JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7007
Loc: Lexington, SC
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The replacement to the 10" LX200R that replaced the two 12" LX200Rs arrived this afternoon. Thanks go to Eric and Craig at OPT. Without their help I certainly would have worked a lot harder getting this done.
The unit arrived packed as usual. On the box a magic marker said "Inspected by Mike and Scott". The inside of the OTA looked as it should. Spotless with no spiders, grease or trash.
It was quickly mounted on the LXD 650 for testing. A quick check of collimation showed it to be out considerable. It was out exactly one UPS cross country unit. But now for the test so debated in other threads. Would the shadow flip from one side of focus to the other? As the shadow offset in the upper part of the ball slowly sank into focus it emerged out the other side in.......... the upper part of the ball. Ahhhhh, finally. Optics. Meade.... we knew you could do it.
So then I focused on the same target as in the previous review here. Everything was the same. Same camera, same ASA setting, same distance, same target but one thing was different in the results. Notice how the Old (from this point forward OLD will mean the LX200R originally sent from Meade, sent back for repairs and then replaced by the NEW one today) has a longer apparent focal length than the new one. Could it be a change in production optics?
I won't draw any conclusions yet. Let you decide.
Here again is the test image at 200 feet.
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7007
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Here is the central area composite of a test image of the NEW LX200R 10" on the left and the OLD returned LX200R 10" on the right . The NEW one will image the outer and inner out of collimation shadows on the same side of the image. The OLD one flips them. May or may not have anything to do with it.
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7007
Loc: Lexington, SC
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The corners of the images:
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7007
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Now for something completly different. The Celestron 9.25 XLT was fetched on an arduous journey into remote mountain passes yesterday just for this. It also was far out of collimation. Neither the LX200R 10" or the C-9.25 are precisely collimated. Only roughly using a 20mm Pentax XW on a LED at 200 feet. Both OTAs did pretty good. Here is the side by side of the central portion of the test target. The 9.25's smaller FL shows. Looks like they both resolve pretty well to me. But then the 9.25 does have considerable magic in the optics.
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7007
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Corner comparison between Celestron 9.25 and Meade LX200R 10".
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7007
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Looks to me like Meade has sent a scope living up to it's promise. I'll know more after star testing and imaging of deepsky objects for the rest of the review. I knew the first LX200R was so far off as to not consider reviewing with it.
And finally, how bout them 9.25s??????
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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jrcrilly
Refractor wienie again
Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 22758
Loc: NE Ohio
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Hi, Jerry,
Those results are certainly more in line with my expectations. I don't suppose they'll ever share their findings about what was wrong with the other "R" OTA, but I hope you'll push to find out!
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John C
Urban Observatory
Tele Vue Pronto
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Tak FSQ-106N F/5 APO
Meade 152ED F/9 "APO"
Meade 178ED F/9 "APO"
Meade ETX-125AT
Tak CN-212 8" F/12 classical Cass/ F/4 Newt
Teeter 20" F/3.8 truss Newt w/ServoCat
LXD750, EM-200, CI-700
ST-10XME
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Joad
Wordsmith
Reged: 03/22/05
Posts: 12028
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That's dramatic stuff, Jerry!
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mikertx
super member
Reged: 09/29/05
Posts: 107
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Jerry,
The difference between the last LX200R and this one is remarkable. The focal length difference is very curious. I wonder if this is a production change or just a one-off "fix". Anyway, looks like "Mike and Scott" know their stuff. I could not be happier for you, congratulations.
As for the C-9.25, I'd say you have a "special" one for sure. Can't blame anyone on the fence for going that route can we?
Mike
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www.mikesastro.com
Scopes: C-11, Takahashi FSQ-106N, TEC140, Mini-Borg 50
Mounts: MI-250, AS-GT
Cameras: QHY-8
Edited by mikertx (08/09/06 09:24 PM)
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tboss70
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/25/05
Posts: 2092
Loc: Missouri
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Jerry, I've been told by a few people that the CO on opposite sides of focus (intra and extra focal) is astigmatism. Im not sure, though. Thanks for the report...now you have me wondering if my optics could be better. ???
Looking back on the photos you took between the OLD LX200R and the C11, it looks as though the C11 is either out of focus or not nearly as sharp as the C925 or the NEW LX200R.
What were your thoughts on this?
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Todd
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7007
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Hello John:
I think that information will not be forthcoming. The OTA had just been given a clean bill by service. If I had not seen near refractor like optics in the RCX 10" I doubt this would have gone this far. I have a high comfort level even at this early stage with this OTA. I have to think there may be a number of bad OTAs in the hands of folks that haven't gone through the Cloudy Nights training program. You just can't determine what isn't there if you have nothing to compare it to.
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7007
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Quote:
...........
Looking back on the photos you took between the OLD LX200R and the C11, it looks as though the C11 is either out of focus or not nearly as sharp as the C925 or the NEW LX200R.
What were your thoughts on this?
I want to re-run the C-11 at some point. I did not fine check the collimation on the C-11 after bringing it out of the observatory and down 4 flights of stairs. I also jarred it pulling it out of the dual dovetail plate when I took it down to mount the C-14. It may well be out. Also, I looked back at the original raw image. It does seem to be a little out of focus too. Will re-do it in a comparison with the LX200R 10" and the C-9.25. Right now the LX200R is substantially better than the previous one and there are a few stars peaking between the clouds.
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jrcrilly
Refractor wienie again
Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 22758
Loc: NE Ohio
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Quote:
I have to think there may be a number of bad OTAs in the hands of folks that haven't gone through the Cloudy Nights training program. You just can't determine what isn't there if you have nothing to compare it to.
Too true. That's why folks feel comfortable paying a premium to buy telescopes from SV or TMB, where they know the final test is under the stars. This points out a genuine need for an article or series of articles on optics checking for the amateur. I avoided the use of the word "testing"; we don't need a Suiter-style analysis. Just a "go/no go" evaluation.
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John C
Urban Observatory
Tele Vue Pronto
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Tak FSQ-106N F/5 APO
Meade 152ED F/9 "APO"
Meade 178ED F/9 "APO"
Meade ETX-125AT
Tak CN-212 8" F/12 classical Cass/ F/4 Newt
Teeter 20" F/3.8 truss Newt w/ServoCat
LXD750, EM-200, CI-700
ST-10XME
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7007
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Yes John, I was thinking that too when photographing the test chart. Maybe we can work up a series of images on the target and instruct on how to print the target, place it at a prescribed distance and at a level of illumination then provide photos of how the target should look at a prescribed "power".
It would also involve instruction in Hartman mask and collimation too.
Something to think about anyway.
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jrcrilly
Refractor wienie again
Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 22758
Loc: NE Ohio
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Quote:
Yes John, I was thinking that too when photographing the test chart. Maybe we can work up a series of images on the target and instruct on how to print the target, place it at a prescribed distance and at a level of illumination then provide photos of how the target should look at a prescribed "power".
It would also involve instruction in Hartman mask and collimation too.
Something to think about anyway.
It'd be interesting. I lost the ability to easily use targets like that when they tore the building down where my office used to be; I could attach things to that building and shoot them from my deck. From the observatory I can't see anything terrestrial; the walls keep me looking up.
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John C
Urban Observatory
Tele Vue Pronto
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Tak FSQ-106N F/5 APO
Meade 152ED F/9 "APO"
Meade 178ED F/9 "APO"
Meade ETX-125AT
Tak CN-212 8" F/12 classical Cass/ F/4 Newt
Teeter 20" F/3.8 truss Newt w/ServoCat
LXD750, EM-200, CI-700
ST-10XME
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12227
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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If I remember right Jerry, the "Old" was the same scope with not only the Spiderweb of whatever inside, but also had that "Gap" around the primary baffle shaft?
Perhaps that may be what accounts for the focal length differences in the tests... The "Old" was so far out of whack, that it actually effected the focal length? (As well as the collimation fiasco).. ???
I like the nice crisp images in the "New" test results. Good job! (And congrats on getting what may be a real Gem finally!) 
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Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
 Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7007
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Hey, thanks Jeff. Star testing will be the final test but I can already tell it will be in there with the C-11 and C-9.25 and thats some good company. Thing is, until the skies clear we won't know for sure. When I saw the collimation stay on the same side both sides of focus that was the cue this one was different. (I saw something very faintly that says we have a little problem on the figure but its still parsecs ahead of the OLD one.)
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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Moggi1964
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 2515
Loc: Madison. NJ. USA
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Morris
WO Megrez 80 ED F/7
WO 8x42 binoculars
Seymor Rosin F/4.5 Astrograph in the making
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krackerjack9
professor emeritus
Reged: 04/17/06
Posts: 611
Loc: LSA Anaconda, Iraq
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So this test that will hopefully come up, most of us dont have the photo equipment and I would think that most would like to see what it should look like. I guess what I trying to say is what would the image look like or should look like thur a Meade 4000 26mm in a C-11 or 9.25 or LX200R at said Distance. Then maybe a few shots of what it looks like when its off or out of collimination or whatever.. This is what they say over here as in KISS. I look at the photos and wonder well if I was going to try to duplicate what Jerry has done for the masses here, how can I apply it to what I have without going into the photograph part and use the old eyes to get that tweak. Other than that its like a drag race in reading the outcomes and possible factors that each of the telescopes is offering up. I dont even check my email for the *Word deleted by the CN gnaughties gnomes* that happend over the night I check this place first, dont worry if it was something really bad they would have been knocking on my door to my hooch. Its good to know that from the Celestron point of view that those who have the 11 and the 9.25 that we got our $$$$s worth and its still right up there in quality.
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LSA Anaconda, Iraq
WO 66ED,Sirus 32mm, Orion Diagonal,10mm Celestron,25mm Possl [ Blair S.] Greensboro,NC WO 66APO Patriot
8mm Televue,4mm Or [ Donald B.] Boise,Idaho
Meade 6.7 Ultra Wide [ Chuck ] USA
Meade 26mm Plossl [ Glenda ] Fort Bliss,Tx
WO 1.25 Diagonal , 6mm Radian,4mmTMB, 40mm Meade 5000, 26mm and 32mm QX Meade, and some other stuff my Credit Card has been buying against my will, haha
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Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4339
Loc: Bosham, UK
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Aw, Jerry, just as i'd given up on the 'R'...
Quote:
This points out a genuine need for an article or series of articles on optics checking for the amateur.
Totally agree. I have no real idea of how to do this.
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Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire, 80ED (x2), 305mm f/5 dob, VLT
Astro-Physics 1200GTO, evolved HEQ5/pro
Coronado SM60/BF10, 3-6 Nagler zoom, 8 & 13 Ethos, 28UWAN
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