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tomallinder
super member
Reged: 02/08/06
Posts: 181
Loc: Crumpler, NC
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Well, going to have to work on tracking for telescope. I posted the first light report for the new Meade LX200R a few nights ago.
Had a good night tonight... So set up scope.
Spent a good deal of time last couple of days looking at the DSI Pro I got many months ago. Now I have the scope to use it! The setup went well and the instructions and videos I watched seemed like it was easy enough. So, I thought I would put the DSI Pro on the scope tonight just to see what happened. Expectations were low so the hammer was no where around.
I got the scope set up, aligned. Noticed alignment was well off first star, Vega. Centered it then it went to Aldebaran and was a little bit off, but got it centered with minimal work.
Then went to Uranus and it was in the field (32mm) but near the edge. Then centered it. Decided to put in the DSI Pro. Had laptop set up on a table right next to scope.
What I got was a fuzzy, pixelated disc looking thing that was moving all over the screen. Could not keep in center and focusing seemed difficult.
OK, no worries. Slewed to M57. The USB cable connecting the DSI Pro to the laptop (a big HP with 17" screen) was a bit too short, as the scope slewed, the cable started taking up slack and started reeling in the laptop.  I had to run around the table and pick up the laptop and move it around with scope, now was running out of power cord so had to snatch that out to keep from having a complete disaster. The scope was about to conduct a tug-o'-war with the power cord with the laptop in the middle and the DSI on the other end.
Once around, M57 no where to be seen in image from the DSI. I took it off and put it to bed for the night and put the eyepiece back in. M57 was in field but well off-center.
Now, I know I have skipped some steps here but its OK, I will work with the scope on the guiding etc.
Other things I learned tonight: The new UWA 6.7 eyepiece is useless. Waste of money. Can not focus this for a boxcar full of money. The 14 mm is about as high of a mag as I can go with the 14" scope.
I have contacted Dr. Clay for a supercharging. I may do that before the year is out. He has some openings in December...
Tom
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14" Meade LX 200R
Crumpler, NC (you need a good map to find it)
36 30 27N
81 23 13W
Elevation: 2740 FT
A hammer is a tool meant to deliver blows to a target, causing it to move or deform. The most common uses are for driving nails, fitting parts, and BREAKING UP OBJECTS.
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Moggi1964
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 2515
Loc: Madison. NJ. USA
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I supercharged from new; don't regret a penny of it.
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Morris
WO Megrez 80 ED F/7
WO 8x42 binoculars
Seymor Rosin F/4.5 Astrograph in the making
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Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4339
Loc: Bosham, UK
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As you've discovered, the DSI is not a good match for a 14" SCT - you're working at an image scale of about 0.5 arc seconds/pixel and the image size is less than 5 arc minutes. The very high resolution will mean that it shows up every wobble in the mount (and, i'm afraid, with a big fork-mounted SCT there are plenty) and it needs brilliant seeing to work to its full potential.
If you do 'calibrate sensors' and 'train drives', that'll help with the GOTO performance. I'd try that before supercharging. But the only way you'll get the tracking spot on is to autoguide (my G11 can't get anywhere near tracking well enough for 0.5"/pixel, it can only just about do five times that scale unguided) and that'll probably need very good PEC training first to keep the PE small enough that the guider can keep up with it. Long-exposure imaging through a big SCT is *really* hard.
A better place to start would be to get a webcam (Celestron NexImage or similar) and try some lunar/planetary imaging. That way you're working to the strengths of your 'scope, and you're not so dependant on good tracking.
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Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire, 80ED (x2), 305mm f/5 dob, VLT
Astro-Physics 1200GTO, evolved HEQ5/pro
Coronado SM60/BF10, 3-6 Nagler zoom, 8 & 13 Ethos, 28UWAN
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7008
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Tom, don't dispair. I would say you had a better than average night. I learned early on only allow an older laptop near a telescope. After two years and many thousands, I'm just getting a few good images at 10" with LX200R. Funny thing is, I get better ones with a 14" LX200 OTA. On the Meade 6.7mm EP, it's good for collimation. Gets right on down into the star at the Focal Length of the 14".
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Jerry
LX200ACF 14", Tak FS 152 & TOA 150
AP-1200 & Mach1
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tomallinder
super member
Reged: 02/08/06
Posts: 181
Loc: Crumpler, NC
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Yes, its just sad to spend $200 on a collimation tool. I figured out magnification AFTER I ordered the eyepiece.
It appears the only way to do photography is to get the scope supercharged. I just dread loading back into the box and driving it down the mountain to shipping facility. But it certainly appears to be worth it.
Bottom line is, any camera is only as good as the scope driving it. Seeing conditions are very important too.
On a brighter note I did view Neptune last night. First time. Its always been in a tree before but I got started early last night.
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14" Meade LX 200R
Crumpler, NC (you need a good map to find it)
36 30 27N
81 23 13W
Elevation: 2740 FT
A hammer is a tool meant to deliver blows to a target, causing it to move or deform. The most common uses are for driving nails, fitting parts, and BREAKING UP OBJECTS.
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Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4339
Loc: Bosham, UK
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Quote:
It appears the only way to do photography is to get the scope supercharged.
I'm still not sure I agree with this. The only way to do photography is to guide your exposures, which itself will probably require you to get periodic error correction working - the PE on my old 8" LX200 was enough to throw off an autoguider from time to time. A typical LX200 has periodic error well in excess of 30" over a worm cycle, with your current setup (0.5"/pixel) stars are going to trail 60 pixels. A more typical 45" PE would give a 90 pixel trail. 'Supercharging' the LX200 isn't going to fix that.
A well PEC-trained LX200 can manage <15" PE, and you should be able to guide out the rest (this is where supercharging may help, if some of the residual PE is too quick to guide easily). Getting a focal reducer to get increase the image scale would help a lot too (i'd suggest Meade's f/3.3 focal reducer for the small chip of a DSI). An ideal PEC-trained, autoguided system with 10-15" of smooth PE and an image scale of 1.5"/pixel should work out alright.
Hopefully this doesn't sound too negative, but imaging at 3500mm focal length is hard even if you have a $10k mount to put the 'scope on, with LX200 forks it's even harder. Heck, I image at 388mm, almost a factor of ten shorter, with a mount with much lower PE than an out-of-the-box LX200, and that still needs autoguiding!
You can image with your 'scope, but it's a hard road. Sending it off to be supercharged isn't going to help without some of the other stuff in place.
PE and post-PEC PE figures from http://www.ccdware.com/products/pempro/examples.cfm
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Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire, 80ED (x2), 305mm f/5 dob, VLT
Astro-Physics 1200GTO, evolved HEQ5/pro
Coronado SM60/BF10, 3-6 Nagler zoom, 8 & 13 Ethos, 28UWAN
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wrather1
AstroBear
Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 3041
Loc: Dallas, Texas
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I agree with Ben whole-heartedly. The Dr. Clay Supercharge is a great way to fine tune a scope, but would not be a cure-all in this case. PEC training (can take hours) is a must, followed by guiding (either automatic or manual, for the truly adventurous. Also, you'll find that the slightest stray gust of wind can ruin an exposure. Good seeing is also essential for shooting planets. Due to the much shorter F/L, I recommend piggy-backing a small APO on the big scope and taking pictures with the APO until you get a lot of experience under your belt. Worked for me, anyway.
DW
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"Don't worry about what telescope you own, or its quality. Just get out under the night sky, and enjoy God's wondrous universe." - T. M. Back
Meade RCX400-12 on JMI trolley "Ursa Major"
TMB 130SS on EQ6 PRO "Ursus Polaris"
Orion ED80 "Ursa Minor", WO ZS66ED "grab-'n'-go"
Canon EOS 30D (Hutech), Meade DSI, Philips ToUcam Pro
North Texas Clear Sky Chart
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tomallinder
super member
Reged: 02/08/06
Posts: 181
Loc: Crumpler, NC
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Thanks so much for info! I appreciate it!
One more question: The LX200R 14 is very nose heavy. I really have to tighten up dec to keep it in position. I am a fairly big guy with big hands and I have to use a fair amount of pressure to tighten up enough so that scope nose does not go down.
Saw a c/w set that goes on back of scope.
If I have microfocuser, diagonal and an eyepiece in the scope is still slightly nose heavy, but it helps.
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14" Meade LX 200R
Crumpler, NC (you need a good map to find it)
36 30 27N
81 23 13W
Elevation: 2740 FT
A hammer is a tool meant to deliver blows to a target, causing it to move or deform. The most common uses are for driving nails, fitting parts, and BREAKING UP OBJECTS.
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Moggi1964
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 2515
Loc: Madison. NJ. USA
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Peterson counterwieght (forogtten what it is called). I saw one for sale on Amart I think.
Works a treat.
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Morris
WO Megrez 80 ED F/7
WO 8x42 binoculars
Seymor Rosin F/4.5 Astrograph in the making
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Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4339
Loc: Bosham, UK
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I always used to get my LX200 in balance, so that you could release the clutches and the OTA just remained where it was. I'm not sure that's totally necessary (as they're not in balance in their out of the box state) but it seemed to help tracking on mine.
The counterweight Morris mentioned is good, the alternative is to get a moving counterweight kit like the ADM one, which makes it easier to rebalance when you add or remove stuff from the 'scope.
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Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire, 80ED (x2), 305mm f/5 dob, VLT
Astro-Physics 1200GTO, evolved HEQ5/pro
Coronado SM60/BF10, 3-6 Nagler zoom, 8 & 13 Ethos, 28UWAN
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Aircrftr
sage
Reged: 09/29/06
Posts: 245
Loc: Claremore OK
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Tom;
I put the EZ clutch kit from peterson Engineering on my scope and it helped A LOT. This will save you from stripping the threads on the friction lock screw. It explains all about it here Pretty cheap preventative maintenance, but you also need to get the balance weights too. I made my own from my old 10" LX balance weight set. threaded a hole in the bottom of one of the weights and stuck a 3/8-20 threaded rod in it which bent with a cutting torch at a 90* angle and then put one of the heavy weights on the end of it so that now I have a heavy weight sticking from the bottom of the scope and angled back aft about 6 in. aft of the rear cell. I use it for a handle too when I move the scope around. worked out pretty well as I can also move the scope to 90* declination and the weight won't hit the middle of the fork.
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14" LX200R
Orion 102ED
Cannon 20Da
DSI PRO (for autoguiding)
All stored in my "Mt. Wilson Observatory" elev.610 ft.
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Rick Woods
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 4450
Loc: Inner Solar System
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You really do need to balance it. I have the 14" LX200GPS, just as nose heavy. In addition to the potential to strip the dec clutch threads (requiring an expensive trip back to Meade), you're putting a lot of extra stress on the motors, and your GOTO and tracking accuracy may be suffering by running it so out of balance.
Get (or make) a counterweight rail system. You need it on the top AND bottom of the OTA. I made my own for about $25, and the balance on my scope is nearly perfect now (even with an aluminum dew shield). When I do my one-star alignment with a 9mm reticle ortho eyepiece now, the star is always almost centered in the FOV at the end of the slew.
And don't give up on the 6.7mm UWA! There will be a night of perfect air quality, and then it will blow your mind. I had such a night (slightly foggy), with Saturn and a 7mm Nagler, and I'll never forget what I saw that night. Most of the time I can't use it, but once in a while...
- Rick
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- Rick
14" LX200GPS
8" Meade 826C
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Nick Cook
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/28/06
Posts: 1046
Loc: Somerset, England
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Hi,
A quick question about Pempro. I'm taming my RCX drive currently and have been using the log file from PHD (Push Here Dummy), pasting the date into excel and analysing the graph. I'm using the latest version of PHD which is compatible with the DSI. So my question is whether Pempro would work with the DSI without MaximDl or CCDsoft?
Thanks,
Nick
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Meade 14" RCX + Astro Physics 0.75 Reducer (27TVPH)
Meade 5000 ED80 APO (Guider/widefield)+ WO 0.8 Reducer
William Optics Zenithstar 66 Petzal
SBig STL11000M + AO-L + 3" Pyxis Rotator + 3" PDF Focuser 
Canon 20Da + IDAS Filter
Pulsar 9ft Dome
www.nick-cook.net
www.cavebear.co.uk
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Joseph Gillman
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 2358
Loc: Boothwyn, PA
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Dont mean to hijack the thread, but what about piggybacking a refractor on - I am trying the ST120 and ED80 from Orion - they actually weigh about the same - but if I balance in one position, the scope is very unbalanced in another direction. I can lock the Dec axis at 45 degrees lets say in Alt Az mode, balance fine there, but if I got by the zenith it will be very UNbalanced.
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Meade RCX400 30cm --
People dont like when I stick up for Meade but they're just jealous of my RCX 
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tomallinder
super member
Reged: 02/08/06
Posts: 181
Loc: Crumpler, NC
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Thanks for all the info again! I appreciate it! I have decided not to use the scope again until I get it properly weighted. I will get the EZ clutch thing and install that. Also weights whereby I can balance the scope at any time.
Also going to do the PEC thing on it too as soon as everything else is done. Hopefully the weight system won't be too hard to install.
Thanks again!
--------------------
14" Meade LX 200R
Crumpler, NC (you need a good map to find it)
36 30 27N
81 23 13W
Elevation: 2740 FT
A hammer is a tool meant to deliver blows to a target, causing it to move or deform. The most common uses are for driving nails, fitting parts, and BREAKING UP OBJECTS.
|
Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4339
Loc: Bosham, UK
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Quote:
So my question is whether Pempro would work with the DSI without MaximDl or CCDsoft?
I use PEMPro with Astro Art v4. I have the full version of AA4, but I believe the demo would work with PEMPro.
--------------------
Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire, 80ED (x2), 305mm f/5 dob, VLT
Astro-Physics 1200GTO, evolved HEQ5/pro
Coronado SM60/BF10, 3-6 Nagler zoom, 8 & 13 Ethos, 28UWAN
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