's beginning to look like other similar situations before, where folks start driving the price ever upward by adding peripheral extras beyond the basic scope.

So, as some folks' eyes may be lighting up with the extras Markus may be coaxed into adding, my interest wanes.

I have no need, or interest, for a case at all, as long as the scope arrives safely.

Just my perspective...

Edited by Jan Owen (09/01/12 07:32 PM)


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5399079 - 09/02/12 03:10 AM

I agree, Jan. I can build a case myself, but I can't build the scope or lens myself. I want apo goodness at an affordable price. I don't need perfection, nor can I afford it.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5399444 - 09/02/12 11:18 AM

The case like the scope is made in china and we required a case on top of double boxed telescope, because from my experience the chinese do not know how to pack a apo well like Takahashi without case. he case is not a big cost factor, so we ship withcase and you can throw it away or use it. important for me is that the scope arrives save to me and to you

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Ambiorix
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5399724 - 09/02/12 02:20 PM

Ah, I should have thought of that myself, thanks for the advice Markus, I'll do as you say then. I'll buy the scope with case and as soon as it arrives at my place, I'll put it out on the street with the garbage....good advice...I hope I won't have to put the scope outside with the garbage instead of the case

No seriously, indeed the scope is the most important thing there is. I sincerely hope that these doublet scopes arrive without dust on the lenses, inside as well as outside:)

All three scopes I got from you were completely full of dust inside as well as outside! One was even so much full of dust inside you could almost not see the surface of the glass:) And that scope also had metal debris inside the tube, which I had to vacuum out. No big deal, I know, just take the lens out and give it a good clean...but still...I'd really wish, for once, receiving a scope from you without too much, if any shopdust at all! That's more important than the darn case



Edited by Ambiorix (09/02/12 02:28 PM)


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Ambiorix]
      #5404259 - 09/05/12 01:57 AM

somebody has to get the dust and metal parts from our shop and since you like it, we decited to give it always to you :-)

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Ambiorix
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5404284 - 09/05/12 02:50 AM

O.k., deal! Just let me know the details...working hours....money...etc .I'm shure we can work something out!

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Traveler
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Ambiorix]
      #5426777 - 09/18/12 06:35 AM

Markus,

Any new status about the 6" ED?


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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Traveler]
      #5427656 - 09/18/12 03:37 PM

The Apo Maker is at the Photokina in Germany, I visited them today and spoke to them today. The new 2.5" focuser is almost finished, we got a sample to test it now with heavy imaging equipment.
They have by now 4 samples , 1 looks good, on 3 others they working on alignment problems.

I told them I need a fully working sample for 10 november for the big telescope show in Tucson, Arizona, where we want to show it to the world first time

it looks like this will work.


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rboeAdministrator

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5427903 - 09/18/12 05:38 PM

If the price is right, you can leave it in Tucson with me.

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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: rboe]
      #5428632 - 09/19/12 01:45 AM

it will be right , below $ 4000 as promissed

see you


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