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Robert A.
sage
Reged: 01/21/05
Posts: 218
Loc: Milwaukee, WI Northern USA
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I am considering the Garretts Signature 28x110 or the Apogee RA88's. Both of them are about 600 dollars. I don't have an appropriate mount for 16-14 pounds. I could try to build one out of wood.... In my viewing habits, I have spent more time looking at open star clusters. I would like to grow as an astronomy observer. I don't use eyeglasses when I view. I live around a good amount of light pollution.
Someday I want to get the Oberwerk BT100. In fact, I am little bit paralyzed in this decision because I think I ought to wait and save. I realized this past week that I could get this newest offering from Garrett. In all, it is amazingly affordable.
Apogee is now giving a "Close Out" price on the RA88's for 560. This could be some hard decisions over there at Apogee, or signaling the approaching introduction of an updated Right Angle Giant from China, like we have some talk and a picture from Burgess.
If I save up, I could just save up for a Miyauchi, which deepens my paralysis. You guys might not know, but I have learned from this forum to have a desire to save up for the best equipment I can afford.
So, to recap, I could afford to mess around with 600 binos now, and save for later. I think I could even afford to buy a good mount like you guys have reviewed. (hopefully a planned purchase for the future BT100's.) Then I would be like our administrator, Joad. He had a fixed Giant, until he upgraded.
To the experienced on this list, which of these two binocular giants is truly the best, and would have a better resale value later? Thanks for your comments!
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Oberwerk 11x56, Nikon 12x50se, Fujinon 16x70, Stellarvue 20x85, Oberwerk 25/40 45degree 100mm
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Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2546
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Robert,
I think of the BT 100 as twin 100mm F6 telescopes with OTA weight of over 26 lbs. Add the weight of the fork mount and the tripod and it's over 50 lbs....no longer a grab- and- go arrangement but you can have it with the mount and tripod for about $1800 plus addtional investment for EPs later.
A 16 lb 28X110 will require an extra heavy duty fluid head such as the Bogen 516 head. Price for the head alone is over $500:
http://www.adorama.com/BG516.html?searchinfo=Bogen%20516%20head&item_no=2
I recently upgraded my Bogen 3246 tripod with a 501 head to a 516 head. The tripod legs are $230. This combo will hold OTAs up to 22 lbs. Total weight with leg and fluid head is 15 lbs. I can carry the 15 lb tripod/head combo in one hand and a 16 lb bino in another hand and go out the door in on trip. For me that's a quicker set up than a BT 100 but you won't have angled EPs or the ability to chagne magnification....
Erik D
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Joad
Wordsmith
Reged: 03/22/05
Posts: 11916
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Tough choice here, Robert. From what I read here, the Miyauchi Saturn series are really very nice, but with mount and tripod I assume that would come in at over $3000, so it depends how long you'd need to wait to save up and whether you'd want to spend that much even when you have it.
The BT100 with interchangeable eps is the best bang for the buck, I think, if you want proven 45° oculars. But, they are very heavy indeed, no doubt about it.
The Garretts sound very good, if you can handle a straight through setup (I can't). The Apogees had their problems, but at that price they are quite a buy for a right angle binocular with interchangeable eps. Probably not much resale value, but what the hey, they aren't really bad. We've got some happy owners on this board. In your position I'd get the Apogees (because I need angled oculars) and wait for further fiscal developments.
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gjg
member
Reged: 05/22/06
Posts: 78
Loc: Altadena, CA
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Does the Miyauchi Saturn III provide better images than the BT100's? Also, can you use other companies' EP or are their EPs a proprietary design? The lighter weight seems to be a big plus.
Greg
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Joad
Wordsmith
Reged: 03/22/05
Posts: 11916
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The main drawback of the Saturns is that they require Miyauchi eps, which are both expensive and not always available, from what I understand. I cannot say whether they produce better images than the BT100s. I like the BT100s but have never looked through a Saturn. But I do know that at least one of our members has pushed a Saturn to magnifications that a BT100 couldn't approach.
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 5958
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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I have been follwing these threads for a time, and decided to post a picture of the 5" binos my father made some years ago.
I really didn't know were to post this but I guess here is as good as any place.
My father built the binos with focus control in the right hand grip. You can also adjust the interpupal distance from the grips as well.
They are a most impressive pair.
This article was taken from a S&T issue he was featured in.
My dad is a genius for sure.
I hope to aquire them some day.... 
Rob
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www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
Providing a great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
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Joad
Wordsmith
Reged: 03/22/05
Posts: 11916
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Woohoo! What a piece of history! And what binoculars! And what a 70s haircut!
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gjg
member
Reged: 05/22/06
Posts: 78
Loc: Altadena, CA
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Rob, what is your Dad's phone number? I think I'll offer to buy those from him 
Joad, thanks for the info. It's interesting that there are not more products like the BT100's that allow any EP and have all the other nice features of the BT's. It seems though that the only real drawback of the BT100s is their weight.
Greg
Edited by gjg (11/17/06 10:23 PM)
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FebStars
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/02/06
Posts: 796
Loc: MA
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Hey Rob, That is a great picture you submitted. It's accomplishments like your father's that inspire me to think twice about just ordering something if there is a chance that I might take the time to design and construct it myself. It sounds like you are very proud of your dad! 
Thanks for sharing !
Tom
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Tom H
Meade SN10 Orion ED80
Orion ED100 AstroTech66
Televue Genesis 500mm
Garrett Gemini LW 20x80 Binocs
Orion EQ-G, LXD75 Mounts
"The cure for boredom is curiousity. There is no cure for curiousity."
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10136
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Rob ,
Thanks for that very interesting piece of giant binocular innovation .
You are so right to be so proud of your father !
Regards , Kenny
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 5958
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Woohoo! What a piece of history! And what binoculars! And what a 70s haircut!
Yeah, he was trippen, but still, the machining is unsurpassed.
You never had to take your eyes away from the view to focus, cause your hand was on the focuser all the time.
I luv those binos, and I hope they become mine as did this.....
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www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
Providing a great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 5958
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Rob, what is your Dad's phone number? I think I'll offer to buy those from him
Greg
I think all the hours I put into sanding, and painting them, puts me ahead of the line..... 
Thanks for offering to be third in line....... 
Rob
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www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
Providing a great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 5958
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Hey Rob, That is a great picture you submitted. It's accomplishments like your father's that inspire me to think twice about just ordering something if there is a chance that I might take the time to design and construct it myself. It sounds like you are very proud of your dad!
Thanks for sharing !
Tom
My dad is my hero, and he passed the legasy to me, because I build scopes as well.
All in all, He built:
1 Award winning 6"f/15 refractor with an internal electric helical focuser.
1 Award winning GEM that supports the 6".
1 Hydraulic pier, and hydraulic subsystems to lift the GEM/OTA.
2 6"f/4.5 refractors with custom made double prism inverters for terrestrial use. Plus the mounts for them.
1 pair of 5" binoculars.
1 custom *Lazy boy* recliner chair that was heavily motorized and modified for the binoculars.
1 Large 6" diameter star chart wheel that rotated in conjunction with the RA of the 6"f/15. ( you could literally watch the chart rotate and keep you exactly on target with the scope)
Non astro inventions/creations:
He invented a new, and superior main canopy/cradle attachement for hang gliders(Patented).
He invented the extruding, and retracting telescopic arm used for movie cameras to be used to film motion pictures. (You know the boom arm that camera's ride on that get pictures way out over things, and it is retractible?) He invented the boom arm, and the softwhere to opperate it.
He has invented sophisticated softwhere to run very expensive/sophisticated machining to retool the second *O* ring groove on the solid rocket boosters for the shuttle refit program.(Subcontracted for Thyocal)
Has written numerous other programs for military, and other contractors for control, and opperation of tooling of classified prodjects.
Had invented, and built 3 duel arm wood cutting/copying machines used to duplicate wood carvings from an insignificant plastic model. (Cool...I got the middle sized one)
And he flosses every day....
My dad...... 
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www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
Providing a great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
Reged: 11/17/05
Posts: 5958
Loc: Bremerton Washington
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Quote:
Rob ,
Thanks for that very interesting piece of giant binocular innovation .
You are so right to be so proud of your father !
Regards , Kenny
Thanks Kenny.
He never stops inventing, and building things.
The precision machinist in him creates the most wonderful instruments.
I have aquired the 6"f/15
1 of the 6" f/4.5 scopes. Incidentaly, it had been completely destroyed my weather from the original owners neglect. I was able through significant sleuthing, and persuasion, to confince the old owner to track it down, and of his own accord, he sent it to me.
By using some of its parts,(4" focuser) I built the white scope you see on the counter arm of the big green 6"f/15.
I'm in contact with the owner of the second 6"f/4.5 scope, and am currently in negotiations to aquire that one as well.
1 of the wood carving copying machines.
I hope to aquire the binocs as well, some day. 
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www.goldmtobservingcenter.com
Providing a great place for amateur astronomers, and ATM's to come and enjoy their hobby.
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