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EdZ
Professor EdZ
   
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12499
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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If so, this is the time of year to see it.
Again last night, I went out very late. I was stumbling around in the dark at 2:00 AM to gather up my gear and get outside for an unplanned viewing session. Having been dark adapted for about an hour when I stepped out within the first 2 minutes I could easily see both mag 5.4 stars on my Delphinus chart, and several times I saw mag 5.7 averted. Ahh, the nights of August. Some of the best viewing of the year.
A few trips in and out and I had the BT100 all set up out back. I grabbed the 16x70s, but couldn't find all the parts to mount (QR plate and L bracket), and the 25x100s were standing there all mounted and ready to go, so they came out instead.
First was North America nebula in the 25x100s. Fairly easy to find and I could see the brighter portions. And then I took a quick look at the faint cluster 6940, easily saw 30-40 stars. This cluster reminds me of 7789 in Cas. But then I carried the 25x100s out back near the BT100 and settled in.
Once all set up, I scoped a few easier items. M33 was found quickly. I could see the fainter extensions toward the outer edges with a very much brighter center spot. Nearby Mesartim was a quick double. Noticed focus was slightly out, so adjusted a bit. Slight flares on bright stars were reduced with better focus. The night was looking good, so I moved the 25x100s over to see if I could find M74.
Needed my charts to search for M74. Re recent discussions about charts, my trusty field notebook is a 3 ring binder of all photocopies from my SA2000 charts. This chart photocopy notebook is a necessity for me. At first I was looking at the wrong spot, several tries before I realized the scale of my field of view. Once I got that sorted out, I spotted it. M74 was never in constant view, but with averted vision, or scanning over it, it would pop into view. I kept the 25x100s on this for a long time. This is only maybe the 3rd or 4th night I've ever seen M74. Saw it atleast a dozen times.
Some easy stuff first with the BT100. The Double Cluster was naked eye. The BT had the 14mm radians, and at 44x, the DC looks outstanding covering the entire field of view. But I needed to change eyepieces. I got the 26 TV plossls focused in the BT. That gives me 24x and the biggest exit pupil I can get out of my BT. Skipped over all the busy work in this area (see last week's observing post) and quickly hopped my way over to Kemble's Cascade.
I was thinking the SA2000 charts might fall a little short here, so I went back inside and grabbed my Uranometria 2000. I wanted to make sure I could zero in on the exact spot to locate IC342. The deeper detail in U2000 assured me I was on the right spot. I even narrowed down the area to a small portion of my field of view. I was dead on the spot. Would this be the night?
Throughout the night, I was beginning to think how bright it was outside. My son's black cat, Shadow, often joins me outside for these late night sessions. He visits about every ten minutes, I can tell by the bump when he rubs up against the tripod leg. Last night he decided to lay on the table, right on top of my charts! I could see Shadow 20 feet away. I needed to cover my eyes at the eyepieces to block out all the skylight. And this was a mag 5.7-5.4 sky!
For the next hour, I went back and forth between binocs. I saw M74 several more times before I moved the 25x100s away for some other easier objects. But for the rest of the night I kept the BT100s (23.8x100) centered on IC342. It was nice to have the altitude slow motion control on the BT100 mount. IC342 was rising almost straight up and it was easy to follow. I could draw a sketch now of the mag 10-11 star pattern surrounding this galaxy.
I scanned my eyes over this 2° fov many times, knowing my object was right in the center. I noticed I was catching M74 in my averted vision when it was placed just off center towards the 1 oclock position. I moved the BT so I had IC342 in the same position.
Numerous times I thought my averted vision picked up an ever-so-faint brighteneing in this area. Once or twice I even thought it looked the same way it looks when you catch a very faint cluster in averted vision. The background sort of looks brighter, but when you look right at it, it's not there. That's how it went for the next hour. Ahh, I think that's it! But then, Oh, where is that, now I can't see it.
When I did suspect something, it was larger than M74. It was so spread out, it didn't concentrate in any one spot. But once again, I felt I could not confirm it was there. Oh, I know it's there, but I just could not confirm it. For instance, on M74, I would see it averteed, and I would pass over it and catch it several times in a row. I would say I could see M74 for 5-10 seconds out of each minute spent at the eyepieces. For IC342, I would have to say I thought I could just glimpse it for a moment out of every several minutes, and not even every time I tried. I need a stronger confirmation than that to say, I C 342.
It was getting on to about 4AM, and I noticed it was getting more difficult to see. I think the sky was getting brighter. A few times I tried and could not pick out mag 5.4 stars.
I tried a few more targets before I packed it in. With the 25x100s, I tried for the California nebula, but didn't see it. A few clusters, in Perseus, 1502, 1528, 1545, 1513. Then between Perseus and Auriga, 1582 and 1664. All seen, 1513 and 1664 were the faintest. M45 came up over the treetops while I was busy. I finished off the night by looking for a few deep stars. I saw "little orion" and spotted B21 and B26 (my charts) for a faintest star at mag 11.5. That was going to do it for the night. It was now 4:30 and the sky was noticably brighter. I considered it a good night and packed it in.
edz
-------------------- Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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milt
sage
   
Reged: 09/13/04
Posts: 424
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
for the rest of the night I kept the BT100s (23.8x100) centered on IC342.
Hi Ed,
Great OR, which brought back (with the help of my observing notes) memories of my first sighting of IC 342. From your description, so did you! My first time was through my 100mm binoscope while working on Sue French's January 2004 Small Scope Sampler. My notes say "Oval appearing haze speckled with stars that make border difficult." Then, interestingly I wrote "Stood out better at 27x." I must have tried higher mag's but settled on 27x (my lowest mag). Did you have the same experience?
IC342 is also Caldwell object 5 and in his book Stephen James O'Meara states: "Unfortunately for us, IC342 lies only 11° above the plane of our galaxy, where dense gas and dust dim the extragalactic spiral's light by nearly 3 magnitudes....Under a very dark sky, IC342 is easily seen in 7x35 binoculars" As we have concluded in the past, sky darkness is far more important than aperture for these low surface brightness objects.
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Throughout the night, I was beginning to think how bright it was outside.
I have often noticed this effect as well. When I first step out the sky looks inky black, but after a couple of hours when I am fully dark adapted it seems to glow. But, I can still see mag 5.7 stars naked eye and faint fuzzies in the eyepiece(s). An interesting illusion!
-------------------- Clear skies, Milt
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Art Fritzson
sage
   
Reged: 01/29/05
Posts: 315
Loc: Northern Virginia, USA
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Great report Ed! Terrific observations!
Quote:
Throughout the night, I was beginning to think how bright it was outside. ... I needed to cover my eyes at the eyepieces to block out all the skylight.
Funny how this seems to happen on the darkest nights - maybe it's the transparency that just allows all those starlight photons to be caught. I've experienced that too and wondered how it was I could see anything - but it's those nights that I see everything!
Quote:
Numerous times I thought my averted vision picked up an ever-so-faint brighteneing in this area. Once or twice I even thought it looked the same way it looks when you catch a very faint cluster in averted vision. The background sort of looks brighter, but when you look right at it, it's not there. That's how it went for the next hour. Ahh, I think that's it! But then, Oh, where is that, now I can't see it.
Boy, do I know that feeling! You've captured it perfectly! Sometmes I start to think my targets are deliberately teasing me. That's when I know it's time to pack up.
Really enjoyed this one Ed - Thanks for sharing it!
- Art
-------------------- 2006 "Bagging on a Budget" Award for Excellence in Binocular Astronomy
Garrett 25x100 IF, Oberwerk 15x70, Celestron Noble 10x50, Meade 10x50 and 8x42 Travelviews
William Optics Zenithstar II 80mm APO
Teleport 10" - an incredible all-in-one Planetary/DSO/"Grab and Go"
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
   
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12499
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Mark9473 asked
Quote:
Ed, it would interest me to know if, from the specs or your experience, IC 342 is likely harder or easier to catch than IC 443 in Gemini. This one I've seen with 10x50s under mag 6.5-7 skies.
--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80
WO Megrez II 80 FD
Hmmm. All I could find out about IC443 is that it may be a SN Remnant, it requires an OIII filter to see and the only reference to it (NSOG) gave a 12-14" scope?? I've never seen it.
edz
-------------------- Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
Edited by EdZ (08/10/06 10:11 AM)
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Mark9473
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 2663
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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wow... to say that I saw something with 10x50s that's listed as requiring an OIII filter on a 12-14" scope! Who's ever going to believe that?
-------------------- Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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MikeRatcliff
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 1105
Loc: Redlands, CA
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Ed,
My best view of IC 342 was at the Grandview campground in the White Mountains of California a couple of years ago. The oval glow was unmistakeable in 7x35 Walmart-grade binoculars and in a 6" dob. There was no averted imagination needed!
Most other times I have just seen hints of nebulosity with averted vision etc, even in a good night last night with a 16".
It may be my imagination, but there seems to be (strangely) some hint of foreground stars in the area that confounds the observation, much like resolving a few stars on a difficult globular cluster. Could this be pieces of the galaxy? Has anyone else seen this?
Mike
-------------------- 16" f/4.9 dob
Tele Vue Plossls 32,25,20,15,11
13 Nagler T6
10.5 Pentax XL
Brandon 32, 16
12.5 UO ortho, 9 Circle T ortho
2x TV Barlow
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
   
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12499
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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The continued quest for IC 342
Several nights recently the sky has been pretty transparent. Milky Way has been visible a lot lately. And I've been mixing up my viewing sessions between late nite and early morning.
Tues. Sept 26, 4-5 AM Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
I woke early and went out just to observe a different sky than usual. The instant attraction to M42 captured my attention for a brief period, it's just so darned beautiful to look at. The Ultras saw extension forming long wings curved out NW and SE with the little ball of M43 at the head. The Trapezium was clearly visible as 4 components. I scanned around at leisure for a while (I'll need to post a separate general report, saw lot's of nice stuff), but noticing how nice the sky was, I decided to try again for IC 342.
I didn't have any charts out with me, so I took a crack at this from memory. From the NW edge of Kemble's Cascade, there is a a 3 star (mag 5) wedge pointing north. Follow that point north about one binoc FOV and there is a single bright star. Continue north another FOV and there are two mag7? stars separated by 1.5 to 2 degrees. Several fainter stars border between these two, just to the east. Between them is IC 342. I thought I saw it immediately. There was was clearly a broad diffuse glow located a little off center and closer to the northerly star. I suspected seeing it every time I looked at this spot.
Wed, Sept 27, 4-5 AM temp 48° Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
Out again with conditions same as yesterday. I spent a minute or two looking arond naked eye and found 3-4 stars all mag 5.5. I didn't try very hard, so I suspect NELM was a bit fainter than that.
I went right for IC 342. Once again, (and without charts), I followed the path from Kemble's Cascade pointing north. This time I landed on the spot of IC 342 and immediately saw it. There is no question, the faint glow was quite obvious. Position was the same as yesterday. Some other objetcs I observed this morning that all appeared brighter were M76, M78 and M1. I'd say of these M1 came closest. The glow of IC 342 (not really a glow, more like a thin gauze) was sort of like the fainter background portions of the North America nebula, not anything near as bright as the Gulf of Mexico portion. When you look at the North America nebula, there appears sometimes to be a very faint extension of the diffuse nebula that extends out north and west of the Gulf of Mexico. In the region of Canada, it's difficult to see where it ends. This is similar in some respects to how IC 342 appears.
There was no question that a large circular diffuse patch was present in the view. It was not really brighter towards the center, but it was difficult to see exactly where the diffuse edges ended. I would describe it as an evenly bright diffuse patch about 20-30 arcmin in diameter. It could be seen looking right at it. It could be seen panning over it. It was distinctly present in the view no matter what method of viewing was used.
These observations from the last two mornings show the position and appearance exactly located where I thought I suspected the presence of extremely faint diffuse spot several times in previous observations. I am sure now that some of those times that I suspected the presence of something I did actually see it. Today there was not reason to question or suspect. It was plainly visible.
I spent an hour scanning the skies looking at clusters and just patches of dense star clouds in the Cas-Per Milky Way. I returned to IC 342 at least a dozen times and saw it each time I returned.
What a wonderful morning this turned out to be!
edz
-------------------- Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
   
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14594
Loc: Hurricane Alley
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Congrats on your success.
Yes, M42 is quite the showpiece. Last week, when I saw it about 2:00am, it was still mired in the skyglow, low on the eastern horizon. I can't wait until Autumn is in full-swing and M42 is visible without waiting up until the wee-hours of the morning.
Thanks for the heads-up on IC342. I'll have to remember that one when I make it out to a darker site. I enjoy a good challenge and this sounds like one. M1 is another challenge I will be attempting again this Autumn/Winter.
Re: the 15x70 Obie Ultras - easily seperating A-through-D of the Trap speaks well for the resolution of the Ultra. On the best of nights, A-through-D of the Trap is just barely detectable in my 15x70 Skymaster.
Clear dark skies...
MikeG
-------------------- Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
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Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
   
Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 1030
Loc: NE Ohio
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Ed,
An impressive observation indeed. I remember looking at IC 342 under NLM~7 skies in SE Ohio and was thorouhgly underwhelmed at what I could see. Fishing that out of a suburban sky is a feat, to say the least.
Clear Skies,
Phil
-------------------- "Why suffer from insanity when you can revel in it?"
Wilderness Center Astronomy Club member since 1995
ICQ Comet Observer Code: CRE01
*****
16" f/4.5 Truss Dobsonian (FOR SALE!!)
Orion 120mm ST Refractor
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9mm Nagler Type 6
1.75X Siebert Barlow
*****
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milt
sage
   
Reged: 09/13/04
Posts: 424
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
This time I landed on the spot of IC 342 and immediately saw it.
Ed,
Great job with your 15x70!
I did a little DSO hunting at Okie-Tex with Casper (32x82) and all I had to show for it before I was dewed out was globular 288 and galaxies 613 and 1097 (Caldwell 67). C67 had eluded me for some time so it was cool to see it for the first time in a bino.
As Bill remarked, the sky darkness did not blow us away.
-------------------- Clear skies, Milt
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MikeRatcliff
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 1105
Loc: Redlands, CA
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Congratulations Ed!
-------------------- 16" f/4.9 dob
Tele Vue Plossls 32,25,20,15,11
13 Nagler T6
10.5 Pentax XL
Brandon 32, 16
12.5 UO ortho, 9 Circle T ortho
2x TV Barlow
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stevecoe
   
Reged: 04/24/04
Posts: 2114
Loc: Arizona, USA
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Howdy all;
Here is an observation from the Arizona Sky Village in southeastern Arizona. I rated the transparency at 8 out of 10.
IC 342 15X70 binoculars very faint, pretty small, just barely there at all. 4" f/6 refractor 21mm Stratus EP faint, pretty large, very, very little brighter middle, elongated 1.5X1. Averted vision helps a lot on this object. There are several faint stars superimposed, so it looks like a poor star cluster with several members resolved across a faint background, but, it is a galaxy.
Clear Skies to us all; Steve Coe
-------------------- 150mm 6" f/8 Celestron Refractor on Sirius Mount
80mmED 3" f/7.5 Orion Refractor
Author "Deep Sky Observing" Springer-Verlag
Author "Nebulae and How to Observe Them" Springer
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
   
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12499
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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This particular object, IC 342, has been a quest of mine for several years. It stands to reason if you try to observe something enough times, eventually conditions will be right enough to see it. I tried again this morning and could only suspect seeing it, nothing like yesterday. But yesterday M110 stood out, today it was not as easy.
There's probably no irony in the fact I saw it first with binoculars. Not only have I tried many more times with binoculars, but I can name a number of objects I have seen ONLY with binoculars. the Merope nebula, the Rosette nebula, and now IC342. And other objetcs that I found first with binoculars, M33, M101, NGC 7331.
edz
-------------------- Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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mplkn1
sage
Reged: 08/28/05
Posts: 393
Loc: Centrally Inaccessible, PA
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Quote:
And other objetcs that I found first with binoculars, M33, M101, NGC 7331.
edz
EdZ -
This statement of yours as an experienced observer is meaningful to me as one still starting out.
So far, I've many objects in my modest but growing list that I've only observed in my 20x80s, and for a reason I'm not proud to admit: While the 8" SCT blows any of my binoculars away once upon an object, I need to get much better at re-finding the object with the scope after finding it in the 20x80s! My trouble arises, I think, from three factors:
* As I move the SCT around the sky on its GEM, the position of the OTA relative to the ground changes radically - there's no "top", compounded by the fact that I rotate the diagonal to achieve a comfortable viewing position.
* The reversed view compounds the above as I move the scope around while looking through it. I'm often stll unable to predict the direction of movement that turning RA and Dec. will produce at the eyepiece. There are a lot of relative directions of motion involved!
* The narrow angle of view doesn't help either.
I hit on a method of using the Telrad to land the scope as close as I can to the spot I've first seen with binoculars, then establishing a kind of search grid, counting turns of the flexible control stalks I've mounted on my GEM (no motors), working outward and around the initial spot.
This method has worked reasonably well, although I'm still getting used to it, especially, as I said, when the scope is at a weird angle.
So, among my list of identified objects there are many that I've found first using the 20x80s, then wrestled into view with the SCT, as well as a number that I've only seen through the 20x80s. On the other hand, when I have less time or just want an easy evening of viewing, I often take only the 10x60s and 20x80s out. In both use cases, the smaller serves as a kind of finder for the larger: the 10x60s for the 20x80s, and the 20x80s for the SCT. As for the SCT, I think it's time for me to stop reading about the setting circles on my mount and start trying to use them. Might have to get a polar alignment scope, or perhaps a finding scope with an erect, non-reversed image, to facilitate transfering between the glasses and the scope.
Very often, the view in the 20x80s is more than satisfying enough, especially when my goal is to locate and positively identify previously (for me) unseen objects.
Congrats on chasing down your elusive target! There appear to be no limits to growth in this avocation!
Best wishes,
-------------------- Michael -
"In this world, shipmates, sin that pays its way can travel freely, and without a passport; whereas Virtue, if a pauper, is stopped at all frontiers." Father Mapple, Moby Dick.
Orion (Celestron) 8" SCT on SkyView Pro,
Garrett Optical Gemini 25x100 WP,
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Bogen 3051 tripod w/ 3063 head, dual handles,
Telrad,
Palm Planetarium,
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MikeRatcliff
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 1105
Loc: Redlands, CA
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Michael,
You may want to add a RACI (right angle correct image) finder, say 50mm, to your scope. Then you can more easily match up star patterns between the scope and bino's. I have a 60mm RACI finder and it has been a tremendous addition to a Telrad.
Mike
-------------------- 16" f/4.9 dob
Tele Vue Plossls 32,25,20,15,11
13 Nagler T6
10.5 Pentax XL
Brandon 32, 16
12.5 UO ortho, 9 Circle T ortho
2x TV Barlow
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
   
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12499
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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I know this is a scope answer, but i'll post it here anyway. I probably know the sky as well as I do because I learned a long time ago how to move around with a GEM (German Equatoral Mount). I still have to look up and see which way the scope is moving when I turn the Dec dial, but RA to me is simple. I wrote these two articles a long time ago on how I use my GEM. I rely heavily on the vernier scale and I can almost always land right on an object.
Have a read here:
http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=412
http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=411
edz
-------------------- Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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