kestrel0222
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/21/06
Posts: 2335
Loc: Milford, Michigan
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Last night while I was out observing the Andromeda Galaxy, I noticed an object to the left that I was not sure what it was, so I got out my S&T's pocket Sky Atlas and looked it up. I appears that what I saw was a small galaxy called RV278? Where can I find information on this object. It does not appear in any of my Messier's books (I know, if it was there it would have an "M" designation  )? I don't have a book on Caldwell objects, might it be listed there? 
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blackhaz
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/20/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: Prague, Czech Republic
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Could it be M32?
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Max,
10" Aries MCT, C11-SGT XLT, WO ZenithStar 66ED, 90mm <1Å H-alpha Solar Achromat
Coronado PST CaK, P. Hawksley 100 l/mm grating, Astrovid Voyager, Denkmeier Std, APM Solarprism
Photos and Projects: http://www.bcsatellite.net/bao/
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kestrel0222
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/21/06
Posts: 2335
Loc: Milford, Michigan
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No, it wasn't M32, I found that last night also.
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Tom
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Paul_R
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/05/05
Posts: 1545
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Never heard of it before. near to M31 is M32 which you saw and then also M110.
What size scope were you using?
Have you tried Google (nothing showed up for me)? Or gone to the SEDs site and seen what's near to M31?
I've been around the block, well the sky, enough time and years, so I'm pretty sure I'd have heard of another galaxy near M31, especially if it made it into the pocket atlas it would have to be bright.
How close to M31 is it in the atlas? That is, how many degrees (or fraction thereof) is it from M31? Where does it fall relative to M110 and M32?
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Paul_R
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/05/05
Posts: 1545
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Just did a check in my sky atlas... what you saw was NGC 278! It's six degrees away from M31, across the border in Cassiopeia. The confusion is that right next to it is a variable star, RV Cass. The pocket atlas, like my sky atlas, labels them right next to each other making it look like RV 278, which doesn't exist.
By the way, ngc 278 seems to be a small faint sucker (mag data vary), so congrats on spotting it.
http://www.seds.org/~spider/ngc/ngc.cgi?NGC278
Although an observer's report describges it as "fairly bright smudge" peanut shaped! Hmm... worth tracking down!
http://clifty.com/scott/DSO/278.html
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Achernar
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 3209
Loc: Alabama, USA
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It was most likely M-110 or NGC-205, a larger and more diffuse dwarf elliptical than M-32. It lies on the opposite side of M-31 from M-32, and is definitely dimmer than M-32 but still easy to see even in small telescopes. If you were looking about 7 degrees to the north of M-31, it's either NGC-185, another satellite of M-31, or NGG-278, a dwarf spiral in Cassiopeia. NGC-185 also has a companion, NGC-147 that is very faint and hard to see. This is a sketch I made of M-110 below.
Taras
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10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
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kestrel0222
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/21/06
Posts: 2335
Loc: Milford, Michigan
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Thanks Paul,
I am fairly new to this hobby, I knew someone a CN could help, and you did, Thank you!!  The reason that I knew it was a galaxy, that's because in my pocket sky atlas, it is "red" in color. Approx. Dec is +47, RA less then 1h. Sorry for the "poor" location description, again, I am fairly new to all of this. Oh, I was using my 8" Dob with 25mm Plössl eyepiece.
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Tom
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Jaycin
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/09/06
Posts: 2139
Loc: SW FLorida, USA
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I see M110 every time I look at M31, but I'll be darned if I can see M32 which is supposed to be brighter. In the EP, M110 appears to the left of M31 and M32 should be closer and to the right, but I have yet to see it. Unless I'm confusing M110 for M32.
Here's the sketch I did of "M110", maybe someone could confirm this for me....
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Jason
Zhumell 8" Dobsonian
60mm Meade Telestar
Sketching the Cosmos
Messier countdown: 102 down, 8 to go! 
Yalta Observatory- North Port, FL
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BillFerris
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/17/04
Posts: 2471
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Hi Jason,
I'm leaning toward your sketch being of M32 (NGC 221) for several reasons. The bright star near the right edge in your sketch is a good match for HD 3914, a 7.0 magnitude sparkler stationed 13 arcminutes southwest of M32. There is no comparable star near M110. Also, the galaxy shows a stellar core region, an obvious feature of M32 but not as obvious in M110. Finally, M32 is closer to M31 and really is easier to detect than M110. And keep in mind that your Newtonian reflector produces an inverted image. "Right" and "Left" usually don't translate from the star chart to the eyepiece. Try to think in terms of N-S-E-W, directions that do translate...although more easily so when observing with an equatorial mount than with an altazimuth (e.g. Dobsonian) mount.
Regards,
Bill in Flagstaff
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Grand Canyon Adventure
Lowering the Threshold
18" Obsession
4.5" Meade 4500
10x50 Swift Audubon
Cosmic Voyage
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snorkler
Aperture Aficionado
Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 7903
Loc: Bay Area, California
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Bill,
The obvious problem with Jason's sketch being M32 is that M32 is round. NGC 205 (aka M110) is elongated like Jason's sketch shows. Does anyone notice the amazing resemblence between Arowana's NGC 205 sketch and Jason's?
It's easier for an inexperienced person to think M32 is a star (albeit a huge fuzzy one) and miss it, than for him to completely miss NGC 205 with an 8" scope under reasonably dark skies.
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Lotteries are a tax on people who don't understand math - Snorkler
Edited by snorkler (07/31/06 03:47 AM)
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Paul_R
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/05/05
Posts: 1545
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I'm with you on this one Darrell... Jason, were you observing under relatively dark or transparent skies? M110 is usually pretty ghostly, but it does look like your sketch (nice drawing by the way!). It suggests to me that your scope has a good smoothly figured mirror! Congrats!
I'll bet you've simply overlooked M32... it's a bright star (well round with a tad of fuzz) tucked right near M31.
Tom, if you are new to the hobby and were *close* to M31... that is, right by it, say only an eyepiece fov away, if that, then it was likely M110 (if faint and elongated), but more likely it was M32, star like with some fuzzy.
NGC 287 is 6 degrees away... not next to M31! 6 degrees is many, many eyepiece fovs, and you'd most likely need to be an experienced observer to catch it easily. So, I've probably cleared up the RV and 287 confusion, but the object you saw is likely one of M31's closest companions.
Look again another night and report back to us if it's right beside M31 or not.
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BillFerris
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/17/04
Posts: 2471
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Quote:
Bill,
The obvious problem with Jason's sketch being M32 is that M32 is round. ... [snip]
It's not unusual for M32 to appear oval and elongated at the eyepiece. Here, are a couple of sketches showing this: Link #1 and Link #2.
The first, in particular, is an excellent match with Jason's sketch. It shows the galaxy's oval shape and obviously stellar nucleus. Given the available information, I find M32 to be the better match.
Regards,
Bill in Flagstaff
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Grand Canyon Adventure
Lowering the Threshold
18" Obsession
4.5" Meade 4500
10x50 Swift Audubon
Cosmic Voyage
Edited by BillFerris (07/31/06 03:12 PM)
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Jaycin
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/09/06
Posts: 2139
Loc: SW FLorida, USA
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Thank you all,
I was observing this object while it was close to zenith and the Milky Way was plainly visible, just to give you an idea of my conditions.
Bill, while I'll agree the first sketch is very close, the second shows it in the wrong position and too close to M31 from my perspective.
I appreciate everyones help. I'm going to continue to observe M31 and Co. until I get this thing figured out.
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Jason
Zhumell 8" Dobsonian
60mm Meade Telestar
Sketching the Cosmos
Messier countdown: 102 down, 8 to go!
Yalta Observatory- North Port, FL
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Dain
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/24/05
Posts: 572
Loc: Upstate New York
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Jason,
At about what time were you viewing this object? NGC 147 kind of fits the picture, but it would be really late before this hit around zenith. Hmm.. let me see, other galaxies that are kind of within that vicinity that fit the sketch....NGC 7640, NGC 7331 ( this was my first guess..I had viewed this late last night myself and it was pretty close to zenith..it matches you sketch at high power )..and that looks like all I can find that matches the sketch in my software. There is heavy galaxy population within Andromeda, Cassiopeia, and Pegasus but most of them have extremely low surface brightness and are very faint, especially in an 8" dob.
Let us know when you find out. You have me all curious now! :]
regards,
Dain
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Regards,
Your CN Friend-
Dain
You can't reach for the stars.....if you can't see them. Fight Light Pollution.
Adirondack Public Observatory
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snorkler
Aperture Aficionado
Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 7903
Loc: Bay Area, California
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Jason,
Look at the middle sketch of the top row at this link. NGC 205 is in the upper left, just outside the circle. The little fuzzball to the right of M31 is M32. Do you think you could have skipped right past that and thought it was a star?
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Lotteries are a tax on people who don't understand math - Snorkler
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Jaycin
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/09/06
Posts: 2139
Loc: SW FLorida, USA
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Quote:
At about what time were you viewing this object? NGC 147 kind of fits the picture, but it would be really late before this hit around zenith.
Dain,
Thanks for your help. 
I began observing this object at 3:48 AM EST 7/29/06. I'm at 27.044, -82.236 if that helps.
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Jason
Zhumell 8" Dobsonian
60mm Meade Telestar
Sketching the Cosmos
Messier countdown: 102 down, 8 to go!
Yalta Observatory- North Port, FL
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Jaycin
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/09/06
Posts: 2139
Loc: SW FLorida, USA
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Quote:
NGC 205 is in the upper left, just outside the circle. The little fuzzball to the right of M31 is M32. Do you think you could have skipped right past that and thought it was a star?
Darrell,
I think you've nailed it! Thanks a million! I just spent several minutes trying to find M32 in the sketch, so it's no wonder I've been missing it. The position of M110/NGC 205 in relation to M31 is identicle to what I've been seeing. Now that I know where to look for M32, I should be able to find it (hopefully tonight). If I do, I'll post a sketch of it here.
Thanks to you all for your efforts!
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Jason
Zhumell 8" Dobsonian
60mm Meade Telestar
Sketching the Cosmos
Messier countdown: 102 down, 8 to go!
Yalta Observatory- North Port, FL
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Dain
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/24/05
Posts: 572
Loc: Upstate New York
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Jason,
I'm agreeing with David also. I was going to say M110 but I was thinking that that was too close in reference to what you were explaining.
OK, so definitely...your time matches up quite perfect in relation to where M110 would be at that time which you quoted being " 3:48 AM EST 7/29/06. I'm at 27.044, -82.236 if that helps".
Good to see you've finally nailed the object.
Clear skies my friend,
Dain
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Regards,
Your CN Friend-
Dain
You can't reach for the stars.....if you can't see them. Fight Light Pollution.
Adirondack Public Observatory
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Jaycin
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/09/06
Posts: 2139
Loc: SW FLorida, USA
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Thanks Dain,
Now that I'm sure of what I've been viewing, I should have a much easier time finding M32. I'm going to give it a shot tonight. Thanks again!
Clear skies to you,
Jason
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Jason
Zhumell 8" Dobsonian
60mm Meade Telestar
Sketching the Cosmos
Messier countdown: 102 down, 8 to go!
Yalta Observatory- North Port, FL
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Paul_R
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/05/05
Posts: 1545
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I'll still reiterate my point that your scope and your eyes are good ones! As is your drawing/sketching ability!
Catching M110 that well in the early stages of an observing career is a great sign.
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Jaycin
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/09/06
Posts: 2139
Loc: SW FLorida, USA
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Well everyone, I owe you all an apology. It seems that I have been giving you all inacurate information regarding the position of what I thought was M110. I got a chance to spend a long time observing this galaxy trio last night and have concluded that Bill was right all along. When I first observed M32 I was viewing M31 at 133X, so it's position appeared to be much further than it really was. It's shape at 266X (my original sketch) was elongated and looked nothing like what I expected M32 to look like. The fact that every picture I've seen and even the sketch that Darrell linked to showed the 3 galaxies "upside down" from what I have been viewing. My guess is that all of these pic's were taken or drawn when they were on the opposite side of the sky from my current perspective.
I'll let you all decide for yourselves. Here's the sketch I made:
Once again, my appologies for a newby error. Thanks for all of your help!
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Jason
Zhumell 8" Dobsonian
60mm Meade Telestar
Sketching the Cosmos
Messier countdown: 102 down, 8 to go!
Yalta Observatory- North Port, FL
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snorkler
Aperture Aficionado
Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 7903
Loc: Bay Area, California
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Hey, as long as you have them correctly identified now... Most of us pay no attention to orientation because the views are inverted or reversed between different scopes. If I look at M31/M32/NGC 205 through my RACI refractor, SCT, and Dob, the views are going to be oriented differently in each one.
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Lotteries are a tax on people who don't understand math - Snorkler
Edited by snorkler (08/03/06 12:24 AM)
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BillFerris
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/17/04
Posts: 2471
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Hi Jason,
Absolutely no apology is needed. There isn't an observer alive who hasn't had a similar experience. Many's the night I've misidentified an object or gotten lost trying to starhop somewhere. I once spent nearly an hour trying to starhop to M13 only to realize I wasn't even in Hercules. But that potential of the unexpected is a big part of what makes this hobby so fun. And in the long run, it's such experiences that make us better observers.
BTW, very nice sketches of M31, M32 and M110. Keep 'em coming.
Bill in Flagstaff
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Grand Canyon Adventure
Lowering the Threshold
18" Obsession
4.5" Meade 4500
10x50 Swift Audubon
Cosmic Voyage
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Dain
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/24/05
Posts: 572
Loc: Upstate New York
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Jason,
No worries my friend, happens to the best of us.That's right where I like to view that trio in one of the 8" dobs I have...right @ 49x. It's a good view!
regards,
Dain
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Regards,
Your CN Friend-
Dain
You can't reach for the stars.....if you can't see them. Fight Light Pollution.
Adirondack Public Observatory
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Jaycin
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/09/06
Posts: 2139
Loc: SW FLorida, USA
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Thank you all!
It is great to finally have this thing sorted out. Now I can concentrate on the rest of the Messier catalog. I found M33 this morning and I had a real hard time sketching it. It's just so faint, it's hard to draw. I managed to bag 5 total this morning. That brings me up to 31...only 79 to go!
Thanks again and clear skies to all of you!
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Jason
Zhumell 8" Dobsonian
60mm Meade Telestar
Sketching the Cosmos
Messier countdown: 102 down, 8 to go!
Yalta Observatory- North Port, FL
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