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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today
      #5463445 - 10/10/12 09:16 AM

against the delivery forecast of TNT the telescope arrived today :-).
A first inspection was done already and some comments send to the manufacturer.

- packing was very good , but need to be changed , because its difficult to use the same packing for us again for repacking after testing everything

- weight of the scope is more then promissed , OTA weights at moment without rings 8.7 kg = 19.14 lbs and with rings and 3" Losmandy like dovetail 10.7 kg = 23.5 lbs. That is still ok, but we found some places where we can safe weight, the rings can be made more light weight, the front tube flange which holds the cell can be made a bit more lightweight. Also the tube and dew shield ismade from 2.5 mm thick alu, we hope they can go down to 1.5 mm or 2.0 mm , so we can come close to the forecast they made.

Backfocuse on the telescope behind 2" adapter when focuser is fully racked in was agreed on 180 mm, they did insteed 207 mm. We like to leave it this way, bigger backfocuse helps for binoviewers and also to use our Riccardi Apo Reducer/Flattener. However we request therefore a 2.5" screw extension 2 inch long

Overal fit and finish is superb, no improvement needet.

Coating: the objective have the best Multicoating I have seen from any chinese or taiwanese manufacturer , this one is at the level of famous US apo makers, wow, that was a big surprise that they could do what I wanted :-)

Colorcorrection of the optics: Our LZOS/Riccardi 6"F/8 doublet is diffrent designed then all other doublet apos. The LZOS is designed to be better at the blue end which is easy visible for human eye and worse at the red end where human eyes are less sensitive. So the LZOS/Riccardi show zero chromatical aberration In-focuse ( sharp image), such colorfree image you know only from high end FPL53 triplet apos in-focuse.

Our new Chinese FK61 doublet ED is designed like all other doublet apos, diffrent balansed. With a 4 mm eyepiece = 300 power I see nice clear white airydisc with a little blue-purple , like on any other doublet Apos, I know very many customers who report to see no such left chromatical aberration, so I talk here from a very sensitive and ritical point of view. The colorcorrection I see right now at day time is far better then i expected from the design.


Today w ehave sunny clear sky, so i will take the scope home and test it tonight on stars, deep sky andjupiter and report about my views tomorrow.

Weather Forecast is good, so my company imager will take the scope home tomorrow for doing some test shoots , which we will publish here in some days.

After that I pack it and ship it to Mr. Rohr, that he can test it interferometrical , so we know how it compares to other ED doublets.

Delivery:
APM 152 mm f/1200 mm ED doublet Apo ( FK61 + Lanthanium element) fully multicoated. Delivery including 2.5" rotation focuser with fine focuse, adapter APM 2"/1.25" Deluxe, set of Tube rings with transporting handle, 3" Losmandy Like dovetail, 50 mm finder, Transporting case

Option: Interferometrical Testreport for little extra money.

Our Price for US Buyers include door to door delivery and insurance US $ 3,990.-

first real pictuzres:
http://www.apm-telescopes.net/en/content.html?coID=24
scrioll down to header: Apochromatical Refractors, 2-Lenses, opt. Tube:

http://www.apm-telescopes.net/media/images/lagerliste/popup/2956/152ED%20OTA%20real.jpg
http://www.apm-telescopes.net/media/images/lagerliste/popup/2956/152%20ED%20Logo.jpg
http://www.apm-telescopes.net/media/images/lagerliste/popup/2956/152%20ED%20front%20lens.jpg
http://www.apm-telescopes.net/media/images/lagerliste/popup/2956/152%20ED%20adjusting%20cell%20side.jpg
http://www.apm-telescopes.net/media/images/lagerliste/popup/2956/152Ed%20transporting%20box%20inside.jpg
http://www.apm-telescopes.net/media/images/lagerliste/popup/2956/152Ed%20transporting%20box%20outside%20unpacked.jpg




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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5463447 - 10/10/12 09:17 AM




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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5463450 - 10/10/12 09:18 AM

case




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Gord
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/06/04

Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5463455 - 10/10/12 09:21 AM

Nice! Sharp looking scope there Markus!

That's interesting how the lens cell is done with 3 lobes. Are the collimation points behind the lobes or down in the open areas?

Clear skies,


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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5463460 - 10/10/12 09:23 AM

at arrival , packing as it came and me :-)



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Catapoman
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 06/06/03

Loc: VA
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5463465 - 10/10/12 09:27 AM

That is a nice looking project you have going, Markus! Best wishes to you and those who will be fortunate to get one.

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skybsd
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/01/08

Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5463482 - 10/10/12 09:37 AM

Quote:







Fantastic news, Markus Great to see samples coming through!

Question - is it supposed to say "APO" on the dewshield?

Thanks for sharing the news with us

Regards,

skybsd


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RodgerHouTex
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 06/02/09

Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: skybsd]
      #5463504 - 10/10/12 10:00 AM

That is one beautiful scope Markus. Congratulations on producing such a marvelous scope for a great price. I just may have to buy one of those.

Nice work.


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Traveler
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 08/19/07

Loc: The Netherlands
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5463507 - 10/10/12 10:02 AM

There it is! Great pictures Markus.

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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: skybsd]
      #5463513 - 10/10/12 10:04 AM

Hi skybsd

its the new way to write APO with modern letters, yes :-)


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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5463519 - 10/10/12 10:10 AM

thanks for the kind words.

I believe we have here a record here. First discussions we have had in april this year , thats 6 month from that date till delivery of first production sample, wow


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t.r.
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5463535 - 10/10/12 10:19 AM

Joe Bergeron is going to have a kitten... "It's apo"!
Nice looking scope Markus, the Volkswagon apo! When do you expect to get any in quantity to fill orders? Any designs for a 7"?


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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: t.r.]
      #5463578 - 10/10/12 10:40 AM

I believe the first run should arrive around January or february 2013. If they are quicker , like chriostmas time, well, then it would be a nice positive surprise.

After the sales started and I get overal positive feedback, then we start with the next version and will discuss that in detail again, before we fully start


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RAKing
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/28/07

Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5463589 - 10/10/12 10:48 AM

Markus,

That is great news!

I was leaning toward the LZOS/Riccardi, but this one looks beautiful. You have every reason to be proud.

Please let us know how the testing goes.

BTW - my Leica zoom arrived in perfect condition. Thanks!

Ron


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Ambiorix
member


Reged: 05/01/11

Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5464047 - 10/10/12 03:36 PM

Looks good, and as far as I can see no shopdust on the lens this time....good evolution

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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: Ambiorix]
      #5464115 - 10/10/12 04:38 PM

told you before, shop dust cost extra money and we do it only for special customers :-)

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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: Ambiorix]
      #5464132 - 10/10/12 04:55 PM

First Starlight.

Its 10.30 pm in Germany, Jupiter started to raise, will watch it later.

So far I did a bit startesting , double stars and looking for chromatical aberration.

chromaticle aberration: coming from infocuse to focuse, you see the typical deep blue fringe, which gets fully absent in-focuse. The highest power for this test was a Ethos 3.7 mm = 325 power, twice the aperature, normaly called maximum usefull power. Vega is infocuse colorfree

coming from outside of focuse to in-focuse, you see the typical light green fringe, which getting absent excactly in focuse.

I have no LZOS 152 doublet by hand to do side by side, but infocuse colorcorrection looks pretty same colorfree.

you can rate the colorcorrection from my memory at least as good as the chinese made 127 mm F7.5 triplet ED, thats maybe because of the mating glas which is lanthanium. Mr. Rohr should be able to compare that better with printed numbers, but my human eye is happy to see infocuse no colorhalo.

Deep Sky:
- Dumbbell nebulae looks nice and contrasty
- M13 shows nice resolving
- M57, Ring Nebulae show nice contrast
- NGC 869 & NGC 884: A Double Open Cluster show refractor like diamonds
- Epsilon Lyrae show nice clean splittet double with faint diffraction ring at 325 power
- epsilon-lyrae, double star show clean and easy splitting

Jupiter comes later.

Startest looks ok, not perfect as in LZOS , but good like other accepted chinese doublets.Maybe later in the night the seeing gets better than it is now to get a more critical opinion

overal impression of the chromatical correction is better then I hoped for, from the optical design.


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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5464221 - 10/10/12 06:18 PM

Its now 15 minutes past midnight, clouds rolling in, seeing is lousy, so I have to give up.

Last view in Jupiter with Leica Zoom at 135 looks perfect white , no yellowish casting or whatever. With 4.7 mm ethos , I can see at low jupiter the atmosphäric dispersion , but still white jupiter disc with all belts and stuff, but not worth to continue now

Maybe tomorrow morning , will see

good night


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rboeAdministrator

*****

Reged: 03/16/02

Loc: Phx, AZ
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5464237 - 10/10/12 06:33 PM

Meh. Best dang glass in the world or the finest mirror and seeing still rules. Perhaps Tucson will provide you with better seeing.

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Jeff B
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/30/06

Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5464452 - 10/10/12 09:26 PM

Quote:

Its now 15 minutes past midnight, clouds rolling in, seeing is lousy, so I have to give up.

Last view in Jupiter with Leica Zoom at 135 looks perfect white , no yellowish casting or whatever. With 4.7 mm ethos , I can see at low jupiter the atmosphäric dispersion , but still white jupiter disc with all belts and stuff, but not worth to continue now

Maybe tomorrow morning , will see

good night




I'm smiling Markus. You remind me of an excited kid with a new toy.

Jeff


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DavidNealMinnick
sage
*****

Reged: 03/06/06

Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: rboe]
      #5464555 - 10/10/12 10:38 PM

Quote:

Meh.




Ron, what is meh?


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IDONTSEEIT
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 05/04/03

Loc: NYC
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: DavidNealMinnick]
      #5464625 - 10/10/12 11:20 PM

Self-explanatory, just repeat it a few times

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rboeAdministrator

*****

Reged: 03/16/02

Loc: Phx, AZ
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: IDONTSEEIT]
      #5465071 - 10/11/12 09:57 AM

Expression of resignation; more or less, with a dose of frustration, as well as signaling the issue is just a small irratation in the grand scheme of things. Varies a bit with use and the company you keep.

On the other hand, I'm keen on seeing this big gun in person.


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5466808 - 10/12/12 12:24 PM

Exceptionally nice, in the flesh, Markus.

Much, much nicer than the CAD drawings suggested.

I think you'll do well with them.

Regards,

Jim


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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5467067 - 10/12/12 04:45 PM

thanks for the kind words

more news:
it was raining all day long, so we packed the scope to ship it now to Mr. Rohr.

The manufacturer replied to my weight issues.
The tube wall thickness is not 2.5 mm as we measured, its 2 mm only plus paint which adds up to 2.5 mm.
They could try to mashine tubes to 1.5 mm, but the are worried about flexibility, so I commit to them to keep the 2 mm

the backfocuse we measured he with 207 mm is due installed 2.5" Starlight focuse,r the original focuser is a bit longer and has the agreed 180 mm backfocuse

they will check and do a bit weight reduction on tube rings and cell holiding ring, sO I get we may nail it down with rings and dovetail to roundabout 10 kg, which is more then original thought, but really at the low end compare to any other 6" apo.


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dscarpa
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/15/08

Loc: San Diego Ca.
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5467119 - 10/12/12 05:18 PM

It's a very good looking scope! At 10 kg with rings and dovetail I think you've done a admirable job as far keeping the weight down. I'm interested. David

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SteveG
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/27/06

Loc: Seattle, WA
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: dscarpa]
      #5467391 - 10/12/12 08:53 PM

Yes - 23.5 lbs is quite good at 6" Scope looks awesome too. Can't wait to hear the reports!

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tomharri
sage
*****

Reged: 09/19/08

Loc: USA
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: SteveG]
      #5471240 - 10/15/12 10:37 AM

Dear Markus, I've bought a few items directly from Germany under $300 and everything went alright. But $2000 for the lens in cell- will there be a customs charge on usa end? Need to know, thanks, Tom.

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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: tomharri]
      #5471803 - 10/15/12 03:59 PM

Hi Tom

my prices are US retail Prices !!!!

Its means , you pay No Dutie on Top, we cover that on this 152 ED Apo program


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skybsd
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/01/08

Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5472877 - 10/16/12 08:32 AM

Quote:

Hi Tom

my prices are US retail Prices !!!!

Its means , you pay No Dutie on Top, we cover that on this 152 ED Apo program




Hi Markus,
When do you expect to have the optical report of the scope back from Rohr?

Thanks.

Regards,

skybsd


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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: skybsd]
      #5475478 - 10/17/12 05:10 PM

A first Test was performed by Mr. Rohr and a problem in the cell was found. The problem was reported to the manufacturer and they going to fix it. This problem can introduce a astigmatism, therefore this objective need the new reworked cell, which should be ready soon.

The spherical correction of the las was tested with 1/5.7 wavefront p.t.v., 1/29 wavefront RMS and 95.4 % Strehl...in summarize better I promote and offer.
in Double Pass sheme at 666 power Mr. Rohr found a astigmatism, maybe invisible at real sky, but not accepted by me, therefore we going to improve something on the cell.

Mr. Rohr:
This is the number of secondary spectrum, this means a normal ED-APO
Focusshift :
from green to blue 0.031 mm
from green to yellow 0.011 mm
from green to red 0.0200 mm

W-blue 0.4864
W-yellow: 0.1574
W-red:2.8613
W-total: 1.6739



Mr. Rohr recomment to increase spacing by 0.1 mm

Please accept that we not going to publish such a report, because we do not accept it this way. If w epublish it, some special people will use the published report to state it as a reference, which it will not be, since w enot going to sell it with this problem.

Of course I could be silent and answere to asking customers Mr. Rohr need more time, but w ehave been very open on this project from beginning on and we continue to be open and if the very first testing smaple show a problem, which we do not accept, then we say it and fix it, till we have the level, we need for selling.

We have big hopes that the new cell arrive before departure to USA to the Show next month in Tucson.

First summarize: colorcorrection and optical quality is better then we expected, the cell problem we get fixed.

The manufacturer know we not going to work on each single telescope to fix a problem for the serial production, so we push him to get it done right for the serial production and he cooperates very well so far and quickly.


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skybsd
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/01/08

Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5475533 - 10/17/12 05:39 PM

Quote:

A first Test was performed by Mr. Rohr and a problem in the cell was found. The problem was reported to the manufacturer and they going to fix it. This problem can introduce a astigmatism, therefore this objective need the new reworked cell, which should be ready soon.

The spherical correction of the las was tested with 1/5.7 wavefront p.t.v., 1/29 wavefront RMS and 95.4 % Strehl...in summarize better I promote and offer.
in Double Pass sheme at 666 power Mr. Rohr found a astigmatism, maybe invisible at real sky, but not accepted by me, therefore we going to improve something on the cell.

Mr. Rohr:
This is the number of secondary spectrum, this means a normal ED-APO
Focusshift :
from green to blue 0.031 mm
from green to yellow 0.011 mm
from green to red 0.0200 mm

W-blue 0.4864
W-yellow: 0.1574
W-red:2.8613
W-total: 1.6739



Mr. Rohr recomment to increase spacing by 0.1 mm

Please accept that we not going to publish such a report, because we do not accept it this way. If w epublish it, some special people will use the published report to state it as a reference, which it will not be, since w enot going to sell it with this problem.

Of course I could be silent and answere to asking customers Mr. Rohr need more time, but w ehave been very open on this project from beginning on and we continue to be open and if the very first testing smaple show a problem, which we do not accept, then we say it and fix it, till we have the level, we need for selling.

We have big hopes that the new cell arrive before departure to USA to the Show next month in Tucson.

First summarize: colorcorrection and optical quality is better then we expected, the cell problem we get fixed.

The manufacturer know we not going to work on each single telescope to fix a problem for the serial production, so we push him to get it done right for the serial production and he cooperates very well so far and quickly.




Hi Markus,
Thanks so much for the open and forthcoming information on what's been done so far.,

I completely understand your weariness of the irresponsible amongst us.., I only ask as I understand that the testing was a step you have before general availability of the scope, and wanted to see how this may or may not affect your timelines to have scopes ready..,

Much appreciated.., Hoping to see this get out the door..,

Regards,

skybsd


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sg80
super member


Reged: 07/29/07

Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: skybsd]
      #5475855 - 10/17/12 08:54 PM

Keep up the good work. and thank you for keeping us in the loop.

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Jim Curry
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/29/07

Loc: STL
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: sg80]
      #5475932 - 10/17/12 09:42 PM

Impressive project you're bringing to fruition, Markus. Nice to see the face behind the emails, too.

Jim


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t.r.
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: Jim Curry]
      #5476485 - 10/18/12 07:45 AM

Thanks for the transparency with the project and hope you see it through to a level of acceptance. I look forward to trying one of these scope.

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Jeff B
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/30/06

Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5476599 - 10/18/12 09:38 AM

Excellent Markus.

For a small fee, I will dispose of that completely unacceptable first sample for you. And I'll pay shipping.

Jeff


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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: Jeff B]
      #5476612 - 10/18/12 09:51 AM

Hi Jeff

I used this first sample under real sky and from my experience with customers buing Apos all around the world, my guess is that more then 80% of all apo buyers would not notice any problem and would be very happy with this sample. I have seen many apos sold with real problems on the market where people has been very happy with it.
However this one has my name on the dew shield, so it will better be very good :-)

I offered yesterday to the manufacturer to buy a airline ticket, fly to china and inspect the first production run of 50 to 100 pc personaly with them on here high quality collimator and on here green interferometer, this cost a little money and some days time, but maybe save me a lot work at home and return shipping cost, in case they do something wrong in the serial production.

As an additional quality controle step, I insisted now to get for each one a interferometrical testreport. Then we will retest some samples in Germany with Mr. Rohr , till we reached the same testing level and I can be shure I can trust in such reports on future shipments. Once and a while we will repead such a testrun.

We did that 12 years ago with LZOS and it worked out very well


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WarrenS
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/04/08

Loc: Orange County New York
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5477154 - 10/18/12 02:55 PM

Wow Markus, with all the effort you're putting in to maintain quality, you're going to have one of the best scopes out there for the money. Can't go wrong when you have a Markus Ludes, Herr Rohr, and a Cloudy Nights members collaboration! I'd still need a loan to buy the scope though!

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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: WarrenS]
      #5477326 - 10/18/12 04:16 PM

Warren

this is a expensive project I going to run alone and so its a very big investment which does not allow to fail due quality problems, thats why we handle it with the same quality controle as we handle our APM-LZOS Apo Line > Cheap in Price, not in Quality is the motto and its a project started with CN readers ...we do not want to disappoint them :-), thats why


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Joe Aguiar
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 02/10/07

Loc: none of your buss
Re: New 6"F/8 APM ED arrived today new [Re: Jeff B]
      #6131076 - 10/11/13 01:00 PM

Our Price for US Buyers include door to door delivery and insurance US $ 3,990.-
what you be the dilvery to CDN adrress all in including custums duties etc
AND
are you planning on sending any of these to a canadian dealers?


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