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Bob Riggs
super member
Reged: 01/04/06
Posts: 172
Loc: S/Central Montana
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Guys, I've read back posts but have not found my answer. There's probably a good reason why mirror mounts like Obie's maintain a 45 degree relationship between the mirror and the binoc's, and the assembly articulates. I recently saw an article where the binoc's do not articulate, but the mirror does, and the assembly slews side-to-side. What's the consensus on this, please?
Many thanks,
Bob
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C8 Ultima with Argo Navis, 6" RFT reflector, 127 Meade Mak, 150mm Achro on an LXD650, 102 Achro on Chinese GEM clone
Favorite quote: "Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing at all", Helen Keller
BEARTOOTH MOUNTAIN OBSERVATORY, NYE, MONTANA
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12513
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Anybody have an answer for this.
I suppose it is easier and less expensive to make a mirror mount with no moving parts and allow the tripod to be used for tilt, rather than create a movable hinge for the mirror.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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refractory
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/05/05
Posts: 1014
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I have large flats I've used with my binoculars- the angle doesn't seem to matter that much but something starts happening at very shallow ones- star pinpoints start to elongate. Dunno why. These aren't optical flats but from copiers, military periscopes and stereoviewers. Perhaps the flatness is crucial at shallower angles?
Jess Tauber
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OBERWERK
Vendor
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 84
Loc: OH
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Quote:
There's probably a good reason why mirror mounts like Obie's maintain a 45 degree relationship between the mirror and the binoc's, and the assembly articulates. Bob
Yes, it's because a 45-degree fixed angle allows us to use the smallest mirror possible. For example, our larger model has a 1/2"-thick 10"x5" rectangular mirror. Our cost for this very high quality mirror is surprisingly high. A mirror that pivots would have to be much larger (more square than rectangular). Imagine what it would cost to manufacture a mirror that size that would match the quality of the 10"X5" mirror. Also consider that the pivoting mirrors are much thinner than the fixed mirror and you can draw your own conclusions about which design has the best image quality.
Kevin Busarow
Oberwerk Corp.
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Bob Riggs
super member
Reged: 01/04/06
Posts: 172
Loc: S/Central Montana
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Jess, thank you. Your comments are very helpful.
Bob
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C8 Ultima with Argo Navis, 6" RFT reflector, 127 Meade Mak, 150mm Achro on an LXD650, 102 Achro on Chinese GEM clone
Favorite quote: "Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing at all", Helen Keller
BEARTOOTH MOUNTAIN OBSERVATORY, NYE, MONTANA
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Bob Riggs
super member
Reged: 01/04/06
Posts: 172
Loc: S/Central Montana
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Kevin, I appreciate your comments. I have no doubt that you have the finest mirror mount available. It's on my Christmas list. Right now, I'm saving my lunch money for a pair of your sweet 20 X 80 light weights. Be back to you, soon.
Bob
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C8 Ultima with Argo Navis, 6" RFT reflector, 127 Meade Mak, 150mm Achro on an LXD650, 102 Achro on Chinese GEM clone
Favorite quote: "Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing at all", Helen Keller
BEARTOOTH MOUNTAIN OBSERVATORY, NYE, MONTANA
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rushintuit
sage
Reged: 04/01/06
Posts: 260
Loc: Farpoint Observatory
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I believe the Sky Window from Trico is considered the highest quality mirror for binoculars:
http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=615
http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=51
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/// Stellarvue SV102ED /// Nikon 12x50 /// Fujinon 16x70 /// SkyTools 2 /// The Desktop Universe All Sky CCD Mosaic In Monochrome Mode ///
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12513
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Neither of these reviews give any technical details about the Trico at all. the first review is more about the Fujinon 10x70 than the trico and the second review is more about how easy it is to use the mirror mount. Other than the first user's comment that it is a fine machined piece of equipment, we still don't know much about it.
It would be nice if someone would add a technical review comparing mirror mounts. I notice the Trico is the square mirror type. No mention of thickness or flatness. There is a weblink in our pinned web resources to a mirror supplier. The supplier does have several quality levels of mirrors, and generally, thicker is better.
This information is posted on the Trico Skywindow Website
Quote:
we are now offering Sky Window at 3 mirror quality levels:
Sky Window Standard – for binoculars up to 8x - standard no upgrade ($259)
Sky Window Excel – for binoculars up to 15x - $35.00 upgrade price
Sky Window Gold – for binoculars up to 22x - $70.00 upgrade price
There was no information anywhere on the Trico site or the Sky Window site as to the quality of their mirror.
Trico states that while most people may be satisfied with performance, they recommend their standard mirror only for up to 8x magnification. So the standard Sky Window mirror, as stated even by Trico, is not the highest quality mirror for binocular viewing.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
Edited by EdZ (07/19/06 09:43 AM)
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rushintuit
sage
Reged: 04/01/06
Posts: 260
Loc: Farpoint Observatory
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Unless it has changed, Oberwerk uses army surplus tank periscope mirrors. It's interesting to me that the Sky Window was invented by Al Gore (kidding). The Sky Window was invented by a Jesuit Priest/Astronomer, Emmanuel M Carreira.
If you want to read a really good article, go the Sky and Telescope archives and read, "A Refractor in the Round" by Emmanuel M Carreira. Unfortunately, if you're not a subscriber, the article will cost you $3.95.
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/// Stellarvue SV102ED /// Nikon 12x50 /// Fujinon 16x70 /// SkyTools 2 /// The Desktop Universe All Sky CCD Mosaic In Monochrome Mode ///
Edited by rushintuit (07/19/06 03:20 PM)
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OBERWERK
Vendor
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 84
Loc: OH
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Quote:
Unless it has changed, Oberwerk uses army surplus tank periscope mirrors.
Our standard size mirror mount still uses the periscope mirror, but there is a very limited supply of those left. In anticipation of running out, and due to the popularity of our larger binoculars, we spec'd new larger mirrors from a factory in China. After three attempts, they got it right. 1/2" was the minimum thickness they could get away with, and still meet the 1/4 wave spec. Between the mirror, and the American-made CNC'd aluminum parts, our costs are so high that we don't sell these mounts through dealers, simply because there isn't enough margin to do so.
Kevin Busarow
Oberwerk Corp.
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Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2490
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Kevin,
Thanks so much for your input. I am not in the market for a mirror mount right now but your first hand info is much appreciated.
Erik D
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mplkn1
sage
Reged: 08/28/05
Posts: 393
Loc: Centrally Inaccessible, PA
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Kevin -
Dredged from the archives in a search, read, and sold!
Excellent info, revealing how you let your standards rule the outcome of your product development: most reassuring!
Give me a few weeks (if my neck holds out that long!) - I'll be placing the order!
Thanks and best wishes,
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Michael -
"In this world, shipmates, sin that pays its way can travel freely, and without a passport; whereas Virtue, if a pauper, is stopped at all frontiers." Father Mapple, Moby Dick.
Orion (Celestron) 8" SCT on SkyView Pro,
Garrett Optical Gemini 25x100 WP,
Oberwerk 10x60 Mariner,
Bogen 3051 tripod w/ 3063 head, dual handles,
Telrad,
Palm Planetarium,
Palm Astromist,
Stellarium (runs great on Vista),
SkyScout,
Replogle 'Apollo' celestial globe,
Sky & Telescope Pocket Atlas.
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