BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Country road
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I cannot believe this. . . but I have an unexpected $700 coming my way.
So my budget is $700 (maximum).
My objective is to purchase a nice pair of compact roof binoculars for birding and nature walks. I am looking for edge to edge sharpness, bright views, color vibrancy as good or better than my Swift Audubon 8.5x44 820ED, carrying them in my pocket, and totally submersible if the need arises.
The sales rep at Eagle Optics recommended the following:
Leica Ultravid 8x20 BCR
Eye relief -- 16mm
FOV -- 341 ft/1000 yds
Close focus -- 7.2 ft
Weight -- 8.5 oz
Dimensions (HxW) -- 3.6 x 4.4 in
Weatherproofing -- Waterproof/Nitrogen Purged
Nikon Premier LX L 8x20
Eye relief -- 15mm
FOV -- 356 ft/1000 yds
Close focus -- 7.8 ft
Weight -- 9.5 oz
Dimensions (HxW) -- 3.7 x 4.2 in.
Weatherproofing -- Waterproof/Fogproof
I appreciate any and all opinions, including recommendations of different binoculars than the above. However, please remember my budget and objective.
This is a very serious post! I plan on enjoying several nature preserves and bird sanctuaries this fall. 
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 3361
Loc: NJ USA
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The Pentax 8x32 DCF ED's are $743.11 w/free shipping and would be my choice IMHO. Get the $43.11 from the cookie jar. 
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Pentax PF-80ED
Meade 102ED APO
Orion EON 72
120ST
Apex 127
C6 XLT
CR150
C9.25
XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL
Canon 10x42L IS WP
15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45
Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5312
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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You might also look at the Zeiss Victory 8x20.
Good luck,
Rich
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 3361
Loc: NJ USA
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If the Leica Ultravid 8x20 BCR's have $250 better optics than the Nikon Premier LX L 8x20's then get the lighter Ultravids.
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Pentax PF-80ED
Meade 102ED APO
Orion EON 72
120ST
Apex 127
C6 XLT
CR150
C9.25
XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL
Canon 10x42L IS WP
15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45
Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1660
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Bob,
Have you ever "looked through any" 20mm compact binoculars?
I agree with Joe, for serious birding, I would not want anything smaller than a 32mm compact.  
The new Pentax DCF ED 8x32 would be an excellent companion to your Swift ED bino.
Eye Relief 17mm
Exit Pupil 4mm vs. 2.5mm
Close Focus 4.9'
FOV 393'
5"x5"
23.5 ozs.
JIS Class 6 waterproof
ED glass optical elements for color and sharper images
Hybrid aspherical lens elements for edge-to-edge sharpness
Outdoor Life Magazine recently did a test on the DCF ED and raved about the color.
You may have to carry it in a jacket pocket instead of a shirt pocket.
I would definitely do some in store comparisons "before" you spend your money.
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
Edited by hallelujah (08/08/07 08:31 PM)
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Country road
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How do the Leica Ultravids 8x20 compare to the Pentax 8x32 DCF ED's?
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Country road
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Yes, I own a pair of Nikon Travelite 8x25s.
Now, with the extra $700 coming in, I want to have better views. I guess the ED glass in the Swift Audubons have spoiled me. I very much like the color vibrancy.
So you guys think the 32mm aperture would be the minimum for serious birding?
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1660
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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That is something you will have to test for yourself. Each individuals likes and dislikes can be miles apart.
I really don't see how you can "fairly" compare an ED bino to a non-ED.
Guys on other optics talk forums order both, and send back the one they like the least.
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Country road
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Thank you for recommendation of the Pentax DCF EDs.
Yes, I went through the ED/nonED comparison with the Swift Audubons. I was amazed at the difference that the ED glass can make.
Now, I am starting to look at the Pentax DCF EDs very seriously. How would their 8x32 compare to their 8x43? Another $100 or so in price. Would the larger aperture add that much for birding?
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1660
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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During bright daylight probably not a whole lot, where you begin to notice the difference in aperture, 32mm vs. 43mm, is at dawn and dusk and very cloudy days.
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
Edited by hallelujah (08/08/07 09:08 PM)
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Country road
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Thank you again for the suggestions on the Pentax. I have no stores close to me--so I will probably do the online purchase and return strategy when I make the decision.
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
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Neil Weiner
member
Reged: 08/29/04
Posts: 98
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I.
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=4698
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=4587
II.
Compactness is often defeated in actual use by neckstraps, lens covers and cases that are unnecessarily bulky or not well thought out.
To carry an x30 or x32 roof in a jacket pocket or fanny pack, I use a kitchen plastic bag. That equals 4 lens caps and a case that get totally out of the way when you quickly stuff that plastic bag in any pocket. (If it is a tiny fanny pack devoted only to the bino, I skip the plastic bag.)
For a neckstrap, I use a flat cordura bootlace through 1 (one) eyelet on the bino body. That is all that is needed for the safety of the bino, to defeat gravity. It is long enough to hang the bino around my neck or to loop securely around my wrist.
Thus my x30 or x32 is used as a true compact ... mostly in pocket or fanny pack ... ok for almost any occasion (not weird, until it comes out) ... ready for any opportunity. If the cordura lace was not enough, that meant it was a true, hours-long, bino event, not an opportunistic occasion, and I could have brought a bit more bino.
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Country road
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Neil:
Thank you for the suggestions. It seems like you have the convenience issues of compact roofs figured out to a "T". Yes, I agree, comfort and speed of accessing are paramount with compact roofs. Particularly when the target objects are so quick to move away.
The thought of walking through the woods with the compact roofs in one hand, the eyes darting about, and the ear cocked for sounds on either side is so exhilarating. 
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 3361
Loc: NJ USA
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Quote:
How do the Leica Ultravids 8x20 compare to the Pentax 8x32 DCF ED's?
I don't have either one but a 4mm exit pupil would work much better than a 2.5mm exit pupil in less than ideal lighting conditions.
--------------------
Pentax PF-80ED
Meade 102ED APO
Orion EON 72
120ST
Apex 127
C6 XLT
CR150
C9.25
XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL
Canon 10x42L IS WP
15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45
Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Country road
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Joe O.:
Thank you for the Pentax ED recommendation and the heads up on the exit pupil size. That specification was missing on the Eagle Optics website. 
The Pentax EDs are definitely on my radar screen!
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Country road
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Rich:
Thank you for your recommendation of the Zeiss Victory 8x20s. I like the weight and size of these binoculars. They received an Editor's Pick from the magazine Outdoor Life, along with another pair I am considering.
Do you own a pair of the Zeiss Victory 8x20s? If you do, I am interested in how you like the unusual body design.
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
Edited by BobinKy (08/09/07 10:15 AM)
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Jared
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/11/05
Posts: 1871
Loc: Piedmont, California, U.S.
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I own a pair of the Leica Ultravid 8x20's and love them. Light weight, exceptional optical quality, and good eye relief. That being said, I would not consider them serious birding bins. The exit pupil makes them harder to use--not as fast to the eye--and they don't have as wide a field of view as most 8x32 bins. They are a great "go everywhere" model and as a result are probably my most used pair, but the 8x32's are a better choice for true birding.
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- Jared Willson
- Fluorostar FLT-110 w/ TEC optics
- Vixen VC200L
- Astro-Physics Mach1 GTO
- Stellarvue SV80S
- Takahashi Teegul SP Mount
- STL-11000
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edwincjones
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 4423
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Bob,
I would strongly recommend that you not buy blind, but go to binocular shops, sporting goods stores, and try first hand-both for the optics and the ergonomics.
I recently went through this to find a better binocular than my Audubon EDs and they are hard to beat. The Zeiss and Sw lines beat the Swifts, but are out of your price range.
Amazon.com has the Nikon SE 8x32s at <$700 but they are not waterproof or roofs.
edj
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n w arkansas
Binocular, Solar, General Amateur Astronomy
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Country road
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Jared:
Thank you for telling me about your Leica Ultravid 8x20's.
Yes, "go anywhere" is one criteria for my next pair of binoculars--light and compact. The Leica Ultravid 8x20s were the first recommendation from the sales rep at Eagle Optics. She also said they were sharp edge to edge and the Leica lifetime passport warranty was exceptional.
However, she did say they were not for everybody due to the compact size.
I understand how a good compact can easily become one's "most used pair" on the nature trail and strolling through a bird sanctuary. I also understand that serious birding is a slower activity than "spur of the moment" walking on a short trail, in the city, or by the water.
Do you have a favorite birding binocular with a wide field of view that is "fast to the eye"--and still not cumbersome on the trail?
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Country road
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edwincjones:
Thank you for your reply. I am very interested in your search for a better pair of binoculars than the Swift Audubon EDs for nature and birding use.
If you do not mind continuing our discussion. . .for the moment, put aside my budget restriction of $700. In your opinion, which Leicas or Swarovskis beat the Audubon EDs for portability, quickness to the eye, optical sharpness, and the ED glass color vibrancy?
--------------------
Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
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