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Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

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L. Kraven
journeyman


Reged: 09/27/06
Posts: 8
Need Advice Regarding Canon 10x42 L IS
      #1169599 - 09/28/06 04:55 AM

Hello folks! Been lurking here for a few weeks, and have gone through most of the pertinent links on Edz's excellent collection of posts (the ones from the Start Here thread).

This has the potential to be a bit long, so if you aren't interested in the chaff and still would like to share some insight about the Canon 10x42, please skip down a bit.

I live in Southern California, which means that the skies I live under are about as far from the ideal as you can imagine. I have owned a scope in the past (a little Televue Ranger) which I sold due to lack of use.

This past weekend, I had the opportunity to go to Kitt Peak National Observatory outside of Tucson, AZ for what I can only describe as a life-changing experience. I took part in the Advanced Observers Program offered by the NOAO.

I got to view my first deep space objects through a 31mm Nagler attached to a 20" Ritchie-Chretien scope under an incredible sky. I saw six perfectly separated stars of the Trapezium (I was only looking for 4) in the first nebula I have ever "seen" that wasn't a photograph.

And speaking of photographs, piggy-backed on the RC scope was a 4" takahashi refractor. I had the opportunity to attach my digital camera to this scope and took these pics:

http://www.lkraven.com/kittpeak

They are modest, but they are a unique souvenir from maybe some of the most magical 8 hours of my life so far.

Anyway, one of the things that floored me while I was up there was the spectacular views available through a pair of 8x50 binoculars-- they were Celestron brand, but I did not note the model. Their construction was so-so, and the diopter adjustment was very loose and because it came from a stable of several dozen pair they use for visitors, my guess is that they were modestly priced.

Even so, I was amazed at what I could see of Andromeda, and the stars in general.

So I am in the market for a pair of excellent binoculars, and I have about $1000 budgeted. I have some specific criteria, and some specific questions which you learned gentlemen may be able to help with--

I am currently leaning towards the Canon 10x42 IS binoculars for a couple of reasons:

1. I am partial to Canon glass, owning quite a few Canon 35mm lenses.

2. I am partial the IS technology.

3. I know next to nothing about binoculars outside of what I have tried to absorb by reading here for the past week or so-- which actually means that I know more now than most people, and certainly more than I knew before. And knowing very little, the 10x42 seem like a good bet.

I prize portability because I take trips to dark skies, and would carry binoculars with me, whereas I am unlikely to pack a full-sized scope. That means that having to not pack a tripod would be an additional bonus.

I know the IS is no substitute for a proper mount (and in fact, am painfully aware of this, because I am familiar with the IS technology present in my lenses)-- but knowing I will be in places where I will definately NOT have a mount available, the IS certainly seems like an excellent and more convenient substitute.

I also plan to use these scopes for terrestrial viewing-- though this is of secondary importance.

My questions are as follows (any input would be greatly appreciated):

1. Given the budget of ~1000, and given the criteria above, would I be better off getting something else and foregoing the IS? If so, do you have any suggestions?

2. Knowing that I am likely to be limited by the magnification more than the aperture, should I instead be looking at the similarly priced 18x50 IS binos?

Basically, I am hoping a few of you who have experience with this magnification, and maybe these binoculars can give me an idea about whether or not it's the right way to go with the budget I have. I am unlikely to purchase another pair of binoculars soon afterwards, so I am looking for something that will be a great tool for learning the skies but at the same time fulfill other more terrestrial needs. I would like more information about alternatives before I pull the trigger on this purchase.

Thanks guys-- even if no one answers this post, you all have been extremely helpful in educating me through your previous posts.

Neil


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Rick
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 2626
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Re: Need Advice Regarding Canon 10x42 L IS new [Re: L. Kraven]
      #1169623 - 09/28/06 05:32 AM

Get the Canon 15x50 IS. It is the best value in the entire Canon lineup. 15x is the sweet spot for bino astronomy with just the right amount of mag to keep things interesting while still keeping enough field of view for great panning of the Milky Way.

The 18x is also very good but you give up some field of view and will have slighly dimmer images because of the smaller exit pupil.

Actually my Nikon 18x70 Astrolux would fit your budget like a glove

clear skies,
Rick

--------------------
www.japanastro.com


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Wes James
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 2519
Re: Need Advice Regarding Canon 10x42 L IS new [Re: Rick]
      #1169630 - 09/28/06 05:51 AM

Hi, Neil-
I am expecting to receive- tomorrow or Saturday- a pair of the Canon 10x50L IS binoculars. I just went through the same thing you did as far as researching binocs (you can view my earlier post in this same forum under the "Nikon 10x70 Astroluxe heading). I was considering adding a pair of the Nikons, however I ended up going with the aforementioned 10x42L's. I, too considered going to the higher power, larger aperature Canon's when I first started looking at the Canon IS line. I initially questioned the smaller aperature. The key factor was Les's inputs- and his reference to Sky & Telescopes review- which I purchased online & read. "The finest binoculars I have ever used for astronomy". That quote by S & T's reviewer pretty much sealed the deal for me. The other deal sealer for me was the fact these binoculars are the only ones in the IS line that use Canon's premium "L" glass.

--------------------
Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL

Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O

"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers


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Alan French
Night Owl
*****

Reged: 01/28/05
Posts: 1496
Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Need Advice Regarding Canon 10x42 L IS new [Re: Wes James]
      #1169718 - 09/28/06 08:44 AM

I have used all the Canon IS binoculars except for the smaller 8x version and the 18x version. We have the 12x36 IS IIs and the older 15x45s here. I use the 12x36s for birding and astronomy, and the 15x45s mostly for astronomy. The 15x45s definitely have an edge over the 12x36s for star gazing.

If you main interest is astronomy, I think the 15x50s are the way to go - the extra aperture and magnification will provide significantly better views of celestial objects than the 10x42s. If you want to do other things, the 10x42 L might be a good choice. Anything beyond the 12x36, however, is a real handful and not something you want to carry around extensively.

I use the IS binoculars in a lawn chair, and find the view is essentially motionless - I don't think I'd do any better with a trip (and just a tripod is a horrid way to try looking overhead).

Some people don't seem to like the way the IS technology works. I don't have that issue, but I'd recommend trying a pair before making a purchase. You want to make sure you will be happy with them.

Clear skies, Alan

Edited by Alan French (09/28/06 08:45 AM)


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Les
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 04/22/06
Posts: 677
Loc: Maryland
Re: Need Advice Regarding Canon 10x42 L IS new [Re: L. Kraven]
      #1169770 - 09/28/06 09:32 AM

Hi Neil,

I would say that if you really plan on traveling to dark skies and don't mind the extra weight, then go for the 50mm aperture. Otherwise, I think the 10x42 is a good compromise. I cannot comment on the difference in optical quality between the new L series and the older glasses since I have not made the comparison. None of these glasses wil show 6 stars in the Trapezium though That must have been quite a viewing experience that you had.

--------------------
Les

Canon 10x42L IS
Oberwerks BT80/45, Helix Hercules mount on Oberwerks Standard Tripod
Swift 8x44ED Ultralite
Questar 50th Anniversary Model, 501 head on Manfrotto 475 tripod
Stellarvue SV90T 90mm Fluorite refractor Bogen 3236/Televue Tele-Pod Head
Questar 7 Astro
Vixen GP-DX on Baader Surveyor Tripod


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Rich N
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5347
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
Re: Need Advice Regarding Canon 10x42 L IS new [Re: L. Kraven]
      #1170072 - 09/28/06 12:07 PM

Hi Neil,

Go to a store selling Canon IS binoculars and look through the 10x42L IS, 15x50IS and 18x50 IS. See if you have any problem with eye relief. Can you easily most of the field of view? Does the IS damp your vibrations enough when looking at small, distant objects?

I picked the Canon 15x50IS over the 18x50 IS because I liked the larger field and I felt the 18x model didn't quite dampen my vibrations well enough. The 10x model wasn't out at the time. I've tried the 10x a few times but just haven't warmed up to it enough yet to buy one. At 10x and 12x I'm still into using non-IS binoculars.

While you are looking, try the Zeiss 10x42 FL and Leica 10x42 Ultravid. Even though they are more than your budget it is worth seeing how they perform.

It also wouldn't be a bad to try some of the $400 10x42 and 8x42s.

If you can find them try the Nikon 10x42 SE and my favorite the Nikon 12x50 SE.

Have fun shopping!

Rich


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Les
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 04/22/06
Posts: 677
Loc: Maryland
Re: Need Advice Regarding Canon 10x42 L IS new [Re: Rich N]
      #1170129 - 09/28/06 12:40 PM

Neil,

Good advice from RichN. All excellent binocular recommendations. I must be a "gurly man" because I can't handhold anything more powerful than a 4x opera glass steady enough for a pleasant viewing experience. My hat's off to those that can handhold 12x and 15x binos.

--------------------
Les

Canon 10x42L IS
Oberwerks BT80/45, Helix Hercules mount on Oberwerks Standard Tripod
Swift 8x44ED Ultralite
Questar 50th Anniversary Model, 501 head on Manfrotto 475 tripod
Stellarvue SV90T 90mm Fluorite refractor Bogen 3236/Televue Tele-Pod Head
Questar 7 Astro
Vixen GP-DX on Baader Surveyor Tripod


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Kimmo Absetz
member


Reged: 10/12/05
Posts: 99
Re: Need Advice Regarding Canon 10x42 L IS new [Re: Rich N]
      #1170158 - 09/28/06 12:52 PM

Neil,

I have both the 15x50 and the 10x42 Canons, but my experience might not be entirely relevant to you since my prime use for them is birding, with astronomy taking up much less of my spare time. I would second Rich in recommending the 15x50 over the 18x50 since the 15x already seems to be very close to the limits of what the IS system and the basic optical design can do. Unless you can brace yourself to be very stable (like having your elbows lean against the armrests of your lounge chair), stars tend to wander a bit between pinpoints and slightly elongated "comets." This despite my unit being a rather sharp specimen which has been very carefully re-collimated by an experienced op-tech. The couple of 18x50's I've tried had much more prominent chromatic aberration and a less satisfactory stabilization.

The 10x42 has significantly better contrast, truer colors and a higher light transmission. However, for astronomy, the magnification advantage of 15x over 10x is going to override these advantages. On the other hand, the image stabilization works even better with the 10x.

Optically - providing you get a good specimen - they are as good as just about anything. I have compared the 10x42 against all the top non-stabilized 42mm binoculars, and it easily holds its ground. Against the Zeiss 10x42 FL, the Canon loses a fraction in light throughput but wins handily in off-axis resolution and, rather surprisingly, also appears to have better contrast. I also have a Nikon 10x42 SE, some ten years old now, and of the two the Canon has the better image.

Both Canons are rather heavy, and ergonomically they are plagued by super-large eyecups which do not mate well with larger than average noses or deep-set eyes. I would of course like them to be smaller and lighter, but considering that they incorporate a stabilization system, I find the weight compromise very reasonable. A good, wide neoprene strap, preferably without edge reinforcement stitching, helps a lot.

Kimmo


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Les
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 04/22/06
Posts: 677
Loc: Maryland
Re: Need Advice Regarding Canon 10x42 L IS new [Re: Kimmo Absetz]
      #1170187 - 09/28/06 01:08 PM

Quote:

A good, wide neoprene strap, preferably without edge reinforcement stitching, helps a lot.




Also look at the thread regarding replacing the end caps on the 10x42L. Mine would fall out if I just stared at them long enough. Some snap on camera lens covers fixed that.

--------------------
Les

Canon 10x42L IS
Oberwerks BT80/45, Helix Hercules mount on Oberwerks Standard Tripod
Swift 8x44ED Ultralite
Questar 50th Anniversary Model, 501 head on Manfrotto 475 tripod
Stellarvue SV90T 90mm Fluorite refractor Bogen 3236/Televue Tele-Pod Head
Questar 7 Astro
Vixen GP-DX on Baader Surveyor Tripod


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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate


Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 3467
Loc: NJ USA
Re: Need Advice Regarding Canon 10x42 L IS new [Re: L. Kraven]
      #1170746 - 09/28/06 06:07 PM

I have the 8x25,10x42L and 12x36 IS II and use the 10x42L's 90% of the time because the view is fantastic. For astro use I use my astro binoculars 90% of the time.

Joe

--------------------
Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom


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rushintuit
sage


Reged: 04/01/06
Posts: 267
Loc: Farpoint Observatory
Re: Need Advice Regarding Canon 10x42 L IS new [Re: L. Kraven]
      #1171079 - 09/28/06 09:50 PM

I am also a big fan of the Canon 10x42L. I took them out for an enjoyable evening under the stars two weeks ago and then the next afternoon for an airshow. The IS was fantastic and the 10x with 65 degree field gives you the flexibility for all sorts of uses.

--------------------
/// Stellarvue SV102ED /// Nikon 12x50 /// Fujinon 16x70 /// SkyTools 2 /// The Desktop Universe All Sky CCD Mosaic In Monochrome Mode ///


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BillC
on a new path
*****

Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2129
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: Need Advice Regarding Canon 10x42 L IS new [Re: rushintuit]
      #1171371 - 09/29/06 01:59 AM

>>>Optically - providing you get a good specimen . . . <<<

Boy, I wish everyone understood that concept.

Cheers,

Bill

--------------------
William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .


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Kimmo Absetz
member


Reged: 10/12/05
Posts: 99
Re: Need Advice Regarding Canon 10x42 L IS new [Re: BillC]
      #1171426 - 09/29/06 03:55 AM

Bill,

I wish the manufacturers would make that concept redundant to us. I'm sure you know a lot about why they haven't yet.

Kimmo


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