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Mark9473
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 2781
Loc: 51°N 4°E
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 new [Re: Mark9473]
      #1246806 - 11/11/06 03:21 PM

BTW I really appreciated the rest of your post too, Bill!

--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici


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BillC
on a new path
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Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2129
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 new [Re: Mark9473]
      #1246813 - 11/11/06 03:26 PM

Oh, yes, There's more! But, you really shouldn't encourage people with sick minds; it thwarts their interest in changing!

Have a great day,

Bill


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davaid
journeyman


Reged: 11/09/06
Posts: 9
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 new [Re: BillC]
      #1246830 - 11/11/06 03:36 PM

Thanks for all responses, I went today and took a look at the Nikon 8-24X25 Zoom binocular that costs around $148; and to be frank and honest with you I would not pay $20 for it ??!!

NO OFFENSE NIKON; zoom is *Gosh, dang dibbity dag nabbit* and its impossible that it can be a real 24X magnification, as when I was veiwing an object at 8X then started to approach the full zoom the image gets zoomed very little where it should tribled?!!, even my Sony Cybershot 3X camera can zoom better..... The image gets darker and there wasn't not enough illumnation to significently light objects; I also tried the 12X50 Nikon and its alot better but it doesn't differ a lot from the current Zenith Binocular (Don't know if its a branded binocular, do you?) I have.

So I think I will go with a regular 14X50 or something binos.

Thanks for all the input, I think I will be better getting a telescope to see the dust over the building that its 5 miles away as I saw a storm of dust just few yards when I used the Nikin, lol.

Thanks again any suggestion of a quality 14X50 binos would be welcomed.


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Mark9473
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Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 2781
Loc: 51°N 4°E
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 new [Re: davaid]
      #1246854 - 11/11/06 03:51 PM

Good move, Davaid, hands-on experience is the best teacher. Now I think you will agree with the arguments in this thread, often repeated already, that zoom binoculars are a waste of money.

My first pair of binoculars were a Zenith 12x50 back in 1977. I haven't come across this brand in recent years. How old is yours?

A 14x50 may be hard to find, in fact I've never seen one, but 16x50 you'll find.

--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici


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Rich N
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Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5351
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 new [Re: davaid]
      #1246855 - 11/11/06 03:51 PM

I don't know of any 14x50 binoculars. There are a bunch of 15x70 binoculars. But, unless you are going to use a 15x mounted, you would IMHO, be better off getting a 10x, 11x or 12x model.

Another good reason to try before you buy, the particular binocular you are buying may, or may not, be aligned. One tube may be point to a differnet spot than the other tube. This can be a real headache.

Good luck,
Rich


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KennyJ

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Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10446
Loc: Lancashire UK
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 new [Re: Rich N]
      #1246947 - 11/11/06 05:25 PM

Davaid ,

I'm relieved you've actually SEEN FOR YOURSELF the kind of things many people here have been trying to tell you over the past couple of days !

Over the years , there have been a wider range of binocularspecifications with regard to combinations of magnification x objective lens diameter than most people may realise , but 14 x 50 is not one I've ever come across .

Even if I had , unless it were an expensive image stabilised model , I don't think I would be at all interested in one anyway .

If your intention is to HAND HOLD binoculars , my advice is do NOT get over excited about HIGHER MAGNIFICATION , which , after more than 40 years of using binoculars , I think is probably the most COMMONLY OVERATED feature of any feature binoculars have .

For out and out ASTRONOMY , using LARGE binoculars ALWAYS MOUNTED , then higher magnification IS a very important factor , but even then , only within reason and to a point , that point USUALLY being whereby the exit - pupil remains at least 3mm , in MOST cases , at least 4mm , and in SOME cases , up to 7mm .

There ARE exceptions to this rule , but for binoculars which are intended for ALL ROUND USE , chiefly HAND - HELD , I would stick to a MAXIMUM of 10x magnification and a MINIMUM exit - pupil of 4mm .

I'm trusting you fully understand what EXIT - PUPIL means .

So , for ALL - ROUND , HAND - HELD use , wihtout image stabilisation , a few basic guidelines :

7 x 35 = good
7 x 42 = good
7 x 50 = good
8 x 40 = good
8 x 42 = good
8 x 50 = good
8.5 x 42 = good
10 x 42 = good
10 x 50 = good
12 x 50 = marginal
12 x 40 = not so good
15 x 50 = considerable WORSE than 12 x 40

ANYTHING ABOVE 15x magnification is too HIGH for hand - held use .

If you want to view objects MILES away in the daytime , and STILL see some kind of DETAIL , whatever you use needs to be MOUNTED STEADILY .

In my humble opinion , you are more likely to find a SPOTTING SCOPE better suited for that kind of viewing than any kind of binoculars .

There is no " one fix all " tool , the likes of which , on paper at least , a ZOOM BINOCULAR may appear to be .

Something like 7x , 8x or 10x 40mm or 50mm binoculars COMBINED with a MOUNTED , larger spotting scope of around 80mm , for magnifications up to 60x , is what I've found to be a very satisfying combination for all kinds of terrestrial observations .

Good luck ,

Kenny

--------------------
If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton





Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera


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camvan
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 05/02/05
Posts: 2086
Loc: British Columbia
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 new [Re: KennyJ]
      #1246978 - 11/11/06 05:42 PM

hey davaid, I'm wondering how much you're willing to spend on your binoculars you want to buy? I can't recall seeing any price...but what is the most you're willing or can spend on these?

--------------------
Cameron
"Aperture can only be replaced by even more aperture. Dark transparent skies cannot be replaced by anything else." - Stathis Kafalis


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ChrisR
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/11/05
Posts: 518
Loc: Washington
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 new [Re: camvan]
      #1247592 - 11/12/06 01:33 AM

This Thread is clear

Peace,
Chris

--------------------
Journeyman Optical Technician
Amateur Astronomer.
All around good guy
Orion, StarMax 127
Canon, 12x36 IS
Minolta, 8x25 WR
Halco, 7x50
Nippon Kogaku, Micron 7x35


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Jim L
journeyman


Reged: 10/17/07
Posts: 7
Loc: Missouri
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 new [Re: Mark9473]
      #2368251 - 05/03/08 03:26 AM

I purchsed Sakura 10-220x100 and all I see is double vision,
what a waste of money plus 26.00 to ship back and he refused shippment. Should have researched or read this post sooner. ...jim


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dOP
journeyman


Reged: 12/07/07
Posts: 65
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 new [Re: davaid]
      #2368472 - 05/03/08 09:22 AM


5 miles away... Just go ahead find a closer "neighbour"!! It would be a lot easier


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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer
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Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 1847
Loc: Morganton, GA, USA
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 new [Re: dOP]
      #2368680 - 05/03/08 11:14 AM

So...... these binoculars are reviewed as: "Sakura binoculars are known for being one of the best binoculars exceptionally designed...". Hard to blame someone for thinking that they won't be some of the worst binoculars ever put on the market. It's not uncommon to read extraordinary claims for quality or performance from absolutely *BLEEP* products, and the idea that a description might have to be at least credible is often of no concern.

I think though that one can safely say these are stunning binoculars - useful for stunning attackers at night, or perhaps that they just leave one stunned that one wasted money on them.

Oops, I shouldn't have said that.... I can see it coming: "... and an experienced binocular enthusiast on the respected Cloudy Nights forum had this to say about these binoculars: "these are stunning binoculars..."

--------------------


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dOP
journeyman


Reged: 12/07/07
Posts: 65
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 new [Re: davaid]
      #2368766 - 05/03/08 11:59 AM

Okay,

My turn has come, not sure if I can clarify this a bit for you since a lot of very knowledgeable people (way more than me) also tried and succeeded only in part...

You WILL NOT IDENTIFY ANYONE with a 14 power bino at 5 miles, let alone "see the dust"... Or with a 20X... Or with a 30X...

Let's see:

An amplification by 10 (10x), means that the object appears to you as it would (naked eye) 10 times closer. Let's say that in order to identify a person you need to see that person at most at 0.125 miles (200m) away - just a wild guess to give you an example. Now you can easily see what kind of amplification (POWER) you need to identify a person at those 5 miles:

5.0 / 0.125 = 40 X

What kind of equipment can provide you that?

You need an aperture of at least 80mm to get a reasonable exit pupil, so:

a) A quality binoscope, "well" collimated.
b) A spotting scope.
c) A telescope.
d) A Fujinon 40x150

Hope this helps.
Diogo.

Edited by dOP (05/03/08 02:00 PM)


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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate


Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 3472
Loc: NJ USA
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 new [Re: dOP]
      #2369763 - 05/03/08 10:17 PM

Quote:

Objective Tube Diameter(mm): 100
Objective Glass Diameter(mm): 80




NEW Sakura 20-360X180 Zoom Binoculars ; 100mm Tube(80mm glass) giant Binoculars

--------------------
Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom


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BillC
on a new path
*****

Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2129
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 new [Re: Joe Ogiba]
      #2369888 - 05/03/08 11:28 PM

P. T. Barnum did not say "There's one born every minute." But someone did. He was, of course, correct.

Sadly, it wouldn't be so if it were not so commonplace for unscrupulous people to take advantage of kind hearted neighbors.

Cheers,

Bill

--------------------
William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .


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rushintuit
sage


Reged: 04/01/06
Posts: 267
Loc: Farpoint Observatory
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 new [Re: Joe Ogiba]
      #2369922 - 05/03/08 11:44 PM

"100mm Tube(80mm glass) giant Binoculars"

At least we know what happened to the nitrogen.

--------------------
/// Stellarvue SV102ED /// Nikon 12x50 /// Fujinon 16x70 /// SkyTools 2 /// The Desktop Universe All Sky CCD Mosaic In Monochrome Mode ///


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mostlyd
newbie


Reged: 06/01/08
Posts: 4
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 new [Re: rushintuit]
      #2433111 - 06/01/08 11:28 AM

Hello everyone.
I need some clarifications for a few problems concerning this family of binoculars... the super zoom ones. I got my hands on a no-name pair of 10-80x70. From what I read here some time ago i was expecting to see quite literally nothing at the extreme end of the zoom range. What I did see was however quite acceptable by a reasonable standard. Of course there is no way you can hold them steady, you need to use support. And it is also true you need quite good lighting conditions to see well. But other than that, the experience was positive. The image was not "big as a dime", and not fuzzy/dusty/unclear at all. One disadvantage of looking through them for more than 15 minutes is the eye fatigue due to the adjustments one makes to focus the image.

I am indeed puzzled by the difference between the expectations I had from reading here some things which made (and still do!) perfect sense, and the hands on experience with the binoculars, which was (by my standards) good.

What could be the explanation? Are my standards too low? The technical specifications written on the piece have nothing to do with what it actually delivers (it does not magnify 80 times but by much less)? Is there a way to accurately evaluate the magnification capabilities of the binoculars?

Please tell me I'm crazy, and I have a 20x70 piece (or something along those lines) labeled as 10-80x70 for marketing reasons, because otherwise I am really tempted to see what the 20-180x100 is all about.


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EdZModerator
Professor EdZ
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Posts: 12789
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 new [Re: mostlyd]
      #2433158 - 06/01/08 12:10 PM

Quote:

One disadvantage of looking through them for more than 15 minutes is the eye fatigue due to the adjustments one makes to focus the image.





eye fatigue is not caused by adjustment one makes to focus. If that were the case all user of binoviewers and binocular telescopes would be reporting eye fatigue all the time. Eye fatigue is caused by images that are not aligned. So there would be some mis-colllimation in this pair.

There are ways to test magnification, but I think none of them can be measured precissely enough for the average user to measure up around 70x-80x. However, if you care to try, they refer to the Bbest Of thread at the top of this forum and follow the links to measuring and testing aspects of binoculars.

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21


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KennyJ

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Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10446
Loc: Lancashire UK
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 new [Re: mostlyd]
      #2433183 - 06/01/08 12:31 PM

Hello Mostly ,

Welcome to the forum.

I can't help but wonder what the letter " d " stands for after your name ! :-)

I am intrigued by a couple of things here .

One is that it has been a long time since I saw a NEW binocular without any name at all on it , and the other is that I've never seen a 10-80 x 70 zoom binocular either !

Could you post a photo of this model ?

One quick way of checking if the magnification is anything like a true 80x -- and of whether or not the optics are as good as you describe , is if at all possible , to try reading a vehicle license plate from a distance of about one and a half miles .

I've found , in cool clear conditions , with the sun behind me , I can just about do that with around 80x magnification on a 76mm scope .

Regards
Kenny

--------------------
If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton





Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera


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mostlyd
newbie


Reged: 06/01/08
Posts: 4
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 new [Re: KennyJ]
      #2433298 - 06/01/08 01:44 PM

Kenny, this one has only this written on it:
"traveler 10-80x70
56m(10x)1000m"

I imagine "traveler" is not the firm but some kind of marketing label. I'll ask the person that gave it to me if there is a box with the name of the producer, or something like that.

A Google search for 10-80x70 took me to some Bresser binoculars like this piece. My piece looks something like that but it is obviously not the same thing. I cannot make a picture right now, maybe I'll get my hands on a camera sometimes soon.

About the license plates: I could read some with no problems at a distance of about 1km (roughly - I'm not that good with distances). At a significantly greater distance (I estimate mabe 2,5 km) I can see the plate but absolutely nothing on it. My guess is that I could read the thing at maybe 1,5 km. So 1,5 miles... no. Hope I did not make a mess of appreciating distances.

Edz, thanks for clearing that up about the eye fatigue. I looked through some of the links in that thread and it seems indeed difficult for me to accurately evaluate the magnification power of this thing.

I've given some thought to this situation and maybe my expectations are really too low. I never used a "good" pair of binoculars, and that's why I cannot compare. It just seems to me that, if you want to see something that is not far far away (let's say it is around 500m to 1km away) but you want to see it in as much detail as possible (which means big magnification is important), this pair I've got is... acceptable.


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KennyJ

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Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10446
Loc: Lancashire UK
Re: Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72 [Re: mostlyd]
      #2433331 - 06/01/08 02:04 PM

Well , if you can read a vehicle license from even just one kilometre away , that is not bad at all , but gives little indication of the actual magnification .

I can resolve those details at around 20x from that distance through my scope .

With a field of view of only 56 metres at 1000 metres , I feel sure that if you were to look through a regular , even average quality 10 x 42 binocular , you would suddenly realise that what you are used to is like looking through a straw by comparison !

No matter how well this particular model may work for you , it would DEFINITELY be a mistake to expect 72mm aperture , or possibly even less - as these tend to be , to handle 180x magnification , at this level of optical quality .

Even the very best , multi - thousand dollar MONOSCOPIC gear struggles with that kind of aperture / magnification ratio for daytime viewing at any great distance .

Regards
Kenny

--------------------
If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton





Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera


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