msc
sage
Reged: 08/10/06
Posts: 263
|
|
Joad.... excellent feedback, the BT's are lookin better and better...and at that price, the risk is minimal vs. these other expensive alternatives....
Binocs = wide view, although I knew this, you just slam dunked its significance for deep sky viewing.... which is mainly what I am chasing....
A few questions if you would be so kind....
I bet the BT's benefit greatly by wide AFOV eyepieces, right?
What fl EP's will the BT's handle?
What is the fl of the BT objective?
What is the length and width of the binocs?
What is your opinion with the fork n pod that comes with it?
|
Joad
Wordsmith
   
Reged: 03/22/05
Posts: 12022
|
|
I will stand corrected on any of this, because my binos were acquired used and I have no manual, but here goes.
The BTs *do* like wide field eps. The ones provided (as EdZ has noted in a review somewhere around here) are good. Something like a pair of Radians would be even better (EdZ has many posts about eps that go well with the 100mm BT), but I am satisfied with the supplied set. I am seriously contemplating click-stop zoom eps for a convenient range of magnifications, however. They do take any 1.25 inch ep.
I think the fl of the bino is around 600mm (EdZ has posted the exact figure around here somewhere: oddly enough, Oberwerk doesn't list it among the specs). I would think that any fl eyepiece that produced a magnification from around 15X to 100X would work, but I don't think the 100X image would be nearly bright enough. Probably wouldn't collimate either. Reading Edz's experiences with his BT, I think these things reach a maximum useable/enjoyable magnification at around 60X or so, but your mileage may vary.
I'd have to go down and measure them, but offhand I'd estimate that they are about 24 inches long (plus or minus) and about 10 inches wide (plus or minus). The key thing is that they are a very heavy triplet (26 pounds, not including mount and tripod).
The fork mount is wonderful; the tripod first rate. These are tricky to mount in the dark, however, especially with the mount fully extended. Good thing they have a handle on top.
And, yep, compared to $12,000, these things are hard to beat. I'll add that the color correction is very good on them. The package Oberwerk offers is a remarkably good deal. The case is very useful to have too. You are good to go from the get-go with this package.
|
msc
sage
Reged: 08/10/06
Posts: 263
|
|
Thanks Joad, I found the elusvie link with the details....
http://www.binocularschina.com/binoculars/100mmfocuser_45.html
|
grbrown
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/09/05
Posts: 643
Loc: Ampthill, UK, 52:02N 0:30W
|
|
Quote:
25x150s and 25x141s are to binoculars what 24" plus dobs are to telescopes -both are the ultimate, but also big, user unfriendly, and expensive
you should not go from an 8" to a 30" scope, nor should you go to 141-150mm without spending some time with a 100mm (>) binoculars to see if you really enjoy/use them enough to justify getting/living with the ultimate
edj
A bit like buying a big inch Harley, before that Boss Hoss? I think I follow you!
-------------------- Graham
"one eye good, two eyes better...the more I look, the more I see"
BT100-45 degrees, plus 35,24,17,13,9mm Sieberts
15x80, 7x50 Steiners
12x50, 10x42, 8x20 Leica Trinovids
7x35 Minolta
|
msc
sage
Reged: 08/10/06
Posts: 263
|
|
Joad, you were so right... I have been using the BT-100's for a few weeks and they are superb. I really wonder how much more benefit the 2x light gathering ability of the 25x141's Galaxies would offer.
Also, the included EP's are superb. I compared them with the Panoptic 24's and actually prefer the supplied EP's. This is a classic case of an EP's design oppimized for ONE task. I also concur that 11mm EP's are about the max these binocs can handle. But all in all, I am OK with that.... ~60x
Comments above regarding BV'ing vs. Binocs are well received. Binocs are the only option for wide sweeping bright views. Once you go with BV'er, to get the same light, you will nearly double the Scopes fl, cutting the TFOV in half using an APO. With a reflector, you could easily cut this TFOV in half again due to the added OC's required to use the BV'ers, with reflectors, assuming 2x corrector.
So in general, BV'ing should be considered two eyed, high powered viewing with limited TFOV. Binocs offer the unique wide TFOV with very appealing brightness levels (due to dual objectives) A huge distinction probably often overlooked.
I imagine it is possible to fine tune this using a very large APO and a 2" BV'er, allowing the biggest EP's made, with very large field stops, which may get you back to the binocs TFOV. But this set up, say 6" APO (or achro if you can find one) with 2" BV'er is even more expensive and bulkier than the BT-100s by a long shot... so the Binocs win hands-down, although the scope has a value by itself for higher magnfication.
Then to compare the Miyauchi 25x141 Galaxies.....you would need an 8" APO w/ 2" BV'er to equal the views.... and 8" APO's with the 2" BV'ers and 2 pair of the ultra expensive wide field stop EP's are easily in the $30k range with mount, so the Galaxies ($12k) seem like a bargain compared to this alternative.... Not to mention portability... So no matter how you slice it, binocs have an amazing value for bright wide views. I am actually surprised they are not more popular.... My guess is, they are not advertised by the big makers, so most people don't consider them as true astronomy instruments....but one look at the BT's and it will change your thinking...
After a 100mm objectives in binocs, it seems the gains are VERY disproportional to the cost, size and weight. Hence when the sanity checks must come into play :-) But I surely do have Binoc fever now, after using the BT's for a few weeks!
I would consider the BT-100's probably the most undervalued astronomy instrument on the market. (assuming you enjoy bright wide views) Many experienced observers that look through them are stunned at the views.... specially considering the cost of the binocs, 25mm EP's, Rock solid fork, and decent tripod all for $1750...
|
Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
   
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14992
Loc: Kuiper Belt
|
|
When I hit the lottery, I am going to buy the Miyauchi 25x141 and put it side by side in a shootout with the Fuji 25x150.
I won't post the results though, as I will be dead from wide-field, premium-glass overdose.
Clear dark skies...
MikeG
-------------------- Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Specializing in exotic and rare meteorite falls.
|
Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
   
Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 1040
Loc: NE Ohio
|
|
Mike,
No, I don't think the views will have mortal consequences. But if I were to do the side-by-side comparison from the Big Bend region of Texas, I'd probably be taken away in a straight-jacket once I got back to light-polluted Canton, OH.
"Stars....gone. Stars...all gone...." "Yes, Mr. Creed, stars all gone. But you'll be going to a happier place..."
Clear Skies, Phil
-------------------- "Why suffer from insanity when you can revel in it?"
Wilderness Center Astronomy Club member since 1995
ICQ Comet Observer Code: CRE01
*****
16" f/4.5 Truss Dobsonian (FOR SALE!!)
Orion 120mm ST Refractor
23mm Axiom LX
13mm Nagler Type 6
9mm Nagler Type 6
1.75X Siebert Barlow
*****
|
Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
   
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14992
Loc: Kuiper Belt
|
|
Since this thread appears to be heading in the direction of unbridled fantasy...(not sure how that happened!) ...
I'll throw a million dollars at Roland Christensen (did I spell that right) over at Astro-Physics. I'll have AP custom make a one-of-a-kind 200mm APO binocular with 90-degree angled eyepieces. Of course, this will be on a motorized custom AP mount with GoTo and tracking. A built-in filter wheel will allow the instant selection of a variety of filters, including : OIII, HA, HB, UHC, solar, and polarizer. Lastly, a perimeter alarm system to protect the binocular while it is setup on the field. If I get distracted while talking about binos, someone could sneak up behind me and put a fingerprint on the lens. The binocular will BEEP loudly and then speak "Please step away from the binocular. This is your first and last warning.", at which time the metal body of the binocular becomes electrified until I give the disarm command.
Clear dark skies...
MikeG
-------------------- Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Specializing in exotic and rare meteorite falls.
|
hubwen
journeyman
Reged: 04/15/05
Posts: 8
Loc: 53N10E
|
|
. . . like this one?
http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug/photos/view/9a1e?b=6
Clear skies
Hubertus
|
edwincjones
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 4557
|
|
back to reality,
a 100mm binocular and 12-15" dob is a hard combinatin to beat
edj
--------------------
n w arkansas
Binocular, Solar, General Amateur Astronomy
|
msc
sage
Reged: 08/10/06
Posts: 263
|
|
Ed, I agree..... with that combination, you hit on the sweet spot of both refractors w/ dual eye viewing and reflectors...i.e. price performance ratio is maximized for both! Makes it hard to justify the Galaxy's though :-) The 14" reflector seems to be the sweet spot in the reflectors range.... The edge of portability and yet enough apt. to justify the jump up from the APO's.
|
OBERWERK
Vendor
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 89
Loc: OH
|
|
Quote:
When I hit the lottery, I am going to buy the Miyauchi 25x141 and put it side by side in a shootout with the Fuji 25x150.
I won't post the results though, as I will be dead from wide-field, premium-glass overdose.
Clear dark skies...
MikeG
For anyone that is seriously considering the Miyauchi 24x141 Galaxy, we just ordered two of them (complete with all options). Delivery expected in early January. It's likely that one will be sold before it arrives, but we should have at least one unit for our showroom. Kevin Busarow BigBinoculars.com
|
Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
   
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14992
Loc: Kuiper Belt
|
|
Quote:
For anyone that is seriously considering the Miyauchi 24x141 Galaxy, we just ordered two of them (complete with all options). Delivery expected in early January. It's likely that one will be sold before it arrives, but we should have at least one unit for our showroom.
Kevin Busarow
BigBinoculars.com
As tempting as that mighty piece of glass is, I wish to avoid divorce at all costs! So I am going to pretend that I did not read Kevin's last post.
Kevin, are you going to resist the temptation to buy the "showroom model" yourself after you've had a chance to play around with it and try it out? I couldn't work in the same building as a piece of glass like that - I wouldn't get any work done. I'd sit there, stare at it and fantasize about NELM 7.0 skies...
Clear dark skies...
MikeG
-------------------- Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Specializing in exotic and rare meteorite falls.
|
Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2707
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
|
|
I wish Miyauchi would consider offering higher power EPs than 45X to go with those huge 5.55 in APO objectives. A modest 18X per inch(100X) magnification will be great for viewing the planets.
BTW, Kevein, Do you have any update from Miyauchi about 75X and 100X EPs for the Saturn III?
Erik D
|
OBERWERK
Vendor
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 89
Loc: OH
|
|
Quote:
BTW, Kevein, Do you have any update from Miyauchi about 75X and 100X EPs for the Saturn III?
Erik D
Hi Erik, Can't get Miyauchi to say for sure if they'll be in the next shipment, but we did also order more Saturn III's to entice them to produce more EP's. -Kevin
|
OBERWERK
Vendor
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 89
Loc: OH
|
|
Quote:
Kevin, are you going to resist the temptation to buy the "showroom model" yourself after you've had a chance to play around with it and try it out? I couldn't work in the same building as a piece of glass like that - I wouldn't get any work done. I'd sit there, stare at it and fantasize about NELM 7.0 skies...
Clear dark skies...
MikeG
Yeah, I spent a little time with the last BR-141 we had, and it was a blast. But I've got "free" access to BT-100-45's, so can't justify that expense to my wife either
|
mplkn1
sage
Reged: 08/28/05
Posts: 393
Loc: Centrally Inaccessible, PA
|
|
Quote:
But I've got "free" access to BT-100-45's, so can't justify that expense to my wife either
*sigh*
-------------------- Michael -
"I am obliged to confess that I should sooner live in a society governed by the first two thousand names in the Boston telephone directory than in a society governed by the two thousand faculty members of Harvard University."
William F. Buckley, 1963.
Orion (Celestron) 8" SCT on SkyView Pro, Telrad.
Garrett Optical Gemini 25x100 WP IF,
Bogen 3051 tripod w/ 3063 head.
Oberwerk 10x60 Mariner.
Palm Planetarium.
Stellarium on a Motion Computing tablet PC.
|
Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
   
Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 1040
Loc: NE Ohio
|
|
OK, I think I got the post-winning-lottery-ticket plan:
1. Get Miyauchi 141mm glasses with interchangeable EPs. 2. Get pilot's license. 3. Buy ranch in West Texas with landing strip. 4. Set up the 141s on a GOTO-mount. 5. Complain about the annoyingly-bright zodiacal light and those horrible nights when the NLM is "only" 7.0
Clear Skies, Phil
-------------------- "Why suffer from insanity when you can revel in it?"
Wilderness Center Astronomy Club member since 1995
ICQ Comet Observer Code: CRE01
*****
16" f/4.5 Truss Dobsonian (FOR SALE!!)
Orion 120mm ST Refractor
23mm Axiom LX
13mm Nagler Type 6
9mm Nagler Type 6
1.75X Siebert Barlow
*****
|
Mr. Bill
Carpal Tunnel
  
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 2790
Loc: Just passing through.....
|
|
Hey guys...
A couple of nights under good skies with these and all this handwringing is academic....
Notice the difference between 100mm and 150mm.
-------------------- 10x50 Fujinon FMT-SX binos
15x70 AP binos + Paragon p-mount
Oberwerk 100BT 45 degree + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/6.5 Antares achromat
150mm f/8 homemade achromat....EE Barnard MW Sweeper
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery split tube
35mm Pan, 26mm Nagler, 17mm Nagler, 13mm Ethos, 8mm Ethos
Member IDA
|
msc
sage
Reged: 08/10/06
Posts: 263
|
|
OK, Mr. Bill, seesm like you have experience with 100 vs. 150mm binocs.... would you be so kind, and try to quantify the real differenes in what you see? I have the BT 100's and am contemplating the next jump up... thanks
|