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brocknroller
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Optolyth Royal 15x63 B/GA
      #1250861 - 11/13/06 11:42 PM

Has anyone tried this bin? Awhile back, an online dealer had a used sample, not sure if was Deutsche Optik. I wrote them about it, and the salesperson replied that the Royals were better than the Zeiss 15x60 B/GAs but lighter. That's a BIG claim, particularly for a high power roof! This comparison is implied, though not explicitly stated, on the Deutsche Optik ad. The Royals use Abbe-Konig prisms like Zeiss roofs.

The dual focusers are a nice feature since with my large hands, I'd be holding these by the barrels and probably couldn't reach the front focuser. Then again, I can barely hold 10x steady, so I would probably have to mount these anyway.

Here's the ad:
http://www.deutscheoptik.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=451&osCsid=cfc7040e4ec6dc79ca13b7620b0e4de1

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"“Maybe Christmas,” he thought, “doesn’t come from a store. Maybe Christmas… perhaps… means a little bit more.”


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Mark9473
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Re: Optolyth Royal 15x63 B/GA new [Re: brocknroller]
      #1251586 - 11/14/06 02:48 PM

Brock, I've had an interest in these binoculars for a long time; mainly because of the Abbe-König prisms.

Then I got to handle a pair in an optics shop, and as you can read here I found them somewhat lacking in sharpness and contrast. This was just one sample, and it was a second-hand, but it didn't convince me to take it home.

I'd be very interested in your impressions if you ever get a pair in your hands.

--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici


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KennyJ

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Re: Optolyth Royal 15x63 B/GA new [Re: Mark9473]
      #1251621 - 11/14/06 03:08 PM

Thanks for reminding me of THAT thread Mark !

Brock ,

I KNEW someone here had tried a Optolyth Royal 15 x 63 , but couldn't remember WHO !

Having just re - read that entire THREAD , it seems a shame that the Optolyth Royal barely got a mention after the first response , as everyone seemed so keen to discuss the various pros and cons of all the other great glasses mentioned in the various subsequent posts .

I recall reading SOMEWHERE or other , that the ACTUAL TRUE field of view of the Optolyth Royal 15 x 63 is only 3.7 degrees , and if I recall correctly , eye relief is also very tight .

Or was that on the Orion 15 x 63 , I wonder ?

Back to that drawing board , Brock ?

Regards , Kenny

--------------------
If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton





Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera


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mooreorless
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Re: Optolyth Royal 15x63 B/GA new [Re: Mark9473]
      #1251938 - 11/14/06 06:09 PM

Thanks Mark for posting this link to that thread,very interesting reading,even if I had read it before :-).I am still not surprised on your finding of the Optolyth Royal 15x63.
Steve

--------------------
Regards,Steve M

"the eights are better" Jim Carmichel of Outdoor Life magazine


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Mark9473
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Re: Optolyth Royal 15x63 B/GA new [Re: mooreorless]
      #1253254 - 11/15/06 04:34 PM

Steve, I didn't follow you up on this in the previous thread, but I'm going to this time:
would you care to explain what you know about or have experienced with the Optolyth?

--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici


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mooreorless
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Re: Optolyth Royal 15x63 B/GA new [Re: Mark9473]
      #1253454 - 11/15/06 06:23 PM

Hi Mark,Sorry I should of said.I don't have any experience with the 15x63.I had an Optolyth 7x50 Alpin binocular and I didn't think it was as sharp as it should of been. I traded it to John Cota for a Nikon 10x35E that he had and liked the Nikon a lot more.The 7x50 Optolyth had a very long eye relief in fact I could keep my glasses on without rolling down the eyecups.The eyecups were very stiff and hard to roll down when I tried.In the Outdoor Life 2000 gear test they tested a Optolyth 10x45 Royal BGA and some of the other binoculars tested where Zeiss 15x60 B/GA,Steiner 8x56 Nighthunter,Bausch&Lomb 12x50 Elite[the porro with the offset going verticle instead of horizontal,Pentax 16x60 PCF V,and the Editor's Choice of the Swarovski 8.5x42 EL [the older slow focus model or original].Testing these they do use 1951 USAF resolving charts and also use and aux. 3X scope for magnified resolution.They do check the binoculars out pretty good.

The binoculars could score from 1 the lowest to 5 the highest and on some they would list the measured arc seconds.The Swarovski got a 5 with 3.3 arc seconds,Bausch&Lomb 12x50 a 5,the Zeiss 15x60 B/GA a 5.The next rung down was the Pentax 16x60 PCF V with a 4,the Optolyth 10x45 Royal with a 4 and the last out of this bunch was the Steiner 8x56 Nighthunter with a 3.5.

In this same article they test some spotting scopes.Bausch&Lomb Elite 20-60x80mm ED,Nikon Fieldscope III ED 20x45x60mm,Pentax PF-80 with 36x eyepiece all these rated a 5 and they also tested a Optolyth 30x80mm B/GA spotter and it rated 4.5 for resolution.They did pick the Nikon Fieldscope III ED as their Editor's Choice.


I guess I really don't have real experience with the Optolyth Royal 15x63 B/GA and am just using some of what I have read about Optolyth and just one of their binoculars and I think this review shows that the Optolyth10x45 Royal was down some as far as resolution compared to some of the other top brands.Maybe it is not fair of me to think this way after owning just one Optolyth binocular.Optolyth is not very well known in the U.S. and it is hard to find any information and reviews.I will say the 7x50 Optolyth I had was very light wt. and I wish I could test it out more now.:-)edit: I noticed BVD has a mult-review of full size 7x-8x binoculars and one of them is an Optolyth 7x42 Alpin and they have the optical rating for this binocular just below the Nikon 7x35E.The top Model is the B&L 8x42 Elite and just below it is the B&L 8x36 Custom [I have this and it is very sharp}.
Steve

--------------------
Regards,Steve M

"the eights are better" Jim Carmichel of Outdoor Life magazine

Edited by mooreorless (11/15/06 06:45 PM)


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brocknroller
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Re: Optolyth Royal 15x63 B/GA new [Re: mooreorless]
      #1254084 - 11/16/06 01:02 AM

Mark,

Thanks for that link about the Royal. I also enjoyed your 10x42 roof comparisons, I guess there wasn't a 10x42 LX or LX L on hand to compare to the other top guns?

I owned a 10x42 LX briefly (sent it back, bad sample) and now own a 10x42 LX L. I also used Walter Locke's 10x42 LX, and his 8x42 LX, and I owned two sample 8x32 LXs.

I've tried Steve Moore's 10x42 SE several times (I have it now, in fact), and own a 8x32 SE and have had two sample 12x50 SEs. I also tried Walter's 8x30 E2 and had two sample 10x35 E2s of my own.

So I have a lot of experience with high quality Nikon porros and roofs but virtually none with the other top gun brands unless you count my Carl ZEISS Jena 8x50 Octarem (I don't think they'd let me in the Zeiss club with a DDR porro :-).

It doesn't surprise me that few people responded to this thread since Optolyth keeps a very low profile, particularly in the US/North America where Deutsche Optik is the exclusive distributor.

I've been corresponding with Justus Bauschinger, president of Deutsche Optik (quite a character!), who bought the business from Mike Rivkin two years ago. Around the same time, Optolyth went bankrupt and was bought by Justus's friend, Berndt Zingrebe, the owner of Sill Optics, who is slowly resurecting the brand.

Berndt brought back the original style Alpin bins. The new/old style Alpins are identical, optically and mechanically, to the originals, whereas the NGs where "heavier and chunky". Birders didn't seem to like them as much as the older style, according to Justus.

Now if he could only convince Zeiss to resurrect their old top porro line! :-)

In their latest incarnation, the Royal line contains a 8x56, 10x56, 9x63 and 15x63, and are Optolyth’s first roof-prism bins. The line formerly included a 8x45 and 10x45. He didn't say why those configurations were dropped, but it would seem from the existing configurations, that the Royals are aimed primarily at the hunting market.

There is also a newer line of roofs, the ViaNova, which are heavier and have more modern looking, smooth armor.

As far as why I was interested in the Optolyth Royals, I'm quite happy with my 12x50 SE for stargazing, but not as happy with it for terrestrial use since I can't hold it as steady horizontally as I can vertically.

So I figured if I'm going to use a mount anyway, why not have MORE power, but I would want a bin of equal optical quality. The Zeiss 15x60 B/GAs are hard to come by, and when they do show up, they usually cost as much as a high mileage used car. With the claims about the Optolyth being competitive with similar top models, and having A/K prisms, and a robust roof design, they seemed worthy of a look-see.

However, since "sharpness and contrast" are at the top of my revised Top Five Bin Features, they don't sound appealing, particularly at that price. You may have had a bad sample, from my experience with the LX line, I know that bad samples exist at the top. Given that the Royals you had probably did not have the latest advances in coating technology like the top gun roofs, it wouldn't surprise me if your experience was typical.

Was the box or Royal labeled as being phase-coated? That would certainly make a difference in sharpness and contrast. Or course, even if they were, the design is relatively "old" compared to the latest offerings by Zeiss, Leica, and Swaro, so the optics may not have the advanced multicoatings.

You never mentioned how much CA the Royals showed on that white rain pipe, but having seen the difference in CA between the 8x32 LX and 10x42 LX, I would imagine that the CA would be porportionally greater with the larger aperture and higher power.

--------------------
The Grinch
Troublemaker Extraordinaire

#########################################

"“Maybe Christmas,” he thought, “doesn’t come from a store. Maybe Christmas… perhaps… means a little bit more.”


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Mark9473
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Re: Optolyth Royal 15x63 B/GA new [Re: mooreorless]
      #1254305 - 11/16/06 09:45 AM

Steve, thanks for posting that background information. Good to know. For sure the Alpin are a whole different animal than the Royal.

I think any test comparing directly to the top binoculars costing 2-3 times as much runs a risk of being a bit unfair. Certainly this affetced me when I looked through those 15x63 in the store. Also there I didn't much like the store's rebranded Japanese roofs, but now a year later I have actually bought the original from Vixen (my 8x42) and like it very much - I have to add there was a cost differential too.

Anyway, I'm still very interested in a 15x60 but just haven't found the right one yet. Came close to buying the Docter Nobilem porro once, but didn't (couldn't find a store to actually see it).

--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici


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Mark9473
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Re: Optolyth Royal 15x63 B/GA new [Re: brocknroller]
      #1254314 - 11/16/06 09:53 AM

Brock, just to clarify, I never owned any Optolyths. Just had them in my hands for about three minutes - maybe four. Can't remember with certainty if I checked the labelling with regard to phase coating - just assumed they were.

The store indeed doesn't carry Nikons. Nikon prices in this part of the world, at least for the LX(L) are, from what I can see online, virtually as high as those of the top European brands. Can't see them getting much of a following under those circumstances.

--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici


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brocknroller
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Re: Optolyth Royal 15x63 B/GA new [Re: Mark9473]
      #1254506 - 11/16/06 12:08 PM

Mark,

Yes, I read that you were doing a backyard test outside the store, but the fact that you mentioned the high contrast rain pipe made me think you were going to use it to compare CA control. That's the first spot I would have looked at. Too much CA... NEXT! :-)

Some people are not very sensitive to CA, but with a 15x63 roof, I would think that unless light levels were very low, the CA would be obvious on that rain pipe, but it sounds like you didn't use them very long. I don't blame you, with the top gun 10x42s waiting, I wouldn't waste much time on a 15x63 roof either!

I pay more attention to CA with roofs than I do with porros since most porros I've owned, from cheap to top of the line, have had a tolerable amount of CA. For porros, CA doesn't seem bothersome to me until I get to 12x+. Even my 12x SE shows CA in high contrast situations, such as watching hawks against a gray sky.

I can not only see CA in all non-ED bins (and even at the edges of ED bins), but I can also tell fairly accurately w/out a color chart how true to life the color balance is. A blessing and a curse!

Since using the LX series, Contrast has been added to my Top Five Bin Features.

I'm not sure if the original Optolyths were designed with p-coatings or if they were added later.

The original 10x50 Alpins seem to be well regarded. Here's a favorable review by Dana Bunner:
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bbowman/birds/se_mich/bin_10x.txt

I also know someone who has high end bins, but has never sold his Optolyth Alpin 10x50, because of its on-axis and off-axis sharpness.

The 10x50 Alpins have a somewhat narrowish FOV, only the 8x30, 10x40, and 12x50 models are close to my minimum 60* AFOV preference.

If the eyecup height on the 7.5x model is a fair measure of ER, they may have better ER than the Swaro Habicht porros. But alas, I doubt if they would be as sharp. There are always trade-offs. It's all about what you can live with, what you can't, and for some of us, what we can afford to live with.

http://www.deutscheoptik.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=445&osCsid=36d6037e934e12537b2706526f7509ac

--------------------
The Grinch
Troublemaker Extraordinaire

#########################################

"“Maybe Christmas,” he thought, “doesn’t come from a store. Maybe Christmas… perhaps… means a little bit more.”


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Mark9473
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Re: Optolyth Royal 15x63 B/GA new [Re: brocknroller]
      #1254838 - 11/16/06 03:48 PM

Brock, I surely am not very sensitive to chromatic aberration in binoculars. If you are, I sense a Zeiss FL in your future BTW the new 8x56 is said to have very good edge sharpness. I'm waiting for confirmation...

--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici


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KennyJ

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Re: Optolyth Royal 15x63 B/GA new [Re: Mark9473]
      #1255073 - 11/16/06 05:55 PM

Mark ,

In spite of what I've read and said about this model , there IS something about it which I've found attractive since first setting eyes upon one ( in a photo , of course ) , and that " something " is almost certainly because it LOOKS so much like a slightly larger version of the already ungamely , long and rather eccentric looking Zeiss 8 x 56 BGAT !

I've noticed that the 15 x 63 Royal normally retails for just above 1000 Euros , but I've found them advertised for considerably less at a couple of retailers , including the following :

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.deputter.com/tweedehands.php%3Fla%3Dfr&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=8&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DOptolyth%2BRoyal%2B15%2Bx%2B63%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

Regards , Kenny

--------------------
If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton





Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera


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Mark9473
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Re: Optolyth Royal 15x63 B/GA new [Re: KennyJ]
      #1256448 - 11/17/06 02:30 PM

Thanks Kenny! Quite surprising you turn up this link, because this is the store I visited and linked to somewhere higher up in this thread, and that is the very pair of second-hand 15x63s I handled and reported on!

Another local astronomy store has the Optolyth Royal 9x63 new for 867 euro's, so possibly he could get the 15x63 for not much more - though I expect it to be somewhat more expensive because it has a more elaborate eye-piece (an extra element to flatten the field if I recall correctly).

--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici


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