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Rusty
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Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronome new [Re: jrcrilly]
      #1088318 - 08/10/06 09:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Clive,

Maybe. Question - do people read online reviews to become "better informed"?

Allister




Great question!

Folks who read reviews seeking affirmation of a telescope choice they have already made do expose themselves to the danger of discovering weaknesses that may have never come to thier attention otherwise. They may then focus on those aspects, and become dissatisfied, as in the tale referred to in this thread.

I do hope that lots of folks read reviews to become better informed; that's certainly my goal when writing one.




There are reviews, and then there are reviews. I read then consistently; one, to keep abreast of New Things that can make the hobby easier (which means "more enjoyable").

The decision to buy my Nexstar 11 GPS was made around 1972 - there were no "reviews" as we now know them. Ever since TK got canned as editor of a model railroad magazine for a lukewarm review of a major advertiser's product (which was, in fact, far below expectations for an item from that company), I don't rely on magazine reviews for objectivity. The C11 was just the best in the 70s, and it's gotten better, so when I was in a position to upsize from my C5, the N11 GPS was already the sole contender.

As I've diversified my stable (adding refractors, which I never before owned until 2003), the reviews of both manufacturers' attitudes and dedication to high-quality products (something which just didn't exist in the 50s, when I got my first scope) has been of great benefit.

Most helpful in the reviews has been that the Big Names amongst refractor builders are Small Operations. And that guys like Vic, Roland, Yuri, William, Al, Markus, Thomas, and others, strive to make a well-crafted, solidly designed product.

So I'm sometime Alfred, sometimes Steve; astronomy can be an expensive hobby, but I feel more like Alfred when I spend money like Steve on a product that meets expectations because CN reviewers have let me know what to expect.

Actually, the next-to-last thing I bought was a $40 60mm achro. The last thing I bought was a 105mm APO. Both have been money well spent. Go figure....

I think most of us have a split Alfred-Steve personality...

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I'm schezophrenic
And so am I


--------------------
N11GPS Fastar
TOA-130S
MK66 Std
Vintage C5
Megrez II 80mm ED Triplet APO
SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II
Sirius EQ-G
ST8XE/CFW-8(LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV Dlx/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color/DSI II Pro
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Maggie and Casey


Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke


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spaceydeeModerator
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Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronome new [Re: Rusty]
      #1088321 - 08/10/06 09:08 PM

Well Said!!

--------------------
Dee
space-scientist
student violinist
Nexstar8i,SV80S,80/9D,FC100,94 Brandon,TMB92SS,GM8
8" f/7 Discovery,12.5" Portaball, PST



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Tom Faller
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Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronomers new [Re: asaint]
      #1088563 - 08/10/06 11:49 PM

I really enjoyed this post, mostly because it didn't go the
way I expected it to, and because it got me thinking. What
makes a difference in finding objects in the sky? Even for
veterans, what is it that prompts that next big leap in
observing for some? Is there a level of equipment, or of
skill or of opportunity or in finding a mentor?

I've been observing on and off since my twenties, and I've
had many stagnant periods where I was observing alone,
looking for but not finding new objects, and regularly
cycling through the same sights in the sky. Each time,
something different provided the breakthrough that renewed
my interest and expanded my skills and the list of objects
I could find.

Without going back too far, in the early 90's I had an 8"
Newtonian with an average mirror and a dreadfully heavy pier
mount. Even with a lighter tripod made from PVC, it was a
pain to do more than set it up outside in my apartment's
parking lot. I had a huge star atlas to go with it, the
kind my university kept in their observatory, but it only
went down to 8th magnitude and try as I might, I couldn't
find half of the obvious Messiers using a Telerad and a
25mm eyepiece. Either objects were too dim to see in the
Telerad or I'd get lost in all the stars my 25mm would show,
unable to find patterns.

Opportunity stepped in. I moved to Vicksburg, MS and bought
a portable Coulter 8" Dob, that I could throw in the car
and cart to the supremely dark skies in rural Louisiana.
For several years, nebulas and clusters were easy to find -
the skies were so dark, I'd just point the scope at the
fuzzy spot in the sky and see what turned up. The mirror
quality was even worse than my first scope, but the skies
were giving me a free ride.

Then I moved to Atlanta and the scopes gradually went back
to the basement - finding things dimmer than the planets
became hard work. But a couple of years ago, I decided to
cash in an investment (and split it with my wife), and with
my share, bought a 127 Mak-Cass from Orion. This scope took
months of research online - a lot of it here, at CN, and
a lot with guides like the Backyard Astronomer's handbook.
I agonized over whether I would find the optics good enough
or the aperture disappointing compared to my 8"s, but the
actual equipment features that opened new doors for me were
the "add-ons":
- for the first time, I was using a rock-solid, yet portable
tripod. No more backlash, no more tweaking the scope ahead
so that it would fall back roughly where I wanted it. It
went where I pointed and stayed there. Steady magnification
made it easy to find dim objects.
- the tracking motors let me keep what I found and even
slew around in a repeatable way. No more zooming past some
faint fuzzy and being unable to find it again.
- a 9x50 finder gave me a whole new window on the sky. Now
I had a chance to find dim objects even under Atlanta skies.

In my first year, I found at least a dozen objects I'd
searched for fruitlessly with more objective and darker sky.
But the biggest benefit came with the vastly improved
optics of the Mak. Stars were now dots instead of sparkles.
Mars had detail. In that first year, I found Uranus and
Neptune in one night.

And that prompted me to take the next step: getting better
maps of what I was looking at. Each view held maybe dozens
of stars, only one or two of which were in my atlas. I found
a couple of great guides that went down below 13th mag.
(my limit), and started finding things like the Dumbbell,
the Eskimo, the Coathanger and more galaxies and cool
multiple stars than I knew were out there.

Finally, I took the step of making my Newtonian's optics
at least as good as the Mak's. I ordered a good quality
mirror set and began to modify my 20+ year old Newt into
a 21st century telescope, shortening it, replacing
components and building a Dob mount for it. That project
took over a year, and I read three books on telescope
making, Suiter's book on aligning optics, learned what
tradeoffs you make with secondary mirror size and why a
mirror fan matters. I invented ways to line up the physical
and optical axes of an uneven, out-of-round tube. It was
a long learning curve, but worth it.

Not only have I started seeing features in objects I've
looked at for 30 years that I've never seen that clearly
before, I now have a feel for what I'm seeing, in terms
of the combination of seeing conditions and the readiness
of my scope to observe. I've spent a whole evening looking
through the Seven Sisters, seeing patterns of faint stars
I'd never noticed. The Moon is again one of my favorite
targets, providing me with endless detail instead of just
a few easy to spot craters or rilles. I've started setting
myself projects, to find things I've always wanted to see,
or things that are astronomically interesting, and although
I'd like to take another step up to a 12" or 16" truss Dob,
I keep thinking about how portable my present scopes are,
and how much there still is to do with them.

I joined the Atlanta Astronomy Club this year, after leaving
a job that required regular night shifts. Now I'm out
observing with others, looking through other scopes, seeing
other people's favorite objects (I didn't know there was
another double-double in Lyra, with better color..).

Each change is different: equipment, opportunity, skill,
companions, but each opened up a new way to see the same
sky on different levels. I think that when I started as
an astronomer, my concepts of the sky and the universe
were like the atlases of the 60's and 70's, with maybe a
few thousand undistinguished stars to see and a few galaxies
of interest beyond. As the 90's passed and Hubble started
showing what was out beyond our amateur scopes, that picture
got a little more crowded, but it was still mostly pretty
pictures, not the stuff I was seeing each night.

But somewhere in the past five years or so, there's been a
change in my thinking. Maybe it's better equipment, letting
me look at patches of the sky with absolutely nothing
remarkable about them, and seeing doubles, or tiny star
patterns, or just looking at all the faint stars I can
see. Maybe it's better guides, so that I now know that there
are umpteen planetaries out there, and more clusters of
galaxies than I can find guides to. Now I go out, and I
know that whether I can see it or not, there's something
up there, in the space between the bright stars, and with
patience and a little work and luck I might be priviliged
to see it this night.

Tom


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apfevervictim
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Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronomers new [Re: Daniel Mounsey]
      #1088612 - 08/11/06 12:53 AM

Quote:

Quote:


Dee,
Quote:

Why? because it is supposed to be there,...










Wade,
You overlooked what Dee was trying to express. She's not saying she likes seeing color around objects because it looks great or something. She's merely expressing that the actual science of what causes the color is very fascinating to see. Red long, blue short etc. I can easily understand what she is saying here. Imperfections are sometimes a perfect thing. What Dee said was a very wise and open minded perspective.

"Only that day dawns to which we are awake"

Henry David Thoreau




No Daniel, I understood what she was saying. The humor was in quoting her, but out of context. Kind of a "why did the chicken cross the road" thing.

--------------------
Wade
XT10 newt, TMB130SS , 5"f5 refractor, 5"mak,
TV102 w/Feathertouch(soon to be on Astromart), 20x80LW & 15x70 Ultra Obies', PST, I need help!


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Tom L

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Posts: 29880
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Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronomers new [Re: apfevervictim]
      #1088647 - 08/11/06 01:39 AM

Interesting, Allister. After reading it and your posts in this thread I'm scratching my head...

--------------------
Tom
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount


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Anonymous
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Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronome new [Re: asaint]
      #1088678 - 08/11/06 02:34 AM

Ohh, so much to say! So much!

I bought a 76mm Tasco newtonian a couple of years ago. It wasn't so much an impulse buy (well, it *was* on sale at the department store) as it was "wow, telescopes aren't as expensive as I thought they were!"

After a while though, I found out why it was so frustrating to use, and I went about fixing it. Just without all the extravagence that Steve went through, because after all, I hadn't the means. I found out that a $36 plossl was worlds apart from the eyepieces that came in the box. I found out that a new mount was definitely in order. The mirror's optics aren't half bad considering, and I still use it as a light grab-and-go scope. I've used it to show friends Jupiter and Saturn, Mizar and Albireo. I've found M13, M15, the Andromeda Galaxy and the Orion Nebula. And not only with small aperature, but light polluted skies too!

I have a 10" dobsonian too now, but anyone who says that you can't do anything with a cheap department store scope can bite my shiny metal *Word deleted by the CN gnaughties gnomes*! I can think of no better way to kill someone's interest in this or any other hobby than by saying "sorry kid, but you got ripped off. You gotta spend *lots* of money to really see anything!"


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asaintAdministrator
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Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronome new [Re: ]
      #1088819 - 08/11/06 07:45 AM

I'm excited to read the story has proved thought provoking to some of you. That's the end result I'm striving for and am enjoying this discussion thread tremendously!

At first read, the story appears to be about 2 types of astronomers. Such an assessment is fair. However, woven within this story are deeper topics. My hope is these topics will be dredged up and discussed here.

To that end, I'll kick off a discussion on one.

One recurrent comment on this discussion thread is both Alfred and Steve are taking different approaches to the hobby of astronomy. Both are enjoying themselves and enjoying themselves in their own way. The fundamental assumption is that astronomy is a hobby and if you engage in a hobby you are pursuing a form of relaxation.

A good assumption but one that can not be made of this story. For the third time, allow me to cite this sentence;

"Test sessions with each telescope take on the atmosphere of a tax audit. With so much money riding on each purchase, Steve must be certain the telescope is without flaws."

What is the main emotion of any sane person during a tax audit? Fear! Steve is being driven by fear during his test sessions. He is afraid he will purchase a subpar telescope and be considered a "sucker" by others and himself. Now, for me, the really important question is where does this fear come from?


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Clive Gibbons
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Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronome new [Re: asaint]
      #1088896 - 08/11/06 09:11 AM

Quote:

What is the main emotion of any sane person during a tax audit? Fear! Steve is being driven by fear during his test sessions. He is afraid he will purchase a subpar telescope and be considered a "sucker" by others and himself. Now, for me, the really important question is where does this fear come from?




Fear seems to be a very common emotion these days, whether it's justified, or not.

We're all afraid of scr*wing up something or somehow. Especially if a lot of money is involved and we don't have unlimited resources to laugh it off.

The fear comes from the mind.

Uh, oh.....



--------------------


A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife and three curious cats.

"Semper ubi sub ubi"

Edited by spaceydee (08/11/06 12:55 PM)


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asaintAdministrator
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Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronome new [Re: Clive Gibbons]
      #1088900 - 08/11/06 09:15 AM

Clive,

I promise it won't turn into a Hubbard type discussion. However, it will walk down some philosophical avenues.

Allister


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Starman1
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Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronome new [Re: asaint]
      #1088983 - 08/11/06 10:33 AM

Everyone has heard the story of someone who got a lemon. It may not be a personal experience, but everyone is afraid that they will be the one who gets one. I recently bought a new high-end refrigerator, and it was defective--and replaced by the company, but what a pain.
The term defect, as it applies to optics, is often in the eye of the owner. Optics do vary in quality and everyone wants theirs to be like all the kids in Lake Woebegone--above average. Well, it isn't going to be. At least half will be below the median quality level.
The good news is that today's median quality level is high enough that the truly junky optics are, by and large, not on the market.
But there are the fanatics who will not be satisfied with anything short of perfection--the scope that EVERYONE admires, and says"That's the best image I've ever seen!". It's a quest for the Holy Grail, and doomed to disappointment.
The rest of us take advantage of that pursuer of excellence--we buy the hand-me-downs. But their sources of fear come from the suspicion that throwing more money at the purchase won't guarantee them the perfection they crave. I've heard people bawling out the saleman for selling them a $20K car that wasn't perfect--for them, it was a lot of money. I've known people who don't expect perfection on an $80K car because it's obviously not an expensive car to them. The difference is in perception.
But the fear for most people is not that their scope won't be the best possible, but that their scope will be a lemon, optically. And that, therefore, they will have wasted their money.
So long as we eschew the department store telescopes, we should be fine. As the situation with my refrigerator points out--occasionally a bad one slips through. The key is in dealing with a reputable retailer who will exhange it if it proves defective.

--------------------
Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member, TeleVue junkie


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Matt Harmston
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Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronomers new [Re: asaint]
      #1089073 - 08/11/06 11:29 AM

Allister,

Very thought provoking. It makes me wonder...which type am I? Have I always been or will always be that type? I really think we go through seasons in our hobbies/interests that cause us to focus different aspects. With my first 4.5" Newt, I learned the sky very well. I then decided I wanted something bigger (hence the refractor and the waterheater). Interesting...with the extra aperture (and expense), I've spent more time like Starman's mythical character Ed...looking at fine details in well-known objects...than looking for objects as yet unseen. At the same time, I find myself getting all wrapped up in the equipment aspects. But, now, I'm getting an itch to...

In a nutshell, times change, we change, interests change...that's what makes a well-rounded person. Awesome article!
-Matt

--------------------
1-16" Custom Dob Under Construction
1-150mm Celestron Refractor
1-4.5" f/4 Starblast
34mm Siebert Observatory
22mm Orion Lanthenum Superwide
12mm Televue T4
7mm Siebert Ultra
2x Televue Barlow

Most important:



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Clive Gibbons
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Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronome new [Re: Starman1]
      #1089154 - 08/11/06 12:07 PM

Quote:

But there are the fanatics who will not be satisfied with anything short of perfection--the scope that EVERYONE admires, and says"That's the best image I've ever seen!". It's a quest for the Holy Grail, and doomed to disappointment.





This does happen and when I worked in a scope store in a previous life, we had one very memorable customer that fit this description.
He was a beginner, but seemed like a quick study and was very keen. He spent much of one day looking over our stock and getting a bit of an education from us about types of scopes, how they worked, advantages/disadvantages, etc.
He purchased an 80mm refractor, which promised to deliver the best image quality for the money he wanted to spend.
The very next morning, he was waiting outside the door of the shop before we even opened.
Weeelllll, the scope was nice and sharp, but not bright enough. Could he exchange it for something else? Sure, so for another few hours he considered the other options and decided on a 4" refractor. More money, but more light and still excellent image quality. The next day, he was back again. The verdict? It was a better scope, but still not enough light and he noticed some spurious color that the 80mm didn't have. What else could he buy?
Next selection was a 6" f/5 Newtonian. We cautioned him that it had more light gathering power and no spurious color, but the secondary mirror and support caused some diffraction. No worries! As long as it was better than the 4" refractor, he'd be happy. This time, he wasn't back the next day, cuz that night was cloudy. Nope, he was back the day after. Ummmmmmmm, the extra diffraction from the secondary and mirror support was annoying and he was seeing tube currents that the refractors didn't have.
This just wouldn't do....
The scenario went on for nearly three weeks. It got to the point where, if we knew the previous night had been clear, we were fully expecting (and dreading) Mr. X being parked on our doorstep when we arrived at the shop in the morning.
The guy was like some kind of recurring bad dream.
We also learned from the dozens of hours of conversation shared with him, that Mr. X really wasn't listening to or digesting what we were saying. We'd explain telescope features and performance expectations with him, but he'd usually return a telescope, complaining about something that we specifically pointed out to him before he purchased the scope.
The final act was played when our store owner tired of all the buying and returning of goods the fellow had done. He issued a "friendly" ultimatum:
"You can make one last selection and that's it. If you're not satisfied with it, there's nothing better we can offer, so you might be best to look elsewhere after that."
He picked a fully equipped Celestron Super C-8.
We just knew the likelihood of that scope totally pleasing the guy would be close to zero, but were comforted by the fact that he wouldn't be returning it to us.

As it turned out, the fellow went on to become a very experienced observer and one of the higher profile members in the local astronomical community.
But he was a real pain in the early days...

--------------------


A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife and three curious cats.

"Semper ubi sub ubi"


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Bob W6PU
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Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronome new [Re: Clive Gibbons]
      #1089199 - 08/11/06 12:37 PM

I find that I can relate to Steve who uses the vast resources of the internet to learn about his new hobby!

However,Steve is somewhat cynical, and seems the type who thinks that every one is out to trick him! he dosen't realize that a telescope is a tool, and like any tool, each type and size has its place .

His "fear" shows a bit of insecurity, lack of self confidence, and a touch of paranoia!

One year in a good encounter group would probably work wonders for Steve!

That was a very interesting story, Allister!

I think that once Alfred learns to use the Web, he will become a better balanced amateur astronomer than Steve, and probably enjoy this hobby more!

Cheers!
Bob in NM

10" F5, Treckerscope Newt.

Edited by Bob W6PU (08/11/06 01:06 PM)


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spaceydeeModerator
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Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronome new [Re: Bob W6PU]
      #1089205 - 08/11/06 12:40 PM

My opinion is that if you pay a lot of money for something, you ought to get what you pay for - but you need to understand what the telescope is designed to do before purchasing. Have realistic expectations of the performance of what you are going to buy.

I'm not sure, it may be that because the heavens are so beautiful to look at, it can become obsessive to try to get the most "perfect" view of them.

--------------------
Dee
space-scientist
student violinist
Nexstar8i,SV80S,80/9D,FC100,94 Brandon,TMB92SS,GM8
8" f/7 Discovery,12.5" Portaball, PST



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Jay_Bird
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Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronome new [Re: spaceydee]
      #1089226 - 08/11/06 12:56 PM

Here’s a distillation of I think we should have in mind, to be more like “Alfred” and enjoying our hobby, not stressing over it, in no particular order:

Having Fun!

Accomplishing –
could be AL or other programs, ‘merit badges’ so to speak, taking first images, or setting & meeting personal observing or ATM goals (even new ways of programming the go-to)

Learning –
could be learning all constellations, star hopping skills, or understanding what we are looking at, how big, how old how far, why that color, adding skills like honing averted vision or pulling details out…

Sharing –
could be a club or the internet or your driveway – offer family, friends, public chance to see what is so amazing about the sky

Contributing –
could be showing elementary school kids or park visitors moon and planets, could be doing real research with your CCD & robotic mount, occultation trips, etc.

Thinking –
could be spiritual, wondering about glittering stars ‘are their glories not greater than ours’ (my favorite Home on the Range verse), could be study for understanding of stellar evolution or plane of galaxy vs. plane of ecliptic, etc.

Letting THINGS get in the way of those, rather than help do them, is the line we should be conscious of. I’ll add that ATM folks seem to approach this much differently than "Steve", the difference seeming to be in the doing/building/skill learning and sharing part of ATM...

I’ve been guilty of the “THIS is no good – why, I need THAT to do what I want – it must be the tool, not me!” school of thought many times, and remembering to step back from that thinking to make sure I realy do need somehting new is one of the most important lessons I’ve learned.

Best, Jay

--------------------
'these things stand like stone - kindness in another's troubles, courage in your own' Gordon


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AstroArlo
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Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronome new [Re: Jay_Bird]
      #1089295 - 08/11/06 01:34 PM

I like Jay's post, except for the part about "we should all be more like Alfred."

I just re-read the article after reading the posts...and I think we are missing something here.

I may be mis-interpreting, but the article is biased towards Alfred, implying he "enjoys" the hobby more than Steve.

However, remember that people enjoy different things. Alfred enjoys the night sky, and the scope is only a tool to accomplish what he really enjoys - the night sky.

Steve is a technophile. Some people love experimenting with new gear and technology, and get great enjoyment out of doing so, as much enjoyment as Alfred gets out of his observing. The "Steves" are the ones inventing all this great new stuff.

There are members of CN who seem to spend much more time testing and upgrading ("Steve") than they doing observing ("Alfred"). I'll bet they get as much enjoyment out of this as Observers do out of Observing ("Alfred.") I'm glad they're here, because we all benefit from their diligence and passion for testing equipment to see if it performs as advertised.

So, the lesson here is that neither Alfred nor Steve should be considered "better." As long as you enjoy what you are doing, then it doesn't matter if it is fiddling with gear or memorizing the sky...have fun!

So I would append Jay's post, because the "accomplishing/learning/sharing/contributing/thinking" applies to both observers and technophiles...

For the record, I'm an observer. I don't have a go-to scope until the RC20 is on the Paramount. I can beat many go-to scopes in finding objects by star-hopping. I go for the best gear because I want to put my efforts into observing and imaging, not into testing scopes. But I've obviously had advice from some great "Steves" in the selection of my gear...

The imaging part requires a good dose of "Steve", and I enjoy working out the kinks in an imaging system to get the best results. But once I work these out, I like to just image and not keep tweaking the system to get consistent results ("Alfred"). To pursue this hobby, we all need some of Alfred and some of Steve in us.

So, I do more Alfred than Steve, but I enjoy being Steve once in a while. (P.S. - "Steve" is visiting next week when the 20" arrives!)

--------------------
Best Regards, Arlo
Grand Cosmic Observatory, Jackson Hole, Wyoming

CATS/CASS - 20" RCOS Ritchey-Chretien, C14, C8
REFRACTORS - 155mm Astro-Physics Starfire EDF w/4" Focuser, 102mm Televue Genesis, 78mm FS Takahashi
ASTROGRAPHS - 8" Lichtenecker Flat Field Camera, 6" JSO Schmidt Camera
MOUNTS - Paramount ME, Losmandy GM200, Takahashi EM-100
CCD/IMAGING - SBIG STS-4, SBIG STL-11000M


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dgs©
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Reged: 03/29/04
Posts: 14076
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Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronome new [Re: AstroArlo]
      #1089344 - 08/11/06 02:06 PM

Without the sentence about "taking on the air of a tax audit", 'Steve' could be enjoying all the research and testing. There are people out there who enjoy that aspect at least as much as simply observing. This guy might be 'George' or 'Agnes'. My point being that there are more than two types of people pursuing this hobby from different perspectives. I'd wager, someone who didn't really enjoy it and actually felt the whole affair was a rather unpleasant endeavor, would just sell their equipment and move on to something else.

Of course, there are probably also some personalities that are willing to endure a certain amount of 'unpleasant-task' activity in order to ensure their enjoyment a little further down the temporal path. I'm sure many of us fall somewhere/somewhat within this realm.

--------------------
- david
8"Ø Newtonian on SVP, Moonlite CR2, Telrad
PST Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Orion Ultraview 10×50
Hand-me-down Sears Refractor (Discoverer) 60mm×900mm



"What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world, remains and is immortal." --Albert Pike


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Jay_Bird
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Loc: Nevada 36N 115W
Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronome new [Re: dgs©]
      #1089353 - 08/11/06 02:16 PM

I didn’t mean to make any rich/poor or visual/imaging or observer technophile comparisons. All of the above ‘types’ and budgets of observer may have their “Steve” moments, but at some point they stop being “Steve the tester”, still testing before he ever starts - and become “Alfred the do-er”, doing SOMETHING with their gear besides test it.

What I see lacking for “Steve” is any payoff. He’s testing and testing but never really starts observing or imaging.

I don’t see Steve as epitomizing a technophile (as opposed to an observer) in a negative way.

I do see him as an unhappy example because he never seems to stop testing/agonizing/buying, and DO some astronomy (visual, imaging, happy gearhead tinkering, ATM, etc… of any type).

We are all technophiles enough to know how our scopes work, maybe more so in proportion to the complexity of our own 'stuff'. I think that the self-described 'technophiles' who are identifying with Steve in reading this are missing some of the point, which I believe in part is Steve’s failure to stop his seemingly unhappy cycle of testing and churning gear long enough to start DOING something with his gear…

Clear skies...

--------------------
'these things stand like stone - kindness in another's troubles, courage in your own' Gordon


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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
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Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronome new [Re: Jay_Bird]
      #1089395 - 08/11/06 02:46 PM

Quote:



What I see lacking for “Steve” is any payoff. He’s testing and testing but never really starts observing or imaging.






It's possible that Steve actually enjoys the fear.

Maybe he subconsciously craves the stress and uncertainty of the whole process.
For many hunters and collectors, the greatest amount of pleasure comes from the hunt. Once the item has been obtained, the thrill is gone. No more adrenaline rush.
By setting unrealistic goals for his "ultimate scope", Steve has pretty much assured himself that he'll always be on the hunt, with all the stimuli that goes along with it.
If he ever found "the payoff", there'd be a letdown soon afterwards.

--------------------


A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife and three curious cats.

"Semper ubi sub ubi"


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Bob W6PU
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 12/23/04
Posts: 2197
Loc: Springer-N.E.NM
Re: From the Editors Desk: A tale of two astronome new [Re: Jay_Bird]
      #1089404 - 08/11/06 02:52 PM

You make some good points Jay!

I would guess that Steve is a "perfectionist",and probably enjoys his life style! He's probably like this with everything he does!

If you were going on a long trans oceanic flight, which pilot would you want flying your airplane?

Alfred is calm and cool, he totally trusts his instrument panel,to tell him that the engines are running fine. Everything is routine to him about his job, and maybe even a little boring, he yawns alot!

Steve is constantly tweaking the controls for maximum engine performance.

He can tell how an engine is running just by listening to it. He looks at his instruments constantly, and often taps the meters, he doesn't entirely trust them, and prefers to rely on his ears, and gut feelings, he never relaxes when he's flying!


Steve is down right neurotic, and is considered by his peers to be a top notch pilot!

Bob in NM

Edited by Bob W6PU (08/11/06 05:13 PM)


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