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Anonymous
Unregistered
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As a newbie...I'm trying to decide on a good starter bino.
One thing I'd like is that they be waterproof.
While I'm very tempted to go with a larger sized 15 x 70...I'm taking into consideration the advice here that a more adequate beginner size is 10 x 50.
Basically...I just want to be amazed above and beyond what I've only seen up to now with the naked eye.
I plan to mount whatever I get for maximum performance.
Is 10 x 50 the way to go...?
And if so...the only two models/manufactuers I've come across so far are the Oberwerk and Nikon AE in the WP 10 x 50 range?
Would either of these (2) be what most recommend...or are there others that fit this bill.
BTW...I'd still like some clarification on what I'll be missing with not going with the 15 x 70....but as long as I'll be pleasantly surprised with the 10 x 50's...they do have some obvious advantages of being more versatile in daytime while canoe tripping, etc.
Thanks for your consideration,
-Mike
Edited by mvg (09/08/04 06:20 PM)
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lighttrap
Reged: 02/06/04
Posts: 3833
Loc: cloudy, foggy, humid NC, US
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Here are some others for you to consider: My beginning binocular suggestions. Any on that list that have "WP" by them are waterproof to one degree or another. In addition, the Fujinon FMT-SX series at the bottom are as well.
In my opinion, 10x50 is by far and away the most versitile single size. Others like the smaller size and sometimes easier to hold steady 8x40s/8x42s. What you're giving up with either of those sizes, as compared to the much higher powers is a lot of weight and bulk, and the ability to see somewhat fainter objects. What you're gaining is a binocular that can be handheld for use both astronomically and terrestrially. IMO, everybody ought to start out with either an 8x40 or 10x50 as a basic, all purpose bino before even thinking about any of the larger 15x70s or 16x70s or 20x80s, etc.
Edited by lighttrap (09/08/04 04:53 PM)
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10146
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Mike,
As recently pointed out by a couple of members , it might just help others help YOU ( or any other "newbie" ) if a basic idea of your LOCATION was included.
I say this because someone looking for any item from say the USA , finds themselves in a very different position from anyone living in say , the UK or New Zealand.
IF you are a US resident , and waterproofing is important , you certainly have more choice in the "up to 50mm" range than with anything larger ,and the Nikon Action Extreme looks a good choice.
As far as "clarification of what you'd likely be missing with 10 x 50s as opposed to 15 x 70s -- I'm sure if you spend a little while searching the archives of this forum , you will find out.
Good luck -- Kenny.
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If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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I've given Mike (mvg ) a lot to think about over in the beginner's forum. I need to step back and let some others give an alternate (or similar) point of view.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Fiske
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/14/04
Posts: 2057
Loc: Missouri / United States
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The one additional comment I would offer is that 10x42 binoculars combine both the light weight of smaller models with the additional 2x mag of 10x50s. You're giving up a small amount of aperture, but as we've seen repeatedly this isn't as critical as the magnification.
If they're within your price range, Fujinon 10x42 BFLs are an excellent value, even more so at present due to a sale at astronomics where they are now priced at $219.95, normally $259.95.
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Fiske Miles
Nikon 8x42 LX / 12x50 SE Binos
Mini Borg 60ED, TV-101, AT80Ach, XT-8, C11/CI-700, 22-Inch Dob
Way too many Nagler eyepieces
http://www.fiskemiles.blogspot.com/
www.fiskemiles.com
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hi Kenny,
I updated my profile...I'm on the US/Canadian border in Niagara Falls...(I usually buy gear for my other hobby in the States, but occasionally I'll cross the border if there's something Canadian made that I need)...btw, thanks for the info.
Mike, (lighttrap), yes, I read your Beginner's Bino thread...a really nice piece, thanks.
And Ed, that tip on the Adorama (click thru) to the basket final price is nice to know....thanks again for your help.
Fiske...something you wrote above caught my attention:
"You're giving up a small amount of aperture, but as we've seen repeatedly this isn't as critical as the magnification."
This has got me looking at the (12) x 50 Nikon Action Extremes WP model. [I'd say that there Adorama price of +-$150.00 is about my budget limit...seeing that I also need to budget for an adequate tripod]
With that said, any thoughts on this increase in mag from 12 to 10 as a starter bino?
Thanks again for your consideration,
-Mike
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lighttrap
Reged: 02/06/04
Posts: 3833
Loc: cloudy, foggy, humid NC, US
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Quote:
If they're within your price range, Fujinon 10x42 BFLs are an excellent value, even more so at present due to a sale at astronomics where they are now priced at $219.95, normally $259.95.
I would've bought those awhile ago, except they're listed as having only 6mm of eye relief. I don't know what the eye relief of the 8x42 Fujinon BFLs that I borrowed was, but it was more than that, and not uncomfortable to this non-glasses wearer, though I'd imagine it to be way too tight for most folks that do wear glasses. Also, I find it objectionable that our Astronomics sponsor is still claiming that waterproof, O ring sealed porro prisms are something of a rarity. They are not. If anything, I expect O ring sealed porros to take the market dominance position amongst porro prism binoculars in the next year or two. Currently, most of the better known brands, and even some of the China imports offer a water proof porro prism line. This ain't rocket science.
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18" Starsplitter II f/4.5
8" Hardin Dob f/6
C5 workhorse mini SCT f/10 or f/6.3
70mm TV Ranger dual purpose birding/astro
77mm Leica Televid APO
16x70 Fujinons on UA Deluxe Mt.
12x50 Nikon SE
8x30 Nikon E2s
and many others
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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[I would've bought those [Nikon AE 12x50s] awhile ago, except they're listed as having only 6mm of eye relief.]
Nope, that was misinformation. I measure the actual eye relief of the Nikon Action Extreme 12x50 at about 13mm to 15mm. I use them with my glasses on and I can see the entire 5.2° (measured) field of view. Eye relief is about the same as the 10x50, maybe 1-2mm less. I like the twist out eye cups with 3 separate locking positions. I use the 10x50s turned out one click.
The 12x50s are pretty nice. For me that's really pushing the limits of handheld, but I have used them HH for brief periods. See the minreviews for some more info.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
Edited by EdZ (09/08/04 09:27 PM)
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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ok....I'm hijacking my own thread here...but my pupils are dilated from reading thru previously related postings in search of a good beginner bino.
Fiske...I see that you really are pushing pretty hard for the Fujinon 10 x 42 BFL's.
I'd be really interested to know what others think of a side by side comparison of the Nikon AE 10 x 50's and these 10 x 42 Fujinon's that Fiske refers to. At their sale price of $220 that's about as far as I'd stretch myself for a first pair.
I want this first pair to be used for daytime viewing....(like seeing a moose across the lake)...but my real aim in getting a pair of good binoculars is to mount them and start a methodical study of astronomy which I've been wanting to do for years.
Here's a few things I've gathered in reading a whole hodge-podge of previous posting on CN:
Again....total newbie hear...so take these with a grain of salt:
*the Nikon (Ed's testing? or maybe it was Mike Swaim's) has some relative poor performance in it's outer field of view?
*the Fujinon has a good track record for QC...is this going to mean that even at 10 x 42....(the lower aperature)...the QC of the Fujinon product is going to make up for it's lower aperature?
*Fujinon 10 x 42 BFL comes across to me as more of a bird watching bino...well, at least on the astronomics website...but is it still very good choice for nite time astro viewing?
*Again, I'd definately want to mount whichever model I chose...if that matters at all. Not all the time, but I'd want to take advantage of this stability factor.
The other model I'm still wondering about is the Nikon AE 12 x 50....and how it compares for nitetime viewing when stacked up against these two models.
At present sale prices, it kinda looks like this:
Nikon AE 10 x 50 $140
Nikon AE 12 x 50 $155(ish)
Fujinon 10 x 42 BFL $220 (no clue what BFL stands for)
Again, I'm looking for waterproof.
Sorry to ramble on here....
(No idea what my dilated pupil size is)
Thanks for the room to rant.
-Mike
P.S. A few people have mentioned to get the best you can afford...that's why I also thought about the 15 x 70 Oberwerks...but that would probably be too much overkill as a first pair for me....(don't know the sky yet)...plus, I don't like that they're not waterproof...Hmm...then there's the Oberwerk 10 x 50 WP? Again...thanks for the considerations...Mike
Edited by mvg (09/09/04 08:53 AM)
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 29817
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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Mike, I have the Nikon 10x50 Action Extreme binoculars and bought them for daytime and evening viewing. All I can say is they fit the bill perfectly for me. I was out scanning the sky last night and they are very enjoyable to use for that. Earlier this week I was standing on the tallest peak in the Oregon Coastal range (4000+ feet, the focus wheel was not tight, BTW, Barry) looking at the coast 30 miles to the west and the volcanic Mts (Mt. Hood, Mt. St Helens, Adams, Jefferson, Three Sisters, Bachelor...to dusty to see Rainier) of the Cascade range to the east...with the entire Willamette valley in between. It was a blast!
I am happy with my 10x50 Action Extremes.
--------------------
Tom 
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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lighttrap
Reged: 02/06/04
Posts: 3833
Loc: cloudy, foggy, humid NC, US
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Quote:
[I would've bought those [Nikon AE 12x50s] awhile ago, except they're listed as having only 6mm of eye relief.]
Ed, for some reason you assumed I was talking about the Nikon AE 12x50s, and you mistakenly inserted that into what I said. I was refering to the Fujinon 10x42 BFLs that were discussed in the section I quoted. I don't need the Nikon AE 12x50s, since I already have the Nikon 12x50 SEs. (Actually, I don't "need" the Fujinon 10x42 BFLs, but we don't need to go on about whether I "need" more binos like I "need" more allergies. )
--------------------
18" Starsplitter II f/4.5
8" Hardin Dob f/6
C5 workhorse mini SCT f/10 or f/6.3
70mm TV Ranger dual purpose birding/astro
77mm Leica Televid APO
16x70 Fujinons on UA Deluxe Mt.
12x50 Nikon SE
8x30 Nikon E2s
and many others
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