asaint
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/25/03
Posts: 1964
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Howie Glatter BLUG
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Peter Argenziano
Watcher of the Skies
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 2771
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Dave, thanks for the review. Great collection of photos, which I always appreciate in a product review.
I must admit that I am quite surprised that it doesn't fit into a Feathertouch focuser properly. You would think that would have been one of the focusers it was tested on.  It's funny that I've never read this in any of the forums where I've seen the BLUG discussed. Thanks for the heads up.
And thanks for the installation description... I don't think I'd care to have this thing suspended over an expensive primary, secured by a piece of shim stock. There are other similar devices on the market that screw onto a laser collimator, which seems like a better idea.
I agree that modifying the BLUG in your machine shop is a lot of work for a $60 accessory.
I guess I'll just keep using my Kendrick and cheshire.
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Peter
14.5" Starmaster
We do what we have to do in order to do what we want to do.
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Tom Trusock
Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 26829
Loc: Alternate Reality (TM)
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Hmm -
I haven't actually used mine in my feathertouch yet (I knew I was going to have to shim it), but IIRC Howie's own scope has a feathertouch too. There didn't appear to be any issues in Howies scope at NEAF.
I'll admit I have been a little apprehensive about just sticking it into the focuser - but it seems like a good idea.
Thanks for the write up Dave.
T
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There are two theories to arguing with my wife. Neither one works.
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John Kocijanski
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/22/03
Posts: 1469
Loc: Monticello, NY
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Good review. Did you contact Howie with the issues?
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John
Deep Space Observer 10 * SPC-8 * C102 HD f/10 * XT 4.5 * AT1010N * PST *
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Vic Menard
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/21/04
Posts: 2616
Loc: Bradenton, FL
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I've had a 2-inch prototype BLUG since this year's Winter Star Party. I let Howie know the next day that it would not work (without modification) on a FeatherTouch focuser. It seems to work well on most non threaded focuser drawtubes, and it's the perfect solution for the ubiquitous economy laser collimator.
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dave b
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/10/05
Posts: 2377
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yeah, i told howie, CN does not allow a vendors response to a review to be included.
cutting threads was going to be too hard for the average guy, so i did something different.
here i have my fix:
a ring of kydex, (what eles are you going to do with this shiny, sparkly stuff, make a UTA shroud with it??) mached out to 2" ID and 2.5" OD.
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dave bonandrini
30" f/5.2 Dobsonian
President of GCAC
Astromart Moderator
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dave b
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/10/05
Posts: 2377
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here is the ring in place
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dave bonandrini
30" f/5.2 Dobsonian
President of GCAC
Astromart Moderator
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dave b
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/10/05
Posts: 2377
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now it works. with the pink shim behind the o-ring, this thing is rock solid.
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dave bonandrini
30" f/5.2 Dobsonian
President of GCAC
Astromart Moderator
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dave b
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/10/05
Posts: 2377
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oh yeah, the ring is 1/16" thick.
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dave bonandrini
30" f/5.2 Dobsonian
President of GCAC
Astromart Moderator
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Tom Trusock
Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 26829
Loc: Alternate Reality (TM)
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Quote:
yeah, i told howie, CN does not allow a vendors response to a review to be included.
Actually, that's not exactly true - if you contacted the vendor about a problem, and if he has a response, it's good form to put it in the article, or at least summarize it in the discussion thread. This prevents misconceptions and helps people better see the intent of the product.
So - What did howie say?
T
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There are two theories to arguing with my wife. Neither one works.
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dave b
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/10/05
Posts: 2377
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Post deleted by half meter
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dave bonandrini
30" f/5.2 Dobsonian
President of GCAC
Astromart Moderator
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dave b
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/10/05
Posts: 2377
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Quote:
Quote:
yeah, i told howie, CN does not allow a vendors response to a review to be included.
Actually, that's not exactly true - if you contacted the vendor about a problem, and if he has a response, it's good form to put it in the article, or at least summarize it in the discussion thread. This prevents misconceptions and helps people better see the intent of the product.
So - What did howie say?
T
in the webster telescope review, i had posted websters response to the problems i had pointed out. i was told by allister that cn does not allow vendors response, so i removed it. allister said the forums were the proper place for vendor response. tom, you may get more "leeway" than i do!
howie said he understood that the BLUG would not fit every single focuser and that he wished there was more of a standard. he also asked me to add a statement that the BLUG was patent pending; i forwarded that to the mods.
i sent my fix to howie, he is welcome to use it.
he could also make two different placements for the O-ring, one closer to the shoulder that would accomplish the same thing.
a few of you have asked about the shim. it is UNDER the o-ring, it cannot fall out. you dont even see it.
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dave bonandrini
30" f/5.2 Dobsonian
President of GCAC
Astromart Moderator
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Tom Trusock
Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 26829
Loc: Alternate Reality (TM)
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
yeah, i told howie, CN does not allow a vendors response to a review to be included.
Actually, that's not exactly true - if you contacted the vendor about a problem, and if he has a response, it's good form to put it in the article, or at least summarize it in the discussion thread. This prevents misconceptions and helps people better see the intent of the product.
So - What did howie say?
T
in the webster telescope review, i had posted websters response to the problems i had pointed out. i was told by allister that cn does not allow vendors response, so i removed it. allister said the forums were the proper place for vendor response. tom, you may get more "leeway" than i do!
howie said he understood that the BLUG would not fit every single focuser and that he wished there was more of a standard. he also asked me to add a statement that the BLUG was patent pending; i forwarded that to the mods.
i sent my fix to howie, he is welcome to use it.
While Allister is the head editor (and I may be missing a trick), this is my understanding of the subject - What we don't want to see is vendors influencing, justifying, or attempting to rewrite the reviews. To have any validity, it really has to be YOUR words and YOUR opinions, not the vendors.
I'd really have to see the initial article to get a better handle on why Allister edited like he did, but I think I may know what's going on.
I think there's a misunderstanding here, and suspect it's partly my fault because of how I worded it above. You're basically right. No, we don't allow the vendors to have a say in the article - however, if you wish to say you contacted them as a user seeking technical support and report their response - in the article - in your own words - there's generally nothing wrong with that. (I just kinda took that to be understood - my mistake.) In fact, it may give people a handle on how the company in question handles technical support - and that would be a good thing.
As I indicated above (and as we've done here), the forum is another place to discuss this type of thing - and sometimes it's more appropriate as the vendors can help make clarifications. Additionally, if the vendors comments are after the fact, this forum is most certainly the easiest and perhaps the best place to add an addendum.
It's always good form to include all the data you can in the interest of accuracy and best serving the readership.
Thanks for posting the fix and howies comments.
T
Edited by Tom Trusock (07/08/06 01:40 PM)
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Howie Glatter
Vendor
Reged: 07/04/06
Posts: 80
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I'd like to thank Dave for his Blug review. I think it was factual, fair, and very well illustrated.
There's a big variation in the dimensions of inner drawtube ends of the various makes of focusers; for example, I'm hearing that some older Feathertouch focusers have an even larger, and eccentric drawtube opening. I wish the draw tube openings were standardized at both ends :- ) The prototype Blug worked fine in my JMI and Moonlite focusers, so I crossed my fingers, supplied the shim kit, and warned people of possible fit problems.
I am going to measure all the popular drawtubes, and develop fit fixes for them as necessary. Also, I am correcting the finish problem mentioned by Dave. Dave's fit fix for the Feathertouch looks excellent, and I may, with due credit and permission, happily steal it from him.
Now that it fits his Feathertouch, I'd be interested in getting Dave's impressions after he's had a chance to use it by himself.
Clear skies - perfect collimation,
Howie
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Tom Trusock
Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 26829
Loc: Alternate Reality (TM)
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Thanks Howie!
T
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There are two theories to arguing with my wife. Neither one works.
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Peter Argenziano
Watcher of the Skies
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 2771
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Dave, thanks for posting your modification to the BLUG (again, the photos are much appreciated). I've got a couple of questions:
1. How did you cut the Kydex ring?
2. How is the Kydex ring secured to the BLUG? Is there a lip that it is resting against?
3. In your opinion, how does the BLUG + laser collimator differ from the Kendrick 2" laser collimator with the beveled face? I understand that the BLUG contains a barlow so that the spot is a larger diameter. The diameter doesn't seem to be an issue with the Kendrick due to its engraved pattern on the beveled surface.
Does the difference have more to do with the fact that the BLUG isn't physically attached to the collimator, instead being aligned with the focuser?
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Peter
14.5" Starmaster
We do what we have to do in order to do what we want to do.
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dave b
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/10/05
Posts: 2377
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Quote:
Dave, thanks for posting your modification to the BLUG (again, the photos are much appreciated). I've got a couple of questions:
1. How did you cut the Kydex ring?
2. How is the Kydex ring secured to the BLUG? Is there a lip that it is resting against?
3. In your opinion, how does the BLUG + laser collimator differ from the Kendrick 2" laser collimator with the beveled face? I understand that the BLUG contains a barlow so that the spot is a larger diameter. The diameter doesn't seem to be an issue with the Kendrick due to its engraved pattern on the beveled surface.
Does the difference have more to do with the fact that the BLUG isn't physically attached to the collimator, instead being aligned with the focuser?
i cut the inner hole with a 2" spanner bit, then w/o moving the press or the piece, i made the outer cut with a 2.5" hole saw. i stopped just short of a full cut, and "punched" it out of the sheet. if you cut all the way through, you will distroy it or it will fly in your face; because there is no way to hold it down.
the ring is exactly the same size as the BLUG so it slides down snug. it wont fall off because of the o-ring.
the barlowed laser is better because it ignores focuser slop; you can shake the focuser and the shadow does not move. the shadow is more accurate to center than is the beam going back down the hole too.
google nils olofs article and see why its so much better.
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dave bonandrini
30" f/5.2 Dobsonian
President of GCAC
Astromart Moderator
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Peter Argenziano
Watcher of the Skies
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 2771
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Quote:
google nils olofs article and see why its so much better
Dave, were you referencing a specific article? Obviously Googling nils olof article will result in many pages referencing Mr. Carlin's work regarding collimation.
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Peter
14.5" Starmaster
We do what we have to do in order to do what we want to do.
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dave b
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/10/05
Posts: 2377
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Quote:
Quote:
google nils olofs article and see why its so much better
Dave, were you referencing a specific article? Obviously Googling nils olof article will result in many pages referencing Mr. Carlin's work regarding collimation.
the sky and tel article that i referenced in my review.
PM me your email address if you cant find it online.
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dave bonandrini
30" f/5.2 Dobsonian
President of GCAC
Astromart Moderator
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Peter Argenziano
Watcher of the Skies
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 2771
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Thanks Dave... got it.
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Peter
14.5" Starmaster
We do what we have to do in order to do what we want to do.
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PlanetMan
sage
Reged: 12/20/05
Posts: 278
Loc: Upland, Ca.
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I picked up a BLUG at RTMC in May and love it. It was a little sloppy in the drawtube of my Lightbridge, but I fixed that with a couple wraps of teflon tape under the o-ring (this was before the shims were available). I use it with a standard Glatter laser and can collimate in about 2 minutes.
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12" Lightbridge Deluxe
C9.25 on Atlas-G
Pans and Naglers
ToUCam 840
StellaCam II
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MMICKELS
Aluminum Knight
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 24809
Loc: The Land of Shake and Bake
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Great article Dave. I was wondering if anyone has tested the accuracy of the BLUG vs the more standard collimation devices?
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Mark
"The only thing wrong with immortality is that it tends to go on forever."
Herb Caen
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Peter Argenziano
Watcher of the Skies
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 2771
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Where does one get a BLUG? I looked at Howie's website, but don't see it as one of the available products.
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Peter
14.5" Starmaster
We do what we have to do in order to do what we want to do.
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Roger Greenwood
newbie
Reged: 07/09/06
Posts: 3
Loc: MA, USA
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I recently tried Howie's Blug on my newly upgraded Frathertough on my 18" Obsession. I found it fit fine enough for me to use it with not worries. Fit a little loose, but not enough to affect use or safety. I think I will be trying a small tweak to see if it will fit better.
-Roger
18" Obsession #694
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gubbenimanen
sage
Reged: 08/09/05
Posts: 265
Loc: Sweden
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I would be worried of the collimation accuracy if the Blug doesn't center exactly.
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Roger
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dave b
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/10/05
Posts: 2377
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Quote:
Great article Dave. I was wondering if anyone has tested the accuracy of the BLUG vs the more standard collimation devices?
the barlowed laser has already shown to be superior because it takes the focuser slop out of the mix. it's a no guesswork kind of system. the blug is the next evolutionary step in the barlow/laser design, the design itself has already been proven.
Quote:
Where does one get a BLUG? I looked at Howie's website, but don't see it as one of the available products.
you have to call howie to get one, im sure he is waiting until he has a solution for every focuser, b4 putting it up on the site and becoming overloaded with calls.
Quote:
I would be worried of the collimation accuracy if the Blug doesn't center exactly.
you are right, of course it has to be tight and square in the focuser to be accurate.
if you are using a feathertouch, just cut a ring, or call howie for one, and you are all set.
Quote:
Now that it fits his Feathertouch, I'd be interested in getting Dave's impressions after he's had a chance to use it by himself.
well, i guess thats what is so great about it, i CAN use it by myself. many times i would have a bystander tell me what way to turn the primary bolts with the old barlow target. this saved me from walking up to check every adjustment, or squinting at the reflection in the secondary.
the weather has been cloudy and the moon full, but i used it in the garage during daylight (yes, the 635nm laser is bright enough to be seen in daylight), and it takes less that a minute to line up everything.
judging from my inbox, there seems to be some confusion on how the BLUG is used.
1. place a laser w/o the blug into the focuser. adjust the secondary knobs to make the laser beam shine EXACTLY into the center spot (that little paper hole reinforcement "donut" you most likely have already in the center of your primary) on the primary mirror.
2. now, place the BLUG in the INSIDE of the focuser tube, white side facing down towards the mirror box.
3. the laser beam is now expanded to about 10" around the primary mirror center spot.
4. the shadow of that paper donut, now is displayed as a dark ring on the white face of the BLUG, center this ring by adjusting the primary mirror knobs.
5. done. it takes less than a minute. unlike other collimation devices, you KNOW you are aligned, you can see it as plain as day.
the BLUG is a huge time saver, and would allow a beginner to have total confidence that they have their optics spot on.
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dave bonandrini
30" f/5.2 Dobsonian
President of GCAC
Astromart Moderator
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Howie Glatter
Vendor
Reged: 07/04/06
Posts: 80
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>Where does one get a BLUG? I looked at Howie's website,
>but don't see it as one of the available products.
Sorry, it's not in my ads or website yet, but it should be soon. I have 1 1/4" units, but I'm out of stock of 2" Blugs, and awaiting back-ordered material, so it may be two or three weeks until I'm shipping them again. In the interim I'll try to fix any fit problems. Interested parties can e-mail me at howieglatter@mindspring.com for more information, or to reserve a Blug.
I didn't read posting rules for vendors on the forums, so I hope I'm not violating the letter or spirit of any rules with the above statement. My gratitude goes out to the people who sponsor and put Cloudy Nights together.
I'll try to attach a shot I took today in my living room of the Blug in action. I'm thinking of an ad shot, and was trying to show sharpness and contrast of the shadow on the Blug screen. It was about a one second exposure taken in full daylight.
Howie
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Howie Glatter
Vendor
Reged: 07/04/06
Posts: 80
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Don't know why the file didn't attach. I'll try again.
H.
Edited by jrcrilly (07/10/06 01:21 PM)
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Roger Greenwood
newbie
Reged: 07/09/06
Posts: 3
Loc: MA, USA
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I checked the accuracty by removing the blug after aligning the donut image
and the laser was dead-spot on. Also, if you wiggle it, the donut image
doesn't move at all, so I suspect the slight wiggle doesn't make a difference
to the final alignment.
-Roger
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gubbenimanen
sage
Reged: 08/09/05
Posts: 265
Loc: Sweden
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In most telescopes you shouldn't collimate using the return beam of a plain laser. See (google for) Carlin's collimation page why a dead-spot on can give wrong collimation. That's one reason we instead use the barlowed laser for the primary mirror tilt. You center the donut silhouette around the exit hole of the Blug. If this hole is decentered then you will fail with the final alignment.
Roger
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Roger
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Vic Menard
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/21/04
Posts: 2616
Loc: Bradenton, FL
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