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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 15021
Loc: Kuiper Belt
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I read this review today which struck me as all wrong.
The writer compares the Galileo 15x70mm binocular to the Oberwerk 15x70 and declares them "identical".
That's interesting because I have looked through a Galileo 70mm binocular that belongs to a friend and I can state that the Galileo is NOT fully multi-coated, whereas the Oberwerk certainly is. On that point alone, the binoculars are clearly not "identical".
The author appears to be an experienced astronomer, so I wonder why the obvious error is in the review?
I provide this example to illustrate how CN's binocular reviews are more accurate than most.
http://www.uvaa.org/hardsbinoreview.html
Clear dark skies...
MikeG
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Specializing in exotic and rare meteorite falls.
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12789
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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I've read other reviews (or could it have been the same one) by this individual in years past. The same kinds of overlooked information and lack of critical comparison was apparent then. BTW, besides coatings, there are other differences between these binoculars that aren't mentioned.
See this old thread which refers to the same review.
An Inexpensive Binocular Review
edz
maybe it's a good time for a reminder to visit the "Best Of" thread
If They Look the Same, What Could be Different?
Where you will find this
"They look exactly the same on the outside. Why would anyone pay more if you can get the same thing for less"?
Usually, it's because they are much different on the inside.
Probably the most important differences in any two binoculars that look the same but sell for much different prices is (A)the mechanical construction, workings and range of adjustment, and (B)(likely more important) the degree to which all the optical surfaces have been figured, polished and coated. There are other things that make a difference in the quality and most of them are not visible on the outside.
Contrary to what you might read elsewhere, any shortcuts that can be allowed in the manufacturing process will result in a less expensive product that can be distrubuted for lower cost. If one dealer orders all his binoculars without coated prisms, the manufacturer can simply take the prisms off the shelf and install directly without putting the prisms through the 3 hour process of the coating machine and then inspection. Considerable savings in time and process results in a less expensive product, a much bigger savings than a few $$, but one that will not perform as well.
These Look The Same, are they?
This post summarizes a lot of the quality differences that might exist be between various brands and price levels of binoculars, most of which would never be evident by looking at the outside of the binocular. With this post we try to do our best to provide you the information you need to dispense with the often heard internet myth that they are all the same. It's just not so.
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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charen
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/28/05
Posts: 807
Loc: New Zealand
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I have had two Galileo products a year or so ago, a short tube 80mm F/5 achro and a 7x50 bino. They did not last long - I would certainly would not rate them highly. They had 'entry' level optics with the blue tinged 'coated' only lens, similar to my 'Barskas'. Unless they have changed dramatically they were basically cheap entry level Chinese optics.
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35 binos.
80mm Cat.
WO66ED
SV NH 80mm / EQ3
Meade 8in.LX90
Skywatcher Equinox ED120 / Goto HEQ5.
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 3471
Loc: NJ USA
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I have a pair of the Galileo 15x70's that I paid about $59 from sportsmansguide.com several years ago and it's the best binoculars under $100 of all my binoculars. The Oberwerks are $149.95 and show "new low-reflection broadband multicoating" in their current ad so back in 2002 maybe they were similar in coatings but I still like the view in my $59 Galileo 15x70's. My Orion 8x40 and 10x50 Orion Outsiders are junk compared to the Galileos.
Joe
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Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 15021
Loc: Kuiper Belt
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Joe -
Wow. I find that a little surprising about the Galileos, but I will take your word on it since you know optics far better than I do.
I had considered that perhaps the author reviewed an older pair with coatings different than the current models. Even if this is the case, the review should be ammended to reflect that fact. Someone trying to do their homework on a purchase might read that review and get the wrong idea about current Oberwerk binoculars.
FWIW, up until my recent purchase of a vintage Japanese 10x50, my favorite binocular has been the $69 Celestron 15x70. It's not the best binocular in the world, but I have more than gotten my money's worth on it.
Clear dark skies...
MikeG
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Specializing in exotic and rare meteorite falls.
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grbrown
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/09/05
Posts: 643
Loc: Ampthill, UK, 52:02N 0:30W
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I looked at Sportsmans website and couldn't find a binocular that fitted the description.
EdZ has pretty well covered the technical differences aspect of this topic.
I cannot help thinking that referring to an article on another website, where the author is unlikely to see or comment on the discussion here on CN, doesn't advance things at all. We can all add to our posts totals, but without advancing our knowledge! Very frustrating! 
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Graham
"one eye good, two eyes better...the more I look, the more I see"
BT100-45 degrees, plus 35,24,17,13,9mm Sieberts
15x80, 7x50 Steiners
12x50, 10x42, 8x20 Leica Trinovids
7x35 Minolta
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 15021
Loc: Kuiper Belt
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My intention was to bring the flawed review to the attention of the "binocular public" - in case somebody out there is researching a purchase and gets the wrong idea after reading that particular review.
I would be interested in hearing the author's POV. And my knowledge was advanced a tiny bit when Joe Ogiba vouched for Galileo binoculars. I had not previously throught that such a cheap binocular would pass muster with a discriminating observer like Joe.
Clear dark skies...
MikeG
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Specializing in exotic and rare meteorite falls.
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 3471
Loc: NJ USA
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I have not seen the 15x70 Galileos on Sportsmans website for several years now. Here is a discussion on the 15x70 - Oberwerk vs Celestron vs Galileo.
Joe
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Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 3471
Loc: NJ USA
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Mike,
I am sure at that low price there could be a few bad 15x70 Galileos out there but like I said I am very satisfied with my pair. But if you are looking for a higher quality 15x70 then the Oberwerk Ultra Series would be the way to go.
Joe
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Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12789
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Mike that review of Gallileo's was posted a number of years ago. Frankly, there are thousands of posts and reviews all over the internet that never get edited or revised. Probably the best course of action is to not provide links to those that are questionable.
FWIW, you can see the replies in the more current discussion to which Joe linked are exactly the kinds of comments we spend so much effort here trying to dispel. Why? Because that type of incomplete information just perpetrates the same myths over and over.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 15021
Loc: Kuiper Belt
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EdZ -
I think you are right here. If you think that this thread is breathing life into a review that should be left defunct, then by all means delete this thread. You have permission to delete my posts in this thread and I don't think Joe would mind (would he?) ... And from the sound of it, I think Graham might be happy to see this thread disappear as well.
Clear dark skies...
MikeG
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Specializing in exotic and rare meteorite falls.
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12789
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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no need for that
edz
--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 3471
Loc: NJ USA
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See here edz mention of the improved 2003 15x70 Oberwerk vs the 2002 model at the end of this review that was most likely the comparison with the Galileo in the old review. It could be that the optics in 2002 were the same. Since this is now 2006 it's a moot point anyway with the upgraded 15x70 Oberwerk.
Joe
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Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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grbrown
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/09/05
Posts: 643
Loc: Ampthill, UK, 52:02N 0:30W
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Quote:
Because that type of incomplete information just perpetrates the same myths over and over.
edz
True! General Motors are represented in the UK by Vauxhall Cars. They built some real rust-heaps during the 1950s and it took them decades to shake that reputation off. In actual fact they were the first to introduce some truly advanced rust prevention measures at that time, but never got the credit. It doesn't need the internet to create myths!
Disc brakes on bicycles are going through similar pains elsewhere and I could drum up a few other topics that are suffering from the very problem Ed refers to. I made my earlier comments in response to that sort of problem and have aired the same point on a different topic elsewhere on CN.
Mike's intention is a very noble one, but is like throwing a pebble away into the sea! There are just so many pebbles out there....
I don't want to see an end to this thread as such and realise I cannot pick up all those pebbles either! I also recognise from threads elsewhere on CN that any attempt to stifle discussion is likely to result in a record-breaking run! I am no King Canute!!!!
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Graham
"one eye good, two eyes better...the more I look, the more I see"
BT100-45 degrees, plus 35,24,17,13,9mm Sieberts
15x80, 7x50 Steiners
12x50, 10x42, 8x20 Leica Trinovids
7x35 Minolta
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