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don clement
Vendor (Clement Focuser)


Reged: 02/02/11

Loc: Running Springs, California
Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope
      #5917315 - 06/12/13 04:35 PM

Last month a Clement focuser (3" Bellerophon III model with RoboFocus motor and controller) was used with FocusMax software to successfully autofocus and image using an Apogee D7 camera at prime focus F/3.3 on the Palomar Hale 200 inch telescope. The focuser was mounted just above the Wynne corrector and there was very little back focus available, also travel of 25mm was required. The ultra-low profile [1"] and long travel [1.25"] of the Clement Focuser met these stringent requirements. An ultralow adapter allowed the Apogee D7 camera to be mounted flush with the Clement Focuser top plate. Shown below is the Clement Focuser in the 200" prime focus cage.



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don clement
Vendor (Clement Focuser)


Reged: 02/02/11

Loc: Running Springs, California
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: don clement]
      #5917317 - 06/12/13 04:37 PM



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don clement
Vendor (Clement Focuser)


Reged: 02/02/11

Loc: Running Springs, California
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: don clement]
      #5917329 - 06/12/13 04:45 PM

M51 taken with Apogee A7 camera on Clement Focuser at prime focus F/3.3 Hale 200inch Telescope



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Billydee
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 01/23/08

Loc: Winter Haven, FL
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: don clement]
      #5917366 - 06/12/13 05:09 PM

Don,

Must be nice to have a 200 inch scope. I guess size does matter !

Very nice, Bill


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don clement
Vendor (Clement Focuser)


Reged: 02/02/11

Loc: Running Springs, California
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: Billydee]
      #5917387 - 06/12/13 05:25 PM

Quote:


Must be nice to have a 200 inch scope. I guess size does matter !






George Ellery Hale also thought size mattered.


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Mike B
Starstruck
*****

Reged: 04/06/05

Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: don clement]
      #5917585 - 06/12/13 07:36 PM

Gorgeous shot!

I saw that from my backyard. Well, uhh, i "saw" it... didn't look remotely LIKE that.

Inquiring mimes wanna know- what was the exposure time on that shot? How 'bout max FoV capture?


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frolinmod
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/06/10

Loc: Southern California
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: Mike B]
      #5917614 - 06/12/13 07:52 PM

Don, you've hit the big time. Big telescope that is.

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don clement
Vendor (Clement Focuser)


Reged: 02/02/11

Loc: Running Springs, California
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: frolinmod]
      #5917627 - 06/12/13 08:04 PM

Nobody else's focuser could meet the requirements of one inch profile with inch and quarter focuser travel and no part of the focuser protruding below the base that would contact the Wynne corrector.

Don Clement


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Pinbout
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: nj
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: don clement]
      #5917631 - 06/12/13 08:06 PM

Congrats on such a high profile job.

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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: don clement]
      #5918242 - 06/13/13 06:14 AM

Quote:

Nobody else's focuser could meet the requirements of one inch profile with inch and quarter focuser travel and no part of the focuser protruding below the base that would contact the Wynne corrector.

Don Clement




Don:

That is totally awesome...

Jon


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Raginar
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5918828 - 06/13/13 01:44 PM

That's awesome Don! Congrat's!

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mattflastro
Vendor - Astrovideo Systems


Reged: 07/31/09

Loc: Brevard County , FL
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: don clement]
      #5918937 - 06/13/13 02:45 PM

Quote:

Nobody else's focuser could meet the requirements of one inch profile with inch and quarter focuser travel and no part of the focuser protruding below the base that would contact the Wynne corrector.

Don Clement




That scope looks huge and it's "only" a 5m . Did you assist with the installation ?


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RAKing
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/28/07

Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: don clement]
      #5920094 - 06/14/13 07:33 AM

Needless to say - WOW!

Congrats on a great installation and a remarkable image.

Ron


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herrointment
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/12/11

Loc: North of Hwy. 64
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: RAKing]
      #5923699 - 06/16/13 12:28 PM

That's one enormous feather for your hat.

Congratulations!


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rainycityastro
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 03/29/10

Loc: Seattle, WA
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: herrointment]
      #5932390 - 06/21/13 12:49 AM

Don, that's one phenomenal image with a very impressive focuser (I have one) I'd love to know how long that image was. Wont be surprised at all if the integration times weren't that long.

I met the gentleman in the picture at AIC 2012. He works at Palomar and is an accomplished imager.

Regards,
--Ram


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orlyandico
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: rainycityastro]
      #5932496 - 06/21/13 03:20 AM

that image is probably a few minutes. what i've seen from the literature is that most professional observations with ground-based telescopes (which are almost all spectroscopic) are with short (<10 minute) exposures. they're going for a huge number of observations, so they need to keep them short.

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ScottAz
Fleet Navigator
*****

Reged: 02/06/05

Loc: Kenosha, Wisconsin
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5935395 - 06/22/13 09:30 PM

That is totaly cool!

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faackanders2
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/28/11

Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: don clement]
      #5935520 - 06/22/13 10:52 PM

Quote:

M51 taken with Apogee A7 camera on Clement Focuser at prime focus F/3.3 Hale 200inch Telescope






WOW! Is this more detailed than Hubble?


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don clement
Vendor (Clement Focuser)


Reged: 02/02/11

Loc: Running Springs, California
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5936451 - 06/23/13 01:57 PM

Exposure time is mostly dependent on F ratio, not the size of the scope. The Hale 200" at prime focus is a fast F/3.3. See Dave Erickson's http://hbastro.com/FastAstrographConsideratoins.pdf. The amazing thing about the M51 image to me is that it was taken during the Full moon.

BTW Dave Erickson has four of my focusers including his 8" F/2.6 astrograph that is focused by moving a 10" asphere mirror using a Clement center drive focuser.

Don Clement


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Chucke
member


Reged: 03/12/10

Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: don clement]
      #5938334 - 06/24/13 04:34 PM

Hi Don,

Do you know what project this was for? I am curious because I recently read they were using CCDAutoPilot with the 200" and having some difficulty specifying a long enough focal length.

Chuck


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don clement
Vendor (Clement Focuser)


Reged: 02/02/11

Loc: Running Springs, California
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: Chucke]
      #5938645 - 06/24/13 08:10 PM

Chuck,

I don't about CCDAutoPilot being used during this project. I do know that FocusMax http://www.focusmax.org/ software was used to autofocus the 200" at prime focus F/3.3 with my focuser and was told that this was a "HUGE success".

Don Clement


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Dave O
sage
*****

Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Sri Lanka
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: don clement]
      #5939093 - 06/25/13 02:41 AM

Wonderful Don! You've certainly earned some bragging rights with this one! Well done!

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SGT500
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/03/06

Loc: Sarasota, Florida
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: Dave O]
      #5939377 - 06/25/13 09:34 AM

To all asking about exposure time, this one was 20 minutes of exposure in 60s subs.

Edited by SGT500 (06/25/13 09:35 AM)


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rainycityastro
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 03/29/10

Loc: Seattle, WA
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: SGT500]
      #5939866 - 06/25/13 02:14 PM

Wow, I'd never have guessed 60s subs at F 3.3 was sufficient!

Sal, do you know how flats were done with that giant scope? Any other information on how the image was processed?
Any unique challenges with processing that image?


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Ira
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/22/10

Loc: Mitzpe Ramon, Israel
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: rainycityastro]
      #5940457 - 06/25/13 08:49 PM

This is just the coolest thing ever, and on such a legendary scope. Hope you'll write an article about it.

/Ira


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SGT500
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/03/06

Loc: Sarasota, Florida
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: Ira]
      #5940541 - 06/25/13 09:46 PM

Ram, The data was plentiful even with 60s subs! I suspect anything more would have blown out the core.
As for processing, i started out in Pixinsight by doing Deconvolution, Histogram transformations, HDRMultiscale, and LHE. Then transferred into photoshop for final contrast adjustments, and some layer masking. Processing was actually really easy because the data was so excellent.
I can't answer your question on flats, I dont know. sorry.


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orlyandico
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: SGT500]
      #5942437 - 06/27/13 02:11 AM

so any f3.3 scope with those skies should get that type of exposure at 60s?

(i know the detail won't be there due to the much smaller focal length)


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SGT500
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/03/06

Loc: Sarasota, Florida
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5942682 - 06/27/13 08:49 AM

I don't think so. I assume that the light gathering ability of the 200" played a huge role in the luminosity of the image.

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Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: SGT500]
      #5943696 - 06/27/13 07:38 PM

f/3.3 is f/3.3, regardless of the aperture. The level of illumination per pixel on a CCD is identical. But the bigger the scope, the bigger the image scale.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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JoseBorrero
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/04/09

Loc: Puerto Rico Island
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5943772 - 06/27/13 08:29 PM

surface area of the imaging train change, focal ratio is a ratio. for ex. 1:2 ratio, for every 1 you will get 2

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NickK-UK
super member


Reged: 07/28/12

Loc: UK
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: JoseBorrero]
      #5944239 - 06/28/13 05:28 AM

Very nice - image is showing zero tilt as you'd expect!

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don clement
Vendor (Clement Focuser)


Reged: 02/02/11

Loc: Running Springs, California
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: NickK-UK]
      #5962373 - 07/09/13 03:20 PM

"An echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand"

~Pink Floyd


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Tom McDonald
sage
*****

Reged: 12/19/06

Loc: No where man!
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: don clement]
      #5970777 - 07/14/13 05:10 PM

I'm in awe............

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Tom McDonald
sage
*****

Reged: 12/19/06

Loc: No where man!
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: Tom McDonald]
      #5970780 - 07/14/13 05:12 PM

And your taste in music is impeccable!

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Jeff Phinney
super member


Reged: 02/20/13

Loc: CA
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: Chucke]
      #6049037 - 08/27/13 03:04 PM

Quote:

Hi Don,

Do you know what project this was for? .....

Chuck




I'm kinda curious myself self since the Large Format Camera(LFC) has been in operation on the 200" for almost 13 years, covering a third of a degree at PF. What was the goal of this exercise?

Edited by Jeff Phinney (08/27/13 04:05 PM)


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jgraham
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: Jeff Phinney]
      #6049854 - 08/27/13 11:13 PM

Now that's too cool for scool! Amazing!

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don clement
Vendor (Clement Focuser)


Reged: 02/02/11

Loc: Running Springs, California
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: Jeff Phinney]
      #6049892 - 08/27/13 11:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Hi Don,

Do you know what project this was for? .....

Chuck




I'm kinda curious myself self since the Large Format Camera(LFC) has been in operation on the 200" for almost 13 years, covering a third of a degree at PF. What was the goal of this exercise?




My understanding was that the existing camera was focused only manually and this was an engineering exercise to test the feasibility of autofocus. Steve Brady of Focusmax http://www.focusmax.org/ came out last May for the test.

Don


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PaulGardner
journeyman


Reged: 07/08/13

Loc: California
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: Chucke]
      #6084476 - 09/16/13 06:27 PM

The camera was an Apogee U16M. The subframes for the shot were under 20 seconds. Total integrated exposure was roughly 20 minutes for the luminance channel.

The project was to determine the exact distance from the prime focus pedestal to the focal point of the telescope with and without the wynn corrector.

I was using CCDAP to do some image quality assessment and did run into some limitations with inputting focal length. I actually don't recall what I did to get around that.


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PaulGardner
journeyman


Reged: 07/08/13

Loc: California
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: PaulGardner]
      #6084483 - 09/16/13 06:30 PM

For flats we have several different lamps in the prime focus cage the illuminate a large section of the dome that is painted white. Basic dome flats.

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PaulGardner
journeyman


Reged: 07/08/13

Loc: California
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: PaulGardner]
      #6084495 - 09/16/13 06:41 PM

Also seeing that night was a crisp 0.86 arcs.

Big Thanks to Don for lending me the focuser (I am actually buying one for permanent use when I do engineering), Sal for processing my images and Steve Brady for coming out and working magic with his software to autofocus the 200" in 90 seconds flat.


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PGW Steve
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/03/06

Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: PaulGardner]
      #6084954 - 09/16/13 10:48 PM

Quote:

Steve Brady for coming out and working magic with his software to autofocus the 200" in 90 seconds flat.





Incredible!! Thank you for sharing!


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Jim Curry
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/29/07

Loc: STL
Re: Clement Focuser on Hale 200 inch Telescope new [Re: PGW Steve]
      #6197722 - 11/16/13 07:54 AM

What a story. What a project. Congratulations Don, Paul and the rest of the team!

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