asaint
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/25/03
Posts: 2031
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A Tale of Two Astronomers
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jrcrilly
Refractor wienie again
Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 22757
Loc: NE Ohio
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Nice one, Allister.
To me, the good news is that folks fitting either profile seem to end up learning a lot and having a good time.
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John C
Urban Observatory
Tele Vue Pronto
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Tak FSQ-106N F/5 APO
Meade 152ED F/9 "APO"
Meade 178ED F/9 "APO"
Meade ETX-125AT
Tak CN-212 8" F/12 classical Cass/ F/4 Newt
Teeter 20" F/3.8 truss Newt w/ServoCat
LXD750, EM-200, CI-700
ST-10XME
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 10519
Loc: Oort Cloud
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Good one, Allister.
Seems like the major difference between Alfred and Steve is that Alfred stuck to books and charts to enjoy his scope, while Steve wandered over to the dreaded Internet (and possibly Cloudy Nights) to get better informed and ultimately distracted by what he learned there.
Moral of the story (?)--
Once you buy a scope, stay away from your computer! 
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A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife and three curious cats.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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asaint
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/25/03
Posts: 2031
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Clive,
Maybe. Question - do people read online reviews to become "better informed"?
Allister
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asaint
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/25/03
Posts: 2031
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John,
Yes, at one level you could conclude the story is about 2 "type" of amateur astronomers. However, there is more to it then that.
Your comment that the hobby has folks fitting both profiles and "have a good time" does not sync with the story. Consider this line in Steve's story;
"Test sessions with each telescope take on the atmosphere of a tax audit."
Allister
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lynntx
sage
Reged: 03/25/04
Posts: 284
Loc: North Texas, USA
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One of the more intelligent post I have seen on cloudy nights. Although I have been in this hobby (off and on for over 2 years) I have not progressed much beyond a beginners skills in many ways. I do more reading than observing, and I suspect a lot of other people are the same way. One of the most discouraging aspects for me living in a large Urban area, the light pollution has pretty much ruined a typical viewing night for me. I am forced to look at a very short list of objects which often leaves for an unsatisfying session. I have just never seemed to get too excited about Lunar viewing, which is often the only easy choice with the skies over my city. Like most people, it's is not so easy to drive an hour to get to even marginally better skies.
Lynn
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Texas, USA
*******************
Orion ST80
127mm F8 Burgess Refractor
8" F6 Dob
8X21, 8X30, 8X42, 7X50, 15X70 Binoculars
(Psalm 19:1)
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 10519
Loc: Oort Cloud
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Quote:
Clive,
Maybe. Question - do people read online reviews to become "better informed"?
Allister
Thanks, Allister.
They probably read on-line reviews for many reasons.
Some, out of sheer curiosity.
Some, to get better informed before making a purchase.
Some, to affirm that they made the right purchase and sometimes reading stuff that might contradict that opinion.
Some, just to waste time while surfing the web at work. 
Probably lots of other reasons, too.
--------------------
A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife and three curious cats.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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timmbottoni
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/25/05
Posts: 1136
Loc: W Chicago suburbs, IL USA
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Great article!
I am still amazed at what I have learned from "using" my Nexstar 114GT I bought from Costco for $160 three years ago, after reading that this was a horrible optical design, a faulty cheap GoTo mount that can't find anything, or track for more than a few seconds, and is too unstable to use at anything but really low power.
I now have an 80mm refractor that I can mount on it and find nearly anything within my limitations, or on a manual alt-az mount. I have learned a great deal about the sky, have a fast portable setup that I can be observing with in 5 minutes, and enjoy seeing the moon, stars, planets, open clusters, asterisms, double stars, and even some DSOs like the Ring Nebula from the back of my deck, in horribly light polluted skies were "it's not worth observing from"!
You share my sentiments exactly - whatever you have - GET OUT AND USE IT!!! Nearly everything we learn in life we learn by trial and error. Reading is great when its cloudy out at night, or when you are trying to stay awake on the train ride commute home, and I take advantage of that time every chance I get, and the Internet is a wonderful tool for learning too, but you can't learn to swim by reading a book about it, you have to try, try, try.
Clear Skies!!!! 
Timm
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WO Megrez 80FD, Celestron C8
WO SWAN 33mm, UWANs 4mm, 7mm, 16mm, WO SPLs 3mm, 6mm, 12.5mm, WO Zoom II 7.5-22.5
WO EZTouch & Celestron Nexstar GT modified mounts
SV F50B2 Finder in WO Quick Release 50mm bracket
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jrcrilly
Refractor wienie again
Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 22757
Loc: NE Ohio
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Quote:
Clive,
Maybe. Question - do people read online reviews to become "better informed"?
Allister
Great question!
Folks who read reviews seeking affirmation of a telescope choice they have already made do expose themselves to the danger of discovering weaknesses that may have never come to their attention otherwise. They may then focus on those aspects, and become dissatisfied, as in the tale referred to in this thread.
I do hope that lots of folks read reviews to become better informed; that's certainly my goal when writing one.
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John C
Urban Observatory
Tele Vue Pronto
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Tak FSQ-106N F/5 APO
Meade 152ED F/9 "APO"
Meade 178ED F/9 "APO"
Meade ETX-125AT
Tak CN-212 8" F/12 classical Cass/ F/4 Newt
Teeter 20" F/3.8 truss Newt w/ServoCat
LXD750, EM-200, CI-700
ST-10XME
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sjs42
member
Reged: 10/07/04
Posts: 65
Loc: Edmonds,WA
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Different strokes...
As long as it's fun who cares if it's naked eye, binoculars, small achro, big Dob or mostly reading.
There is no right or wrong.
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Starman1
Vendor - Scope City
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 11086
Loc: Los Angeles
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I like the Alfreds, when I find them, but, unfortunately, I know a lot of Steves.
Steve has a brother, Ed, who owns a big dob (20") and only observes the 10 brightest objects in the sky because they're the only 10 objects he's ever learned. He spends hours gazing at M13 and M57 because that's all he knows. Of course, Ed can't stay up late, either, so he's always in bed by midnight. After the Milky Way sets, there's nothing to look at anyway, right? But you should see the image of Jupiter in his Zambuto mirror!
All I can say is I'm glad I was stuck with that 4-1/4" reflector for the first 9 years I owned a telescope. Even with its cheapo eyepieces, it never let me down. And it forced me to learn how to see.
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Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member, TeleVue junkie
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midway199
super member
Reged: 04/21/04
Posts: 108
Loc: Illinois
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I didn't think I'd like this article as I started reading it because I thought it was going to be about go-to versus non-goto. It was much deeper and compelling, and I couldn't help laughing as I read Steve's story. I think we all know both of these guys or someone very similar.
I've known guys that absolutely beat the sky with their 6" f/8's logging the most fascinating things they've discovered in their log books, and I've known guys that build amazing monster Dobsonian masterpieces who can't tell one constellation from another. They have ALL enriched MY observing experience and I wouln't change any of those nights I spent with them under the stars. We all help, inspire, and guide each other in one way or another. I like to keep in mind that Astronomy is many things to many people, and I love the diversity I've encountered. I just wish I had more opportunities to help show everyone the right way to do things <wink-wink>. Just kidding!
MS
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Matthew Sherman
StellaCam 3
Celestron NexStar 11 @ f/3.3
Starmaster 12.5"
Starmaster 18"
Tom Osypowski Equatorial Platform
Butterfield East Video Observatory
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loo27
sage
Reged: 09/30/04
Posts: 496
Loc: GA
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Great post! There is the hybrid astronomer, the one who has to keep buying bigger scopes to learn the sky because they live in mag 2 skies (ie me)!
I think the biggest factor in retarded sky knowledge is bad skies. I'm only now learning the constellations from 30 degrees up to horizon because I've been making more dark sky trips. Also, my knowlege of the winter and fall sky is about 10x that of the summer and spring sky, because the conditions are so awful.
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Cliff
C10-N/CG-5GT
Tomlin Industries 6" f/6 Newtonian
C4-R
50mm binos
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Covey32
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/09/04
Posts: 666
Loc: Georgia
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Great article...thought provoking.
I can see both ends of the spectrum, though...for example, there are lots of folks that collect stamps...even old dead butterflies...and get a lot of enjoyment out of it.
Right ?
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Hank
12.5" Mag1 Portaball
Orion 120mm F5 Refractor
Skywatcher 120ED F7.5 Refractor
1982 Celestron C8 Orange tube
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asaint
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/25/03
Posts: 2031
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Covey,
"Stamp Collector", "Telescope Collector"?
Allister
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Covey32
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/09/04
Posts: 666
Loc: Georgia
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Stamps are generally a tiny bit cheaper and take up less space.
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Hank
12.5" Mag1 Portaball
Orion 120mm F5 Refractor
Skywatcher 120ED F7.5 Refractor
1982 Celestron C8 Orange tube
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asaint
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/25/03
Posts: 2031
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Also harder to enclose a telescope in that clear silicon to "protect your investment".
Allister
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 10519
Loc: Oort Cloud
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Quote:
Consider this line in Steve's story;
"Test sessions with each telescope take on the atmosphere of a tax audit."
Allister
Yup, there's "Steves" in just about every hobby.
They make the experience "serious business" and lose sight of the fact that hobbies are supposed to be fun.
Every purchasing decision is analysed to the n-th degree and second-guessed after the fact.
Such folks probably live much of their lives that way, too.
I'm not sure they can be helped... 
--------------------
A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife and three curious cats.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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Covey32
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/09/04
Posts: 666
Loc: Georgia
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We probably can't be helped...but I think dodging and jumping over all the equipment I have on my porch helps keep me in shape...so, it's not all bad.
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Hank
12.5" Mag1 Portaball
Orion 120mm F5 Refractor
Skywatcher 120ED F7.5 Refractor
1982 Celestron C8 Orange tube
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 10519
Loc: Oort Cloud
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I know I can't be helped! 
But, at least I'm not hurting anyone else, in the process...
--------------------
A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife and three curious cats.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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