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General Astronomy >> Outreach

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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
*****

Reged: 11/17/05

Loc: Always Dark skies of Belfair W...
Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: Ziggy943]
      #1398911 - 02/02/07 11:27 AM

Quote:

I am going to disagree with the smaller is better opinions.

I think large attention getting scopes are best for the public. They show objects the way they should be seen and in a way no smaller telescope can.

For over 20 years a hauled the 9" refractor to hundreds of star parties. A 9" refractor on a GEM has a presence, it is a draw. Many of our star parties were cunducted on grocery store parking lots. Passerbys notice a big telescope, that looks like a telescope, when it stick 14 feet into the air. It gets their attention, and then delivers.




If you're selling a particular scope, smaller is probably better, since no one on earth(except you) can offord the 9" Clark, when starting out. But to keep with the thread theme, a big Refractor mounted high, imposes an impression that *THIS* is astronomy. Everyone is drawn to big, be it a Newt, a Schmidt, or from my own experiences, a large, very familiar looking Refractor. It is the refractor that has been impregnated into the minds of the general public. From historical images, to cartoons, the refractor stands out in the public eye as what a telescope looks like. Now as the public is educated by all of us, they learn that other large designs are just as impressive.

Big...always draws attention. I have been at gatherings were some body said, *Look at the telescope..(Pointing at a refractor)..*what is that*..(pointing at a shrowded Dob). It all depends on the education/perception of the crowd.

Rob(Of course..I'm probably a total idiot)


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MacRoberts
sage


Reged: 08/25/05

Loc: Redlands, CA
Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: rwiederrich]
      #1555300 - 04/20/07 02:46 AM

Great thread!

Outreach is such fun, and so important. I have only one scope, and found myself choking a bit when the inevitable question about it's cost came up (see sig line).

Here's what works for me. I provide handouts for anyone who shows interest beyond the casual. The handouts provide pointers to CN and a few other well-chosen sites, make a few recommendations for good starter scopes that won't break the bank, and identify local clubs.

The handouts don't replace responding individually to interested attendees, but serve as a way to memorialize typical conversations in a meaningful way. I always stress that the views through recommended starter scopes will often be as good as those through my setup, sometimes better, for the beginner.

I loved the suggestion about bringing Orion catalogs and the like to events - a great supplement for the interested.


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Kim Miau
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/17/06

Loc: Malaysia
Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: MacRoberts]
      #1559554 - 04/22/07 11:47 AM

I bring my 8" LX90 to the public and they are amazed too. My experience told me that we better setup our scope half to one hour earlier than the event time so that you can figure out almost every glitch before they turn out just like what I had yesterday night. The wire from the power tank to the scope is loosen and made the scope suddenly out of power when it slew to a certain direction.

I am quite sure that simple mounted telescope (altazimuth or dobsonian) is a great option when it comes to public outreach so that people will not be affected by the "no, I don't have the buck to get this monster" thinking.


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RRaubach
AstroCowboy
*****

Reged: 01/26/05

Loc: Douglas (Converse County),WY
Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: Kim Miau]
      #1682321 - 06/25/07 01:07 PM

I just picked up on this thread--a really great question! I formerly took my TOA 130 (eq mounted, of course), and it was very popular. It really *looked the way a telescope was supposed to look*, according to those who tried it out. I have switched now to taking a 12.5" Discovery Dob, so no one has to use a ladder. The real thing, for public outreach, is to make the object viewed look attractive in the scope being used!

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square_peg
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 03/26/04

Loc: Maple Valley, WA
Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: RRaubach]
      #1683703 - 06/26/07 12:41 AM

With a small crowd I like a dob. Spend a little time showing each attendee how to center an object in the finder and then hand track it at the eyepiece leaves them feeling well rewarded for attending.

With larger crowds a midsized tracking scope is best. One or two steps up a kitchen stool with hand grips works fine for kids. Instructing them to hold onto the stool keeps fingers away from eyepieces, too.


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RogerRZ
Whatta you lookin' at?
*****

Reged: 01/09/06

Loc: West Collette, NB, Canada
Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: square_peg]
      #1734977 - 07/23/07 08:40 PM

This past weekend, I (along with a bunch of other members of our RASC chapter) did a bit of a camping/observing weekend. In exchange for sharing views through our scopes to the public in the campground, we got to camp for free. Good deal for us! I came to the conclusion that a big honking newt on a chrome plated mount pleases the crowds in the daytime almost as much as at night.

Rotating rings work well, too. I'd group the people in the lineup according to their height, and reset the tube for each height group. It was also the first time I'd done outreach using a tracking mount. I won't ever use an undriven telescope for this purpose again. It's great to have a dozen people in a row look at an object without having to say "hold on a second while I recenter the scope".

I find this gets annoying quickly when showing off Jupiter at 250x...


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Kim Miau
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/17/06

Loc: Malaysia
Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: RogerRZ]
      #1735800 - 07/24/07 07:54 AM

Quote:

This past weekend, I (along with a bunch of other members of our RASC chapter) did a bit of a camping/observing weekend. In exchange for sharing views through our scopes to the public in the campground, we got to camp for free. Good deal for us! I came to the conclusion that a big honking newt on a chrome plated mount pleases the crowds in the daytime almost as much as at night.

Rotating rings work well, too. I'd group the people in the lineup according to their height, and reset the tube for each height group. It was also the first time I'd done outreach using a tracking mount. I won't ever use an undriven telescope for this purpose again. It's great to have a dozen people in a row look at an object without having to say "hold on a second while I recenter the scope".

I find this gets annoying quickly when showing off Jupiter at 250x...



Do you guys have a SCT there?


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RogerRZ
Whatta you lookin' at?
*****

Reged: 01/09/06

Loc: West Collette, NB, Canada
Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: Kim Miau]
      #1735917 - 07/24/07 09:31 AM

Quote:

Quote:

This past weekend, I (along with a bunch of other members of our RASC chapter) did a bit of a camping/observing weekend. In exchange for sharing views through our scopes to the public in the campground, we got to camp for free. Good deal for us! I came to the conclusion that a big honking newt on a chrome plated mount pleases the crowds in the daytime almost as much as at night.

Rotating rings work well, too. I'd group the people in the lineup according to their height, and reset the tube for each height group. It was also the first time I'd done outreach using a tracking mount. I won't ever use an undriven telescope for this purpose again. It's great to have a dozen people in a row look at an object without having to say "hold on a second while I recenter the scope".

I find this gets annoying quickly when showing off Jupiter at 250x...



Do you guys have a SCT there?





Yes, we had an older orange tube, fork mounted C8.


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Jay_Bird
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/04/06

Loc: USA
Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: RogerRZ]
      #1736010 - 07/24/07 10:22 AM

An example of an older thread I'm glad to read after some new input bumps it...

Agreed about need for driven mount greater with larger crowd - a C8 for Mercury transit at school was effortless for > 100 viewers and I didn't have to re-center for each one and those who wanted more time at the eyepiece weren't racing the earth.

Best use of a scope may not be what you'd think - in years past using a Dob to pull in lots of light from earthlit portion of moon at dusk met with many 'wow' responses. I brought Dob to urban outreach and left it at home for longer trips to dark skies.

The moment to recenter a dob offers a chance to say a word about the view someone is about to see. With the C8 I give a 5-second tip on eye position depending on eyepiece, and what's in view.

Being accessible, which is as much the astronomer as the scope, always helps. Lastly, no-one was ever intimidated to walk up to me with my Nighthawk, although I quickly learned to stick to showpiece deep sky objects at 80mm and not try to share galaxy quests that make me excited to detect objects that wouldn't wow a first time viewer.


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Kim Miau
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/17/06

Loc: Malaysia
Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: RogerRZ]
      #1736121 - 07/24/07 11:17 AM

Did the people like the SCT too?

Franky speaking, computerised telescopes do really come in handy when we do public outreach. However, the only disadvantage would be sometimes we can't keep up with the object being observed as we will only examine it after a long moment. For example, the great red spot rolled into the view, the observers asked about it and we might say that it's caused by the atmosphere or anything else.


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RogerRZ
Whatta you lookin' at?
*****

Reged: 01/09/06

Loc: West Collette, NB, Canada
Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: Kim Miau]
      #1736225 - 07/24/07 12:22 PM

Quote:

Did the people like the SCT too?






They did, there just wasn't as may of them lined up to have a look-see.

It's their loss, I guess...


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Kim Miau
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/17/06

Loc: Malaysia
Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: RogerRZ]
      #1737969 - 07/25/07 09:54 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Did the people like the SCT too?






They did, there just wasn't as may of them lined up to have a look-see.

It's their loss, I guess...



Haha.. this is true. When you don't know much about observing, you won't feel any regret if you miss something. Know more, more regret.


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kmichaelm
member


Reged: 11/18/05

Loc: Missouri
Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: desertstars]
      #2151101 - 01/28/08 12:40 PM

A big (5-8") high quality refractor on a clock driven or goto EQ mount. Eyepiece height isn't too bad, and it *looks* like a "real" telescope.

Even a smallish refractor is good for many public events, if you have the right kind of targets. For example, our club did an event recently for an elementary school and I brought my 4" APO on a Vixen GP mount. Had it on Mars & the moon. Other members had 8" dobs & SCTs - a typical mix for our public events. Often I am told that the planet views through my 4" is the "clearest" of all the scopes (it comes to thermal equilibrium much quicker than an 8").

Evidence for the "coolness" refractor factor - one of the kids exclaimed, upon seeing my setup,"This scope is TIGHT!"

(Translation: Tight = really cool!)


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moron392
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 08/20/07

Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: desertstars]
      #2156334 - 01/30/08 04:28 PM

well, it is probably either a nice Achro, or an APO, in the 80-100mm range on an altaz mt., or a small (4-6") newt on a GEM. these are good scopes with great ability to cause a "WOW", and are usually affordable (as with the newt, or even the Achro) enough for them not to be scared off. but an 8" is the upper limit for kids, adults probably will still like it to 10".

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matthew2000tx
sage


Reged: 12/14/06

Loc: San Antonio, TX
Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: asaint]
      #2269513 - 03/20/08 04:33 AM Attachment (126 downloads)

Personally I have a 10inch dobsonian with a Telrad... I tell people it runs on "Steak and Eggs".

I'm a teacher and sponsor of the astronomy club at my school. Outreach is my passion. Everytime I take my 10 inch out, I'm pleased with it. People enjoy the views. Rarely do I have to get a stool taller than 1 foot off the ground for people to see in the eyepiece. I got my dob after owning a "Go-To", I found that the Go-To didn't work for much for me at out reach events, I like showing people a tour of the heavens... I move around quickly and faster with my dob than my Go-to motors go! I like my telrad b/c on bight objects like the moon I can look from the top of the tel-rad and see if it is still centered on it even while people are looking in the eyepiece.

I'm a member of the San Antonio Astronomical Assoc. and this past month I've done about 10 outreach events with them and have have about 1,200 or more people look through my scope. At our last outreach event (March 15,2008) we had 28 scopes set up and counted between 400-500 people in attendence. I try to set up at near the parking lot side of the telescope field so when people are leaving I can say... hey what did you see?, and if they didn't see something like a cluster, I'll say hey let me move my scope the this and that, and bam! in 20 seconds to 1 minute we are there!

Since the question is what 3 scopes would be best I'd say:

1. My 10inch dobsonian- Because of the following reasons, easy of use, light gathering ability, it was signed by John Dobson (conversation starter), and portability (fits in my 2007 Jeep Wrangler 2 door!

2. a 4.5 or 6 inch dobsonian...why you ask?...well, it is extremely portable, if you had to ride a bus to get where the outreach was you could. It would do great on planets, and the moon (both are big crowd pleasers); it shows the public what a good entry level telescope would be (instead of overpriced plastic junk that department stores sell), it is not intimidating so if you wanted to let the public use it. It isn't expensive so if a kid accidentally ran it down your not taking out a second mortgage. I'm seriously thinking about buying one for my wife, she started accompanying me on outreaches and it would be easy for me to run the 10" and her the 6"

3. A Mak-Cas 90mm go-to scope with electronic eyepiece and TV. I've got a 90mm MakCas Goto scope and a Meade electronic eyepiece, and a boom-box with a TV. I like setting up the scope to track the moon and have it display the image on a television screen. Also the scope is extremely portable, and it shows the public what a decent entry level scope would be.

What I like about these scopes is that I could run my 10" Dob, the wife man the 6" Dob. and we could have the Go-to tracking something and displaying images on the TV virtually unmonitored so with 2 people you've got three scopes going at once!.

I'm not against big scopes, but I think that portability and affortablity, and eyepiece height play a big part in selecting a scope for outreach! After all the best scope for outreach is going the be the one you can use the most for outreach, a 26inch might be too much work to setup for an hour long outreach event especially if Jane & John Doe don't monitor their children and they run into your scope!

Matthew

Ps. I made money a factor in this b/c to me it is a factor! I a teacher not a pro-football player.

Edited by matthew2000tx (03/20/08 04:37 AM)


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saxmaneagle
sage


Reged: 08/21/07

Loc: Saint Francis, MN
Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: matthew2000tx]
      #2325452 - 04/14/08 01:54 AM

I just have to throw in my own 2 cents here. I think everyone seems to forget the first 2 MOST important ones - the ones that got me hooked.

1) Eyeballs ! -- first pointing out constellations, points of interest with eyeballs.

2) Binoculars -- The very first time at night someone handed me a pair of binoculars at night, will never be forgotten. The amazing impact of (eyeballs see 5 stars there ) then (binoculars see 100 stars same spot) !! That instant hooked me.

So guess I'm saying, 1) eyeballs first, 2)pair of hand held binoculars of any size, THEN...add 3) scope to taste


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projectepiphany
newbie


Reged: 06/14/08

Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: LivingNDixie]
      #2477133 - 06/23/08 01:00 AM

Quote:

A really big dob. It doesn't matter what brand, it just has to be big




I agree with Preston. Our 8 and 12 inch Dobs have worked very well for us. If money were no option, we would invest in the T1 being developed by Dan Llewellyn at Telescopes Atlanta. It's a 16 inch Dob designed for convenience - only 69 lbs., folds down small enough to fit in a sub-compact car, sets up in 5 minutes, and it's small enough for short people (like me) and children to use without a ladder.
Check it out at:
http://www.telescopeatlanta.com/


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Astrosetz
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/05/03

Loc: Wisconsin
Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: projectepiphany]
      #2479011 - 06/23/08 10:22 PM

It's been a while since I posted on this thread. We've begun doing sidewalk astronomy at new a local outdoor mall/living center, and using the 22" Starmaster isn't practical from a transportation standpoint. Because of the large crowds and the prospect of me not being right by the scope all the time, I decided not to use my 11" Starmaster or my Televue-85. Instead, I tuned up an old 8" Hardin Dob acquired off Astromart a few years ago. Know what? It's a great public demo scope!

Saturn and it's rings, the Moon at 100x, Alberio -- all from a very light-polluted area -- look great in that scope. "That is *tight*! How much is that?" When I respond you can get one brand-new for about $350, they are flabbergasted. For less than the cost of a video game system, you can get your own spaceship!

All in a scope I can carry in one piece on a fold-up dolly and not worry about if I have to turn my back for a few minutes. It's a small scope to many of us but to the average onlooker it's a "huge cannon". I'm having a lot of fun doing outreach with this!


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square_peg
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 03/26/04

Loc: Maple Valley, WA
Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: Astrosetz]
      #2486975 - 06/27/08 08:13 PM

Quote:

Instead, I tuned up an old 8" Hardin Dob acquired off Astromart a few years ago. Know what? It's a great public demo scope!





I'm somewhat biased by owning this scope myself, but I agree that it's good for outreach. It's always wowed the crowds for me and it surprises people how affordable it is.

One of my mentors when I first joined this website once said something like, "whatever else you have in your stable you should always keep a 6"-10" dob around."

I concur.


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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/24/08

Loc: Central New Jersey
Re: Top 3 public demonstration telescopes new [Re: EdZ]
      #2594613 - 08/21/08 05:11 AM

Quote:

So let's see, to what could we compare using a 22" scope as a teaching scope.

It would be kind of like teaching:

a teenager to drive using a forumla one racer, instead of a Corolla;
a little leaguer to bat with a 40"/32oz bat instead of a 30"/18oz;
a cub scout to hike with a 3200 cu. in. full pack before ever wearing a day pack;
a kid to play Mozart before every learning how to play chop sticks;

I don't know, I just don't see how big is better. I'd rather have everyone go away after a night out and realize what they could see with a small piece of equipment that
they could afford to purchase,
let their kid take out back on their own,
is not so big that they get scared off from the hobby.

I would want them to be exposed to the simple realities of beginning astronomy, that they wouldn't go away and be disappointed because it might be half a liftime before they could ever afford to see the sky as they just did through a 22" scope and anything they might get after that would be a big disappointment.

At every session I hold, everyone is blown away by the views, ever thru the 3", 5" and 6" scopes. Many poeple go away from the night with the realization that here is something they could afford to do with their kids and they have seen and used equipment that is realistic to purchase to do it and have a lot of fun.

I'd be inclined to think using a 22" scope as a teaching scope would chase more people away from astronomy as a hobby than it might encourage to take it up as something they could realistically approach and do on their own!

edz




I agree with Edz here 100%, for children and even adults who dont understand the complexities of telescopes, a bigger scope is not what they are ready for. Sure its cool to look through a bigger scope to see a nice image, but they dont get as much from a large dob as they do from a small sct or refrac. People would never start out using a 22 inch dobonsian as their first scope, so seeing that image and then getting a 4 or 6 inch telescope is going to really discourage that person from the hobby as the view will be substantially less impressive to untrained, inexperienced eyes and people.

I only have 8 inches of aperture on my scope, but my eyes have years of dark adaptation and telescope viewing training. After logging literally 1000+ hours spent at the eyepiece, with both eyes, you tend to not only see more, but get more impressed by less impressive images, only because your expectations are more balanced.

I know that a 22 inch dob will show a almost infinite amount of more detail than my 8 inch sct, but that doesn't take anything away from my experience. I am still in complete awe, and my heart starts beating while i get that "oh darn" feeling.

Astronomy noobies who do not have prior scientific backgrounds of even high school or college levels cannot appreciate a telescope as we can. Especially in the lower aperture range where images are not really all that impressive to high expectation having people.


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