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Equipment Discussions >> ATM, Optics and DIY Forum

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MMICKELSAdministrator
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Re: Post a picture of the scope you made new [Re: Art Bianconi]
      #1084295 - 08/08/06 07:23 PM Attachment (316 downloads)

The pic isn't the best quality but here goes.

--------------------
Mark

"Never eat more than you can lift"

Miss Piggy






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trainsktg
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Re: Post a picture of the scope you made new [Re: MMICKELS]
      #1084328 - 08/08/06 07:40 PM

Mark, Art and Ravneberg,

Stunning scopes, all.

Mark's fine craftsmanship and unusual takes on common designs...Art's more exotic (in the US) Schief and H-a scopes, and Mark...that skeletal dob...fantastic.

I'm very impressed gentlemen.

Keith

PS: Art, having constructed the Schief, would you recommend it or a Brachyt as a first try at a folded reflector? I'm guessing the Brachyt would be easier, but...

--------------------
He was a good little monkey and always very curious.


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Tom L

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Re: Post a picture of the scope you made new [Re: MMICKELS]
      #1084329 - 08/08/06 07:40 PM

Here is mine..."Endurance"

12.5" f/6 Discovery mirror in a strut design.



--------------------
Tom
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount


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Art Bianconi
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Re: Post a picture of the scope you made *DELETED* *DELETED* new [Re: rwiederrich]
      #1084339 - 08/08/06 07:46 PM

Post deleted by Art Bianconi

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theoUK
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Re: Post a picture of the scope you made new [Re: rwiederrich]
      #1084366 - 08/08/06 08:03 PM Attachment (256 downloads)

Hi,

...the only scope I ever made, yet. My f5 80mm surplus shed refractor for camping trips - it weighs less than 2kg. It has a PVC tube, wooden DIY rings and I recently finished my MK3 Crayford from salvaged anodised 6mm aluminium - all constructed with handtools (a bit of a struggle but it works). The objective is surprisingly good for $30. Its my attempt to join the travelscope revolution!

Theo
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/t.allnutt/campscope2.jpg

--------------------
Vixen SP
TAL-150P
Surplus shed f5 travel scope


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Art Bianconi
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Re: Post a picture of the scope you made new [Re: rwiederrich]
      #1084378 - 08/08/06 08:09 PM Attachment (232 downloads)

Yes Rob, it is totally unobstructed. Being ignorant of Star Testing, and, at that time, not having yet read Sutter's book, I looked quizically at the out-of-focus image and wondered:"Where is my dark spot! Someone stole my dark spot!"

The Primary is indeed under the secondary and you can mount the scope in virtually any orientation you wish. If it's on a GEM, which this one is, as soon as you do the ". . . over-the-rop-dance" it will see both attitudes.

Yes, I own this scope now and it will be in use and on display at the NJ Astronomical Association's observatory later this week as part of a two hour presentation I will be giving to their Research Group on the design intent, mirror making, trepanning, potential pitfalls and what ever other areas the audience takes me to during the Q & A.

It will see a second iteration cradle when I replace the heavy aluminum and wood cradle withone made from foam core and covered with bidirectional fiberglass. The current one is needlessly heavy. What this scope loves best, especially with that long secondary tube, is a fork mount.

Art
=======================

--------------------
“Everything is on its way to somewhere. . . . . everything!"

____________________ George Malley (John Travolta)
________________________ "Phenomenon"


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rwiederrich
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Re: Post a picture of the scope you made new [Re: Tom L]
      #1084396 - 08/08/06 08:21 PM

Quote:

Let's try to keep it to things that have actually been built...




Tom Have some of these scopes not been built? Are some just mindscopes?

They sure look real. Well maybe not the computer generated ones. But don't those represent the actual scope?

Rob

--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
Providing a great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.



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rwiederrich
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Re: Post a picture of the scope you made new [Re: Tom L]
      #1084407 - 08/08/06 08:28 PM

Quote:

Here is mine..."Endurance"

12.5" f/6 Discovery mirror in a strut design.







Tom, I've been meaning to ask, how in the world does that truss attach to the altitude bearing?

Looks like it might be a weak point. Great looking scope though, fer sure.

Rob

--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
Providing a great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.



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rwiederrich
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Re: Post a picture of the scope you made new [Re: Art Bianconi]
      #1084419 - 08/08/06 08:31 PM

Quote:

It's a refractor obviously and the filtering mechanisms are just about 6 inches forward of the "Bathroom pipe"rack focuser. (Removed in the previous photo)

Here's one view, a rendering, of the optical system done in SolidWorks.

Art
===============
==========================




Now it might just be my poor observational skills, but it appears as if there is some heat discoloration at the focal end of the that solar scope. Is this caused by the heat generated from the filters near the focal point????

Rob

--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
Providing a great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.



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rwiederrich
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Re: Post a picture of the scope you made new [Re: Art Bianconi]
      #1084435 - 08/08/06 08:40 PM

Great scope Art, great.

I really am impressed with the primary/secondary mount you have drawn. The math involved in its fabrication must be stagering. Nice, for sure.

I'de like to see that when it gets built....


Rob

--------------------
www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
Providing a great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.



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Art Bianconi
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Is the Schief easier to build? new [Re: trainsktg]
      #1084439 - 08/08/06 08:43 PM Attachment (232 downloads)

Hi Mark!

Without having seen the Brachyt, I am not in a position to make any comparisons.

Having said that there are several things you should know.

First, David Groski has this uncanny nack for "Making a Silk Purse out of a Sow's ear".

I tend to complicate matters. I go for exotic solutions; Dave is forever coaching me on the KISS principle. He keeps thim simple and affordable far better than I.

Both his 4.25" and 6" Schief share this design intent in common and make fabrication simple. So simple in fact, that I know an airline pilot who built one!

Both of Dave's design use spherical mirrors. No need to go through the "parabolizing crazies".

The tool for making the primary is polished until it's within 0.5% of the RC of the primary. It's then polished some more using a simple interference test done with a home made light source until it matches the F/L of the primary. Then it's trepanned to the smaller diameter secondary size, using a drill press, a hole saw and some mirror grit.

There was no existing structural geometry, just the light paths and ray tracings for the optics. That meant I had to start from scratch. (I wonder how that airline pilot managed? They don't fly planes, they just push buttons!)

In any case, it is a simple design to construct (ask the airline pilot!). If you choose to go with the six inch variant, the only precuation I might make to insure good results is to make a one piece tube from rocket airframes from the folks at Public Missiles, and wrap it with a layer or two of light weight Bidirectional fiberglass. If you use a fork mount, this caveat can be ignoredas the scope will always be in essentially the same attitude.

However, with a fork mount, inevitably you will get to that DSO or planet whose position means flipping the scope "over the top".

If the secodnary tube lacks the mechancial stiffness, it will flex in the other direction and "poof!" there goes your collimation.

This is not a problem in the optical design but a failure on my part to anticipate the loads such movements generate in an optical system and either design it and/or build it properly.

You MUST have a good finder scope and it must be "zeroed in" with the main system or the scope is practically of no use except on the moon, which for some people is fine.

Remember that with a 4810mm focal length, even a super wide field eyepiece like a Meade 24.5 (my favorite) generates a magnification of close to 200 X!

Longer eyepieces (40mm and up) will help some finding things but if you don't have the finder scope in good working order, you'll invent cuss words.

It's a remarkable telescope with clarity and contrast that blows peoples minds and, it does it with garbage eyepieces!

I would not swap it for anything else as a highly effective portable planetary scope. That it's inexpensive to build adds to it's value.

Here is a shot of a 4.25 inch Schief built by Bill Cheng who just happoens to be an airline pilot. Somehow, he managed to build this thing. Last time I looked, he still had ten fingers.



Art
======================

--------------------
“Everything is on its way to somewhere. . . . . everything!"

____________________ George Malley (John Travolta)
________________________ "Phenomenon"


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Art Bianconi
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Heat inside the H-Alpha scope new [Re: rwiederrich]
      #1084459 - 08/08/06 08:51 PM

There is an 80mm Wratten D filter on the objective end, just in front of the primary lens. There is no heat inside at all.

That is merely a rendering of the optics as I have no other way of showing the inside in a way that is comprehensible.

Art
===========================

--------------------
“Everything is on its way to somewhere. . . . . everything!"

____________________ George Malley (John Travolta)
________________________ "Phenomenon"


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trainsktg
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Re: Heat inside the H-Alpha scope new [Re: Art Bianconi]
      #1084489 - 08/08/06 09:14 PM

Art,

Thanks for the details (Heh, heh...poor pilots).

The 'classical' Schief as designed by Anton Kuttner uses the spherical mirror you described and a convex secondary...is this what you were describing with the trepanning of the primary tool? Sounds like it, but we wire pullers are probably a bit slower than your pilot friend.
The Brachyt (also by Kuttner...what a great guy) uses the same spherical mirror with an optical flat secondary that doesn't give the magnifiction of the Schief's secondary. The use of the optical flat in the Brachyt probably speeds construction, and definitely keeps things simple(r)...which is good for me.

Keith

--------------------
He was a good little monkey and always very curious.


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trainsktg
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Re: Heat inside the H-Alpha scope new [Re: trainsktg]
      #1084498 - 08/08/06 09:18 PM

Theo,

Nothing wrong with that little scope. Is it possible to see a closeup of the focuser?

Keith

--------------------
He was a good little monkey and always very curious.


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Tom L

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Re: Post a picture of the scope you made new [Re: rwiederrich]
      #1084804 - 08/08/06 11:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Let's try to keep it to things that have actually been built...




Tom Have some of these scopes not been built? Are some just mindscopes?

They sure look real. Well maybe not the computer generated ones. But don't those represent the actual scope?

Rob




Rob, you are correct. And I owe Art an apology for deleting one of his posts without talking to him about it first.

--------------------
Tom
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount


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trainsktg
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Re: Post a picture of the scope you made new [Re: Tom L]
      #1084809 - 08/08/06 11:45 PM

I was wondering what happened to the thread. 'Access Denied'...sorta made me feel guilty. Did I do It?, and all that.

Glad to see it back.

Keith (Never mind, Rob)

--------------------
He was a good little monkey and always very curious.


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rboeAdministrator
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Re: Post a picture of the scope you made new [Re: trainsktg]
      #1084853 - 08/09/06 12:08 AM

Art; those Schiefs are very interesting designs - very facinating - but that narrow field of view!

--------------------
Ron


NS11GPS
Pronto
16" dob
15X70 Obies



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Art Bianconi
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Re: Post a picture of the scope you made new [Re: rwiederrich]
      #1084893 - 08/09/06 12:23 AM

The only images I had of the H-ALpha gimbals and optics in response to the questions asked were computer generated and appeared to be out of the context of this string. There is no way to use photos to get the idea across.

I can understand Tom's reaction, especially when it appeared that I was ignoring his post.

Perhaps it's best, if I restrict my posts simply to the finished telescope result and no more. If there be questions on construction details, we can start another string. Otherwise this string will get sidetracked into multiple directions and really get lost.

Tom, I've no problem with you. I over reacted too. Sorry. All is well. Thanks

Art
===================

--------------------
“Everything is on its way to somewhere. . . . . everything!"

____________________ George Malley (John Travolta)
________________________ "Phenomenon"


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SkyArcher
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Re: Post a picture of the scope you made new [Re: trainsktg]
      #1084895 - 08/09/06 12:24 AM

Guys, I to your creativity. I am speechless.

--------------------
Sir Skyler Archibald.....
An 8" Deep Space Hunter
4.5 w/ GOTO
4.5 newt w/ home built Dob mount
Omphaloskepsis - I didn't realize that there is a word for what I do while waiting for web pages to download





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trainsktg
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Re: Post a picture of the scope you made new [Re: rboe]
      #1084908 - 08/09/06 12:36 AM

How much field do you need to view Saturn? They are admittedly designed for planetary use, like my 8" f26 cass (unusable below 150x).

The Germans and Swiss can't be all wrong.

Personally, I think a well-executed, usable, exotic design demands a level of craftsmanship a step above even the already fine levels of woodworkmanship shown here...if for no other reason than there are very few examples to follow.

Keith (OK, I've done it now...better go )

--------------------
He was a good little monkey and always very curious.


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