Daniel Mounsey
Vendor - Woodland Hils
Reged: 06/12/02
Posts: 2878
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Ridwan, June and myself spent the better portion of an evening testing these OTA's until about 2am on Saturn and star clusters. We conducted star tests, etc. I'm not here to post the results as they will be presented in a review for Korovski Enterprises, more on that later. I have a number of other 4" apos on the way to add to the batch. My goal is to help remove the stigma regarding chromatic abberation from the results of these tests. The differences were profound from our observing bed, one mile from the ocean under excellent seeing. Ridwan has no bias and I think even he has a clearer respect for the matter. I can assure you that the best color correction does not always dictate which instrument will yield the highest contrast or sharpness as there are a number of variables regarding the matter. More on that shortly. I'd like to thank June and Ridwan for assisting me in this upcoming review.
From right to left. TV102IIS, WO/TEC, TAK TSA102, Orion 100ED, TV NP101, Vixen 103ED.
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Tom Trusock
Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 27385
Loc: Alternate Reality (TM)
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What, no FS102?
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There are two theories to arguing with my wife. Neither one works.
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Daniel Mounsey
Vendor - Woodland Hils
Reged: 06/12/02
Posts: 2878
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By the way Ridwan, the WO/TMB just arrived yesterday, so we'll be viewing real shortly.
Best!
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dvb
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 06/18/05
Posts: 1921
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Who is "Korovski Enterprises"? I didn't find anything on Google.
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Skywatcher 10" f/4.7 Newt on Matilda
Skywatcher 10" f/4.7 Collapsible Dob
Meade 8" SN f/4
Celestron C8 SCT
Celestron C6 SCT
Skywatcher ED100
Skywatcher ED80
EQ6 Pro "Matilda"
AT Voyager
Skymaster 15x70
Mallincam HyperColor Plus
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Tom Trusock
Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 27385
Loc: Alternate Reality (TM)
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Sounds like I've used most of those - some nice glass. You should get your hands on a TMB 105/650 and 100/800 as well if you can.
I do wish you had an FS102 tho. It would be interesting to see how the TSA stacks up. I haven't seen the TSA yet.
T
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There are two theories to arguing with my wife. Neither one works.
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pollux
Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 6185
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How come the Vixen 103 look so "fat" and the orion looks so "skinny" 
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Greg Morrison
super member
Reged: 11/16/04
Posts: 148
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"What, no FS102?"
I have to agree. This is very popular scope, that many folks have used and owned, so it would provide a useful reference point for many. It is also the doublet apochromat that is usually referenced in comparison to triplet apochromats. I hope one is ultimately rounded up for the shootout.
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Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 33039
Loc: Gulfport, MS
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SV102 would be a nice addition as well. 
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  Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy
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Refractor6
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/20/04
Posts: 3144
Loc: Vancouver B.C. , Canada
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Quote:
"What, no FS102?"
I have to agree. This is very popular scope, that many folks have used and owned, so it would provide a useful reference point for many. It is also the doublet apochromat that is usually referenced in comparison to triplet apochromats. I hope one is ultimately rounded up for the shootout.
Yes add the fine Tak FS-102 to the mix PLEASE!.
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Stan
Takahashi FS-102 NSV
Antares 152 f/8 prototype
Antares 152 f/6.5
Antares 127 f/6.45 prototype
Orion 9x63 mini giants
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP
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Daniel Mounsey
Vendor - Woodland Hils
Reged: 06/12/02
Posts: 2878
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Quote:
I have a number of other 4" apos on the way to add to the batch.
I already have an FS102 added to the batch. I wouldn't do the review without it.
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5311
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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Good luck, Daniel! Hope you have excellent seeing and clear skies.
Rich
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stefsaber
Post Laureate
Reged: 06/24/06
Posts: 4459
Loc: Rainy Florida
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So when would the review be available?
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-Stefan
"It’s not the fall that kills you; it’s the sudden stop at the end." -Douglas Adams
Current Scopes: "Gator" William Optics 66SD---Black Swan William Optics Megrez 80 II ED Triplet---Zhumell 10" Dob
-Sirius Mount---Canon Rebel XT-
Past Scopes: ETX 90---Vixen ED80Sf
Fort Myers, FL
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ABC
sage
Reged: 10/22/06
Posts: 421
Loc: Heidelberg, Germany
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The tops of 4" apos, TMB 100/800 and Zeiss APQ 100/1000, should also be added. There will be a huge difference in performance, compared to the others...
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Kind regards, Christian
Meade 178 ED
Meade 152 ED
Intes Micro Alter M500
Bresser 70/700 Achromat
CGE
EQ-6
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Greg Morrison
super member
Reged: 11/16/04
Posts: 148
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"The tops of 4" apos, TMB 100/800 and Zeiss APQ 100/1000, should also be added. There will be a huge difference in performance, compared to the others..."
What do you mean when you say "huge difference" in performance? I've looked through a number of high end 4" apos and they've all been pretty similar in performance. It takes a good deal of hair splitting (and superb to excellent seeing) before any differences emerge in my experience.
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William1956
super member
Reged: 12/10/06
Posts: 177
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Post deleted by William1956
Edited by William1956 (03/07/07 03:23 PM)
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 10307
Loc: Oort Cloud
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Quote:
My goal is to help remove the stigma regarding chromatic abberation from the results of these tests. The differences were profound from our observing bed, one mile from the ocean under excellent seeing... I can assure you that the best color correction does not always dictate which instrument will yield the highest contrast or sharpness as there are a number of variables regarding the matter.
Hi Daniel.
Based on what you're saying, the jist of it seems that you experienced scopes with very high color correction, but other problems, as well as scopes with more color, but greater contrast and sharpness.
Looking forward to the review!
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A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife and three curious cats.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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echan
member
Reged: 03/24/05
Posts: 83
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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I absolutely agree with what you said. There will be differences, but by no means drastic. I've done my own personal shootout between the TSA102, FS102, FCT100, TV102, SV105, Traveler. A 4" apo is a 4" apo. Differences to the discerning eye? YES, but not so much. I've viewed through my friend's APQ100/1000 & APQ100/640. They're the best in the 4" class, but will not "blow away" any of the other aforementioned classmates.
That said, Daniel's right when saying color correction isn't everything. I'm sure Tom Trusock agrees here too. There's too many other factors behind performance at the eyepiece to chalk everything to color correction. I had the TV102 on one side of the Giro and the Traveler on the other side; Mars was the target during the 2003 opposition. No difference at the eyepiece at all. In fact, I liked the TV102 better because it was holding focus better than the Traveler as the seeing came and went. This I chalk up to the F/L difference.
-Evan
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Mattbtn
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/08/06
Posts: 3163
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
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Quote:
I don't believe that for a second. The differences between these scopes will be very subtle. A 4" apo is a 4" apo.
Bill
I have to disagree. I thought the same thing on 3" APO's until someone who had done a direct comparison chimed in. Perhaps 4" APO's are different, but I think one should keep an open mind and accept that the differences might be pretty significant.
I really look forward to reading this review,
Clear skies!
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"Computers help us solve the many mysteries of the universe. They also help us make the same mistake many times, really fast."
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ABC
sage
Reged: 10/22/06
Posts: 421
Loc: Heidelberg, Germany
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[quote
What do you mean when you say "huge difference" in performance? I've looked through a number of high end 4" apos and they've all been pretty similar in performance. It takes a good deal of hair splitting (and superb to excellent seeing) before any differences emerge in my experience.
OK, surely you´re right.
But for me as a star splitter, "huge difference" means i.e. going beyond the Dawes limit (i.e. last year I could see a clear split of lambda Cygni, sep 0.9", in my friend´s APQ 100/1000 that was invisible even in my 178 f9 ED side by side...). I agree, the differences on the planets and DSO might be much more negligible in a 4" highend apo shootout.
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Kind regards, Christian
Meade 178 ED
Meade 152 ED
Intes Micro Alter M500
Bresser 70/700 Achromat
CGE
EQ-6
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R_Angkasa
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/16/06
Posts: 899
Loc: SO PAS - CA
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Excellent Daniel . . . call me whenever you have the chance . . .
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10x42L IS
FS128
12" DSH
3.5, 5, 7,
10, 14, 20,
30, 40
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