wrather1
AstroBear
Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 3037
Loc: Dallas, Texas
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I found a nice trailer that's tall enough to put my trolley-mounted RCX inside without any disassembly. I was thinking about wheeling it up the ramp, locking the wheels, strapping it down, and taking it on road trips to dark sky sites many miles from Big D, where I could simply roll it back out of the trailer and be all set up ready to go.
Has anyone done this with the RCX or similar 12" scopes mounted on a wheeled platform? Do you think the road vibrations would mess up any of the the optical train? The scope seemed to survive the trip from Meade to Astronomics and then to Dallas without even disturbing the collimation. Of course this was in a disassembled condition inside a padded box... what I'm trying to avoid is having to disassemble/reassemble a very heavy OTA and tripod each time I want to take the scope away from the Dallas light dome.
Is this a duff idea or worth a try??
DW 
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"Don't worry about what telescope you own, or its quality. Just get out under the night sky, and enjoy God's wondrous universe." - T. M. Back
Meade RCX400-12 on JMI trolley "Ursa Major"
TMB 130SS on EQ6 PRO "Ursus Polaris"
Orion ED80 "Ursa Minor", WO ZS66ED "grab-'n'-go"
Canon EOS 30D (Hutech), Meade DSI, Philips ToUcam Pro
North Texas Clear Sky Chart
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JAT Observatory
Space Freak
Reged: 02/20/05
Posts: 5861
Loc: Eastern PA
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I would be a bit leery about transporting the RCX in a trailer and relying on the trailer's springs as the only means of shock absorption.
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-Marcus
The problem with free speech is even the stupid have a voice.
http://jatobservatory.org
12" LX200R on a Paramount ME
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Pedestal
Post Laureate
Reged: 03/11/06
Posts: 3157
Loc: Smoggy Bottom, Baytown,Texas
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Got into a discussion a while back about transporting large scopes in a trailer. The consensus seemed to be, IF it was a properly sprung trailer, it'd work. Note this is NOT with the OTA/tripod assembled. In fact, I think there were mostly dob examples.
All that said, you might be to rig a pulley system inside the trailer to quickly mount/unmount the OTA...
Hubert
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www.smoggybottom.org
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Snow dog
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/17/05
Posts: 1716
Loc: Alberta Canada
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I agree with Marcus. Unless you have a air ride type of trailer suspension I don't think I would do it. I Put my LX200 in the back seat of my truck because I don't like the idea of it taking a beating in the bed from jolts and bumps, and that's in a padded case.
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Marc
Someone get these crazy dogs off me
12" LX200 Classic
ETX-90PE
Meade DSI
Canon AE-1, EOS Rebel 350
My Home Page
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12218
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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I've seen trailers bounce!
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Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
 Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7006
Loc: Lexington, SC
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David (DW) I'm working on my second similar project as we speak. Mine is a 10 foot enclosed trailer single axle with standard suspension. I did some heuristic testing and decided on this approach. FWIW, here are the results of my logic and testing.
I have a small observatory on a building. The roofing material of the building also covers the floor. The roofing material is a heavy rubberized sheet membrane. While only 1/8 inch thick, it has cushioned the impact of Naglers and gosh knows how many drops of the hand controller and Canon remote. It even cushioned a Celestron 9.25 with 300D on the back (loose clamp on dual dovetail). None of the equipment was hurt at all. So from this actual experience I concluded a little rubber padding can go a long way toward protecting equipment. I know this is not enough for a trailer but have another product I've used while observing on a concrete driveway. It is a rubber "stall mat" or "mucking mat" used for livestock. It's available from Tractor Supply company. This goes on the trailer floor and there are a number of bed mounted tie down points around the mat. The tripod with the mount attached is secured with the feet on the mat. Very light tension is placed on four "tie down" straps. The tension is kept light so as to not compress the rubber mat. I carried my RCX on a rolling dolly on top of this mat.
Seems to work fine for me but your experience may vary. I think taking it apart, fitting it into the back seat or trunk and putting it back together exert a lot of stress on the system too. It certainly isn't as safe as in an observatory but you got to go to the darkness sometimes.
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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JAT Observatory
Space Freak
Reged: 02/20/05
Posts: 5861
Loc: Eastern PA
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The problem with transporting equipment in trailer, car, truck, cart or a rocket is not just shock it is vibration. I've seen what shock, random and sine vibration does to equipment we test at work. There is reason those scopes are shipped packed in foam. Even at low levels I have seen failures with connectors, crimp joints, solder joints, chaffing of wires, PCB board cracks, electronic components, structural stress cracks and mounting point failures.
A drop (of an eyepiece) is a single large shock and maybe 1 or 2 smaller shocks (bounce). In the case of items you drop the mass of that item, where that shock is induced (which is random) and force of that shock has a lot to do with the survival of the item. I agree a rubber mat is obviously better than a concrete floor as that rubber mat does help attenuate that initial shock. But how the shock is transferred though a tripod, or a pier, to a scope riding on a scope buggy, hand truck or in a trailer is very different than dropping an eyepiece on a rubberized floor.
Continuous random and or sine vibration generated by a motorized vehicle or a trailer being pulled by one can be very damaging to certain items. If the item being transported wasn’t designed to sustain shock, sine and random vibration you are asking for trouble. Also if the material used for attenuation isn’t designed for the frequency and amplitude of the vibrations it will due little to protect the item.
In my opinion anyone who does this is playing the unlucky lottery.
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-Marcus
The problem with free speech is even the stupid have a voice.
http://jatobservatory.org
12" LX200R on a Paramount ME
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7006
Loc: Lexington, SC
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I agree with Marcus. It's not a good idea. In my case remember, I'm an EQ person now. This new rig is for the tripod and heavy mount. The OTA will be beside me in seatbelts. With my RCX it was about the only choice short of a tear down and it didn't have to travel very far.
Also, Marcus sparked a memory of the inside of the RCX and the wiring I worked with when installing the Peterson Handles. It is really not designed to take much vibration. In my case the benefit of using the equipment has been weighed against the risk and it's worth it to me getting to that dark site. If it goes anywhere, however, it will be subject to the motion harmonics of the vehicle/UPS/Fed Ex as it is doubtful Meade buys and tunes their foam to harmonic resonance concerns.
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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Pedestal
Post Laureate
Reged: 03/11/06
Posts: 3157
Loc: Smoggy Bottom, Baytown,Texas
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I can think of several solutions to the problem... NONE of them cheap..
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www.smoggybottom.org
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wrather1
AstroBear
Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 3037
Loc: Dallas, Texas
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Harmonic vibrations are a definitely a concern with regard to circuit boards and connectors - Marcus' point is well taken. Jerry's idea of a rubber mat sounds good for an observatory floor too - but I have no obervatory, just an open back yard in a Dallas suburb under a huge light dome. I'm getting desperate to have some dark sky conditions, but taking the OTA/wedge on and off the tripod takes either two strong men or a crane...
One last thought - what do you think of rigging up a plywood sheet supported by partially-inflated, small diameter rubber inner-tubes, i.e. a home-made "air-ride suspenbsion" for the rig to sit on? Seems like that would soak up the harmonic/sinusoidal vibrations Marcus mentioned.
DW
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"Don't worry about what telescope you own, or its quality. Just get out under the night sky, and enjoy God's wondrous universe." - T. M. Back
Meade RCX400-12 on JMI trolley "Ursa Major"
TMB 130SS on EQ6 PRO "Ursus Polaris"
Orion ED80 "Ursa Minor", WO ZS66ED "grab-'n'-go"
Canon EOS 30D (Hutech), Meade DSI, Philips ToUcam Pro
North Texas Clear Sky Chart
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7006
Loc: Lexington, SC
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DW, after a lot of thinking on this, that sounds like a good solution. Also, an array of bungee cords hung from the ceiling and suspend that bad boy. With proper swing restraints of course.
In the 90s I developed a PC based digital imaging system for analysis of narrowing in coronary arteries. A rather large device (desk sized) with two computers and interface boxes. I had to carry it out for demos and bought a 10 foot Wells Cargo covered trailer. We rolled it in and secured it with nylon tie-downs. It went all over the country. Would leave SC and be in Miami one day. Leave from there and go to Iowa then back to SC through the mountains. One time I took it up I77 to Cleveland Clinic in a snow storm. Skidded all the way there. Never had a failure other than PC cards needed reseating. Also delivered large pre-tested installs of these systems the same way. From these experiences I may be more biased to the benefits of the trailer. There are certainly exposures but I worry as much about meteor strikes on the equipment.
The electronics, to me, is of no concern compared to the optical alignment and heat differential resulting from sudden cooling on the glass as the non insulated trailer moves around. In winter the drop could be substantial if moved from a warm house to a cold interstate in a thin aluminum shell. Couple unstable heat/cooling environment with vibration and the results could be mixed.
I plan to move a CGE fully setup but not with the scope mounted.
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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wrather1
AstroBear
Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 3037
Loc: Dallas, Texas
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Thanks, Jerry - good thoughts from your experiences. I had planned to use several racheting nylon tie-downs in all dimensions to restrain any lateral or vertical movement.
The other thing I thought of trying first, probably dangerous, was to go out on a country road with my wife driving while I sit in the trailer and see firsthand what kind of vibrations occur. Probably should wear a helmet & pads. 
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"Don't worry about what telescope you own, or its quality. Just get out under the night sky, and enjoy God's wondrous universe." - T. M. Back
Meade RCX400-12 on JMI trolley "Ursa Major"
TMB 130SS on EQ6 PRO "Ursus Polaris"
Orion ED80 "Ursa Minor", WO ZS66ED "grab-'n'-go"
Canon EOS 30D (Hutech), Meade DSI, Philips ToUcam Pro
North Texas Clear Sky Chart
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7006
Loc: Lexington, SC
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David, I don't see a thing out of line with that in my value judgement system. Simple communication setup would work. "If you hear me scream on the cell phone STOP" type thing. Course the jolting would be so bad you'd drop the cell phone and ...... do you have insurance?
Not what most would recommend but this weekend my wife will be driving me down our 1/2 mile dirt road just to see. I like the idea.
     
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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krackerjack9
professor emeritus
Reged: 04/17/06
Posts: 611
Loc: LSA Anaconda, Iraq
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I would highly not recomend it, only for this reason, if you dont have a trailer that has some sort of air suppension your going to some massive jolts, ratcheting down to the frame rails will only make it worse. Unless you got some pool table type of roads then you could get away with it. The viberation alone is going to be like kids playing kick ball with your mirror. Me I scene way to many things go wrong and trying to secure a tripod type of thing with as much weight you have on top of it, just now way I could do it. Plus the fact you could be doing just great and you get some rabbit or deer or something else jump infront of you you hit the breaks it may not feel like nothing in the truck your towing it with but it might have been just enough to loosen up one strap and from there it just gets worse and if its enclosed you will never know that your banging it from side to side in the trailer..
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LSA Anaconda, Iraq
WO 66ED,Sirus 32mm, Orion Diagonal,10mm Celestron,25mm Possl [ Blair S.] Greensboro,NC WO 66APO Patriot
8mm Televue,4mm Or [ Donald B.] Boise,Idaho
Meade 6.7 Ultra Wide [ Chuck ] USA
Meade 26mm Plossl [ Glenda ] Fort Bliss,Tx
WO 1.25 Diagonal , 6mm Radian,4mmTMB, 40mm Meade 5000, 26mm and 32mm QX Meade, and some other stuff my Credit Card has been buying against my will, haha
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wrather1
AstroBear
Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 3037
Loc: Dallas, Texas
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My oldest son was in the National Guard for a time, and his job was to transport things in/on trailers, including things that go "boom" - so he gave me cautionary input akin to what Krackerjack said. Mainly, he was worried about "trailer bounce" effects and having the top of the scope rig crash into the trailer ceiling. That's why I came up with the idea of tie-downs to keep the tripod from heaving upwards.
Jerry - whaddaya think about rigging it up and then sitting in the trailer WITH the scope to observe what happens? Or, find something of equivalent weight (like a 200lb anvil) that wouldn't break if it bounced? Other than a wireless video camera in the back to monitor the effects, I can't think of a better way to find out. Of course, we're talking VERY short distances here.
DW
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"Don't worry about what telescope you own, or its quality. Just get out under the night sky, and enjoy God's wondrous universe." - T. M. Back
Meade RCX400-12 on JMI trolley "Ursa Major"
TMB 130SS on EQ6 PRO "Ursus Polaris"
Orion ED80 "Ursa Minor", WO ZS66ED "grab-'n'-go"
Canon EOS 30D (Hutech), Meade DSI, Philips ToUcam Pro
North Texas Clear Sky Chart
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7006
Loc: Lexington, SC
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David, I got a bicycle helment I wear on ladders. I'm gonna give it a shot Saturday. Think I'll just put a lawn chair in there instead of the anvil and hold the LX200 14 inch in my lap.
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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wrather1
AstroBear
Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 3037
Loc: Dallas, Texas
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Well, Jerry - what did you find out? Are you still in one piece after the test-ride??
I'm beginning to think maybe I should look at renting a truck instead...:p
Dave W.
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"Don't worry about what telescope you own, or its quality. Just get out under the night sky, and enjoy God's wondrous universe." - T. M. Back
Meade RCX400-12 on JMI trolley "Ursa Major"
TMB 130SS on EQ6 PRO "Ursus Polaris"
Orion ED80 "Ursa Minor", WO ZS66ED "grab-'n'-go"
Canon EOS 30D (Hutech), Meade DSI, Philips ToUcam Pro
North Texas Clear Sky Chart
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7006
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Quote:
Well, Jerry - what did you find out? Are you still in one piece after the test-ride??
I'm beginning to think maybe I should look at renting a truck instead...:p
Dave W.
Mr. Dave: This is Mrs. Jerry. Mr. Jerry's arms will be out of the cast in a month or so and can type a reply then. Until then, he said tell you to "get a torsion suspension" whatever that means.
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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wrather1
AstroBear
Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 3037
Loc: Dallas, Texas
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--------------------
"Don't worry about what telescope you own, or its quality. Just get out under the night sky, and enjoy God's wondrous universe." - T. M. Back
Meade RCX400-12 on JMI trolley "Ursa Major"
TMB 130SS on EQ6 PRO "Ursus Polaris"
Orion ED80 "Ursa Minor", WO ZS66ED "grab-'n'-go"
Canon EOS 30D (Hutech), Meade DSI, Philips ToUcam Pro
North Texas Clear Sky Chart
|
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