JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7006
Loc: Lexington, SC
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As many know, the communication on the collimation manifestation with Meade has been vexing. The RCX/LXR optics are precise and demand spot on collimation for the results they are capable of. My test indicated the optics were out resolving the larger C-11 yet collimation showed as out. This prevents reliable confirmation of collimation leading to concerns about performance. Meade was not seeing it and has not been able to get a handle on the reason.
I have been in contact with Dr. Clay Sherrod and he has performed bench testing on other LX200R OTAs. (For those not familiar, Dr. Sherrod "supercharges" telescopes as a service to the Astronomy community and is a renowned researcher.) I have to say he is one of the most knowledgeable people I have had the pleasure to correspond with. A true gentleman and a go-getter that knows how to use contacts to get things done. Dr. Clay, a heartfelt thank you.
I have permission to quote the following from our exchanges. Upon testing the LX200R, Dr. Clay contacted Meade. I then received a flurry of Emails from VP level personnel at Meade. Here is the results of his testing:
Quote:
" I had a long talk with Meade yesterday after actually testing one of their new LX200R OTAs on my optical bench. I believe that I know what is causing this: you are not losing collimation at all; rather, I believe that baffle tube #2 (the long primary baffle) is mounted either very slightly (i.e. 1/16") askew OR that it is a bit too long or not fully inserted into the primary hole. From what you describe showing the same affect whether or not any optics MOVE to achieve focus (i.e., using both the coarse focuser AND the FeatherTouch giving the same offset central shadow), this has to be an optical path obstruction or vignetting problem. "
In another communication he gave his opinion of the optics based on extensive usage. What I've seen with the RCX and the 10" LX200R now in the observatory agree.
Quote:
"
I am using two LX200R's at this time and have found the optics incredibly good for not only imaging but precise astrometric and photometric measurements. Since converting H45 to the LX200R-16, our astrometric residuals have improved nearly 70% because of precision of the optical train and the pinpoint nature of stars/pixels in our measurements."
In earlier postings mention was made of a Yahoo post made by Dr. Clay. This was concerning a problem on the 16 inch model and was resolved by Meade some time ago.
So it looks like we have some settling times ahead. I'm sure Meade will address this quickly and we can enjoy fantastic optics.
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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Rlnd300
member
Reged: 01/02/06
Posts: 59
Loc: Louisiana USA
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Jerry that is great news, these problems concern just the O.T.A in the "R" series?
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Roland Hebert
12" DBA Certified
Meade 114/NT 4.5" Newt.
20x80 Binos
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JAT Observatory
Space Freak
Reged: 02/20/05
Posts: 5859
Loc: Eastern PA
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Thanks for the update Jerry. I have been thinking about replacing my 10" GPS OTA with an R.
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-Marcus
The problem with free speech is even the stupid have a voice.
http://jatobservatory.org
12" LX200R on a Paramount ME
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upsguy
Uff da
Reged: 10/01/05
Posts: 3104
Loc: schaumburg, il.
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dr. clay is always on the yahoo sites. i sometimes go to the lx90 site and he's usually there.
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Jim
Meade lx90 8" uhtc
Meade 80mm refractor
Orion 70mm refractor
Barska 15x70
Obies 11x56
Canon 400D
Canon SX100IS
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7006
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Roland, I think Meade will need to determine that in their test. The only model I have worked with and tested for this problem is the LX200R 10". As soon as I hear something I'll post it. Likely others here will know before me though. (I don't spend much time in other forums.) Kinda a CN guy right now.
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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Moggi1964
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 2515
Loc: Madison. NJ. USA
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As you know Jerry I had my 'R' supercharged direct from Meade. Dr. Clay was very pleased with the optics on my particular OTA.
Unfortunately, as I have reported here, the scope has developed a "motor stalled" problem which I am going to have to return the scope to Meade to have fixed.
I don't have the CCD equipment to achieve the detailed pictures of the collimation issue that you have and wondered if it will be clearly visible to the naked eye?
I am thinking that if my OTA has the same problem it might make sense for me to hold on to it until a soloution is identified and THEN send it back to Meade. I do miss having a working drive though!!
I agree totally on your description of Dr. Clay; he has been very helpful to me especially of late.
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Morris
WO Megrez 80 ED F/7
WO 8x42 binoculars
Seymor Rosin F/4.5 Astrograph in the making
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7006
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Morris, that is a quandry. We are both in the East and this time of year can be a wash getting a clear sky (check my sky clock). Also, the Moon starts again next week and this week still has some good nights if it ever clears. I would hold until the end of the week and see what Meade comes up with. I'll post here as soon as they respond.
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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Moggi1964
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 2515
Loc: Madison. NJ. USA
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Thanks Jerry
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Morris
WO Megrez 80 ED F/7
WO 8x42 binoculars
Seymor Rosin F/4.5 Astrograph in the making
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James T.
member
Reged: 03/15/06
Posts: 47
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Jerry,
Dr Clay posted some very interesting ideas on the Yahoo LX200 forum recently. Paraphrasing, he said that the problem may be that the collimation screws may be too loose, which allows the secondary to move. He even gave a procedure to tighen them evenly as a fix.
Edited by James T. (08/23/06 07:27 AM)
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7006
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Hi James. Thanks for tip. I was wondering where the Meade Rep. got the information. I got a call from Meade yesterday afternoon. They said they were still analyzing the problem and would get an answer today. The rep then said he had been doing some checking and there may be a problem with my collimation screws being too loose causing the problem. May well be. I'm sure that could be a problem.
In thinking it through, the collimation screws loose should have no effect on a bench mounted OTA aimed horizontally at an artificial star. The scope is collimated to a tee just outside focus. Then moved through focus to inside focus with a FeatherTouch and collimation is markedly out. This behavior is so different from other SCTs there has to be something going on. Somehow I feel the answer is going to be what I am doing but they sure need to tell me what it is. I'm following the procedure in the manual.
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7006
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Just spoke with Scott Roberts, VP at Meade. He has tested a 10" LX200R just off the production line with no problems. He acknowledged the picture at the start of this thread does show a problem and we both felt maybe the two particular units I received have a problem and the new ones do not. I indicated it may have been an early production run as several other LX200R owners here on CN indicated they have the collimation manifestation too.
Scott said there is a new production run coming off the line this week and he will test several more samples. If these pass the plan is to send me one of them and take the one here back for testing. Sure hope the production runs are fine now.
More news as it comes in.
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12208
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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Quote:
Just spoke with Scott Roberts, VP at Meade. He has tested a 10" LX200R just off the production line with no problems. He acknowledged the picture at the start of this thread does show a problem and we both felt maybe the two particular units I received have a problem and the new ones do not. I indicated it may have been an early production run as several other LX200R owners here on CN indicated they have the collimation manifestation too.
Scott said there is a new production run coming off the line this week and he will test several more samples. If these pass the plan is to send me one of them and take the one here back for testing. Sure hope the production runs are fine now.
More news as it comes in.
And if that one still has problems, then Scott don't know how to collimate.  
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Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
 Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7006
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Good one Jeff. 
He's already called me again since the above post. They are serious about it. Next time he calls I'm going to ask if he wants me to evaluate a 14" model. Whoo hooo. Put that on the CGE with the Celestron C-14 side by side. Bet that would push it over the limit.
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12208
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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Quote:
He's already called me again since the above post. They are serious about it. Next time he calls I'm going to ask if he wants me to evaluate a 14" model. Whoo hooo. Put that on the CGE with the Celestron C-14 side by side. Bet that would push it over the limit.
Now THAT would be cool..
2 14" scopes, side by side... If anyone ever asks what the capacity of the CGE is, you can post a pic of that.. 
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Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
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Moggi1964
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 2515
Loc: Madison. NJ. USA
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I had a very positive experience with Scott when I had a problem with the LX90 I won at NEAF. He got straight on to it and the outcome was me paying for an upgrade to the LX200R 10".
Unfortunately that has proven to be a frustrating experience as some of you know. I think I need to get in touch with Scott again.
Keep us informed Jerry.
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Morris
WO Megrez 80 ED F/7
WO 8x42 binoculars
Seymor Rosin F/4.5 Astrograph in the making
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mdine1us
sage
Reged: 03/14/06
Posts: 354
Loc: San Diego
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So, I wonder.... Does this mean that Meade is considering a general recall of the early production tubes?
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lerock
sage
Reged: 03/23/06
Posts: 311
Loc: Arizona Coast
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Quote:
Good one Jeff.
He's already called me again since the above post. They are serious about it. Next time he calls I'm going to ask if he wants me to evaluate a 14" model. Whoo hooo. Put that on the CGE with the Celestron C-14 side by side. Bet that would push it over the limit.
Now that would be a great comparison.... 
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Mike
18" f4.5 Obsession #1377
W/Argo Navis DSC
6" f/10 ANRA Canopus, circa 1963, modified for solar
If you don't make dust, You eat it.....
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Moggi1964
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 2515
Loc: Madison. NJ. USA
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What is the serial number on your current 10" Jerry?
I want to see how close yours is to mine.
I was going to collimate the scope tonight but my CSC was way off unfortunately. Guess it will have to wait till Friday night at the BFSP in PA.
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Morris
WO Megrez 80 ED F/7
WO 8x42 binoculars
Seymor Rosin F/4.5 Astrograph in the making
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7006
Loc: Lexington, SC
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I'll get the serial number posted tonight. Won't be to where the equipment is till tonight.
Oh...... and by the way. Meade support is fantastic compared to Hughes Direcway Internet Satellite service. Was testing side by side (Yes, another side by side comparison. Its a thing with me.) with WildBlue. WildBlue is the new provider and I have both dishes side by side. The WildBlue goes from 1.5 mips down to about 72 mips (at night). So I tried for 3 hours this morning to upgrade from home service level to professional on the Hughes system. Whoa, give me Meade support any day. Finally, the only thing the 5th Hughes rep. and I could figure out to fix the upgrade dilemma was to cancel service. So it's WildBlue for awhile.
You folks are so luck with landline broadband.
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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LLEEGE
Running out of Oxygen
Reged: 03/03/05
Posts: 7013
Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
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Quote:
WildBlue is the new provider .....
Jerry,
You are a glutton for punishment! 
Can you say Guinnea pig?
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AP900,LXD75
AP140EDF, TSA102, ZS80EDII
C8-OTA
Canon 20D, 350Hutech
PST
Coming soon:
Lunt LD60T/DS
AP Traveler
AP130EDF (returning home)
CGEM
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Jeff Young
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/04/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Ireland
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Jerry --
Try a radio link. We have to use VPN for work, and it's not compatible with the high latency of satellite systems, so we're forced to radio. But we get a pretty reliable 2 mb/s from it here in Ireland. (It is line-of-sight though. We're fortunate to be on top of a hill.)
-- Jeff.
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Nikon 18x70s / UA Millennium Colorado:
Solarscope SF70 / TV Pronto / AP400QMD Coronado SolarMax40 DS / Bogen 055+3130
APM MC1610 / Tak FC-100 / AP1200GTO Tak Mewlon 250 / AP600EGTO
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7006
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Quote:
Jerry --
Try a radio link. We have to use VPN for work, and it's not compatible with the high latency of satellite systems, so we're forced to radio. But we get a pretty reliable 2 mb/s from it here in Ireland. (It is line-of-sight though. We're fortunate to be on top of a hill.)
-- Jeff.
Man Jeff. That sounds like an alternative. I have line of site to a possible location that is 3/4 mile away. Is there a link to equipment. Last time I checked on microwave it was much pounds.
Luke.... Glutton or magnet????? Or may be politely determined. It's an old trick I learned from my kids. You can get your way when the other party gets worn slap out and gives in. (Speaking of Meade, I haven't heard from them today. Email time.)
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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lerock
sage
Reged: 03/23/06
Posts: 311
Loc: Arizona Coast
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Jerry,
Google Motorola Canopy & see if will take you anywhere. It's a campus system, but it may provide you with other links or ideas. 
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Mike
18" f4.5 Obsession #1377
W/Argo Navis DSC
6" f/10 ANRA Canopus, circa 1963, modified for solar
If you don't make dust, You eat it.....
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7006
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Will do Mike.
Several people have asked the serial number of the LX200R 10" I have. It is:
130633
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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lerock
sage
Reged: 03/23/06
Posts: 311
Loc: Arizona Coast
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Also Jerry,
If that near by source is a WIFI, there are people who make ant. & amps for longer range reception. Check with your local computer store or the web. 
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Mike
18" f4.5 Obsession #1377
W/Argo Navis DSC
6" f/10 ANRA Canopus, circa 1963, modified for solar
If you don't make dust, You eat it.....
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Moggi1964
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 2515
Loc: Madison. NJ. USA
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Quote:
Will do Mike.
Several people have asked the serial number of the LX200R 10" I have. It is:
130633
Thanks Jerry. I just got back from a washed out BFSP and the scope is still in the car but will check my s/n tomorrow as I am heading out straight away to Long Beach Island to a rainy beach house 
No word from Meade I take it; I'll be back online Monday pm.
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Morris
WO Megrez 80 ED F/7
WO 8x42 binoculars
Seymor Rosin F/4.5 Astrograph in the making
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LLEEGE
Running out of Oxygen
Reged: 03/03/05
Posts: 7013
Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
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From what I understand, Meade's SN won't give you any idea of a production timeline.
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AP900,LXD75
AP140EDF, TSA102, ZS80EDII
C8-OTA
Canon 20D, 350Hutech
PST
Coming soon:
Lunt LD60T/DS
AP Traveler
AP130EDF (returning home)
CGEM
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Moggi1964
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 2515
Loc: Madison. NJ. USA
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Hmm!
Does anyone else have any knowledge of the Meade serial numbering system? You may well be right LLEEGE.
My s/n is: 102891 by the way.
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Morris
WO Megrez 80 ED F/7
WO 8x42 binoculars
Seymor Rosin F/4.5 Astrograph in the making
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7006
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Folks, just finished a long conversation with Scott Roberts, VP at Meade. They could not find the problem in the production run last week. However, they feel the work we have done here has identified something in the early production run. They feel it may be a mirror problem or most likely something with the baffle tube. They are sending me another one that has been examined by them and will pick up mine for careful analysis in the lab.
Scott says they stand behind their products 100% and asked for anyone that has this problem/manifestation to notify their support people. He said if anyone with this problem felt better going through me here on CN for the notification process to ask them to PM me and I would contact Scott directly for you. This would give it priority treatment. I'll be glad to do that because, again, from the results of testing my 10' RCX last year and what I've seen on the LX200R the optics are a technological improvement.
So things are looking good.
This will be posted in the other related thread to make sure others that are affected become aware.
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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