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refractory
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/05/05
Posts: 1012
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I'd guess many of these have no particular catalogue name- there seem to be hundreds (thousands) visible all over the sky. You see many obvious ones in open star clusters.
My question concerns those in more congested areas, such as in Cygnus- is there any way to know for sure which line any particular star belongs to given overlapping fields of view? I spend hours following these things, trying to work out which star goes where. Sometimes its easy, many times its not.
I've also noticed that when stars are somewhat regularly spaced along some length (of whatever curvature) there are sometimes gaps, as if a star may once have been there (and exploded? was flung out?) or is too dim in visible light to be seen. Where can I find out if there is anything in the gaps (big scope studies, etc.)?
Such beads-on-a-string structures are my favorite binocular 'objects'- I spend more time on them than anything else.
Jess Tauber
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12341
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
I've also noticed that when stars are somewhat regularly spaced along some length (of whatever curvature) there are sometimes gaps, as if a star may once have been there (and exploded? was flung out?)
Jess, are you missing a few beads? 
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14375
Loc: Hurricane Alley
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Jess -
I have seen those strings many times myself and I often do the same thing - trace the string along it's path until it stops or the remaining stars become too faint to follow. Orion's Belt has several such structures, the obvious one in M45 comes to mind, and yes, Cygnus is chock full of them. Cygnus also has so many doubles that it is impossible to tell which ones are true binaries and which ones are only apparent doubles...(impossible at a glance without charts that is) ...
I guess the string structures are a product of gravitation during the formation process. Perhaps interaction with other stellar bodies influenced a string and tugged/pushed a star out of the string. Or it went supernova like you said. Kind of like an individual bulb burning out on a string of Xmas lights.
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Jess, are you missing a few beads?
Jess has all the beads, they are just strung out. 
MikeG
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & Celestial Irons
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rushintuit
sage
Reged: 04/01/06
Posts: 257
Loc: Farpoint Observatory
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This thread could get interesting!
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/// Stellarvue SV102ED /// Nikon 12x50SE /// Fujinon 16x70 /// SkyTools 2 /// The Desktop Universe All Sky CCD Mosaic In Monochrome Mode ///
Edited by rushintuit (08/10/06 01:06 AM)
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refractory
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/05/05
Posts: 1012
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I've asked the question of origins of these strings to several people elsewhere (and on CN)- the answers seem to be combinations of gravity, magnetic fields, and gas density waves as explanations. The swirling arms of spiral galaxies may just show these writ large. Then you have spirals within the spirals, and spirals within them as well. Kinda like the way DNA gets packed into coils and supercoils, just less regularly.
In some cases I've reconstructed double helical structures, with hints of even higher orders in some open clusters. A lot of the seeming irregularity comes from the angle the structure makes with our line of sight, just as it does with galaxies.
As for the other comment sometimes I guess people just wake up on the wrong side of the even horizon....
Jess Tauber
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12341
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Considering that (unless you are looking at a cluster, which would have all the stars at the same distance and gravitationally bound to each other), even though you are looking into a spiral arm of the galaxy, the vast majority of stars may be at significantly different distances from us, much of this may be due to nothing more than chance visual alignment.
Speculation is fun though.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Art Fritzson
sage
Reged: 01/29/05
Posts: 314
Loc: Northern Virginia, USA
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They may well be "due to nothing more than chance visual alignment" when outside a cluster, but there was an interesting discussion when inside a cluster (at this link in the DSO Observing forum) about this same thing. The patterns that Jess describes were apparently perceived in the Aurigae clusters M36, M37, and M38 by different observers (including me). It was most interesting that different observers saw the patterns differently - stronger or weaker in different clusters. Historical references noted the appearance as well.
- Art
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2006 "Bagging on a Budget" Award for Excellence in Binocular Astronomy
Garrett 25x100 IF, Oberwerk 15x70, Celestron Noble 10x50, Meade 10x50 and 8x42 Travelviews
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Mark9473
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 2614
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Jess, I get as much fun as the next person from sweeping across a starfield and picking out interesting star groupings and lines and asterisms.
But I think you're wrong in assuming there is a physical process behind most of them. You really need to use a good planetarium programme to check the distances to the stars. You'll see they are often hundreds of lightyears apart.
Attached is a chart of a string of stars in Cygnus I found very conspicuous and enjoyable in my 8,5x44 a while ago. I've labelled the stars with their distance per the Hipparcos catalogue.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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refractory
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/05/05
Posts: 1012
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Art- I checked the link- interesting. These drawings remind me of what cellular microtubules look like in cross section to some extent- lots of variation depending on particular source organelle or species. Italian glass paperweight inclusions also come to mind.
Mark- can you get the program to show only stars in particular distance 'cuts' oriented in different lines of sight (kinda like what they can do with CT or MRI scans)? Or follow most-likely chain paths? Or do we know the distances to enough nearer stars? I would imagine that shared motion would also be a good info source here. I remember reading some months ago about a survey done in this manner which was able to separate out a large group of extragalactic stars that just happened to be 'passing through' the Milky Way- but these were further away.
Jess Tauber
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Art Fritzson
sage
Reged: 01/29/05
Posts: 314
Loc: Northern Virginia, USA
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Quote:
Italian glass paperweight inclusions also come to mind.
Jess, do you have any images to share of these?
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2006 "Bagging on a Budget" Award for Excellence in Binocular Astronomy
Garrett 25x100 IF, Oberwerk 15x70, Celestron Noble 10x50, Meade 10x50 and 8x42 Travelviews
William Optics Zenithstar II 80mm APO
Teleport 10" - an incredible all-in-one Planetary/DSO/"Grab and Go"
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Mark9473
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 2614
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Quote:
Mark- can you get the program to show only stars in particular distance 'cuts' oriented in different lines of sight (kinda like what they can do with CT or MRI scans)?
No, but what's the point? You're just creating another type of random distribution of stars in which our brains will find equal pleasure in detecting patterns.
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Or do we know the distances to enough nearer stars?
Yes we do.
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I would imagine that shared motion would also be a good info source here.
Indeed, both distance and proper motion need to match for any two stars to be possibly physically linked.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10031
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Personally , given the infinite number of stars out there , I feel quite disappointed by the number of truly notable asterisms we can see from this planet through binoculars .
" Joining up the dots " was one of my favourite pastimes as a young child , but I just don't seem to have sufficient averted visual imagination to blank out the stars necessary to be left with anything as distinct as say , the Coathanger , for example .
I wonder what the ancients called the coathanger in the nights before coats or their hangers were invented ?
Clearly , what I need to do is invent a few more implements which are shaped like star lines !
Inspiral spirals and clear curves ,
Kenny
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
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refractory
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/05/05
Posts: 1012
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A truly inspiraled thought, Kenny! And some thought I was just loopy...
Jess Tauber
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