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Mr. Bill
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 2790
Loc: Just passing through.....
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I like the "eye candy", give me a Bortle 1/2 sky and my 25x150 Fujinon binoculars.....MW starclouds and light and dark nebulae.
Go big instead of "averted vision blobs."
Different strokes....
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10x50 Fujinon FMT-SX binos
15x70 AP binos + Paragon p-mount
Oberwerk 100BT 45 degree + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/6.5 Antares achromat
150mm f/8 homemade achromat....EE Barnard MW Sweeper
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery split tube
35mm Pan, 26mm Nagler, 17mm Nagler, 13mm Ethos, 8mm Ethos
Member IDA
Edited by Mr. Bill (08/21/07 05:55 PM)
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palsing
super member
Reged: 08/11/05
Posts: 100
Loc: Poway, CA
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Quote:
I'm like Alvin. On a good night, I tend to ignore the eye candy and observe the fainter things instead, because I hate to lose those things a great night can bring.
What you say is true, of course, but what is also true is that on a perfect or near-perfect night the eye candy looks a LOT different than it does on a run-of-the-mill night.
For myself it is an ongoing mental battle as how to prioritize the to-do list. I know that on "those" nights I will be able to see the really dim things I'm unable to see on other nights, but then again, seeing the incredible detail suddenly available on the big and bright old friends, well, it is a problem that always has a happy ending, whichever end of the spectrum I end up viewing. Usually it is a complimentary mix of anything and everything.
I have the exact same problem when getting the rare opportunity to occasionally use a Professional telescope. When I was preparing my list for 2 nights on the 82" in Texas, it was really hard to decide to go dim or bright, but in the end, both catagories are very rewarding. Trust me when I say that you can't imagine what NGC 3242 (Ghost of Jupiter) looks like at 842X and 82" of aperture, that image is burned into my retina for life.
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Paul
25" Obsession
5.5" Newt - finder (Cometcatcher)
Hutech 22 X 100 binos w/LPS-P2 filters
Canon 10 X 30 IS binos
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stevecoe
Reged: 04/24/04
Posts: 2148
Loc: Arizona, USA
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I love it ALL....little, faint fuzzies and then blowing light out my ears looking at the Veil in a 36 inch, binoculars big and small and even NAKED EYE...yes, you can see stuff with no equipment at all.
I recently acquired a 6 inch refractor and a new GOTO mount. I plan to search out everything the SAC database that is brighter than 11th magnitude. Lots of famous stuff, the best double stars and red stars....like that. It shows up as a fun project to use a moderate size scope and see the sky with an aperture I have not used much in the past.
Enjoy;
Steve Coe
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150mm 6" f/8 Celestron Refractor on Sirius Mount
80mmED 3" f/7.5 Orion Refractor
Author "Deep Sky Observing" Springer-Verlag
Author "Nebulae and How to Observe Them" Springer
New Canon Xt astrocamera with Hutech modification
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edwincjones
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 4561
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Not really sure that I am a veteran observer, but
#1 the Sun with telescopes
#2 comets with binoculars
#3 mesc DSOs-usually the brighter ones
edj
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n w arkansas
Binocular, Solar, General Amateur Astronomy
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Starman1
Vendor - Scope City
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 11086
Loc: Los Angeles
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Quote:
I love it ALL....little, faint fuzzies and then blowing light out my ears looking at the Veil in a 36 inch, binoculars big and small and even NAKED EYE...yes, you can see stuff with no equipment at all.
I recently acquired a 6 inch refractor and a new GOTO mount. I plan to search out everything the SAC database that is brighter than 11th magnitude. Lots of famous stuff, the best double stars and red stars....like that. It shows up as a fun project to use a moderate size scope and see the sky with an aperture I have not used much in the past.
Enjoy;
Steve Coe
Steve,
Given the lengthy experience you have, and from what I know of Arizona viewing (from innumerable posts of Brian Skiff), pull out everything above magnitude 14 for that 6"--otherwise, you'll run into too many fields with 5-6 objects in them and only one from the SAC list.
I have a 5" Mak, and am continually surprised at what can be seen in it. Last Fall, under mag. 20.9 skies (brighter than my norm), I was seeing H-II regions in the spiral arms of M33 with it. The images are sure a lot fainter than my 12.5", but I'm usually amazed at what can be seen.
Since nearly every object on the SAC list can be seen with 8", I think you'll quickly find that 6" refractor can go pretty deep.
Let us know when you find out--then I can say I told you so.
Don
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Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member, TeleVue junkie
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Brian Albin
Seeker
Reged: 08/22/06
Posts: 494
Loc: Western Oregon
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Not one Lunar or Planetary comment. Has orbital probe photography taken the allure from these targets?
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Tele
sage
Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 206
Loc: Eastern Oklahoma
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"Not one Lunar or Planetary comment. Has orbital probe photography taken the allure from these targets?"
Well it is the deepsky forum. We're all hairy knuckned bucket pushers around here. 
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The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the most discoveries, is not "Eureka!", but "That's funny..."
-- Isaac Asimov
14" f4.56 Homemade dob w/ Raycraft Optics
8" f5 Homemade dob w/ Orion Optics
4" f10 Homemade off axis dob w/ DGM optics
10 x 60 Apogee Binos w/ neb filters
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Illinois
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 562
Loc: near Chicago, Illinois USA
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Hey Starman1! Why not you write a book about deep sky objects like Steve Coe did?
I like Steve's books!
Galaxies, group of galaxies, nebula and small open clusters on my 16" dobsonian
Anything that I able to see on my 10" Dobsonian.
Faint nebula like Veil, any open clusters, bright galaxies, and nebula on my 4.5" Reflector in real dark sky! Narrowband Filter and low power is nice in the dark sky to see Veil Nebula!
Not easy to see any fainter than 9th mag. Galaxies in my backyard on my 10" (white Zone light pollution)
Someday, homemade trailer with my 16" to drive farther to darkest sky to see faintest galaxies that I able to see! Fun!
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Astronomer since 1975!
Meade 16" Lightbridge Dobsonian
Orion 10" SkyQuest Classic Dobsonian
Tele Vue Eyepieces
Orion Expanse Wide-Field 6mm eyepiece
4.5" F5 Reflector since 1982!
Orion Narrowband and SkyGlow filters
Member of IDA, let's fight light pollution!
Old Edmund 6"F8...donated to cousins
Super Polaris C8...donated to Byron Observatory in Illinois
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Tony Flanders
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 2204
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
There is such a consensus about not going back to things seen before ...
Actually, there seems to be a consensus that everybody does go back to things seen before. I do so quite often. But if I restrict myself only to things seen before, I tend to grow stale.
Besides, there's tons of stuff out there that I've never seen. What am I supposed to do when one of those objects stumbles into my eyepiece -- close my eyes?
Quote:
I take it visible means just barely.
Do any of you look at such things?
Sure. And I spend quite a lot of time looking for things and failing to find them, too. If you don't have any negative sightings, you're not pushing your limits.
Why bother? Lots of reasons. Yes, trophy collecting is one. Also, keeping in practice. Seeing barely visible detail in showpiece objects uses much the same skills as detecting barely visible objects.
But most important, you never know what an object will look like until you try it. Most galaxies are just faint blobs with detectable ellipticity and position angle, but every one in ten you get a real surprise. And surprises definitely can happen in objects that are barely visible.
With nebulae in particular, its not uncommon to start a session being unsure that you can see it at all, and end up seeing more and more detail.
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Tony Flanders
eyeglasses
6x15 and 8x32 monoculars
8x25, 7x35, 10x30 IS, 10x50, and 15x70 binoculars
70mm and 100mm achromatic refractors
4.5", 7", and 12.5" Dobs
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Starman1
Vendor - Scope City
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 11086
Loc: Los Angeles
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Quote:
Hey Starman1! Why don't you write a book about deep sky objects like Steve Coe did?
I like Steve's books!
Galaxies, group of galaxies, nebula and small open clusters for my 16" dobsonian.
And anything that I should be able to see with my 10" Dobsonian.
Faint nebula like the Veil, any open clusters, bright galaxies, and nebulae for my 4.5" Reflector in a real dark sky! A Narrowband Filter and low power is all that's needed, in a dark sky, to see the Veil Nebula in that aperture!
It's not easy to see any galaxies fainter than 9th mag. in my backyard with my 10" (white zone light pollution).
Someday, I'll have a homemade trailer for my 16" to drive farther to the darkest skies to see the faintest galaxies that I can see! Fun!
Writing a book is a true labor of love. I spent months writing a treatise on optics that hasn't yet been posted. Every time I think about writing an observing book, I look at Kepple and Sanner's Night Sky Observer's Guide and think, "Can I improve on this?" Or the Saguaro Astronomy Club's Deep Sky observing list of over 10,000 objects.
Today's amateur has SO many sources for observing lists and data (literally thousands of web sites and hundreds of books) that I'm not sure I could bring anything new "to the table".
That people like Coe and Steinicke have written new observing guides is highly commendable, though, and admirable.
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Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member, TeleVue junkie
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stevecoe
Reged: 04/24/04
Posts: 2148
Loc: Arizona, USA
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No Lunar and Planetary??...I just spent hours last night doing the Moon, Jupiter and some doubles from my backyard with the SCT 11 in the observatory. I can just sit and stare at all that detail on the Moon or watch the satellites of Jupiter whirl around. And that was facing the heat on a record breaking night...I think it was about 200 degrees in the observatory, with the fan on HIGH!! Ik, maybe only 150.
I do indeed go back year after year to old favorites--M 31, 17, 5, 3, 27. I have a 500 hour exposure of the Orion Nebula with at least 40 different telescopes, collected over 31 years. It is stored in wet memory, but I may try and print it out one of these days;-)
I enjoy both looking for an object I have either never seen before or not seen with my "newest" telescope. Getting a new eyepiece or filter means using it to see if it reveals new details.
I understand that a person can lose interest in a hobby. I can't tell you the last time I played a round of golf and I used to play or practice six days a week. I just don't see the attraction of spending hours and money on a golf course right now. So, I say that I lost interst in golf. People say that they are giving up on visual astronomy because they've have "seen it all". I am not certain that is possible in one human lifetime.
There are things to do that I have not even attempted--variable star observations, asteroids and comet hunting. Plenty to keep busy for many years to come.
Enjoy;
Steve Coe
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150mm 6" f/8 Celestron Refractor on Sirius Mount
80mmED 3" f/7.5 Orion Refractor
Author "Deep Sky Observing" Springer-Verlag
Author "Nebulae and How to Observe Them" Springer
New Canon Xt astrocamera with Hutech modification
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Starman1
Vendor - Scope City
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 11086
Loc: Los Angeles
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Quote:
Not one Lunar or Planetary comment. Has orbital probe photography taken the allure from these targets?
I spent the '60s, '70s '80s, and some of the '90s looking at the Moon and planets.
I've "moved on". I know there are people who ONLY view those objects, but they are usually newbies, or live in areas so bright that those are the only objects visible.
When I'm at a star party and someone is excited about a view of Jupiter in a particular scope, I usually say, "How nice. Have a good time looking" and then go back to my scope.
Looking at the Moon or planets will ruin my night vision for at least 45 minutes. I get one or at most two nights a month to view deep-sky objects--why would I sacrifice 45 minutes of that night to look at the Moon or a planet when I've seen them literally thousands of times?
I've said (forgive my exaggeration) that planets are just "little balls of light pollution". At a dark site, they are so bright they wash out the sky for several degrees in each direction.
I might spend a minute on a planet at the very end of an observing session, when it will be the last object viewed before bed. But frankly, planets just aren't interesting to me any more. Spacecraft and superb imaging (see Donald Parker!!) views have taken the place of looking at them through the eyepiece except under the last-object-viewed situation. And then I prefer the Moon because the details are so intense.
Do many big scope users with decades of viewing spend time looking at the Moon and planets? I suppose so. Isn't that why the little Apo refractors are so popular? My 5" Mak looks at the Moon a lot. LA is so light polluted that the Moon, Sun, and planets are just about it for observing here.
But when I'm at a site with dark skies, I'll pass.
My attitude may not be typical, but I toss it out as one explanation of why "Not one Lunar or Planetary" comment.
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Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member, TeleVue junkie
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Tom Trusock
Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 27799
Loc: Alternate Reality (TM)
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Quote:
For some reason I don't go back to eye candy as much as I did before as I felt that I'm wasting precious observing time and being "blinded" at the same time.
It's both amusing and frustrating to me when I go to a star party and everybody wants to look at M31 with the 25 or 30 inch telescope.
BTDT.
Lets take that thing and bust some Abell galaxy clusters, Hicksons, Arps, Abell Planetaries, etc! I'm a hopeless tourist. I like going places I've never been and seeing things I've never seen.
T
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A mans greatest contribution lies in those he leaves behind.
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cildarith
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/26/04
Posts: 2169
Loc: San Diego, CA
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A lot of general advice so far; here a couple of examples.
On August 8 I chased down a few challenging emission nebulae in the summer Milky Way: Sh2-82, Sh2-84 (not found), Sh2-88, Sh2-90, Sh2-101 (!), Sh2-104, Sh2-112 (!), Sh2-115.
My targets planned for next month will be a little less challenging (I hope): NGC 6939, NGC 6946, Barnard 150, NGC 7008, Struve 2751, IC 1396, Struve 2816, Mu Cephei, Barnard 163, Struve 2840, Barnard 169, IC 1434, NGC 7235, NGC 7261, IC 5217, NGC 7281, NGC 7296, NGC 7380, IC 1470, and NGC 7510.
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Eric
6" f/6 Parks Newtonian
10x50 Bushnell Binocs
CN Sketch Gallery
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Starman1
Vendor - Scope City
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 11086
Loc: Los Angeles
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Eric,
Most of your new targets will be fairly easy for you. You do have a couple challeges, there, though.
I'll be interested in hearing your impression of the nebula IC 1470.
My notes are from viewing it with an 8", so it'll be nice to compare notes.
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Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member, TeleVue junkie
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Tele
sage
Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 206
Loc: Eastern Oklahoma
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On the planets and moon thing.
I am in the same camp (opinion)with Don or somewhere close by.
When I'm in the back yard I'll visit Jupiter or Saturn, sometimes Mars if it is close by, but star parties and dark skies are for deep sky.
It is a hobby for me and I do it for pleasure, so depending upon how I feel that is what I will go for.
I always have my "What's up tonight that I haven't logged yet" list. After I collimate my scope I usually check out some familiar targets to judge how the sky is doing.
If I am blown away then after my eyes dark adapt I'll start going after the objects I think might be challenging or ones that I have fail to see before.
If I am not impressed with the transparency or if I'm just feeling lazy then I might go after easier stuff or double stars or drag out a smaller scope and see what it can do.
I will usually end the evening(read early morning) looking for zodiacal lights, satelites, planets, bino/naked eye stuff, listening to coyotes, owls, (pink floyd down low) and thinking about how I will call in sick to work.
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The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the most discoveries, is not "Eureka!", but "That's funny..."
-- Isaac Asimov
14" f4.56 Homemade dob w/ Raycraft Optics
8" f5 Homemade dob w/ Orion Optics
4" f10 Homemade off axis dob w/ DGM optics
10 x 60 Apogee Binos w/ neb filters
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Brian Albin
Seeker
Reged: 08/22/06
Posts: 494
Loc: Western Oregon
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A note of clarification:
If you are reading churlish or snide quality into my posts, that is only my writing inability to show my genuine intent which is curiosity. I have written these questions because of an interest in the answers.
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Tele
sage
Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 206
Loc: Eastern Oklahoma
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Brian,
Possibly I am to blame for your consternation. My since of humor leans toward self deprivation. It is hard for me to judge how others take my comments when it is given in written word like these forums.
I tend to be flippant and irreverent (silly) in day to day conversation by nature but never churlish nor snide (cruel).
I take what you have written at face value as an honest inquiry and answer it with the honest childish enthusiasm that I hold for my hobby.
My joke about us being hairy bucket pushers was referring to this being the deep sky forum and it figures that we haven't spoken of our love of planetary viewing.
I would hazard a guess that there are more planetary viewers than deep sky folks in the hobby today given the amount of light pollution and the number of people that frequent the refractor forums, but they don't hang out in the deep dark with us here in the deep sky forum 
I am glad you have written your questions. I too am interested in the answers. I also question your inability to write given your choice of verbiage. I had to look up churlish; Good word!
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The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the most discoveries, is not "Eureka!", but "That's funny..."
-- Isaac Asimov
14" f4.56 Homemade dob w/ Raycraft Optics
8" f5 Homemade dob w/ Orion Optics
4" f10 Homemade off axis dob w/ DGM optics
10 x 60 Apogee Binos w/ neb filters
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Starman1
Vendor - Scope City
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 11086
Loc: Los Angeles
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Quote:
My since of humor leans toward self deprivation.
Tele,
Assuming you don't suffer from anorexia nervosa, I think you meant to say deprecation. 
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Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member, TeleVue junkie
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Covey32
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/09/04
Posts: 666
Loc: Georgia
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I'm planning to hang around and wait for the Andromeda Galaxy to merge with ours.
Should be a great show with a 30mm GSO Plossl.
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Hank
12.5" Mag1 Portaball
Orion 120mm F5 Refractor
Skywatcher 120ED F7.5 Refractor
1982 Celestron C8 Orange tube
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