jrcrilly
Refractor wienie again
   
Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 22758
Loc: NE Ohio
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Quote:
Stamps are generally a tiny bit cheaper and take up less space.
Telescopes aren't too bad. When I was a jukebox collector I had to rent a 5000 ft sq warehouse!
-------------------- John C
Urban Observatory
Tele Vue Pronto
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Tak FSQ-106N F/5 APO
Meade 152ED F/9 "APO"
Meade 178ED F/9 "APO"
Meade ETX-125AT
Tak CN-212 8" F/12 classical Cass/ F/4 Newt
Teeter 20" F/3.8 truss Newt w/ServoCat
LXD750, EM-200, CI-700
ST-10XME
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
   
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 10519
Loc: Oort Cloud
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Glad I'm not a Zeppelin collector... 
(OK, back to the topic at hand...)
--------------------
A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife and three curious cats.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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spaceydee
Postmaster
   
Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 15439
Loc: Where the Kittens Are
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I definitely feel sorry for Steve here and happy for Alfred. Myself, I am quite happy being somewhere between the two. Realistically speaking, unless I move out to a country area, I will never get as many nights out under the stars as I can - although I enjoy the observing I do in the city, I miss the fainter of the faint fuzzies, and miss seeing the detail that one can see under darker skies. In the meantime, I push either the dob or a small refractor out onto the balcony, figure out what is in my field of view to observe, and go after what I can. I also enjoy playing around with the equipment, comparing and contrasting the strengths and weaknesses of each design because it is interesting to me. . As a physicist, I have enjoyed seeing false color. Why? because it is supposed to be there, and while in theory it should be there it is nice to know in reality what it is!
-------------------- Dee
space-scientist
student violinist
Nexstar8i,SV80S,80/9D,FC100,94 Brandon,TMB92SS,GM8
8" f/7 Discovery,12.5" Portaball, PST
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apfevervictim
sage
Reged: 12/03/03
Posts: 407
Loc: Mobile, Al.
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Allister, What a great article/tale! Thank you. It puts my astronomical experience into perspective. I started out as an Alfred, but was drawn to the dark side (maybe by poor sky conditions), and became more of a Steve. But, I still have hope, as I find that I still "ooh" and "ahh" at finding objects for the first time, or when seeing a familiar object from a dark sky site. The point being that it's easy to get drawn away from what you enjoy about the hobby by the overwhelming amount of info available to you, that's often seasoned with opinions that really fall under the "personal taste" category, but are presented as "fact".
Dee,
Quote:
Why? because it is supposed to be there,...
-------------------- Wade
XT10 newt, TMB130SS , 5"f5 refractor, 5"mak,
TV102 w/Feathertouch(soon to be on Astromart), 20x80LW & 15x70 Ultra Obies', PST, I need help!
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timmbottoni
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/25/05
Posts: 1136
Loc: W Chicago suburbs, IL USA
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[quote} They make the experience "serious business" and lose sight of the fact that hobbies are supposed to be fun.
Took the words right out of my mouth! 
Timm
-------------------- WO Megrez 80FD, Celestron C8
WO SWAN 33mm, UWANs 4mm, 7mm, 16mm, WO SPLs 3mm, 6mm, 12.5mm, WO Zoom II 7.5-22.5
WO EZTouch & Celestron Nexstar GT modified mounts
SV F50B2 Finder in WO Quick Release 50mm bracket
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Jay_Bird
professor emeritus
   
Reged: 01/04/06
Posts: 690
Loc: Nevada 36N 115W
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I wondered as I clicked who the two would be – Tombaugh and Hubble? Galileo and Newton? Ptolemy and Tycho? Levy and Seki? Alfred and Steve were unexpected, but made a fine parable. Here are three related thoughts:
I heard a good perspective on hobbies in a radio interview: one way people find happiness is to approach their avocations like their careers, committing TIME and PRACTICE to learn, to add and hone skills, to become passionate about and expert in some small area of the hobby, then another area, etc. Alfred throwing himself into double stars while learning constellations was a good example of this approach.
(Or judging by our daytime posts here, maybe more of use should approach our careers with the same energy as we do CN!)
A second thought is that we should make sure beginners base their buyer’s remorse or happiness ON THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE and are not prejudiced, or pushed to the cycle of impatient buying rather than learning, by other’s opinions. It requires restraint by mentors and an effort to communicate more know-how and less “buy more” advice, and encouraging newcomers to read the observation threads as much as the equipment forums.
Knowledge gained with a little patience and practice won’t disappear with each trade-up by a new astronomer, and that can be accomplished using any equipment that meets a fairly basic, workable minimum standard.
Finally, the present cornucopia of hobby gear doesn’t mean everyone has to have every latest thing. To manufacturer’s credit I don’t see that philosophy in telescope ads as much as in hobby forums. Do people ask if they’ve gotten all they can from scope or eyepiece A before they chase B, C, and D? People loved fishing before depth-finders and GPS, found wonder in amateur astronomy before go-to, and learned the art of photography before stabilized auto-focus zooms, etc. All the new technology offers many useful and specialized tools, some undreamed of in the past, but if the tools become an end in themselves then we are spending our time and our resources to be more collectors than astronomers.
I don’t mean that everyone learning the hobby should wear a hair shirt for a year of observing with a 3-inch Dob and an uncoated Ramsden eyepiece, but if that's all they have they can learn the sky and see a lot more than without a scope.
Advice so often offered to beginners as ‘buy more’ might better be ‘more books and charts, a chair, etc.’ than ‘more aperture and more eyepieces, stretch your budget, etc.’...
-------------------- 'these things stand like stone - kindness in another's troubles, courage in your own' Gordon
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desertstars
Deja moo
   
Reged: 11/05/03
Posts: 30423
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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Quote:
Also harder to enclose a telescope in that clear silicon to "protect your investment".
Allister
Though it does conjure an amusing image...
-------------------- Tom W.
SVP8 'She turned me into a 3-legged Newt' EQ
Ralph, the All-Purpose 102mm Refractor
Under the Desert Stars
All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. - Galileo Galilei
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Beri
sage
Reged: 06/29/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Croatia
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Like an old professor said a long time ago : There are two kinds of observers. The first kind observes the stars, and the other kind observes the diffraction rings arround them.
-------------------- 15x70 Binoculars
no scope right now
http://www.scopemaking.net
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microbes
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 12/12/04
Posts: 1193
Loc: Romulus, Sector 12
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Quote:
There are two kinds of observers. The first kind observes the stars, and the other kind observes the diffraction rings arround them.
Only time I want to look at diffraction rings is for about 90 seconds while I tweak my mirror. And I can sit a ball bearing way out on my back fence and do that before it gets dark. 
I think I'm mostly like Alfred. Except that I do know that my stuff isn't the best. But I don't let that bother me.
--------------------
Dirt Cheap Astronomy
Voyager 114X900 Newt EQ2 * Sky Chief 60X700 EQ1 * Cometron 62X300 EQ1
Sears Ultra Wide 7X50 Binos * Vintage 16X50 Binos EQ1
Books, Barlows, Eyepieces, Camera Adaptors & Other Esoteric Junk.
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dgs©
Postmaster
   
Reged: 03/29/04
Posts: 14076
Loc: West Monroe, Louisiana
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That's all well and good, but the real question is, how the heck did Alfred get so many clear nights to be able to learn the sky so well in the space of one year? 

Nice parable Allister.
-------------------- - david
8"Ø Newtonian on SVP, Moonlite CR2, Telrad
PST Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Orion Ultraview 10×50
Hand-me-down Sears Refractor (Discoverer) 60mm×900mm
"What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world, remains and is immortal." --Albert Pike
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photonovore
Moonatic
   
Reged: 12/24/04
Posts: 2488
Loc: tacoma wa
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I'm sure many people can blend "Steve" and "Alfred" without much trouble--disposable income allowing i suppose. After all, every 24hours contains both a daytime for Steve's research & retail therapy pursuits *and* a nightime for Alfred's observing interests (weather permitting--otherwise it's "cloudynights"...)
And I'd sure be wondering about Alfred if he refused delivery on all those scope's Steve can apparently afford to test drive... Really, it's more of a rich-guy/poor guy paradigm that's being painted here than anything else I think. What else but limited resources would make anyone stick with a 90mm achro for their only scope when there are so many other more satisfying (but more expensive) optical choices available these days?
-------------------- Mardi
4" achromat, ETX-70.
Whitepeak Lunar Observatory Website
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LivingNDixie
Lord of Ferrets
   
Reged: 04/23/03
Posts: 15918
Loc: Hoover, AL
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I can see a few different ways this "tale" could be interpreted.
-------------------- Preston
Celestron 11" Nexstar GPS XLT
Tak FS 78
Lunt LS60T/Ha 60mm f/8.33 (on order)
Vixen Porta Mount
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Mark K
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/16/04
Posts: 860
Loc: Bury, Lancashire, UK
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This is an excellent review. It has to be said that I'm an Alfred with GOTO !
The best thing to do is to accept the limitations of your site and telescope, and concentrate on the strengths rather than bemoan the weaknesses.
I know that the ETX-125 is not well suited for nebulae and a little weak to show detail on galaxies, but it's very good on just about everything else.
Remember, Messier had a 4-inch scope when he compiled his catalogue, and they did not have APO's or GOTO in 1800 !
--------------------
Mark K.
Meade ETX-125
Edited by Mark K (08/10/06 05:29 PM)
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desertstars
Deja moo
   
Reged: 11/05/03
Posts: 30423
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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Color me Alfred.
My first 'real' telescope was a 60mm department store refractor. I knew of no other amateur astronomers at the time, and so everything I learned came from applying what I read in books from the library. Chromatic aberation was described in those books as just a characteristic of refractors, not as some sort of flaw. From what I read I knew that the aperture at my disposal would limit what I could see, but what I could see was so amazing (especially the Moon) that I didn't consider it a problem. Oh, I wanted a larger telescope, I wanted to see more, you bet I did! But when you're a teenager in a small town and paper routes and lawn mowing are the closest things to employment opportunities you have, you make the best of things.
In a way, I'm glad that nothing like Cloudy Nights was available to me, and that I never hooked up with an astronomy club. I would have turned into a Steve, but with no money. I was easily discouraged as a boy, and such disappointments would really have put me off this hobby. I might not be sitting here now, sharing this adventure with the rest of you.
-------------------- Tom W.
SVP8 'She turned me into a 3-legged Newt' EQ
Ralph, the All-Purpose 102mm Refractor
Under the Desert Stars
All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. - Galileo Galilei
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Mark9473
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 2781
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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I didn't particularly like the story as such, BUT I agreee there's merit in the point it makes.
I am often surprised how many posts appear on the various forum along the lines of "I just bought equipment XYZ and it's arriving tomorrow; any comments on how good it is?"
-------------------- Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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Todd
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 02/23/04
Posts: 1381
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As long as each are having fun with this hobby in their own way, that's all that really matters.
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edwincjones
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 4561
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there go I
edj
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n w arkansas
Binocular, Solar, General Amateur Astronomy
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Daniel Mounsey
Vendor - Woodland Hils
   
Reged: 06/12/02
Posts: 2994
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Quote:
Dee,
Quote:
Why? because it is supposed to be there,...
Wade, You overlooked what Dee was trying to express. She's not saying she likes seeing color around objects because it looks great or something. She's merely expressing that the actual science of what causes the color is very fascinating to see. Red long, blue short etc. I can easily understand what she is saying here. Imperfections are sometimes a perfect thing. What Dee said was a very wise and open minded perspective.
"Only that day dawns to which we are awake"
Henry David Thoreau
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spaceydee
Postmaster
   
Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 15439
Loc: Where the Kittens Are
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Well, purple is one of my favorite colors!! 
I can see my statement being humorous, even if it wasn't intended to be so Now back to our regularly scheduled program!
-------------------- Dee
space-scientist
student violinist
Nexstar8i,SV80S,80/9D,FC100,94 Brandon,TMB92SS,GM8
8" f/7 Discovery,12.5" Portaball, PST
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RRaubach
AstroCowboy
   
Reged: 01/26/05
Posts: 2173
Loc: Douglas (Converse County),WY
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I suppose that I'm sorry for BOTH Steve and Alfred. What drew me to this hobby is the sheer beuaty of the night sky, in addition to the philosophical reasons. I am a physical chemist by profession, but I have always been an astronomer for the sheer love of it.
-------------------- Rodger
Meade SN-10 (UHTC) on Tak EM-200 mount/Antares rotating rings. Moonlite focuser.
Parallax 14.5" Newtonian on HD 200 mount (arriving soon!) w/ conical Royce mirror.
TMB 203 f/7 APO refractor on Tak NJP-160 mount.
Discovery 12.5" PDHQ
Schneider 18x80 "Flakfernrohr" binoculars/tripod mounted. Canon 15x50 IS binoculars
Unihedron Sky Quality Meter
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