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Anonymous
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No no. I think that is accurate actually. The ownership of a telescope, obviously, strongly influnences what people will say.
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craig_oz_land
sage
Reged: 01/21/04
Posts: 343
Loc: Sydney, Australia
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Quote:
Hi Craig;
Yes, I considered those Kowas, but they have the same narrow FOV as the 45° Miyauchi's.
I still think the 77mm Owlet's have everything I'm looking for. What I need is to find a Japanese Miyauchi dealer that will ship to Canada! 
Gary
70 degrees is not bad. I dont see that as narrow.
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Takahashi FS-102
Fujinon FMT-SX2 7x50
Takahashi Astronomer 22x60
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lighttrap
Reged: 02/06/04
Posts: 3833
Loc: cloudy, foggy, humid NC, US
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Quote:
Gary, probably the aperture cutoff for binos vs. telescope is more like around 80mm than 100mm.
Your survey could go a step further with questions like, "Of the people who have telescopes, [blank]", then I think you could draw a better conclusion from responses. For instance, I don't have a 'scope AND having binos with 1 degree FOV is fine (and even desired at times).
I agree with the idea that *most* folks would start favoring a scope once one gets over 80mm. Keep in mind that it's only relatively recently that binoculars larger than that have really been available to most folks. The idea of semi-affordable or even downright inexpensive 100mm binos is really quite new in terms of the astro marketplace. So far, though, the quality of the really inexpensive 80,90 & 100mm binos simply can't compete with that of similarly priced scopes.
But that brings up a second point about the relative merits of binoculars relative to scopes as a function of cost. Let's face it, even with the advent of relatively affordable 100mm binoculars, scopes are still lots cheaper. I can't get away from the notion that I'd rather buy a 150mm scope capable of 3 degrees for $300 over a 100mm binocular capable of much less than that for $1200 or more. Then, there's the whole issue of portability and setup time. The scopes handily win that as soon as one starts needing a really robust binocular mount. What's more, they're more comfortable to use than straight through binoculars, unless those straight through binoculars are mounted on a suitably robust multi-motional mount with articulations in several degrees. I'm getting a little far afield of FOV, but all these things play a factor in deciding whether to get a scope or a large set of binoculars. The FOV question then just seals the deal in favor of scopes over about 80mm (or so).
Interestingly, THE very best astro binos I've ever had the pleasure to look through were only 71mm, and had a very narrow FOV. But those are such rare specialty items that they're pretty obscure, and surely don't account for enough of the marketshare to even be representative.
Keep in mind that I'm not at all down on binoculars as an astro tool. I favor them. But I think it's important to approach them from a systems perspective, and not get too caught up in any one aspect of them, whether it's FOV, or exit pupil, or magnification or whatever.
Mike Swaim
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18" Starsplitter II f/4.5
8" Hardin Dob f/6
C5 workhorse mini SCT f/10 or f/6.3
70mm TV Ranger dual purpose birding/astro
77mm Leica Televid APO
16x70 Fujinons on UA Deluxe Mt.
12x50 Nikon SE
8x30 Nikon E2s
and many others
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10443
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Unlike what I preaume to be the majority , who use binoculars to"supplement" a telescope ( for astronomy ), which of course makes sense , I rather use a telescope to "supplement" binoculars.
And I only do THAT because finding a pair of binoculars which provide over 25x magnification , with a reasonable field of view ,useable exit -pupil , good optics and perfect collimation is either too expensive or impractical.
Regards , Kenny.
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If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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Garfield
sage
Reged: 02/02/04
Posts: 210
Loc: South-Western ON Canada
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Quote:
The FOV question then just seals the deal in favor of scopes over about 80mm (or so).
Mike Swaim
Exactly! Of course binoculars have other positive attributes (convenient, small, light weight, fast cool down) but to me the main advantages are low-power wide FOV and comfortable two-eyed viewing. I get comfortable two-eyed views from my reflector and binoviewer, but the one thing I cannot get is a wide FOV.
Perhaps my original question should have been, "If you already have a telescope w/binoviewer, what is your favourite size of binocular?" I surmize that something in the 15x70 range would be the answer.
Craig:
Sorry for not being explicit: My question pertains to TRUE FOV not apparent FOV. All of the 45°-style binos have TFOV's 3° or less which is unacceptable to me. For the record, I also insist on wide AFOV - preferrably in the 65° range.
Gary
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AT66ED
Pentax Papilio 6.5x21 ●
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Well said Mike. I could hardly agree with you more. It really is a tough issue when you look at cost vs. performance. I myself have flip-flopped often on the decision of getting Oberwerk's BT-100 (with the appropriate mounting) OR using that money to purchase a sweet telescope. I am such a diehard bino user (so far)...and my money account painfully reminds me of that fact.
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12783
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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NW,
As I mentioned before, we are not far away. Very soon school is out and my kids will go spend the summer with mom. I invite you to come on down for a night and relish the views thru the BT100s.
I already have about 5 pair of eyepieces. But, I bet if we talked, between us we could double up a few more. Plenty to compare the views to.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I would love to do that Ed! This summer will be extra busy for me, but with planning, I could definitely secure a weekend night that's good for both of us. I'll send a private message with my contact information.
Thanks for invitation.
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craig_oz_land
sage
Reged: 01/21/04
Posts: 343
Loc: Sydney, Australia
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Gary,
Aren't AFOV and magnification the only things one has to consider ideally in a "fixed" eyepiece binocular in terms of image scale?
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Takahashi FS-102
Fujinon FMT-SX2 7x50
Takahashi Astronomer 22x60
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Garfield
sage
Reged: 02/02/04
Posts: 210
Loc: South-Western ON Canada
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Quote:
Aren't AFOV and magnification the only things one has to consider ideally in a "fixed" eyepiece binocular in terms of image scale?
Hi Craig;
Although a wide AFOV is certainly one of the keys to "esthetically pleasing" views, the TFOV is critical to being able to take in extended objects.
For example, even if I use the widest AFOV 1.25" eyepieces in the Oberwerk BT100, the TFOV is only 2.63° which is not wide enough to take in the Andromeda Galaxy which spans over 3°.
If you play with the math (AFOV=TFOV*MAG), and keep in mind the widest AFOV of most binoculars are in the 66° range, you will quickly discover the limitations of large aperture binoculars for viewing extended objects...which was the reason for my initial post.
Gary
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AT66ED
Pentax Papilio 6.5x21 ●
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